[dabigkahuna]

I have a Dell Inspiron 5100 laptop and have been thinking that when I get a new computer, I may want to convert this one to Linux.

Some preliminary research was confusing. Seems a lot more problems putting Linux on a laptop than a desktop for one thing, but most of the stuff I found specifically for the 5100 was several years old so maybe this isn't a problem now?

I also was confused by a lot of the references they made for making things work at least better, but I guess those things can be looked into later when I actually want to make the change.

Anyway, can anyone tell me if Linux will work fine on the 5100 without loss of capabilities? If so, do distributions handle this mostly automatically now or will I be faced with a lot of work trying to get various internal hardware to work (ethernet connection for internet access, USB ports, internal modem, sound card, graphics capability, touchpad, etc)?

And what about things I have attached? These things are mainly a Brother HL-1440 laser printer and a Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse.

Thanks.

[mphenterprises]

Hi Dabigkahuna. I may have a resolution for you, at least for a trial run. One of our forum members introduced me to an application known as VMware. Basically, with this application, you can install Linux within Windows XP without actually installing it on your computer. It's called Virtual Machine.

The link I provided to you will allow you to download and evaluate Linux from within VMware. Then, if you are happy with what you see and experience while experimenting with Linux, you can do a complete install. Once you install VMware, you will be able to configure everything from internet connectivity to touchpad access. Here is a .pdf that will provide you with step by step instructions on how to configure any Guest Operating System from within Windows.

Now, I cannot guarantee that this will be the best way for you to evaluate how Linux will work on your laptop but it is a start.

[dabigkahuna]

Thanks. That's one approach though I was thinking more along the lines of getting XP completely off my system when the time comes to buy a new computer. But I'll look into this option too.

[mphenterprises]

Well, short of contacting Dell directly and asking them, I am not sure. I would presume that all of the functionality of a laptop would still be available in Linux as it is in Windows XP. It's just a matter of getting the right drivers and configurations.

For example, I have a Sprint USB Mobile Broadband internet connection. I was concerned if I would be able to access the internet when using Linux. That same person who told me about VMware provided me with documentation on how to configure my internet connection to access Linux. Thanks Smax. :-)

Anyway, you may have to do some investigating but I do not see any reason why Linux would not work within your laptop. Give Dell a call and ask them. Here is a link to get you started.

[smax013]

mphenterprises said:

Well, short of contacting Dell directly and asking them, I am not sure. I would presume that all of the functionality of a laptop would still be available in Linux as it is in Windows XP. It's just a matter of getting the right drivers and configurations.

For example, I have a Sprint USB Mobile Broadband internet connection. I was concerned if I would be able to access the internet when using Linux. That same person who told me about VMware provided me with documentation on how to configure my internet connection to access Linux. Thanks Smax. :-)

Anyway, you may have to do some investigating but I do not see any reason why Linux would not work within your laptop. Give Dell a call and ask them. Here is a link to get you started.

As [MPH Enterprises|~44270] pointed out, it is all a matter of drivers. If you can locate the appropriate drivers, then you will be fine. Being as I don't yet play with Linux, I cannot comment on whether or not you will be able to find drivers for all your hardware (especially things like printers and scanners, etc) or whether you will find drivers that give you the same functionality for all the hardware that you currently have in Windoze XP. You should have no problem getting basic functionality of many things. For example, I am guessing that you will be able to find a driver that will allow you to move the cursor with the touchpad and click/select things with the touchpad buttons. What I don't know is if you will be able to get a driver that will allow you to double-click something by double tapping the touchpad or scroll in a window by sliding your finger along the edge of the touchpad or select an item by tapping the touchpad...all features that are commonly available with touchpads in Windoze. You should be able to find a driver that will make your network port work and your external monitor port wort, etc. The internal modem might be tougher.



