[Greshgore]

All righty, I have a Dell Dimension 8200 that has served me faithfully for six almost seven years. (I know, I know, but back then I didn't have time to build one) When I bought it it came with A P4 1.8 Ghz processor, 64 mb GeForce 2 MX, a SB Live! Value card that I never upgraded and 256 MB of RDRAM. Over the last 3 years I've upgraded the graphics card from the stock GeForce2 MX to a GeForce FX 5500, and the RAM from 256 MB to 1 gig. I love my system, but I'm coming to the realization that system specs for games and other programs are far outrunning its capabilities.

I have no money to put toward a new system at the moment, and when I do I will be seriously limited in funds, but nevertheless I would like some advice. I know very little about system specs and what is compatible with what. What can you folks recommend as far as building a decent gaming AND work machine (mobo, processor, RAM, video, sound, the whole works) on a budget that will be comparable to current systems? I realize that "budget" and "current systems" tend to be mutually exclusive but I was hoping with the low prices at places like NewEgg (not to mention a little luck on Ebay) you folks could offer me some help. Also, can anyone point me to some resources so that I can start to sort out for myself the alphabet soup of boards, chipsets etcetera that are in the industry now?

To give you a ballpark of my needs, I'm looking for something that will perform well (doesn't have to be spectacular) with games like Warhammer Online and Battlefield 2142. On the work end, something that can handle having multiple programs like Flash Fireworks Dreamweaver and Word operating smoothly at once. I realize my question itself is a mess, but I appreciate any help provided.

[jbking]

Here are a few links to help get you started:

Anandtech.com's Guides
Extremetech.com's Build It section
Tom's Hardware System Builder Marathon

A couple of other points in this is to look at what is coming out soon that may drive prices down on some current technology, e.g. when "Penryn" ships in November this could lower some current Core 2 Duo prices along with when AMD ships their "Phenom" processors as well as when new GPUs come out that may make some of the low to mid-range cards cheaper. Also, don't forget to also keep an eye on how old the technology is as some of the older stuff may not be supported too long, e.g. a socket 939 system may be a little hard to put together.

JB

[rgreen4]

I recently put together a mid-level system that from my standpoint exceeds my needs - I am not a gamer. I won't go into too many details as the spec's will probably change unless you do it quickly.

I would accumulate a few things that you know you will need, but are not likely to be obsoleted in the near future. For example, you know you will need a DVD drive, and unless you want to take sides in the HiDef war, you would probably pass on the HD/BR DVD's. I would stay away from IDE, however, as most new boards while still supporting IDE, usually only have one connector. I would also definitely go DL as they are likely to become the standard.

The motherboard I got is a gigabyte, and still had the Parallel Printer Port on it. Smax013 later either purchased the same board, newer version, or was looking seriously at it, but let me know that the latest version no longer has the Parallel Printer Port. Not a big deal for me as I no longer have a Parallel Printer, but he does!

Gigabyte does do one thing that not many other board manufacturers do, on their website they provide a table listing all the certifed memory modules for each board at each FSB setting. This was a major point for me, for the memory specifications recently have gotten to the point of almost being like a crap shot as to whether they will work with the myriad of variables. The table lets you go down by speed, pick two or three by brand and model, go online, find the best price and your done!

If you come across a good deal on a case and you like the looks of it, you can glom onto it, as it is unlikely that anything in the offing will significantly change. I purchased an Antec NSK6500 case on a sale because I like the slide trays they have for the HD's. I use the machine as something of a testbed, so the side is rarely on it. The have revised the case to a NSK6580, but I don't see much of a change from a distance.

Sign up for the Newegg discount e-mailers and you can sometimes pick up bits a pieces you may need at a discount. Then when you get ready, you just have to buy the basic guts. I would buy the MB, CPU and Memory all at the same time, otherwise you might get caught with a specification change. I ordered those three items at once along with video card, OEM Vista Home Premium and Office 2007 Home & Student, and the total bill was right at $700. Then I added all the other pieces I had laying around, Case, HD's, DVD, Floppy (6 yrs old), etc. You could probably lessen the impact if you have an older but suitable video card, and upgrade it later.

