[RedRat]

I got into a discussion in another forum concerning XP and Vista, in the process we got into Linux. I posted several long replies to others and several suggested that I should post these replies in edited form in this forum. Here goes:

Having used both Windows, Macs (got started with the little Mac SE way, way back when), Linux (in the Red Hat early days than fell away), and now modern Linux, I think my perspective is somewhat open minded (at least I would like to believe that) in regard to choice of OS. I have seen all to frequently the "true believers" for all operating systems, be they Macs (they tend to be the worst), Windows, and Unix in all of its flavors including Linux. Each of these systems has something to offer to the general public, depending on what they want to do. And that is the reason for my comments here.

Reading various comments concerning the ease or difficulty with Linux are legitimate critiques of the Linux system. But one must keep in mind that most people commenting here are long time Windows or Mac users who are switching over to another new and different operating system. Most have spent probably 10 years dealing with the Windows or Mac interface and have learned to do things the "Microsoft Way" or the "Apple Way". Old habits die hard.

That being said, if you are thinking of switching to Linux you must realize that it is different! You must expect that there will be a learning curve; it is going to take time. If you think that you cannot "afford" to spend several hours or days reading about Linux, then please, don't attempt to change over to Linux--stay with Windows or Mac. Think carefully about why you want to switch.

There are several very good books out about Linux, I would suggest that you read those before switching and certainly go online and check out the various distros of Linux before choosing the one that you like best. Ubuntu is being continually updated since it is a very viable and dynamic operating system. These updates come at 6 month intervals, the next one is due in April of next year (it will be 8.04). Because of writing and printing schedules, it would be practically impossible to have a book and release version coincide. But most of these releases are evolutionary rather than revolutionary. I think the most significant change that has come was the release of the 2007 versions. I suspect that next years versions will be mostly tweaking and improvements in the interface. I have not gotten as far as being a beta tester yet.

There are several sites that present screen shots of the various window managers for the distros of Linux. Check them out and look them over carefully. These can give you some idea about the "Look and Feel" of that particular distro. For practical purposes, the basic core of Linux is the same for all distros and the differences are merely "window dressing". The one distro that seems to be geared for the first timers appears to be Ubuntu, and here you have several window dressings (quite literally): Gnome and KDE (kbunuto distro). Kbuntu probably appeals to Windows users, Gnome comes with the Ubuntu distro.

Which ever distro you choose will require effort on your part. If you are looking for a simple hand holding for the installation and don?t have the time to work with the system, then stick with Mac or Windows. Both Microsoft and Apple have spent billions on making their operating systems easy to install and use.

For getting help and assistance you have the Forums and Usenet (Newgroups). I have found that the Ubuntu forums are helpful but then you do have to wait for a reply since people pop in and then pop out. The Usenet community seems a bit faster but that is where you run into the knowitalls and you will suffer through the insults. If you decide on the Usenet/Newsgroup approach to help, then be aware that there seems to be several different types of people who seem to be willing to "help". There are those who are basically anti-social geeks who know it all and think they are superior to you, and they want to let you and the rest of the community know it also. Sad to say you just have to put up with these people and learn to ignore them. They usually do not offer any real or significant help, just insults. (The good thing about the Usenet groups is that you can usually use your newsreader to "plonk" them so it just ignores their replies or comments.) Then there are the basic geeks who think you are just as knowledgeable as they are so they tend to use acronyms and basically their help sounds like Greek. They are well intentioned but really don't know how to pass their knowledge on to you, you may get a tidbit from them that might be helpful. Lastly there are the users who are both knowledgeable and recognize that they too were in the same boat you are in. They will provide the most help to you.

In the end, just be patient and wade through the riff and raff and chatter, you will get there.

[Bruceslog]

Have you given PCLinuxOS 2007 a serious look ?

Everyone I know of agrees, that the more you use PCLinuxOS, the more you find that it is way Better than Ubuntu .



If you are really such an experimenter, then you should have a extra test box laying around to load PCLinuxos

onto and get t know better.