If you go the virtual machine router that [MPH Enterprises|~44270] mentioned (and I cannot take direct credit for pointing him to VMWare...I had pointed him to Parallels, which is a competitor to VMWare and is what I use to run Windoze XP Pro on my MacBook Pro...but rather to the general concept, although I might have mentioned VMWare as another option...and to [MPH Enterprises|~44270]: you are welcome for that and the point out to Sprint's setup instructions), then it is still basically the same issue. The one potential difference is that you may not need full drivers for everything. The virtual machine software can do some "translating" of stuff. As an example, I have fully touchpad functionality in Windoze XP Pro on my MacBook Pro when I run it in Parallels. I get the same double-clicking by double-tapping the touchpad without needing to use the touchpad button and other such touchpad "shortcuts". I don't get such things when I am running Windoze XP Pro in Boot Camp, which is running Windoze natively (i.e. very similar to what you want to do with Linux, except I am setup as dual boot rather than only booting in the alternative OS). In order to double-click in Boot Camp, I must use the touchpad button. This is because I must have a specific touchpad driver and Apple did not include that same functionality in the touchpad driver that they provide with Boot Camp.



As a slight side note to you, but more to [MPH Enterprises|~44270], depending on what your virtual machine is setup to do, you might not even really need drivers per se for somethings. Parallels, for example, will allow you to share the host OS' network adapter. In this setup, it is kind of like Internet Connection Sharing within one computer. Rather than the guest OS getting its own IP address and such, it makes use of the host OS' Internet connection and IP address. This is sometimes useful if you are staying in a hotel or something where you must pay seperately for each computer you connect to the wireless network. In such situations, the hotel's wireless network typically would see your host OS and your guest OS as two seperate computers and you would have to pay for the Internet connection twice. If you enable the network sharing option, then the guest OS just used the host OS' connection and you only pay once.

[dabigkahuna]

As it happens, when I buy a new computer, I'm looking seriously at a Mac. Not sure what yet. A laptop is a big attraction for convenience, but I really only use the portability once a year when I travel from Hawaii to visit family on the mainland. The rest of the time it is used as a desktop so maybe getting a laptop is silly considering the price premium. But I might get the laptop anyway!

I do plan to run both os systems on it (probably xp since vista is so messed up). And I'll want to run MS Office - I know there is a mac version, but why buy another? Besides, I still have need to run Access which isn't available in the Mac version. Eventually I guess I'll look seriously at Filemaker Pro, though I don't know if its programming abilities will let me replicate some of the stuff I have in Access which get pretty complicated.

I don't expect to do any of this until at least the end of the year though.

[ryan484lav]

Linux Should Work Fine Since There Are So Many Linux Distributions Out there has to be a couple at least that supports your hardware. If you are looking into Linux I would recommend Ubuntu Linux www.ubuntu.com It also has wireless networking support. I have used a number of wireless Mouse with Ubuntu and they seem to work fine. The Brother Printer Is Another Story Thought Ubuntu come preloaded with some printer drivers for a lot of different printers. I know that brother is one of them so I would think it should be a driver for it there already. If not I think you could probably use a genric Driver wich it comes with as well.

[Evildave]

A couple of quick web searches yields the answer. Make note of that. A couple of quick web searches yields MOST answers for Linux, or Windoze for that matter. If it worked on 7.04, it's safe to bet it will work on 8.10.
http://www.linux-on-...s.com/dell.html

The only 'driver variables' for the Dell Inspiron 5100 are Wireless network, and that depends on what wireless card you have. It may work instantly, or it MIGHT require installing ndiswrapper (from Add/Remove programs) and pointing it at the Windoze wireless driver (five minutes of no-brainer work, tops do a web search for: (your brand of wireless) and UBUNTU and you WILL find instructions). Worst case, you invest $20 in another wireless adapter that DOES work. Just plug any prospective ones you might buy into a web search with 'Ubuntu' and see if there is support.
http://www.google.co...UTF-8&scoring=p

You don't need to contact Dell. You don't need to do ANYTHING but download the Ubuntu Live CD ISO, burn it onto a CD, boot it and see if you like what you see (it doesn't have to install ANYTHING to show you a live boot of Linux). If you do install, It can resize partitions to make room for its self automatically. After you install, let it download all the updates before tinkering with anything. Then go to 'Applications->Add/Remove...' and install all the free stuff you like without any 'dabbling in scripts'.

