[Scortch]

Dude, no one gives a .... about the ancestry of itunes. Just your way of trying to divert attention away from what a lot of people, including the author of the article, has to deal with. We are talking about the current state of affairs of the bloated junk they call itunes.
That's because you think apple does no wrong, that steve jobs is God.

Maybe you should reread the article that started all this discussion.

People have a choice but, they still went after Microsoft for no good reason. If they are going to do it to Microsoft, then they should do it to Apple.

Oh, and the Zune software isn't much better. All those people out there that have prebuilt systems that have the older version of Windows XP Media Center Edition are out of luck running it, unless they want to spend money upgrading their OS.

[johnhope]

The huge difference between Apple And M$ is that M$ has based it's growth on good marketing methods of horrible products, instead Apple has based it's growth on almost NO marketing of the greatest products ever.
People are finally understanding the difference.
And the strenght of iPod is not the design (despite it's the nicest gadget out there) but it's iTunes.
The Strenght of the iPhone is the paradigm shift that makes this gear an universal gadget. Once in 2008 it's SDK will be out, you will find applications like TV remote controls, videogames, and infinite other applications for it, just because it's look is virtual. And it's MULTI touch, not simply touch screen.
Macs have OSX which is the best version of the best OS (Free BSD).
Apple is all about quality.

[RastaMon]

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Dude, no one gives a .... about the ancestry of itunes. Just your way of trying to divert attention away from what a lot of people, including the author of the article, has to deal with. We are talking about the current state of affairs of the bloated junk they call itunes.

I just wanted to see if, when you said, "Surely you are not saying iTunes is an improved user experience. They just slapped that thing to gether and tossed it out there," you were speaking from a position of knowledge, or just spreading FUD based on your hatred of all things Apple. Apparently it was the latter, because if it were the former, you would have obviously been able to name the two apps I referred to.

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That's because you think apple does no wrong, that steve jobs is God.

You obviously have not been reading all of my Apple related posts.

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People have a choice but, they still went after Microsoft for no good reason. If they are going to do it to Microsoft, then they should do it to Apple.

There were very good reasons to go after Microsoft. Microsoft had a monopoly in the operating system market (which in and of itself is not illegal), and using that monopoly to discourage competition in a different (internet browser) market (which is illegal), by bundling IE with Windows, and not giving consumers the option to delete IE. How does Apple do this? How does Apple use a monopoly in one market to discourage competition in a different market?

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Zune software isn't much better. All those people out there that have prebuilt systems that have the older version of Windows XP Media Center Edition are out of luck running it, unless they want to spend money upgrading their OS.

Yet another example of how MS does not release products with the consumers' interests in mind.It reminds me of the Plays For Sure standard that MS abandoned once their future competitor MP3 player manufacturers had committed to it. Or, how once the developers of software applications that would compete with Office had committed their R&D funding and resources to OS2, Microsoft jumped ship from the OS2 project and released Windows, instead, which of course soon had Office applications available without any real competition.

It's all just SOP for Microsoft. But you can go right on with your hatred of all things Apple if you want to, despite the fact that they don't shaft their customers like MS does.

[RastaMon]

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I haven't been able to run any version of it on numerous computers without it sucking up a lot of resources.

iTunes uses more resources than a player such as VLC, but you have to bear in mind that iTunes is a database management system, and not just a media player. As such, it can be expected to use more resources than player only apps.

[Scortch]

Learn to use FUD properly. Discussing a program being junk has nothing to do with FUD. LOL The way you are using it, you might as well label those lame Mac commercials as FUD.

The history of itunes has ZERO to do with the current state of the program and that is junk. You have no clue if you think I have a hatred of all things apple. I just don't put them on a pedestal and worship them like you do.