Hope you get a chance to try it out.

[RedRat]

Yes I have tried it. In fact I loaded it onto my Dell Dimension 4100 (pretty old machine with a 900MHz Pentium and 246MB memory) and it ran very well. I liked it. But I had some problems with my hard drive and through some mis-steps, remember I don't consider myself an experienced user, in trying to re-install PCLinux a finally had to just reformat the hard drive. At that time I saw Ubuntu 7.04 and decided to try it instead. Thought that if it didn't work out, I would just go back to PCLInux. But I found Ubuntu installed very nicely, had a raft of applications and it did seem to have a bit more support, both in forums and on Usenet. So I have stayed with Ubuntu. I will say this for PCLinux, it seems to run faster on that Dell than Ubuntu. If I had to fall back on another distro, it would probably be PCLinux. PCLinux seems a bit more like your standard Unix systems, in that you have a root administrator and then a user. In Ubuntu you just have your login and you can be the administrator. Each time you update you have to enter your password as administrator. Depends on what you like I guess.

I am planning on building a new machine with a bit more horsepower and it will be a Linux machine, probably Ubuntu Studio since I want to play with photos and video. Now I am just waiting for sales on motherboards and CPUs.

[Adama]

Great information, RedRat. I appreciate that you're not trying to "convert" people to Linux, only to give information that people can use if they want to.

[GoneFishing]

Having used windows since 3.1 and tried several flavors of Linux, red hat and ubunto, and used mac's long ago.one of the most well supported and often over looked linux based OS's is Mepis- IMO, and the support is great, all the reviews that I find on it are very good to great, it's not often you get a OS that will run from a CD, recognizes all your hardware and if it doesn't just email the man, he'll get back to you, I emailed him once at 3 in the morning and he responded immeadently! the man never sleeps, no learning curve (or at least not more than 20 min of reading the features)acts like a well designed GUI should, doesn't crash, no virus problems, no spyware, no adware,no problems

[Bruceslog]

I agree, Mephis is under-rated. I used Mephis for afew years, before I found PCLinuxOS. In fact, it still has a place on one of my hard drive partitions ( Ok, 2 places on 2 partitions [ home and root ] ). But I haven't used it in a couple of years. I just found PCLinux to be much more refined and more to my liking, and everything worked so well right out of the box for my particular setup with PCLOS. But I did like Mephis and for awhile there, it was my primary Linux OS for a time. Like RedHat says, it's just all what a person likes :)

BTW, to the Original Poster, RedHat, I discovered this past week that the PCLinuxOS system I had asked you if youd tried, now has several flavors of itself. One is the regular PCLOS with KDE and Compwiz-Fusion, one is called TinyME, a smaller, faster version of the OS, which has been around for a year or two now, and the latest version moves from the KDE desktop environment to the gnome desktop. ( Most folks that prefer Ubuntu and Macs prefer the gnome desktop GUI ). This newest version is named PCLinuxOS-Gnome.

Quote;

From the PCLinuxOS.com website; Community Remaster - PCLOS Gnome 2.12.2 Released
Written by Administrator
Friday, 28 December 2007

Ken Dotson (Gnome Edition Release Manager) has announced the release of PCLOS Gnome Edition 2.21.2. Featuring kernel 2.6.22.15, Gnome 2.21.2, Gnome office apps, Firefox 2.0.0.11, Frostwire, Azureus, Xmms, Flash, JRE, a ton of multimedia apps, and much more. Complete package list here. Almost 2 gigs of software compressed on a single self bootable livecd that can be installed to your hard drive provided it is compatible with your system and you like the distribution. Over 7000+ additional packages available after hard drive install through our Synaptic Software Manager.

All new bootsplash, backgrounds, and really nice features, upgraded to a great looking operating system and the best out-of-the-box look, and user experience possible! I hope that you will be completely satisfied with this new PCLinuxOS gnome!
http://www.linuxgato...page/gnome.html

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There are also several other new community releases of PCLOS. ( Such quick community releases are possible because PCLinuxOS allows one to customize ones system for a particular use, and then with one or two commands one can create a remaster, a live, bootable, installable CD or DVD of the OS. I personally have just used remaster as disk image backups. Others are creating their own customized operating system for different purposes ).