And if you're going to run a virtual machine, I recommend VirtualBox. It's FREE for Windoze or Linux.

[dabigkahuna]

Wow, I had forgotten about this discussion since I've been so busy with learning about my new Mac.

I've been thinking about how to best handle my old computer though. I managed to finally get a restore disk that had the latest XP updates. Tried reinstalling (well, repairing) in hopes it would show some speed improvement. That didn't do it. Haven't gotten around to the ideal situaiton - erase the C partition and install from scratch - to see the effect that has.

Linux is still a possibility, but the drive only has 30 GB. In any case, it will be a stripped down system with much less software than before. Essentially, I need it only for a possible emergency backup I may never use.

So, I'll install Office 2000 on it again (on the Mac, I'm busy converting everything to iWorks - but no DB to replace Access yet). I'll install a browser (Firefox) and mail program (Thunderbird) again. Right off hand, that may be about it.

What is your opinion of squeezing in Linux too?

I did do a LOT of research on the net about Linux and my computer. Along the way I kept finding people talk about the things they had trouble with - including getting the built-in screen to work! I don't care if the modem works or, according to your link, TV-out. The networking problem with pcmia cards could be a small negative. Right now I don't have that, but since I expect to get Time Capsule for my Mac, it might be nice to be able to network the PC too - just not a big deal.

As soon as I get a chance to reinstall Windows XP from scratch, I'll try out the Ubuntu CD. Thanks.

Side question: I know linux has lots of free software so I was wondering if it had anything like Doom, Quake, Castle Wolfenstein?

[Evildave]

An 8GB Linux partition would leave it swimming in free space, and that's with a TON of applications installed. VirtualBox, OpenOffice, etc. all running and happy. 6GB of Linux + 2GB of 'swap' would work fine.

You can still mount a Windoze partition for more space and access to 'common' files like MP3s, work, etc.

I recommend you split the Windoze partitions, anyway.

Set aside 8GB for Linux and its swap partition.

Set aside about 12GB for Windoze.

Set aside the rest (about 10 GB) for data.

Get a GPARTED/CloneZilla Live CD and learn to use it.

When you finish installing Windoze, right click on 'My Documents' and MOVE IT to your third (data) partition.

When you finish getting everything set up just the way you like, BACK THE WINDOZE PARTITION UP. This way, you can spank Windoze with its backup image whenever it starts misbehaving.

Do the backup on the Linux partition when you're done (though you might want to make 'home' a different partition).

Don't neglect your data backups, too. That can be done with xcopy, robocopy or rsync, according to which OS you like best (rsync is WAY better).

http://forums.pcworl...m/docs/DOC-1671

You could also just use 'Wubi' and have a file in the Windoze partition recursively mounted by Linux. That works fine, and if you don't like it, you can 'uninstall' it with the Windoze Add/Remove, and if you do like it, you can save/restore ONE partition instead of two. You can always trivially resize any of the partitions with gparted.

[dabigkahuna]

What is the 2GB of "swap" out of the 8 your recommend for Linux? Do I actually create two partitions for Linux then or is that handled automatically?

Curious also about the comment about XP for MP3s. Doesn't Linux play those?

Would you use the data section for data for both Linux AND XP. Or should I set the windows partition to include windows data for its programs?
GPARTED/CloneZilla live CD??? I've heard of CDs you can boot Linux from. Is that the same thing? I downloaded an Ubuntu ISO last night. Won't have a chance to try to get it on a CD until I get home from work though. Is that the same thing?
Backing up the Windows partition - you mean ghost it? I think that may be the best choice, but don't know if it is worth buying a program for what will just be a backup computer.
'Home' is a different partition? What is "home"?

Wubi? Recursively mounted? As you can see, I've not ever dealt with such things or terms. I will check out the link after work and see if some is covered there.

Thanks.

[Evildave]

dabigkahuna said:

What is the 2GB of "swap" out of the 8 your recommend for Linux? Do I actually create two partitions for Linux then or is that handled automatically?

Windoze has a swap FILE, and Linux has a swap partition. It gets made as part of setup.

Quote

Curious also about the comment about XP for MP3s. Doesn't Linux play those?

