[Number3124]

O_o WOW!!!!! Um I do promote Linux but I've got to side with Jarod on this one.

[DoctorDoom]

Side with him on what? You've posted 200+ messages on this board, do you think Jarod's behavior is acceptable?

I didn't attack him, he jumped all over me for saying I liked Vista. So he likes (cr)Apple and you like OpenSource, so who cares? You don't think I'm going to sit here and be abused by some Crapple FanBoi do you? lol

You guys are really making my day! I appreciate it! Seriously!!

[mphenterprises]

Okay, let's calm things down a bit in this Discussion please. Jarod and DoctorDoom, please keep all posts to the Discussion at hand. No personal attacks please. Your various posts will be edited to remove any attacks against the other.

[DoctorDoom]

Geez it's about time, where have you been?

[mphenterprises]

:-) Business calls. :-)

[DoctorDoom]

I hear that. It was a nice little diversion from my project though...

]:)



--Doom

[Number3124]

I didn't mean it like that I meant that I was siding with him on the Mac vs. Windows thing, but the way he said it was totally out of line.

[rwelz]

I've been using Vista since January and I think it's a significant improvement over XP, although it takes some people, some getting used to.
That said, I've still kept XP installed to run (as an example) Roxio Creator 9 which despite compatability settings, will not run under Vista.
Creator 10 which I recently installed into Vista runs but has given me, for the first time ever, stability proplems with the operating system.
Some people might not like the hassale of maintaing a dual boot system, but for me it's a perfect solution. I run Vista whenever I can, I like it, and I occasionally (rarely) boot up XP.

[DoctorDoom]

Yeah, I originally bought Vista on Day 1 (Jan 31), and kept my old XP partition as a dual-boot safety net. The first month or so I had to log into XP to use Nero 6, as it was incompatible with Vista. Once they updated Nero to version 7 (free), which is Vista compatible, I don't think I have booted to XP more than twice (in about 8 months), and only then to keep it up to date with Windows Update. I still have the dual-boot configuration, but I'll probably do a rebuild sometime in the next 6 months, and will just install Vista 64-bit on a single partition. I'm running Vista 32-bit now. I really do like Vista, I think it's a great evolution from XP.

[Toulinwoek]

There ARE incompatibility issues with Vista, of that there is no doubt whatsoever. YOU personally might not be experiencing any, but they are a fact. I support a network of upward of half a million users from business to personal to strange, and I have encountered a lot of issues that are simply "it doesn't work with Vista" issues.
However, I think "plagued by incompatibilities" is a bit too strong a phrase for the situation (unless of course you happen to be one of the affected). I don't think it's cause for bashing Vista, nor do I think reporting the fact that there are issues necessarily constitutes bashing. That's a little strong a phrase too.
I also don't think any of the issues are Microsoft's fault, unless someone is going to say that Microsoft intentionally creates incompatibilities, which would be ludicrous. I think the fault lies with these companies that are already (IMO) overcharging for their software and some hardware and are too cheap/lax about building support.

[WardABWE]

Now that the school yard fight is over -- let's go back to the article!

Did the software companies (and hardware vendors) drag their feet more for Vista than for the other new MS operating systems? For some reason, was it more difficult to upgrade everything? Is that the reason for the delays?

Or do the soft/hard ware guys want you to buy all new stuff -- just like MS wants you to do with a new OS? Sounds logical. When you buy a new car you do not ask for your old gas tank, windshield, and bucket seats to be taken out of your old trade-in and installed in your new vehicle -- even though they work perfectly.

Perhaps we need to look at a computer purchase as a one time (eventual total throwaway) purchase -- never to be upgraded, or newer OS or hard/soft ware ever to be added after the initial purchase -- like the car idea?

Is this why the "incompatibilities" plague us -- the soft/hard ware guys have done it intentionally?????

[rgreen4]

I don't necessarily think it was a "let's not update the old so they have to buy the new" consipiracy, but a fact that they like any company have limited resources. Hardware manufacturers that have to provide drivers obviously have to concentrate on newer hardware first. I have a 5-6 year old HP Scanner. It uses the old twain drivers that are no longer used. HP decided not to provide Vista support for this scanner.

I'm not blaming HP, the scanner is of a type they haven't produced for some years, they need to concentrate their efforts on the newer devices. In addition, they are in business to make money, and the effort to develop driver updates has costs with no offsetting revenue, unless the product is in the current line. At first I used it hooked up to my older XP Pro supported HP desktop. Recently I took the opportunity to replace it with with an All-In-One printer. In the box with it was a Mac driver disc, a 2000/XP driver disc and a Vista driver disc.