The latest community remasters are

Sam Linux - with Xfce4.4 desktop, which puts ones Home partition on a USB thumbdrive.

Business Edition - ( BEL ) - which is workstation oriented and includes server basic. ( Server Pro coming soon ).

TinyMe - as mentioned above

PCFluxboxOS - using the Fluxbox Window Manager, for lightning speeds on much older computers.

The afore mentioned Gnome edition

And Bugnux - the first specialized version of linux distribution for creating and testing software. To Quote:

BugnuX is a PCLinuxOS based distribution that uses Enlightenment 0.17and Fluxbox as the window manager. Although it has tools specially for software testing, it contains all the tools necessary for a common user. BugnuX is the first linux distribution for software testing, that is also installable, packaged with useful Testing Tools to help testers and quality assurance personnel. Open source Tools for testing web application, Java, load and performance are provided by default.

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Here's that particular webpage address http://www.pclinuxos...id=37&Itemid=89


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I thought that was all pretty cool :)

So, yeah, I found that I did not like Ubuntu at all, but I really did like Mephis, but PCLOS is just a lightyear or two ahead of everyone else. And I've tried about 18 distro's the last 3 or 4 years.. including Ubuntu and Kbuntu, Mephis,.......

Like Original Poster said, it's just all in what you like most.

That's one of the reasons why there ends up being so many different versions of Linux to start with.

So, Anyone contemplating a switch to Linux, go for it :) Each distribution normally has it's own LiveCD's that let you try the different flavors of Linux without installing or changing a thing onto your computer. If you find you do not like a particular flavor ( distro-[bution] ), then you can try another one. For the most part, and with few exceptions, they are all completely Free. Just download, burn to CD, and boot up into the CD. Live Linux CD's will run directly off of the CD without changing a thing on your computer.

And if you decide to try Linux, there will be a learning curve, just as RedHat has said. It will not be exactly the same learning curve that you had when you started with Windows, since you are now already familiar with files, folders, shutdown, and all that stuff. And you already know what the Start button is and where it is at. :)

Most Linux distributions are very similar to most Windows computers. The Start Menu, the taskbar with your running programs and applications in it, the system tray with the clock and other informative icons.

The biggest thing you'll notice, and have to learn anew, is that the names of your programs/applications are different. This is because one cannot make a great, free photo image manipulator program and call it Photoshop. That's against the law. So you'll have to learn new, and sometimes strange names for what you want to do. There are websites online that list these for you.

Here is a short list.

You won't find Outlook or Outlook express in your Linux System. They belong to Microsoft. Linux email programs have names like Evolution, Thunderbird, KMail. They do the same thing, in much the same way.

For web surfing, instead of Internet Explorer, you'll be using Konqueror, Firefox, Opera, etc.

For Photoshop, Paint Shop Pro, MSPaint, and the like, the Linux versions are The Gimp, Kuickshow, Open Office Draw, showFoto, to name a few....

Adobe is still Adobe, for the most part. And Google also makes most of their stuff run on Windows and Linux. Including Google Earth. A great big tip of my hat to them both !

Instead of Microsoft Wordpad, notepad, Word, and Office, in Linux you can use Kwrite, Kate, OpenOffice and such. ( These are free, not another $300 on top of what you paid for being able to use ( or borrow ) the Microsoft Windows operating system you have, be it Windows 2000, ME, XP, Vista, whatever ). In fact, all the above Linux programs are all free. No strings. And you can share them with your friends and family too. Free. And they all get the job done. In fact, they all work great ! I find that many work better than their Windows couterparts. Amazing stuff !

So, after you figure out the new names, the rest will come to you in time. Just like it did when you first started working with Windows computers. Heck, I've been using Windows since 1994, and I am still learning the in's and out's of Windows quirks and hickups !