There is no reason to go after Microsoft. People have a choice of OS X and MANY flavors of Linux, etc. So what if they bundle IE with the OS? So does Apple with Safari. You can use Firefox, Opera or whatever it is you want to use with Windows. Nothing is stopping them. They do have a choice. So what if you can't uninstall IE? Who cares? It's not like having it installed stops you from using any other browser that works with Windows.

Yep, you think they do no worng if you don't believe they use monopolistic practices.

Lol, Apple don't shaft their customers? Ok, whatever bud. I guess you missed the last weeks worth of discussion. They shaft their customers plenty. We have discussed many ways. Nice selective memory there.

[Scortch]

If Apple is so much better, why do they do nothing but run attack ads? Why don't they come out with commercials that show why they are better? You know, like showing the OS in action and what all you can do with the mac and so on?

I mean it's like people running for office running nothing but attack ads to say why you shouldn't vote for so and so, instead of running commercials about how much better they are.

Instead of doing nothing but attacking the competition, prove why you are better.

[RastaMon]

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Learn to use FUD properly. Discussing a program being junk has nothing to do with FUD

I choose not to use FUD at all. I'm willing to back up my claims with facts. What facts have you offered about iTunes? You claimed that Apple "just slapped that thing to gether and tossed it out there," without having any insight into how iTunes came to be. Nor have you offered any reasons why it is a poor quality application. But since it is an Apple product, you attack it. That's FUD.

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I just don't put them on a pedestal and worship them

Nor do I. However, in comparison to Microsoft, they offer superior products, and have superior business practices, at least from the perspective of their customers. I don't hear Microsoft's shareholders complaining, but I hear a LOT of complaining from Microsoft's customers.

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So what if they bundle IE with the OS? So does Apple with Safari.

Apple doesn't hold a monopoly with OS X, and Apple users can delete Safari. It is not a relevant comparison. Windows users do not have the ability to delete (without hacking) Internet Explorer. Microsoft hijacks the hard drive space. It's never been just that MS bundled IE with Windows. MS uses anti-competitive strategies in many ways. Bundling IE was just the one that the DOJ singled out to challenge. They had many to choose from.

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Yep, you think they do no worng if you don't believe they use monopolistic practices.

Please, enlighten us. What monopolistic practices is Apple guilty of?

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Lol, Apple don't shaft their customers? Ok, whatever bud. I guess you missed the last weeks worth of discussion

I didn't miss anything. I read a bunch of your unsubstantiated claims, but the only one that had any merit pertained to Apple memory prices. Apple doesn't force their customers to upgrade their memory through Apple, so that can hardly be equated to shafting their customers.

You have no clue if you think I have a hatred of all things apple.

Then I'm sure you won't mind linking to a few posts where you have had positive things to say about Apple, will you?

[johnhope]

Apple must attack Windows in order to destroy 20 years of a terrible culture created by M$:

"computers are full of flaws, don't trust them, reformat them every 6 months, you need an IT in order to make them running, don't try this, don't try that, avoid everything, everything you click could damage it, everything you click could let a virus in.."

This is the crap culture that is installed in 80% of the humans.
M$ did a crime. 80% of the people still think that the technology isn't able to do it better.
They think we have to wait for some decades.
This is where M$ has invested billions: in putting crap in the people's heads.

And Apple has a real hard work to wipe all that crap out of your head.

[Scortch]

You people crack me up :)

You really don't think ipod/itunes isn't monopolistic? The EU has a different opinion on that.

Shaft = memory prices. Shaft = ipod and iphone batteries and replacement cost and loss of use, instead of just making the products with off the shelf replaceable batteries.. Shaft = prices of equipment period.

Apple is no different than what people claim Microsoft is. They do whatever they can to try and make people believe they are better, even to the point of lying in commercials.

[feverhost]

Nearly all large companies, become evil. When its about the bottom dollar, more than anything else.. you've stepped to the darkside. And both Apple and Microsoft have been doing this for many years.

Microsoft and Apple really aren't that different. They still want your money.. any way they can get it.