So, should they have delayed this product to write drivers for how many of my old scanners still operating? They owe support to current products, recent products still under warranty, and then how far back? Some companies have not updated any drivers - and they are wrong. Some companies are charging for updated drivers - a grey area - wrong if it a current or recent product.

[cfischer83]

Of course there are incompatibility issues with Vista. There are incompatibility issues with XP too! Until every last thing on Earth works with an OS there is always an 'issue'. The 'bashing' comes in when people go way over board because they want to jump on the band wagon and get lots of hits because of the shock factor (you gather more flies with garbage etc.).

Right now I'd say that you can safely upgrade to Vista. There are some 'issues' still out there but it certainly isn't a problem like people are lead to believe.... and it's DEFINITELY not, "Plagued". This honestly doesn't even merit a story, so the fact that they made it a story and then sensationalized it the way they did is why I called it "bashing". The truth is that even if something worse than this happens to Leopard, you won't hear about it because it's not the 'popular' thing to do by criticizing Apple.

[art209]

Let's not issue new drivers for old components, so they can end up in the landfill. Is this how companies go green?

[DarrylDWoods]

Aha Doc. Vista is not an evolution from XP, but a departure.

[haystack]

Yes for an operating system that has suposedly ectensivly tested we should not behaving these compatibility problem.
Ulead CD & DVD Picture show 4 is another one of the programs that dose not run under Vista.

[sweetsirenaty]

I am somewhat on cfischer's side. I've had my Vista since May and the only problem I've had is switching from one profile to another. Other than, Vista has been great. I have encountered only a few software that were not Vista compatible immediately out of the box, but its amazing how many software developer website offer a compatibility update for free.

I need to find the articles that are more explicit about what the exact problems are that other people are experiencing. I am not having many problems making incompatible software and hardware compatible.

[RastaMon]

{quote}I don't like being overcharged by 200 or 300 percent so I won't be switching to (cr)Apple anytime in my lifetime.{quote}

Spread that FUD, Doc!

When I bought my MacBook 1 1 ⁄ 2 months ago, an equivalently configured Dell was a few hundred dollars more expensive. I was able to find a couple name brand laptops with equivalent hardware that were within $25 or so, I was unable to find any that were cheaper. That comparison was based solely on hardware (disregarding legacy features like serial ports and phone modems), without taking Apple's software advantages into consideration. To be fair, I've made similar comparisons with other Mac models at other times, and Apple is not always the cheapest of the big name brands, nor are they often the most expensive. Just because Apple doesn't sell bargain basement machines with the lowest spec parts they can find does not mean their machines are overpriced. It means you can't make a valid comparison with an entry level Dell or HP, etc.

Also note that the MSRP of Vista Ultimate is $399. The MSRP of Leopard is $129. Who is it that you said was overcharging their customers by 200 percent?

If you want to compute total cost of ownership per year over the life of the computer, Apples tend to be significantly cheaper than other options. Not counting the time I've spent keeping some free space on my hard drive, I can count all the hours I've spent doing maintenance during my first three years as a Mac user on one finger. On the other hand, time spent doing just malware related maintenance during my last year on Windows is counted in the dozens, if not hundreds of hours.

My time is not without value. Nor do I like wasting my system resources with a bunch of extraneous software running in the background, offering protection that a properly designed OS should do by itself. And when I upgrade my operating system, I expect my computer to run faster without needing to upgrade my hardware.

Having been an early adopter of Tiger with older hardware, which did run faster after upgrading the OS, I can tell you that the transition went much smoother than the transition we are seeing from XP to Vista. The time it took to fix unexpected incompatibilities was measured in days or weeks, not months or years.

I used Windows for a lot of years. I've used Macs nearly exclusively for the past three. Macs are a far better value. They're not perfect; no computer is. But there are legitimate reasons why Mac users are often passionate about their platform. If you like Vista, that's great. I'm happy for you. By all means, use it proudly. But when you start making FUD claims that Apple overcharges their customers "by 200 or 300 percent," all you accomplish is expose the readers of these forums to the fact that you're not knowledgeable about Apple or Macs.

[pcman3219]

WUTA DUM ARTICLE

[yearight3]

Perhaps the S/W vendors know what those of us with brains know, VISTA IS A BOMB! NOBODY, I repeat, NOBODY is buying it, unless then get stuck with it and don't know better. Clients of mine with NO tech savvy have heard, and know Vista stinks. It's not only plagued by incompatibilities, it's plagued by POOR DESIGN, slowness and having ABSOLUTELY NOTHING of value to the user other than a pretty interface. Clue to MS. BUY A BRAIN, LEARN FROM THIS!