And speaking of learning about the operating system, be it Mac, Windows, or Linux, one thing to consider is that part of your purchase price for your Windows system is a year or so of "Tech Support". Tech support basically tells you how to do a particular thing or fix a particular problem over the phone or online. They teach you what to do. But after your free tech support time is up, you'll pay a good amount of money per minute to learn anything more from Microsoft Tech Support.

Most Linux "tech support" is online, and free. But, you'll have to learn where to look and how to search for the answers to your questions. Some Linux groups are friendly, and glad to help you and answer your questions. Some aren't so friendly. Most times, these folks have been online for a long time, years, helping and answering questions. And sometimes they just get tired of hearing the same question being asked day after day. It's like a new employee at work asking you what he has to do to even clock in - each and every day. That same question alone would drive you nuts ni a month or so. Especially if the intructions for clocking in were already written on the wall above the time clock. But the new guy just refuses to look for his own answers each day. That is why some groups of Linux folks get snappy when someone asks them a question. Because they know that the answer has been posted every day for years, if the person asking the question would just bother to look. At Microsoft, those guys get paid big money to answer your phone call, and answer the same questions day after day, and not snap at you. But if you think that they aren't poking fun at you when you can't see or hear them... then you're just fooling yourself.

So, If you have a problem or question about your Linux, the best and fastest way to solve it is to search for the answer yourself, without asking anyone. Because the chances are real, real good that someone has already had the problem you are experiencing, and has already asked the question you want answered. And if you just search for and find the answer right off the bat, you won't have to 'bother' anyone with a redundant question, and you won't have to wait for someone to see your question and answer you. Most Linux distibutions these days have built in links to get to their particular help forums. Then use the search boxes and try different ways of wording your search. And check several of the resulting answers. And, of course, Google is your friend.

The friendliest Linux help webpages ( forums, wiki's ) that I know of are Ubuntu, Mephis, and PCLinuxOS. Though even they will really appreciate someone who tries to seek out and search for the answer to their question before writing ( posting ) and blurting out a question that has probably been answered every day of the week since Linux began.

When you can't find the answer, and you need to ask a question, give as much information as possible as you ask your question. There are so many different things that relate to each other in a modern operating system, that asking a question like why doesn't my monitor show anything ? Is like writing a letter to you auto mechanic asking him why doesn't your headlights go on....

( He'll have to write you back and ask you did you turn the switch on ? Is the battery fully charged ? Is the car running ? Are the headlights the type that only go on after dark ? and was it dark out when you tried turning them on ? )

When posting a question in a Linux forum, try to let folks know what kind of computer you have, and monitor, if that is the problem, did you try checking the wires, even what kind of hardware is in your system might need to be discussed to find the right answer. ( there are plenty of free programs that will list and print out all of your computers hardware, everyone should have one of these :) Unless you are the just throw it out and get a new one if it stops working kind of a person.

In which case, I wish I lived next door to ya :)

So, Support wise, finding friendly help when you need it could be a big consideration when you are deciding which distribution to stay with. And keep in mind that most Linux users have more than one Flavor ( distribution ) of Linux that they have and use often. And so can You !

If you decide to try Linux, great ! Have fun with it and enjoy it. Take your time, find one you like. If you have a older, spare computer sitting around, use that to put Linux on and experiment with. Or several linuxes. :) You'll learn new stuff, and you'll end up with alot more personal ownership of your own computer, and the files you'll be putting on it..

And if you don't like Linux, that's great too ! It's all your choice. Windows and Mac does the same job, pretty much, and in the same way... pretty much. :)


I believe that RedHat started this thread ( discussion ) to make folks aware that there is a choice, and to make everyone aware of what choosing to try out Linux will entail. I hope I've helped add to the information available here :)

[Bruceslog]

P.S. - I almost forgot one more important option. One can always go to the Dell website and purchase a new Dell computer with Ubuntu Linux on it already.

You're paying for the new computer, and your only Linux options ( so far ) are Ubuntu and RedHat Linux, and I believe that you get regular Dell phone and online support for that Ubuntu Linux computer for a time.

