[SusanC]

My husband and me bought two new HP TouchSmart PC's because our Dell PC's crashed on the same day. Those were good PC's though and we think a hacker got into my husband's unsecured laptop. Anyhow, of course we have Windows Vista with these new computers. We bought them in mid-April of this year and mine has crashed 3 times and I lost everything. Best Buy - The Geek Squad - finally figured it out that my hard drive was damaged somehow, right out of the box. They installed a new hard drive for me and so far everything is working fine. I know now though that Vista has a mind of it's own because a program will pop up even though I didn't go to it. We had XP on our Dell PC's and at times I wish we still had that. It does take some time to get used to Vista because it's so different than XP. We sure wish that Bill Gates would test the new Windows himself for at least one month before pushing them out to the public!!!

[coastie65]

It's simple, NOTHING WORKS WITH VISTA!! I just read the other day that Microsoft has reversed course and will continue selling XP after Jan. '08. It is incumbent upon the computer manufactorers to offer a choice of OS. I have an HP C5180 printer, scanner, copier that will not work with Vista. If I need a new computer, I guess I'll be surfing the refurb sites for one with XP, preferably, MCE as that best suits my needs. I can imagine it must be like watching a train wreck happen for the folks at Microsoft. I realize that it is Microsoft's core business to produce OSes, but enough is enough, and to have it rammed down our throat with a new computer purchase is wrong. We should have a choice at purchase, not what is being dictated to the manufactorers by Microsoft. coastie65

[SusanC]

I also read PC World's issue about XP staying on the market and new computers will have that unless they request for Vista. Also heard a new update with Vista will come out soon. I too have an HP Officejet All-In-One printer, scanner, fax, copier, etc and it DOES work with Vista. The only button that will not work with Vista is the Scan button and I just have to go to Windows Photo Gallery to scan something. That's fine with me. I don't understand why MS demanded that Vista be on all new computers - - you're right about having it rammed down our throats!!! We should have had a choice of OS.

[rgreen4]

Coastie - Hp has had Vista drivers our for your scanner since March and an update in September. Try this HP Link.

As for incompatable programs, Microsoft has published for more than a decade the recommend handing of video, memory access for system. Programmer ignored it because it was a little faster to go straight to the memory and video registers. Now, however, that MS has finally closed the back door in the name of security because the kernel has the control, those ill written programs won't run. However, programs that were written to the standards do run. I have some fourteen year old programs that one would not expect to run, but do because they were properly written. If the program doesn't run, don't blame Microsoft and Vista, blame the writers of the programs.

Kind of like the guy who go stopped for speeding - when stopped he blamed the cop - said he'd been speeding for years, and now they stop me. Duh!

One thing that will help most of the systems is to get rid of McAfee and Symantec and go to individual layered programs. If you are not careful, Symantec and McAfee will take over your system, and you can't use the Windows Add/Remove to remove Symantec programs, you have to download their tool.

[richardmitnick]

Au contraire-

But you give me the opportunity to speak. For one, I was stuck with Norton ani-virus, which I would not choose. Also, I use Total Recorder 6.1 mp3 recording software which will not run on Vista.

None of these incompatibility problems are the fault of Microsoft. All of the third party vendors mhad five years to get ready for Vista. None of them have any excuse for being late.

Regarding periferals, my HP 5150 and 5650 Deskjets which I have had since I believe WinME, installed fine with all bells and whistles from the original CD's. My Epson 3670 scanner at first would only run on the generic Microsoft provided driver. But within about a month of my computer purchase, Epson updated the driver.

Firefox, SeaMonkey and Netscape 9 run fine. Winamp and RealPlayer 11 run fine. All of these folks did their jobs. Ad-Aware just came on board last week. Adobe Reader works, Roboform works, BOINC and WCG for crunching ( you are all crunching, right?) all run with no problems. Even my old Judy's Tenkey calculator program runs fine. What's left? Picasa and Google Earth, Google Desktop Search.

I am a happy camper.

