[FenderGuy2112]

----------------------------------EDIT----------------------------------

Edit: One important thing I forgot to put in my original post was the case serial(s) and specs.


Model: LPMI II-TOWER GP6-450
Serial: 0012503706
MFG DATE: 1/13/99

The back of the case has the same "metal cut-outs" for the mice, usb, sound etc. in similarity to this case; (I'm only focusing on the metal ports where the mice, sound and usb (and other) stuff go in that picture). I have a question about my case with those ports; do any of those "metal cut-out" ports fit a VGA cable, or is that only with PCI/AGP graphics cards?

Sorry for the noobish question, and not putting this additional important information in the first time.

---------------------------------EDIT------------------------------------

First things first, the computer (I obtained at no cost :P) is a Gateway GP6-450 - which, in fact, has a review page right here on PCW! The computer when I got it was composed of:

* RAM - Hyundai 64mb DIMM
* Graphics Card - Ensoniq 3D Banshee 16mb (it's an AGP card)
* Power Supply - 200watt psu (could not locate the brand)
* Bays - DVD-ROM, Floppy, CD-ROM
* Mobo - Old Intel-based piece of crap
* CPU - Old Intel Pentium II (133mhz) piece of crap
* HD - None
* I have all additional parts i.e..: Cables, power cord, monitor... I'm just focusing on the interior
Okay, so I did throw a spare HD in there and my Ubuntu Disc to see if it would load right after I got the computer, and I could not even begin to tell you how sluggish it was. This is when the whole "Man, I have 300 dollars to spend, and PC World is there to help me if I have questions, this is going to be awesome!"....

This is the important part; I want to list all of the parts I ultimately have/need that are actually going to be in the computer, the parts that are the links are the ones I want to buy and the ones in black are the existing parts I have. Please critize or tell me anything I need to look out for with any of these parts (remember I'm a noob :D)

* Case - The Gateway Case from the gp6-450
* RAM - http://www.tigerdire...498&CatId=1554]
* Power Supply - 200-watt psu from the gp6-450
* CPU/Mobo combo- [http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3329278&CatId=14]
* Hard Drive - (primary) 40-gig IDE-Based HD, (secondary) 1.5-gig IDE-Based HD
* Operating System - Ubuntu Linux
* [Network Card
Note* I already have the (host) router on another computer in the house - it is a Linksys Wireless-G... they are compatible.
* Fans - I'm still looking for a case fan lying around the house, and I haven't found a cpu heatsink/fan yet either; are these nessasary to just get started with the computer?
Alright, I think that is everything (though I feel like I left out some information). I would really appeciate any input from anyone on my project.

Thank you, :D
FenderGuy2112

P.S: In case you were wondering I just want this computer to get up and running and stable as of now, I will upgrade it later; the main thing is that I want to make sure the parts are 100% compatible and I have everything I need to get started.

[art209]

Welcome to the build-your-own community. The motherboard selected does not appear to have any potential for future upgrades. I would suggest that you look for one that is more up-to-date with a pci-e slot to replace onboard graphics with a graphics card in the future, 6-8 channel audio, and a more current chipset to support a CPU upgrade. And yes, you need the heatsink/fan for the cpu up front since it is best to install the cpu and heatsink on the motherboard prior to installing the motherboard in the case. However, one thing to understand about the newer motherboards is that they often only support two IDE drives, so it would not be possible to install more IDE drives without an addon card. On the other hand, you need the SATA support for future upgrades.

[coastie65]

Hi fenderguy, First, I like your choice of MOBO and that is the base you will start with. Now there are two things that jump out and I think know what the very first is, :-) PSU. That should be no less than 500w, and I think that MOBO may be SLI capable, if so then you might want to consider 650w minimum in case you decide to go that route later on. The other is the HDD, 40 Gb, doesn't do it these days, you can fast run out of space, so would consider at least 160 Gb minimum. OOPS, I didn't check your case out, but I can only guess that you made sure the MOBO would fit OK. If this is a MOBO/Processor combo, then the heatsink and fan may come with it as well. If not, an Intel boxed processor comes with heatsink and fan. I will do some more indepth checking and see if I have anything new to add and good luck. Ok, I went and took a closer look at the MOBO and as art says you will definately need to get a heat sink and fan for the processor. I also noticed there was no Graphics upgrade options as there are no PCI-E slots as I first thought ( I didn't look close enough). Like art, I would recommend looking for a MOBO with at least one PCI-E slot. Also, you apparantly gave us the case # for the Gateway, I haven't been too sucessful in getting much there. It would probably be a little more helpful if we had the Model # of the computer. coastie65

[mphenterprises]

Hi FenderGuy. First, let me congratulate you on your impending build. Building your own computer is not only less expensive than buying a computer but you get the satisfaction of knowing that you can build your own computer. :D




Okay, since you indicating that you only want your computer up and running, I will not stress these next suggestions as much. First, a 200Watt Power Supply is the absolute bare minimum you should use. In my opinion, the minimum wattage of any Power Supply installed in a custom computer should be 450 Watts.