Although Ubuntu Linux is free, Dell adds it's own stuff to it and charges for their stuff, and for a period of support.

*Walmart used to sell a version of Linux called Linspire on it's EMachines computer line... but I don't see it offered at Walmart.com anymore. Anyone know more about this ?



Update - Dell now offers more Linux options than I'd been aware of... They offer Ubuntu, RedHat, FreeDos, and Novell SuSE Linux Enterprise.

Dell Linux page...

http://www.dell.com/...=bsd&~ck=anavml

Dell Novell SuSE page...

http://www.dell.com/...=555&l=en&s=biz



Anyway, a new Dell computer with Linux already installed and running, with support, is another option for those who are ready to dive in to the Linux Operating System. I would try Linux out on a spare machine for free first, though, to be sure you like it, before I'd ever suggest that you go out and buy one of these :)

[rodent042]

Hey Bruce,
"Walmart used to sell a version of Linux called Linspire on it's
EMachines computer line... but I don't see it offered at Walmart.com
anymore. Anyone know more about this ?"
I ponder that same question occasionally. I had read a few months ago that Wal Mart was going to sell another linux system this Christmas. So, I went fishing this morning.
I found this: www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=7754614
A VIA chip?! This is GREAT! Get another competitor back in the market. A decade ago Cyrix may have not been a powerhouse but it put enough of a scare into AMD and Intel to drive prices down and gave folks a third affordable alternative. Wait a sec... I'm off the point here. The operating system, gOS, is a spinoff of ubuntu. I'm not positive why they dropped emachines with Linspire. If you search emachines site it would appear that, unless you have an exact model number, the Linspire incident never occurred. "eMachines recommends Vista" across the top of the page, no way to search their help database for free... seems like a Roswell cover-up lol!


Incidentally, these new Everex machines sold out online at Wal Mart in 48 hours and out of all stores within 2 weeks.

[RedRat]

Adama, thanks for the compliments. I have listened far too long to supporters of one "religion" or another (i.e., Mac, Windows, Linux, etc) who seem to have almost fervent religious zeal about their operating systems, basically wanting to "convert" users to one or the other. I have seen plenty of it in the newsgroups on Usenet. All operating systems have pluses and minuses. It was just my intent to try to be even handed.

I would say tht right now, the major problem with Linux distros has been installation and then subsequent modifications to the system. Most supporters of Linux, and the most rabid, are command line geeks. Now there is nothing wrong with the command line, but Linux has carried out some of the old Unix commands that are not exactly intuitive. Of course, once you learn the commands, the command line can be very efficient. Entering a long string of commands and switches (keeping in mind that Linux is sensitive to upper and lower case) where one wrong keystroke can put you off in never-never land, can get old. However, most of us have long grown accustomed to GUIs and the use of the command line is rather foreboding. I would hope that as Linux evolves that the developers replace the command line with a GUI.

The second major problem that Linux developers have is that they are first and foremost developers! These are people who really understand the Linux system but are a far cry from just ordinary humans, so to speak. Most of us do not want to become involved with the down deep inner workings of operating systems. Here Microsoft and Apple have an edge in that they can afford to run testing labs on their interfaces with the OS. Most of those working on the Linux development are individuals or small groups of individuals who tinker and get some feedback from us Linux users (at least I hope they do and take some of the criticism to heart). They certainly are not being paid on the scale of Microsoft engineers. Nevertheless, the open source community has made Linux evolve into a very robust and stable OS. Where it needs help is in the human interface.

[RedRat]

Brucelog: Thanks for the online references. Actually not a bad deal from Dell, although you can do slightly better building your own from scratch, maybe save yourself about $100 to $200 depending how you customize the machine. Dell's stuff is not bad, although several years ago they went through a rough patch. I am still debating buying versus building and these Dell prices are very tempting.

