[kcihtred2]

ok i have a tough choice to make, Ubuntu 7.10 Server Edition or Windows Home Server? heres the specs of the machine:
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 LE-1600 $43
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103199
Mobo: Foxconn N570SM2AA-8EKRS2H $60 (After $40 mail in rebates)
[http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813186104]
RAM: Transcend 2GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) $41
[http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820208344]
Hard Drive: 2x Western Digital Caviar SE WD5000AAJS $100
[http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136178]
Video Card: MSI NX7300LE-TD128EH $20 (After $10 mail in rebates)
[http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127273]
Optical Drive: Lite-On SATA 20x DVD Burner, 48x CD Burner $38
[http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106072]
Case: ??? (also i need help finding a case from newegg, the cheaper the better)

now what i am wondering is im backing up 5 Windows machines, would i be better off just doing a Windows and not having to hassle with Linux? or become more fluent with linux and learn it (btw im becoming a IT secuirity person and am starting college next year). I want to be able to network the failed computer (when it happens (and hopefully it doesn't)) with a Ethernet cord and just format the computer reinstall the OS and network the data over. I dont mind spending the extra money, but what will be easier (i have 2 ubuntu books, Ubuntu Linux Bible and The Offical Ubuntu Book).

[rgreen4]

Look before you leap. If you have a relatively unrestricted broadband connection you can download Ubuntu and then install it on a clean drive on one machine. From my experience with multi-booting Vista, XP and Ubuntu, installing each on a separate drive and then using the BIOS boot menu on startup is easier as no operating system has priority and will not interfere with each other.
I have satellite with a 200MB daily limit, so I ordered the full Ubuntu disk set and "live CD" which allows you to run Ubuntu from the CD and then install if you want. The set also came with a book that was 7.04 Feisty Fawn, but that didn't hurt, but the book wasn't much help either. I installed it first on my older laptop (XP, can't upgrade to Vista - integrated video) and spent several hours trying to get it to connect to my network. I then found out that Linux does not have Broadcom support (per the Linux forum, Ubuntu community).
I then installed it on a clean drive on a new build destop connected via ethernet cable and it connected to the internet just fine. In fact used Firefox to respond to several posting on this community without a problem. However, while it could see other computers connected to the network, I was never able to get it to access any of the files on the shares of other machines. I keep all my data on an Infrant NV+ NAS, and while it would recognize the device, would not access the files. Interesting enough, the device I beleive uses Linux as its OS. After reading several posts of how you have to go into their terminal (text based, similar to the DOS command window) and go through a complex proceedure to try, I gave up and removed it from the machine.
If you have several machines and want centralized data storage, I would recommend to take one and make it a server. Windows XP would be fine as it is easily accessable from other machines and utilizes the NTFS file system. If it supports Raid, I would put two data drives in the machine in a Raid1 configuration with a large share and simply leave the machine on all the time. At the time I set mine up, I did not have a machine that fit that criteria and ordering the NAS was cheaper than a PC, even a built machine. The front panel display will alert you to problems with the drives, which a PC will not necessarily do. LaCie is coming out with a more cost effective NAS Unit which looks good, but I have not seen any reviews yet. It only hold two drives, but with the larger drives out now and in Raid1 (mirroring) they should be fine for most uses. I only have two drives in mine even though it hold 4.

[kcihtred2]

the computers at my house are almost obsolete, and none of them could function as a server for certain reasons (maxium of 2 or 1 hard drives, we use all of them at the moment, not enough processing power on even the best one (mine)... do i really have to continue) We have put around $700 budget for this, and are sold on the idea of getting a server, because we have just lost data, and had a hard time recovering it. I have already downloaded ubuntu 7.10 Alt and regular server edition and have burned them onto disc. This is a completely dedicated server, no other OS's other than the server OS, so dual-booting is out. Plus id like to learn how to use these OS's before college. Baiscally i just want to no the +s and -s of each OS for the server

[smax013]

I am still not sure what you are trying to accomplish. Are you planning on storing all your data on the server for all the computers? That is the primary purpose of a server...to store data in one centralized location. You can use a server as a central location to backup your data from local computers, but basic server software cannot "take" files from a "client" computer for backup. You have to copy the data from the client to the server using the client computer.

If you want a way to backup computers and want to control that from a central computer, then you will need more than just a server with basic server software.

[kcihtred2]

i want to take a copy of the data, and store it on the server. So what program would you recommend for the other end of it???

[smax013]

kcihtred2 said:

i want to take a copy of the data, and store it on the server. So what program would you recommend for the other end of it???

It depends at which computer you are sitting at when you do the "copying".

If you are going to copy from the client computer to the server computer while sitting at the client computer and initiate the backup from the client computer and you are just using the server to "dump" the data to, then just about any typical backup program should do. Beyond that, I would note that to some degree you are potentially wasting money to use a true server (i.e. a computer running server software), when a NAS drive will do the same thing with no need to a keyboard, mouse, monitor, optical drive, etc.

If you are going to copy from the client computer to the server using a backup that initiates from the "server", then I believe I had already mentioned Retrospect. It can be used as a "regular" backup program, but also can be used to backup systems across a network using a central "server". You install the main backup program on the central "server" and then install clients on each "client" computer that you want to backup, and then you can backup using the "server". But, you DO NOT need to be running Windoze server on the "server" computer...it can be run on a computer running regular old Windoze. Thus, you could get Retrospect, install the main program on one of the computers that you have now, install the clients on each of the other computers, and then backup each computer to an external drive or optical drive that is attached to the "main" "server" computer that you installed the main Retrospect program onto. In other words, you DO NOT need to setup a dedicated, true server.