Also, are you sure you want to use TigerDirect for your purchases? I really do not see any good reviews regarding TigerDirect. If you want to use an online supplier, I highly suggest Newegg.

[coastie65]

Hi mph, I've used both and am equally satisfied with both as to service and price. I don't really pay any attention to the rebate stuff at TigerDirect as it is too much of a problem and the rebates aren't usually that much anyway, to worry about messing with. newegg tends to be a bit more informative though. coastie65

[rgreen4]

First let me join in with the others in congratulating you on you decision to build. There are several advantages. While I normally would not re-use a manufacturers case, this machine which you now describe in 2008 as a piece of crxx, in 1998 was top end and had a price of $2,500! Just shows how far we have come in 10 years.

Second - I agree with Coastie and MPH (no surprise here) on the PSU, 200 watts is not near enough, and on top of that, I think you will find the main power plug is 20 pin and all the motherboards in the class we are talking about (more on that later) are 24 Pin main power connector. Plus your old PSU does not have the required CPU power plug that came into effect with the Pentium 4 class CPU;s.

Next, although Coastie has not had problems with TigerDirect and I have not had any experience with them. The combo deal you list is an OEM bulk (hence the letter BLK at the front), which means the MoBo will not come in it's own box. The CPU is also OEM, which means it may or may not come with the heatsink and fan.

I will throw out the following for your consideration:

1. CPU - Intel E4550 Allendal Core2Duo Boxed Retail (w/Heatsink and Fan) $124.99 w/ Free Shipping.

2. MB - Gigabyte GA 945GCM-S2C Motherboard w/ 2 PCI slots and one PCIx16 slot (Micro size 9.6"x 7.6") uses 24 Pin connector. $49.99 plus $6.33 shipping - total $56.32.

3. Memory - Kingston Value Ram Dual Channel Kit 1GB (2 x 512MB modules) $24.99 plus $4.99 shipping for a total of $29.98. There are others in this same price range including GSkil and Corsair. I show the 2 module kit because you are using a Dual Core CPU on a dual channel MB. Both work better with two memory modules rather than one. I am going to assume (we all know what that does) that Ubuntu Linux also supports dual channel.

4. Power Supply - Antec EA430 Power Supply w/ 24pin main power connector. $59.99 w/ Free Shipping. This unit has a $30 rebate, but I am not counting on that in the pricing. If you order quickly and follow all the rules, you will get your check, but it takes 6 to 8 weeks. I have not had a problem with rebates, especially since most Newegg rebates are from the manufacturer. This is very similar to an Antec PSU I have that came with an Antec case and it served me fine. I was concerned about power with a C2D E6750, nVidial 8600GT video card, and 2GB memory along w/ 3 HD's, so I replaced it with a higher power Antec. You can buy cheap PSU's, but this is one area I will not experiment with manufacturers I have no experience with. A shot that goes pop in the PSU will take the CPU and MoBo with it.

The last item I have left for last is the wireless card. To this point, the total bill is $271.28. You have indicated in your post and with your Avatar that you intend to use Ubuntu Linux. Apparently you already have experience with this OS, and that is fine if it works for you. More power to you. However, there are documented inconsistencies with wireless adapters with Linux. You need to research this thoroughly before you commit to a wireless adapter. You listed the Linksys WMP54G wireless adapter and that is fine, but it is at the high end of cost. If you were running Windows, almost any wireless adapter will work well. I have an HP Media Center that has a wireless PCI card that has no name on it. It also has a CD for installation that has no name on the CD and not much in the way of drivers, as it used the XP drivers. I was able to download Vista drivers for it by letting Windows search for better drivers than the default ones in Vista.

That being said, just to demonstrate the price possibilities here is Eidemax EW-7128G 802.11b/g PCI card. It costs $23.49 with $5.29 shipping for a total of $28.78. It is a little different in that instead of a fixed antenna on the back of the PC, it has a small antenna on a short lead (similar to the one on my HP Media Center). The Linksys WMP54G by the way is $49.99 at Newegg with free shipping.

If this computer is going to be in the same room with the router, seriously consider using Ethernet, at least initially. If you are definite about the wireless, then post on the Linux thread and explore some of the other forums about which wireless cards do work and how you have to set them up. If you find a card that someone has easy success in setting up with Linux, go with that card.

The total with the Eidemax wireless is $300.06 from Newegg. They are good to work with, and when they say 3 business days, they mean it. Many times I come home to find a package waiting on me that is a day early, depending on where they ship it from. I recommended the Gigabyte board, because I recently build a machine with a Gigabyte board, and was impressed with their clear instructions, their website with very good information, including a list of memory modules certified to work which each of their boards. I have used in the past MSI (when it was still going by Micro-Star) and BioStar and have like both.

This has gotten a little long, but good luck to you and if you have any questions, or need help, remember the community is open 24/7 and someone is sure to be prowling the website since we have regulars from around the world.