>>RSM

[coastie65]

Hey rgreen, I got to thinking after reading your response. I have an auto update set with HP and there has been some activity. I don't remember if they say what it is for. It may be that I have been updated. As for the security stuff, I dumped Symatec. I had to use their removal tool in order to completely get rid of it. I am using AVG for Virus, and webroot for anti hijacking, keylogging, spyware, adware, that sort of thing as well as adaware for a backup. according to the vista advisor I was good to go. The only app that I had installed that wouldn't work was a game " Dungeon Siege". Course that thing didn't work so hot with XP either. I kept getting a message about graphics driver updates. I strongly suspect it was with DirectX. At the time this game came out, it was DirectX 6.0. I think that 9.0c was a bit much for it. Anyway, I intend to stay with XP MCE for as long as I can. coastie65

[renata77]

My machine just isn't capable of Vista, which is a resource as well as a hardware hog - and that is just for the regular Home edition, which appears to be no big deal.
In addition, many online friends report severe compatibility issues with our favorite programs (Paint Shop Pro) and it just is not worth it to me.
My next machine will probably have XP - I'm comfortable with it and don't need any new hassles. When Win95 came out, I was in line at midnight! When XP came out, I bought it ASAP. I had to do an upgrade to my computer for XP, but to have to buy a completely new machine to accommodate the upgrade to VIsta is just too much.
Message was edited by: renata77

[kjsacramento1]

I had a replacement XP computer that had hardware problems that was sent back 3 times before it was replaced with a working computer. I am happy with my replacement HARDWARE. It functions beautifully as it should. It is only the VISTA operating system that is causing me grief now and the differences are clear. There have been multiple incompatabilities. I troubleshoot them each independently and am skilled at it, but it takes time. Even when I resolve issues and get it working, I find that some automatic update to my operating system resets everything or changes the functionality, the prior fix doesn't work the second time, and I end up back to square one. Example is my pro scanner - I downloaded the manufacturers software to supposed Vista-capable on a clean new Vista machine and totally reset the scanner. Didn't work. Spent weeks troubleshooting it with GOOD geek advice on the internet. Got it fully working. Made no changes that would have interfered. Couple of updates later it didn't work. Fixed that. Couple updates later I can't get it to duplex anymore. I can't spend 100% of my time fixing things caused by updates or incompatabilities. I've never had any problems with the Microsoft Office - imagine that, how could THAT be. A Microsoft product works with Microsoft Vista. I know every new operating system goes through its period of settling in, but I wasn't given the choice and it has cost me the time I needed to market my online business. I think Microsoft should have to convert every department they have and use the system with a great variety of software for no less than six months before they unleash the monster. I bet Microsoft offices are still using XP. There's still too many issues to uncover. I didn't get the option. I have no doubt I will love Vista down the line when it is more fully integrated - there are things I love about it - but NOT NOW.

[kjsacramento1]

The guy who thinks HP has had the scanner drivers out for Vista is right, EXCEPT that the drivers DON'T WORK. See my other thread - I've gotten the scanner working repeatedly thanks to the some intelligent geeks out there, but it never stays fixed thanks to updates. To say that Microsoft was prepared is just ignorance. It also assumes that all the software and hardware companies provide FREE updates to make EVERYTHING perfectly compatible with Vista. It is IMPOSSIBLE to be prepared for all the possible incompatablities. That is why every new OS has resulted in a long breaking in period. I think what everyone wishes is that Microsoft would do the breaking in instead of us having to do it.

[AZComicGeek]

Ignorance is the main reason Vista resistance is so strong. All of the anti-vista comments are by people who have 1) never used vista and only read anti-articles about it, 2) are trying to push Linux / Unix / OSX or any other OS, 3) still stuck in with an old OS with no upgrades because they are comforatble with buggy software, or 4) any combination of the above.
I troubleshoot computer problems for a living and had to learn Vista. I did not have the latest, greatest processor or video when I installed the beta 1 and had no problems with any version thereafter. Yes, it is different than XP. No, it is not any more a memory hog than XP was. I ran dual boot until the retail version and still most programs run faster in Vista than they did in XP.
Yes, Vista does have a compatibility mode for those programs that need it, no, you don't need the vista version of Every program (I still use Office XP)
The only complaint I have with Vista is that I am forced to use MediaPlayer11 for the DRM.

[AZComicGeek]

Please explain how Vista is a downgrade. Your profile says you are using XP SP1? You must like gaping security holes along with your outdated OS. Have you even tried Vista?

[rgreen4]

There's nothing wrong with that. If you have an operating system that works for you and is supported, by all means stick with it. I would never advocate change for changes sake. I was a late convert to XP, running Win98SE well into 2005. The point I have been trying to make, is that Vista does not deserve the scorn that some have heaped upon it.

I saw that happen with XP when it first came out and bought into it. Of course part of the scorn of XP was the Activation concept, it really was fodder for the grist mill. If they had this forum then, it would have been scorched. The result was that when I bought my HP D530 desktop in late 2003 and it came with XP Pro, I replaced the HD and installed Windows 2000 Pro. It was nowhere as user friendly as 98SE or XP, so about 7 months later I put the original HD back in and Activated XP. A lot of the same things that are being said about Vista were said then about XP - it's unstable, Blue Screens all the time, no programs would run on it, drivers were not available, etc. Most of which I discovered later was false, and the XP and 2K drivers are in most cases the same. Well written programs would run, and I have yet to get a BSOD in XP Pro, Home, or the three installations of Vista I now have.