[kcihtred2]

ok well if thats the case, then what NAS would you recommend? I want RAID 1 on it, so itll be more secure, and we have wireless g 108 mb at our house, will that complicate things any?

[rgreen4]

You should read the reviews and decide which is best for you. It depends on a number of factors. I like my Infrant system and 7 months ago when I bought it, it was the most effective for storing data files. I quickly discovered a quirk when I tried to use it for streaming music files, every song played on my Media Center from the NAS had a very short drop out about 5-6 seconds into the song and then it was fine. The first time I thought it was the recording (I had ripped from the CD which had no such problem). It could also be interaction because this machine connects via wireless. I simply moved all my music files to a data drive in that machine.
All my other data files are on the NAS, so I can update and access from any machine. The Raid1 gives a high level of comfort, but be aware that it is not proof from all failure. I lost a drive and lost no data because the other drive was intact. I simply replaced the drive and it re-synced the new drive to the old one. (It does take several hours). I back up the entire data to another drive on a monthly basis. I joined the lost data club over 20 years ago, and desperately try not to renew my membership.
The new LaCie unit has promise, and is about half the price of the Infrant (Now Netgear) after their buy-out. HP also has an NAS called Media Vault that when reviewed by PC World a while back was rated as the fastest since it was optimized for Media streaming which the Infrant is not. Note that it comes with only one HD, but has space for the second. When the second matching HD is added it can set to Raid1. I opted for the Infrant because the instruction manual was much clearer about replacing drives. The HP unit uses a system installation on the main drive, so if you lose it, then what? I never got a good answer. It is optimized more for media streaming than a true NAS in my opinion.
There are a multitude of these devices out there now and more coming on line every day. Home users with more than one machine have discovered the problems in maintaing their files on different machines and adequately protecting them from loss. Backups of multiple machines are a hassle. With the exception of the music files in the one machine, and my Outlook Express e-mail archives on another, I have no data on any machine, just the NAS. BTW - I have no problem accessing the NAS with XP Home and I have the NAS share mapped as a drive on each machine with the same drive letter - O:, which I used to get it well away from the variety of drive letters associated with memory card readers and flash drives (they go up to K: on one machine).

[smax013]

kcihtred2 said:

ok well if thats the case, then what NAS would you recommend? I want RAID 1 on it, so itll be more secure, and we have wireless g 108 mb at our house, will that complicate things any?

~22087] has and uses the Infrant one that he has mentioned, but it is on the expensive side (building a computer with RAID 1 on the motherboard may not be a waste of money in comparison to some degree). The other one that has caught my eye is one by LaCie. I believe that [~22087] linked to it earlier in this thread in one of his posts. If not, [here it is again. It is much more cost "efficient" than the Infrant one.

[kcihtred2]

ok i have chosen one, the Western Digital MyBook World Edition (for the reason that they can be acessed anywhere, which helps my sister who needs a backup in new hampshire) Now i need software that'll AUTOMATICALLY backup the pc's changes on startup or at a certain time. Any suggestions?

[rgreen4]

I agree that the LaCie unit has promise. It's not on the market yet, although the larger ones are.
Kchihtred2 - one thing I would reccommend is when you have it narrowed to 2 or 3, go on each manufacturers website, and in the support section, download the user manual for the devices. Then browse through them for information on setting up the devices so each computer can access it.

Do you need to install a special program on each machine?

How easy is it to swap drives?

Can you use any drives?

I can answere the qestions on the Infrant - a special program is installed on one of my machines to access the OS and set it up. After that, each other computer sees the shares through Windows, no other special software is needed. It also uses commonly available drives, but does have a list of drives that are certified and also lists those which have had problems. This is on their website.

Iomega for example also has an NAS, the user's guide is a series of HTML files on the website with links from one to another, very difficult to download and read off the computer. They also require you to buy the drives from them with the trays pre-installed (Infrant provides 4 empty trays with the box) and of course they are more expensive that way. I think the Iomega and HP have a program that must be installed on each machine, but I don't remember for sure. I eliminated Iomega quickly over their requirement that you buy the drives from them.

Read over the manuals and it will answer most of your questions, and you will get a good understanding of the devices. I do this on most every large purchase I do now, including TV's. (Especially after making a spot purchase of an LCD HDTV (32") and found no HDMI connections, just S-Video and Component. Not a big deal, but dissappointing. The TV works fine with component, its just 5 wires with audio vs. 1. I also glom onto the picture of the back of PC's and NAS's to check out the connections almost the first thing now.

Be cautious when researching the LaCie - they have a twin of the machine we reference, but it is Firewire and USB only. Fine for connecting to one machine, but not a home network. Of course you could leave the host machine on all the time and share it, but it is the same price and won't be out until January. And Oh BTW - I believe that the Infrant device does use a basic form of Linux for their OS. Of course it is optimized for just this use.

[smax013]

kcihtred2 said:

ok i have chosen one, the Western Digital MyBook World Edition (for the reason that they can be acessed anywhere, which helps my sister who needs a backup in new hampshire) Now i need software that'll AUTOMATICALLY backup the pc's changes on startup or at a certain time. Any suggestions?

I will note that the Western Digital that you referenced is NOT a RAID device, I believe. You had implied that you wanted a NAS with RAID. If so, then the WD does not fit what you were looking for.



As to backup software, if you go with this drive, then you should first see if the included backup software (Retrospect Express) will work for your purposes or not. I can do scheduled backups. My dad uses Retrospect Express. I have it set to backup every night. If he had the computer turned off and it misses a backup time, then the next time he turns it on, it tries to complete the backup. Thus, it might do what you need to do. If not, then we can go from there.