[RedRat]

GoneFishin: Here is an addendum to your discussion on Linux software equivalents:
http://www.linuxrsp..../table-eng.html

Although the table, I believe, is perhaps in need of updating, it is a good starting page.
Another page people may be interested in:
http://www.cnr.com/productGrid.seam

For Ubuntu users:
https://help.ubuntu....ionsEquivalents

[JimmyDahGeek]

>>I would hope that as Linux evolves that the developers replace the command line with a GUI.



Ouch I can't believe you said that. Maybe in addition to the command line, GUI equivalent, but don't do away with it. How would I get to vi? <g>

[RedRat]

I hope you are being facetious :-)

Seriously, my comments are directed at the Ubuntu developers so that they make Ubuntu much easier for the newcomer. Newcomers to Linux will be coming from the Windows and Apple-Mac world, and probably for 90% of them they have never used a command line in their lives. Microsoft does not even make the command prompt easily available to Windows users, it takes a bit of doing to find out that you have to type 'command' or 'cmd' in the Run box to get there. Even if they do, most do not know all the commands available. There is no way that these kind of people will ever be comfortable with Linux. Now I am not saying to get rid of the command line, never said that, just that I want a GUI option to it.

The attitude that I have run into in the newsgroups from the geek "I know it all" types always revolves around using the command line. This is their subtle way of scaring off newbies and of course showing their superiority in the process.

You must be kidding about vi--I hope :-) That is got to be the worst command line text editor in existence. I remember fighting it in my ancient old unix days--ugh! Actually, Ubuntu has a very good text editor so you really don't need vi, even emacs is better.

[JimmyDahGeek]

You can't compare the DOS command line to the Linux command line. Linux/UNIX (command line) is and has always been light years ahead of MS. The UNIX command line is extremely powerful. You can take the output from one command and pass it to another one with the |. You can slice and dice text files any way you want. You can sort it, search it, redirect it. If you learn the command line you would be amazed at what you can do with it. There is no way you could replace everything that can be done on the command line with a GUI interface. But I do agree with you, if Linux is going to gain ground on the desktop, it needs to be made easier (gui-fied) to attract the average user. But I sure hope they don't take the MS approach that the user is to stupid and doesn't need that functionality so they (MS) eliminated it or make it so difficult to find the user no longer wants to use it.

Oh and I wasn't kiding about vi. When in Windows I use gVim. I would rather use gVim then notepad. I can always tell when I've used notepad because there is usually a ":wq" somewhere in the file. ;-) vi is very powerful and makes it very easy to quickly edit files. But there is a steep learning curve and it definitely isn't for the average user.

[Bruceslog]

Hi Rodent042,

Great Info ! You must have had much more time for fishing on the WalMart website than I did to find that Everex Linux computer for sale ! It was well hidden ! I'm doubly surprised because I usually hear about such things as WalMart selling Linux machines on the many tech sites I read every week. Great Find Rodent ! I noticed that the reviews for that WalMart/Everex/Linux computer are mostly 5 star positive. ( All but one which was 3 stars ).

And I certainly agree about the pleasant surprise of finding computers out there with the Via CPU !! Via is very Linux oriented, and lately they are really leaning toward low power and ecologically friendly computing. I'm glad they are still nudging the market and reminding Intel & AMD that if they slack off... Via could jump right in and fill the void :)

And you also did a great job trying to pinpoint what happened to the WalMart/Linspire offering ! Thank You. It's sad that it apparently didn't work out for WalMart or Linspire, but I really do appreciate knowing the status of it, and I Thank You very much for digging into that and relaying the info here to us :) I'd have thought that with WalMart selling out those Linux based machines so so fast, ( within days ), that it would have been a huge hit for both companies and that they'd continue to offer those machines to folks :)

Hoping that you have a Great New Years holiday, as well as a great new year ahead :)

[Bruceslog]

Hi RedHat and Rodent042,

I only mentioned the Dell/Linux computers for those that want the support that comes with a Dell/Linux machine.

I wouldn't buy one myself, just because I build my own. ( I currently have 4 desktops I built at home, and will be starting a new one soon ). The only manufactered computers I own are my 2 notebooks. Hard to build a notebook computer :(

But I agree that the Dell/Linux machine prices are good. So I'm writing to let you know that, if you are considering purchasing a pre-built Linux computer, you have an even cheaper option than a Dell.