[ddms70]

By default, a gaming pc would excel as a "work" pc, but NOT the other way around. You can turn a work pc into a gaming pc with something as simple as a decent video card. For about $200, the 1950 is about the best bang for the buck high performance video card you could start out with. Its about the cheapest high end card you can get. Other "gaming" parts include high speed ram, the faster cpu's, the better/best mobo's, good sound cards/speakers, widescreen monitors, good internet connection (low latency, high speed), and a decent mouse. All of these extras are "optional", but have a BIG impact on how your gaming experience will be. That new game you just bought could be either OK, or AMAZING.


Since you have the time, become friends with google. Soon you will be building your new pc yourself, learning why it is best to stay away from the "big box" pc's, which parts to buy, which not to, where to buy, etc....... Just remember that you can start with just a decent video card, of course that depends on the mobo that you have as well.

[ddms70]

rgreen4 said:

I would also definitely go DL as they are likely to become the standard.

What is DL?



Its a shame that some mobo's don't have ANY ide or floppy ports. The floppy is pretty well dead, but will still be around for a few years yet. Many programs and utilities (memtest, bios flashes, etc.) still mainly use the floppy, but what can you do if you can't hook one up. There are some cd iso files, but many are still floppy versions.

[ColoradoThunder]

OK here is a list of NewEgg.com wish list computers with the word cheap in them. Alot are pretty nice too and realy are cheap. The problem is that not everyone puts out-of-the-case components in thier lists ei keyboard, mouse, monitor, camera, speakers and even needed cables for in the case. I think it is still a good source list to start with. I even have a few builds in the list, somewhere. LOL





Wish List

[ColoradoThunder]

Here is the computer I built for my little brother (after he seen I had the same thing, I have a new system now though that will be upgraded around X-mas). I threw the monitor in as a B-day gift for him and I never charge family for my time. He and I both have a few friends that asked me to build this same system for them, some with small changes. This is not the cheapest build I have done (it was my 3rd or 4th build), but I think it is the best all-around for a moderate price. Just remember if there is a lady in your life, get the PC before the ring LOL J/K. At the end I have added ways to cut the cost. I am a novice builder and do it mainly as a hobby, for a hobby and I am still learning. NOTE: I had clickies for every item on the list but after previewing and trying them I found a 404 Error page so I removed the links.
Bro's PC - secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/wishlist/PublicWishDetail.asp?WishListNumber=3935849



-Case

NZXT HUSH (Black)

-PSU

Kingwin 800Watts SLI Certified Power Supply

-MoBo

ASUS P5N32-E SLI Plus LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 650i SLI

-CPU

Intel Core 2 Duo E6700 Conroe 2.66GHz 4M shared L2 Cache LGA 775 (but here is a faster CPU that is new and cheaper. Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 Conroe 2.66GHz 4M shared L2 Cache LGA 775)

-GPU

2xSLI EVGA 8600GTS 256MB

-RAM

2x2GB Patriot Extreme Performance DDR2 800/PC2 6400 (4x1GB dimms)

-HD

Western Digital Cavier 250GB 7200 RPM

-DVD Burners

2xASUS DVD Burners

-OS

Windows Vista Ultimate 64-bit

-Speakers

LogiTech X-230 2.1 Speakers

-Keyboard

LogiTech G15 Gaming Keyboard

-Mouse

LogiTech G7 6Button Gaming Mouse (two batteries but short lifespans)



-Total of $1600.00 when I bought it.

+ 24" Samsung Widescreen LCD

= about $2300.00



Want to drop the cost? OK here are some ways how.