Yes, it does. Dozens of different ways.

Quote

Would you use the data section for data for both Linux AND XP. Or should I set the windows partition to include windows data for its programs?

Yes, I'd use it for both. It can be done up 'NTFS' and Linux will mount it. That way it's easy to share, and you don't have to even touch the Windoze partition while Linux is running. You can mount that, too. You just don't have to.

Quote

GPARTED/CloneZilla live CD??? I've heard of CDs you can boot Linux from. Is that the same thing? I downloaded an Ubuntu ISO last night. Won't have a chance to try to get it on a CD until I get home from work though. Is that the same thing?

It's the same as 'Partition Magic' used to be AND Norton Ghost. It's basically the same sort of 'Live' thing, but smaller and specialized around doing the disk stuff. Ubuntu comes with gparted on the boot cd, as well. (System->Administration->Partition Editor)
http://gpartedclonz.tuxfamily.org/

Quote

Backing up the Windows partition - you mean ghost it? I think that may be the best choice, but don't know if it is worth buying a program for what will just be a backup computer.

I mean use Clonezilla.

'Home' is a different partition? What is "home"?
Home is where the heart is. No, actually it's where you user folder(s) go. So if you have a 'dabigkahuna' account you'd have a 'dabigkahuna' folder there (sort of like 'Documents & Settings' for Windoze, only simpler).

Wubi? Recursively mounted? As you can see, I've not ever dealt with such things or terms. I will check out the link after work and see if some is covered there.

http://wubi-installer.org/
Wubi is just another way to run Ubuntu. Instead of partitioning the drive, it makes a big file on your windows drive and pretends that's a partition and boots into it. If you want it gone, you can use 'Add/Remove' to clean it all up.

Thanks.
>

[dabigkahuna]

I think I'll need to get hands on with the basics first - running from a CD. Hope to have that created later tonight. Then, once I get around to putting windows in from scratch, decide how to best handle having Linux on there too.

Then, I hope, a lot of this stuff will be less confusing. I sorta get the basic points though - the details can be the problem when I'm unfamiliar with Linux.

This has been quite helpful though.

How about running the live CD on a mac? Will it run if I just reboot with the CD in there or do I need to change from setting so it will first look for a CD to boot from like I'll need to do with the PC?

[dabigkahuna]

Okay, the Ubuntu disk works! Didn't do much with it yet, but it looks very interesting.

Does it matter, when I get around to installing it, how the drive is formatted? I'm not sure, but I think I have the C drive set up as a FAT (or FAT32, whatever) partition. I have Partition Magic on the machine now so I can format it and set partitions however would be best before I even begin to set up Linux on it.

I was also wondering if, since I want to complete erase (zero out the C drive) before reinstalling Windows, if I can do that from the Ubuntu CD?

[Evildave]

On a Mac? I dunno. I don't have a Mac. Apparently rebooting a Mac while holding the 'C' key will boot off a CD.

If you're installing XP, you really should use NTFS. FAT32 has some nasty file size limitations. Partition Magic has the tool to convert.

Ubuntu will format its own partition (EXT3) when you install it. Just leave some unformatted space so it won't have to spend hours 'resizing' a partition. You'll probably want to do the 'custom' partition when it prompts for that, so you can specify the empty space.

Ubuntu has GParted, but it's basically like Partition Magic. You can delete it and format it to whatever style.

You'll need to make an 'logical' partition. Maximum allowed are 3 primary (for whatever reason), so you need to make an extended partition since you'll have Windoze, Linux, Swap and your Data partition.

You don't need to securely zero out the drive, and that takes a long, long time, but if you're really determined to securely wipe it ALL out, then use 'shred' from the shell in Ubuntu. The command will wipe the partition table, the partitions, EVERYTHING. It will be like a new, completely unformatted disk.

http://www.cyberciti...rase-hard-disk/

I shouldn't have to tell you that you should back things up before you play with 'shred', because there won't be anything left to recover. The only difference with the instructions on that site is that your Ubuntu live CD has 'shred', so you don't need to grab Knoppix.