[RastaMon]

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Shaft = memory prices.

Apple doesn't force anyone to upgrade their RAM through Apple.

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Shaft = ipod and iphone batteries and replacement cost and loss of use

The small size and design dictates much of that. However, in the case of iPods, third party batteries are inexpensive, and can be easily replaced by the user. If it is sent to Apple, it is replaced with a new or refurbished model. The iPhone will likely have similar third party battery options. (I've never replaced any of the batteries for my mobile phones, and would not consider it an issue at all.)

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Shaft = prices of equipment period.

The price of Macs compare favorably to equivalent offerings of Apple's competition. The iPod's pricing is certainly not unreasonable, and the market obviously agrees.

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Apple is no different than what people claim Microsoft is. They do whatever they can to try and make people believe they are better, even to the point of lying in commercials.

In what way is Apple no different from Microsoft? Exactly what lies have they told in their commercials. (I'm generally not a fan of Apple's Mac commercials, but I haven't noticed any lying.) I'm sure you'll supply examples. Or, is this just more of your anti-Apple FUD?

[johnhope]

Scorth, You can put anything into ain iPod, music, files, applications, use it as an hard disk, and statistically only 3% of iPod the content comes from iTunes. And you call the iPod a monopoly????

And are you really believing that Apple and M$ aren't different?
Did you ever use extensively Apple products and M$ products? You didn't notice a HUGE difference in user respect and software quality?

European are all masons and they try to stop Apple from killing their crap industry.

[Scortch]

No one forces people to buy Microsoft products either. No one forces people to use IE either. You can put any browser on Windows.
Come on, the only truthful Apple FUD commercials are the Vista ones.

[RastaMon]

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Microsoft and Apple really aren't that different. They still want your money.. any way they can get it.

I believe the methodologies that they use to get that money are hugely different. Apple tries to deliver superior products with superior user experiences, a strategy at which they've largely been successful with.

Microsoft relies on incompatibilities, and customer confusion, as will as anti-competitive market practices.

Microsoft is much better at playing the corporate game. Apple is better at producing superior products. Which one is better depends on whether you ask customers or stockholders.

[Scortch]

johnhope
Yes, I have used OS X and I have used Windows. Other than Vista and ME, I have really liked Windows and I like OS X too. I just won't personally use an OS that locks you into set hardware. OS X hasn't been without it's issues either.

Rasta, it's your opinion that apple has superior products. If apple was all that superior, they would be a much larger force than they are. Not many people share in your opinion. Not everyone shares in mine either.

We can go back and forth forever. It's clear you believe apple is all that and I believe they are no better than any one else out there. We are just going ot have to agree to disagree.

[RastaMon]

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No one forces people to use IE either.

No, but Windows users are forced to keep IE on their hard drives.

[johnhope]

Scortch
Most windows users are deeply convinced that Apple is crap. But they NEVER EVER used an Apple product.
This is the result of 20 years of lies coming from windows box resellers and 20 years lack of Apple advertising campaigns.
The Apple user base was for most time a professional user base. Almost all typograhies, music studios, graphic studios used Macs just because windows wasn't up to the job.
Now, the iPod halo effect is opening the people's brain. Now they are ready to check other Apple products and they are discovering that they have lost too much time with Windows.
In fact Apple is growing at a way higher rate than the windows competitors.

[Scortch]

OMG, IE takes up a few meg. The world is coming to an end. Help us, we are running out of HD space.
roflmao

Yep and apple has been around for almost 30 years and has yet to get past the niche market. They have had plenty of time. People made their choice.

[RastaMon]

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I just won't personally use an OS that locks you into set hardware.

OS X locks you into hardware in the same way that the Wii OS locks you into the Nintendo Wii. That's the only way it comes. It can't be purchased any other way. Only upgrades (and server) can be purchased separately.

[Scortch]

Wii is a console, totally different ballgame. That's comparing apples to oranges.