And Rodent042, this cheaper Linux computer runs on a Via chip in a Everex box, with a Gentoo based Linux operating system tweaked by Zonbu, the makers of the gPC Everex computers you found from WalMart !!

The Desktop model is subscription based for $99.00 plus $14.95 a month :) The notebook is subsription based for $279, or buy it outright for $479 :)

Now, I'm not much myself for subscription based computing, but if you look this deal over, it isn't bad at all.

( The subscription is for ( copy/paste quoted from the Via website ):

"But the monthly subscription is a key ingredient of the Zonbu experience. The hardware platform of Zonbu's devices may be impressive in their low power consumption and noise levels but it's Zonbu's commitment to a hassle free computing experience that should appeal to a broad market. The service includes:

* transparent upgrades of the operating system and applications
* Internet, chat and phone support
* storage of data with continuous back-up
* file sharing "

<un-quote>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To quote the majority of the product information from the Via website:

"But no report on the gPC was complete without mentioning that Everex were also planning to release a sub-$300 notebook running Linux in early 2008. They have already arrived.

Zonbu, the innovative start-up company that released their mini-PC in Q1 this year, will apply their own special Zonbu software, storage and maintenance experience to a 15.4" widescreen notebook manufactured by Everex. This release couldn't have come at a better time as Zonbu will be able to ride the wave of excitement and interest generated by the gPC.

At this time beta versions of the product are available for purchase. That probably means that Zonbu is still fine-tuning device support and other matters. Zonbu use a modified version of Gentoo Linux. They expect the product to be ready with a final version of the software in early 2008.

The $99 desktop Zonbu is not much bigger than a hard cover novel and sports 6 USB ports, a 1.2GHz VIA C7 ULV processor, VIA CX700 integrated graphics, 512MB of RAM and a 4 or 8GB flash drive. Storage of data is offered via monthly plans starting at $14.95, offering up to 100GB of space.

The $279 notebook is essentially the same, except that it features a 1.5GHz VIA C7-M ULV processor and a 60GB hard drive. With the Zonbu software only taking up 2GB of space, that leaves you with 58GB of local storage. This, combined with the CD/DVD burner, does it make it a slightly more flexible option than the desktop Zonbu. Zonbu's monthly subscription plans are still offered, at exactly the same rates as for the desktop Zonbu. Alternatively you can purchase the notebook outright with no ongoing plan, for $479.

But the monthly subscription is a key ingredient of the Zonbu experience. The hardware platform of Zonbu's devices may be impressive in their low power consumption and noise levels but it's Zonbu's commitment to a hassle free computing experience that should appeal to a broad market. The service includes:

* transparent upgrades of the operating system and applications
* Internet, chat and phone support
* storage of data with continuous back-up
* file sharing

Zonbu has also continued their commitment to being an environmentally friendly electronics providers: the Zonbu notebook draws a maximum of 15W, is provided in recycled packaging, can be returned for recycling at the end of its life and has received the Green Electronic Council EPEAT SILVER compliant award.

It's early days yet but there are four clear trends testing the waters here: 1) ultra-cheap mobile computing; 2) ultra-low power consumption; 3) custom Linux operating system preinstalled with open source software that provides a full range of applications needed by the average consumer; 4) the use of the Internet for data storage; and 5) remote access maintenance. All five things have been thrown into the pool before but never all at once. It will be interesting to see what sort of splash the Zonbu notebook makes.

We look forward to getting our hands on one as soon as possible."

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<Un-Quote>

Might be something new to consider, RedHat. Price is sure a good one. Might be a great deal for the kids/grandchildren too :) If nothing else, spread the word. Competition is always good, and it's great to see Linux and Via still being innovative and looking to shake the "big boys" up :) Maybe someone you know will want one, or will mention it to someone they know who might be interested, etc. These won't stay around long if they don't sell.