Go with a smaller LCD (but please don't go smaller than 19") or a cheaper CRT (both View Sonic and NEC still make great 21" CRT monitors. Heck even re-use the one you already have for now. You can start with 1 video card rather than 2 (or go with a single 640MB card for the price of the two I have SLIed here). Just 2 Gigs of RAM instead of 4 (I personaly would never use Vista without at least 2GBs of RAM) will hold you over for a while. Add some more RAM later. Also you can easily go with Windows Vista Home Premium Edition 64-bit to save $50-100 (or just stick with XP for as long as you can). I think a very good idea as well is to just get XP, but a 64-bit edition. You can also just start with 1 CD-ROM drive (or burner or DVD-ROM or even go with a DVD-ROM+CD burner for a little less) rather than 2 DVD Burners ( I use mine for DVD home video editing and archiving). Going with less expensive OEM parts is also a way to trim just a bit of the cost off. You can always get a different Hard Drive as well along with changes to the speakers, mouse, and keyboard. That will cut $350-700 or so off the $1600 price plus what ever you save on a monitor. I went with a 800Watt PSU just so I wouldn't have to buy another one in the "near" future. You can get one that costs less, but I wouldn't go below 600Watts PSU.



The 4 biggest things you DO want are 64-bit compatable MoBo, CPU, Video card and a 64-bit (Windows) OS. These will save you a huge headache in the end and keep you from having to upgrade alot for a while IMO. If Vista is still to scetchy for you to invest in stick with what you use for now and get Vista later. Guess the SP1 for Vista comes out Q1 of '08.

[mphenterprises]

Hi DDMS70. DL = Dual Layer (DVD with Data on both sides of the disc)

[rgreen4]

DL is Double Layer, a Double Layer DVD stores 8.5GB vs 4.7GB for a single layer.

[mphenterprises]

LOL Dual/Double LOL Shoot, I should have just looked at my DVD Drives LOL :D

[rgreen4]

Double Layer, not Double Sided. The Double Layer is still single sided. You don't have to flip it over. Most commercial DVD's with movies have been DL from the start, but the home recording did not have the technology to do it.

[mphenterprises]

Good clarification RGreen. Thanks.

[ddms70]

mphenterprises said:

Hi DDMS70. DL = Dual Layer (DVD with Data on both sides of the disc)

LOL, thanks. After I wrote that I went out to mow the lawn and kept thinking about it and what it had to do with hard drives (I thought that was what he was talking about). After a few minutes of driving around in circles, I realized he must have been talking about dvd's. :p

I've had one for about a year now, but have never even bought an 8.5GB disk (last time I checked they were still about twice the price as other dvd's). I don't burn much, except if I want a big program transferred to another pc with only dialup or something.

[mphenterprises]

Yes, they are still very expensive. The least expensive I found were at a local computer show & sale. There are only seven options available on newegg.com. It looks like they are retailing for over $1.20 per DL DVD. Compare that to $20-$30 for a spindle of 100 DVDs (25 cents per DVD at $25).

[smax013]

rgreen4 said:

The motherboard I got is a gigabyte, and still had the Parallel Printer Port on it. Smax013 later either purchased the same board, newer version, or was looking seriously at it, but let me know that the latest version no longer has the Parallel Printer Port. Not a big deal for me as I no longer have a Parallel Printer, but he does!

I did finally pull the trigger (was mainly going back and forth on which processor to choose). The motherboard arrived yesterday with the OS (WinXP Pro), the DVD drive, the processor (went with the E6850), and an OEM version of Office 2003 (not quite ready for the new interface of Office 2007, but wanted to be "legal" on the new computer). The memory arrived today. I had already gotten a case, power supply and video card a week or so ago.



So, this weekend's project will likely be to put it together. I might do it tomorrow since I cannot watch Michigan play Purdue due to those greedy smucks at the Big Ten and Big Ten Network (Comcast does not carry it)...last year, I was able to watch all the games...not so much this year. Anyways, need to clean the office some so that I have room to work...so once I do that, I might put it together this weekend. If I am a good boy, I will do my "homework" tonight and read through the motherboard manual.