But, then I don't play any high end games, and don't download a lot of "super duper" must have utilities.

The one OS I had the most trouble with was XP MCE that came pre-installed on my HP Media Center. It later was the beneficiary of a free Vista Home Premium upgade from HP. I blame most of my problems on Symantec which I should have taken off on day one. There are a lot of similaities to the graphics on MCE and Vista, the rounded corners on the windows, and the face that the frame becomes translucent when you move it. If I had found stability with MCE and had sidebar, I probably would not have installed the upgrade.

Of course everytime we go though an upgrade, people expect their current software to run without problems, and some of it is so poorly finished it barely runs on the old OS.

But enjoy MCE, I probably gave up on it too early, but I like my Vista. When I walk into my office at home I have my choice of booting up my XP Pro machine or Vista machine and almost all the time its the Vista machine. When I need a second machine to do something, I then boot up my XP machine.

[coastie65]

I would definately put my money on fact that the good offices of Microsoft are still using XP. I recently read that a large number of " Techies" are rolling their OS back to XP. That ought to say something right there. IT'S A LEMON. As for a comment made earlier about software writers being lazy and taking a short cut in writing apps. Well, as I remember, Microsoft wouldn't give them the necessary information that they reqested in order to write to XP. That is part of the issue with all the stuff going on between Microsoft and the EU now. Unlike the spineless bunch we have in Washington, the EU will stay on microsoft until microsoft does what was ordered. It does involve giving up some so called "proprietary code". At least microsoft claims it is Proprietary. My money is on the EU. Lets face it, Gates and Company wants it all. coastie65

[Number3124]

yes i know I'M using XPsp1 thats because i have a super slow as molasses isp at home and i have used Vista alot just not at home and i know what im talking about with Vista its a piece of crap!

[kjsacramento1]

AZComicGeek, the ignorance is YOURS. Go to Intel or NVIDIA and look at all the driver updates DUE to incompatabilities and problems even on the very latest of their hardware. Read the rest of my threads about fixing just to have updates cause new problems. Have you ever gone to some of the tech sites and read all the whitepapers and advice on quirks and incompatabilities?? I have plenty! Why in the hell do you think updates even exist???!!!! BECAUSE OF INCOMPATABILITIES!! I'm not trying to sell anything except my right to choose my operating system. I wasn't given one. My choice would have been XP until the other users had broken in Vista and minimized the problem. Then I would choose Vista, just not NOW. Every new OS has gone through this, whether they are good ones or not!

[coastie65]

Hey Number 3124, Yeah I know what you mean. I down loaded SP2 with dial up. Started at 5:30 one evening and finished around 11:30, and I was lucky it went that fast. You can get the CD from Microsoft for just the shipping charge, about $1.50. That is what I did just in case I needed to reinstall it again. I did have to due to a problem I had. coastie65

[SusanC]

Hi rgreen4 - I am getting used to using Vista now. Just don't know why HP Smart Center pops up out of the blue. That has happened twice already since I got my PC back with the new hard drive. Also, that was the culprit when my PC crashed 3 times. When I see that screen popping up, I think, "OH NO, NOT AGAIN - PLEASE DON'T CRASH." I need to get stuff into My Documents to do a back up. Someone at Best Buy told me to only back up stuff onto a DVD - is that correct? I have always backed up on a CD-R.

[Number3124]

yeah Vistas heading down the ME road

[caserini]

This reminds me of the time I refused to "upgrade" to ME. I still had 98SE (which was a stable OS along with 2000) until I was pretty much forced to go to XP because my peripherals were no longer working correctly due to their constant updating. I refused then and I refuse now. The problem with this philosophy is that by the time I think an OS might be stable enough to try, it's already gone and you're left to feel like an idiot because you're still running a "dinosaur". I just don't play that way. I don't have a damn iPhone, nor will I until it becomes more stable and the price continues to drop.

Point is, there needs to be more REAL competition, but that will never happen as long as Microsoft is still in business. IE is one of the most pervasive viruses aside from anything AOL. Mozilla is the only one I see making a dent in browsers/email. I use Firefox religiously. At least it's a start.

And as far as OS's, I'm anxious to see what Google might be coming out with. Until then, I'm sticking with XP.

[richardmitnick]

Sorry, but my HP Scanjet 3670 works just fine, buttons and all, in Vista.



>>RSM