If you're opposed to the online storage, I'm sure you can put a bigger flash drive in it, or even a normal hard drive, or an external USB hard drive. Of course, the notebook already has a small hard drive in it. But at less than $15.00 a month, just the auto updates for the OS And the applications are not a bad deal. Add the online, phone and chat support, and data storage WITH backups, and it's a great price ! I know lots of folks who spend more than that each month on their online games !





So, more new options out there for folks pondering going to the Linux Operating System :) And even more heartening, more options from computer makers that include the support that many will consider when 'contemplating a switch to Linux' :)

[Bruceslog]

Rats ! ( No offense meant, Rodent042 ) I meant to post the link to the Via webpage that has the info on those Everex/Linux/Via/Zonbu computers.

Here is the link:

http://www.viaarena....5&ArticleID=544

Sorry bout that.

BTW, PCWorld, how come we have to deal with a popup window to paste a link or something ? Weird behavior. I ask because it is a bit of a pain to have to 'allow' a popup window in my popup window blocker, then switch tabs ( or windows ) to paste text into, then click Insert, just to do such a simple thing as pasting text/links.. what's the deal with that ?

And Pla-Lease don't ask me to universally allow popup windows from PCWorld, or anybody else, to save myself a moment of time or two. Popup blockers are built into all modern Web browsers for good reasons. Universally allowing popups runs totally counter to those reasons. So I'm just curious as to why you at PCWorld have gone that route within your forums here ?

Well, Happy New Years, all :) ( No matter which operating system you prefer :)

[rodent042]

Re: GUI for everything.

I'm sure you know this and its one of those things that we take for granted but to clarify for anyone new out there reading and wondering...

Like the semantics of calling a tower a cpu, linux itself is not a GUI. The gui is a series of programs and is only a part of the whole :-)






Linux is command line and will remain so for one big reason. The power cannot be paralleled in a GUI.






Xorg (the base program for linux GUIs) is just an overlay of the operating system. It allows you to use many different interfaces to access commands in a comfortable and familiar manner. There are also... jeez, I dunno at present count, 20 or so different interfaces that you can choose from and customize any way you see fit. KDE looks and feels like Windows. Gnome takes a different visual approach. FVWM, SAW and the list goes on and on. These are just programs that run on linux. They themselves are not linux. You can make your system look and act exactly like Windows or, if you think they got it all wrong, you can make it act however you want. The sky is the limit!






A gui cannot cover all possibilities of every command and remain intuitive enough to be useful. I love Gnome and KDE but I often need the warm glow of a gray cursor blinking at me on a translucent black background. Most people (when interfaces are better prepared for the "point-and-click" generation... and they are getting close) will never need to open a command box just as they don't use one in Windows now but power-users, geeks, nerds, whatever term you prefer will always use them. Once one gets things are up and running properly chances are the average Joe won't need a command line often, if at all. For my use the perfect world is a marriage of the two.




At present you will likely still need to type in a few commands while setting up a new system and you will need to re-learn where important options are located even within the GUI. It ain't "perfected" yet for the average Windows user. So... if one wants to play with linux one will have to accept this and learn a few commands and get a little dirty.

[rodent042]

"The Desktop model is subscription based for $99.00 plus $14.95 a month :) The notebook is subscription based for $279, or buy it outright for $479 :) "
Subscriptions?!? We don't need no steenking subscriptions! lol

Actually, I have to say not a bad deal at all for someone not tech savvy who wants to take it for a spin.

I gotta tell ya... I'm more than a little aggravated that it took as much searching as it did to find the Everex system. Even so, they appear to be catching on fast. I see they are available at Newegg as well. Some of the reviews there are painful and shouldn't be taken seriously. I detest misinformation.

I build my own systems as well but a quick search for preloaded systems brought up www.ibexpc.com

These systems don't look bad at all and are customizable to a fair degree.

[rodent042]

"BTW, PCWorld, how come we have to deal with a popup window to paste a link or something ?"

Right-click and paste seems to work unhindered. I agree that the ctrl-v override is a nuisance. Old habits die hard :)