So, anyway, Primary (Windoze) NTFS partition named 'BOOT', then create a logical NTFS partition named 'DATA' and leave some unallocated space in the extended partition to install Ubuntu to. You might have to resize the 'Extended' partition to take up the rest of the drive.

[dabigkahuna]

Yep, you were correct - the "C" key made it boot to the Ubuntu disk.

I'll convert the C drive on the PC if it is FAT.

> Ubuntu will format its own partition (EXT3) when you install it. Just
leave some unformatted space so it won't have to spend hours 'resizing'
a partition. <

Hours to resize? Wow, Partition Magic is certainly much faster.

I want to zero out the C partition (about 12 GB, I think) - the rest I'm not concerned about. I want to be sure it is a completely fresh start on the OS. I've heard people who had problems when they didn't - as if the new installation still found the old stuff and used some of it. Time isn't an issue because I'll only be using my mac.

Will Shred not let you just wipe out a single partition? I'll check out the link. Backing up isn't an issue. I moved everything to my Mac already and also to a thumb drive for critical stuff.

> You'll need to make an 'logical' partition. Maximum allowed are 3
primary (for whatever reason), so you need to make an extended
partition since you'll have Windoze, Linux, Swap and your Data
partition. <

> So, anyway, Primary (Windoze) NTFS partition named 'BOOT', then create
a logical NTFS partition named 'DATA' and leave some unallocated space
in the extended partition to install Ubuntu to. You might have to
resize the 'Extended' partition to take up the rest of the drive. <

Been a long time since I've messed with this, but as I recall, I had the C partition, then a "extended" partition for all the
remaining space and then the D, E were
created out of that extended partition.

I gather I still follow that basic approach (extended partition takes up ALL remaining space, but the D partition is set to leave about 8 GB for Linux stuff)? Make any difference where I leave the empty space (at the end or in between C and D)?

I definitely need to actually install this because it is rather difficult to evaluate something when it is so slow running from a CD!

I'm going to check out options for running it on the Mac too - especially where I can run both Mac and Linux without having to specifically reboot to one or the other.

[Evildave]

Nah, gparted & partition magic are about the same speed. I usually manage bigger drives, is all. It takes 'forever' with either tool to resize/move a partition.

You don't need to 'zero out' a drive to 'start fresh'. Just format or reformat it. As far as the OS is concerned, it will be fresh & clean. If you're just formatting it fresh, anyway, then format it NTFS in the first place, and don't select the 'quick format' checkbox to cause it to overwrite all the data while 'testing'. You only need to 'wipe' a drive for security purposes.

You're better off with the shared partition in the middle. Seek time will be somewhat reduced for either OS to access it. So leave the empty space at the end.

[dabigkahuna]

I know that deleting a file doesn't actually get rid of it - just the pointers to it. Don't know about formatting. It would seem that formatting and reinstalling should work fine, but I know I've read about people who still had problems unless they actually got rid of the old files by zeroing them out. Makes no sense to me, but since this will be the first time for starting over since I got the computer about 2003, might as well play it safe.

Does formatting (not quick format) cause it to overwrite and CHANGE the data? Or does it change a section, test it, and then write the original info back into the block?

Might be overkill, but that system has gotten so frustrating towards the end that I'd rather be sure.

[Evildave]

Formatting (not quick) will definitely overwrite all the data.

If you start it, and it finishes without a very, very long wait, it did a quick format. The 'Partition Magic' boot CD appears to do only quick formats. GParted will do only quick formats.

The Windoze setup disk will do a full format.

Gotta love virtual machines. I was able to verify all of this with Linux, Partition Magic and Windows ISO files.

Be sure to hunt down VirtualBox. It's in the Applications->Add/Remove menu in Ubuntu, but there's a Windoze version of it, too. Lots of harmless experimentation.

[dabigkahuna]

Hmm, if only windows setup disk (is that the same as the "restore" disk?) will do a complete format, I guess that would work since I think you can boot to it. Might try to find that tomorrow and, if it works, go ahead and do that and reinstall windows, then install Ubuntu.

Oh, and adjust the partitions first as long as I have Partition Magic on the machine!

I'll check out virtualbox.

Thanks again.