[rgreen4]

Let me know how it goes. I know you will enjoy the machine, to use the new term that's going around with the younger generation, its sweet.

[smax013]

rgreen4 said:

Let me know how it goes. I know you will enjoy the machine, to use the new term that's going around with the younger generation, its sweet.

I certainly will. I have not marked my thread/question from a little while ago as answered. Did not want to do that until I had actually built it and made sure I had all my questions answered! :-)

[TechyGuy]

Hi Greshore,
If you want a mid-range gaming Pc, I'd look into http://cyberpowerpc.com/], because they have some of the best prices I've ever seen, and most of them come with a 3-yr. warranty & 24/7 lifetime tech support. Another good/cheap gaming Pc brand is [Aeoncraft , except they don't have very good warranties (in my opinion).
Also, Here is a list of my reccomended brands for components(from past experiences & reviews I've read):
-Chipset(motherboard): Asus or MSI
-RAM: Mushkin,Corsair, Kingston, or Crucial
-Sound Card: Creative Labs
-Power Supply: Thermaltake or Tagan, possibly NZXT or Enermax
-Hard disk drive: Seagate, Western Digital, Hitachi
-CPU cooling: Thermaltake, CoolerMaster, Asetek
-Network card: Killer, Intel PRO Gigabyte
You might also want to read [this|d-1156] document .
Hope it helps,
-TechyGuy

[ddms70]

TechyGuy said:

Also, Here is a list of my reccomended brands for components(from past experiences & reviews I've read):
-Chipset(motherboard): Asus or MSI
-RAM: Mushkin,Corsair, Kingston, or Crucial
-Sound Card: Creative Labs

Until recently, I would have agreed with Asus. My previous boards have been Asus, but their support is VERY lacking. If you have issues, don't even bother going to their forums. I'd suggest EVGA whom have excellent customer support with an active forum as well as Foxconn.

Ram, I'd suggest OCZ for the same reasons.

Sound card, creative holds the marketshare, but not because of quality or support. I've always used them, and never had many problems, except for the odd driver issue. Again, if you have a problem, DON'T rely on their forums for any support. You have to look elsewhere for fixes, which is such a shame, because they seem to just sell you the product and then move on to the next project, occasionally releasing a new fix.

[rkinne01]

Save yourself some cash by using some of what you have now. Use the same PC case that you have now along with the power supply, cables, etc., so long as your new gear is in the same form factor you should be able to use most of it. Keep in mind that you can move the guts of the PC to a new case when your budget allows.

The video card and sound cards you have aren't great but will due for the time being (though when you can afford it get a PCI Express Video Card, the sound card should be the last thing you replace). Most PC's have built in NIC cards so that is not an issue. You may be able to reuse your hard drive, if not they are pretty cheap these days.

You'll want to spend most of your cash on Motherboard, CPU, and RAM. Mother boards aren't too expensive these days so no big deal there. CPU is the most expensive piece of you PC so spend some time doing research before buying, look at the AMD's better bang for your buck. RAM is the easiest upgrade to do, I would say to get no less than 2 gigs of RAM to start with, then buy more when you can afford to.

You didn't mention what OS your planning on using, you could use what you have now to save some cash (assuming that its not an OEM version). If you're looking for a newer OS go to Newegg.com and run a search for XP or Vista OEM versions, they'll save you a few buck over buying a full retail version. If you want Vista look for the Home Premium Version, do NOT bother with Home Basic.

One last suggestion... Try looking at pre-built systems sometimes they're cheaper than custom built PC's. Check with some of the online retailers and compare the systems they have compared to what you want. While looking at computers in the store ask if any display models are available for sale, these are often marked down, with the savings you could get extra RAM or buy an extra harddrive.