[Knifeblade]

Hiya, FG,

You've already gleaned a lot of suggests/advice/info., so I just want to say for a noob { your words, and honestly, nuh uh!!!}, you laid out your request OP in a very complimentary and thought-out manner, with a full layout of what you have and where ya want to go!!!!!!!



My compliments!!!!!!!!!!!

[coastie65]

Oh Boy, rgreen is on a roll. When I grow up, I want to shop like him. coastie65

[art209]

Nice bit of shopping rgreen. How about a Pentium D processor www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116254 to save $25 toward the PSU? It's at least a fast as the E4550 Core2Duo.

[rgreen4]

Actually faster in clock speed, 3.0 GHz vs 2.2 GHz, but I think the E4550 from the numbers and tests of Pentium D's against the Core2Duo's show that the C2D is actually a faster processor at a lower clock speed. But the budget was $300 and I just squeaked in, depending on what he has to do in the wireless arena. Besides, 430 Watts should be enough for a mid-level board with integrated video and only 1GB of memory.
Coastie - Actually, shopping like this is not hard, just spend about 2 hours a night for 2 months on the Newegg site researching every combination and brand of MB when your not sure of what you want. You get real familiar with what's out there. I usually download manuals from the manufacturers website when I narrow down an item to 2 or 3, and then browse through them. I have done this on all my major ticket items over the past several years, including trucks, TV's, and motherboards. When I went on the Gigabyte site and they had a listing of approved memory modules it sure made my memory selection easier, on 2 of them showed up on Newegg at the time.

[VladTheImpaler1990]

ha ha dam well rgreen thats a long time spending on a computer every night hey. Well if i ever need help with buying a computer item you first on my list of helpers. :8}

[coastie65]

Hi art, in addition to what rgreen said, Those Pentium Ds also use a whopping 95w of power.



rgreen, Yeah, if I'd done my homework like that, I wouldn't have bought a GeForce 8400 GS and then turn around and buy a Geforce 8600GT because I got the wrong card for my purpose. coastie65

[rgreen4]

Coastie - to be honest with you, sometimes my decision is based on the financial sweet spot. For example when I was looking at video cards for my machine, I knew I didn't want an 8800 because: 1 - I didn't need that much video power and 2 - their just too damned expensive. The 8600 was just below them and a mid-range price.

I ran into a similar decision in the E6750 v E6600, the E6750 was the newer technology, but lower in price which threw me for a while. When I got comfortable with it, that's the one I went with it.

As far as the listing for this build, I have a machine which is currently a P3 running XP that I am going to rebuild and give to a good friend for his daughter. After reviewing these stats, I think thats the rebuild I'm going to do. I may have to add a DVD burner because I think the machine now has only a CD burner. This machine has been rebuilt before 3 years ago by me when I put a new case, and installed XP for my late sister. I got the machine back from her estate, and now it will go to it's third user.

[coastie65]

Hi rgreen, The financial end is always a consideration, at least for me. I like the idea of recycling the computer yet again. It works from a number of standpoints, which is good. I'm kinda looking at the E6850 for a build, but that is somewhere down the road for now, as the motivation is not there yet. The forum is definately giving me some good ideas though as to what I may want to do. I know I am definately going to go for a bigger system and memory bus for sure. I'm not really all that big on multiple HDDs and will probably just opt for a large capacity single drive. That is about as far in planning I've gotten except I'll probably stay with the 8600 GT for the time being as it is a pretty good board for the price. coastie65

[rgreen4]

Coastie - One interesting thing that Smax and I discovered about the Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3P boards we have is that it has dual controllers, so you can set up two different Raid arrays if you want. But, then its a fairly expensive board at $172 with delivery and being 12" x 9.6" demands a roomy case. I have not done it, because I already had the Networked Raid enabled NAS with two 500GB drives. It has room for two more, but I don't need that much storage. I do use one large 750GB Seagate to back it up (it currently has 5 or 6 backup copies on it), but would not want to use a large drive by it selft for data storage - the old all the eggs in one basket theory.

FenderGuy - we sorta hijacked your discussion for a while, but I am going to order the parts I listed to rebuild a machine. I will let you know how it came out.

[FenderGuy2112]

I Just edited the original post in case you didn't notice; I added the case information

Alright first things first, I would like to thank all of you so far on your input (art209, coastie65, mphenterprises, rgreen4, knifeblade, and VLadTheImpaler1990). I was really surprised to see all of your quantitive and quality-driven posts in such a quick manner, though I know I'm going to keep this thread going until I am done with my computer, I just want to start off on a good foot with you all by saying thank you.

rgreen4, your list is great ,(I went through it kind of briefly though), I am definately going to buy most (if not all) of those products you and everyone has recommended for me to use :D.

It seems everyone is still doing research along side with me on this (with recommendations + links), so I'm going to hold off on buying anything until everyone agrees on a final list (aka I'll put up the list with all of the links to the parts I need at the end and see what everyone thinks, and see if everyone agrees that the parts are, in fact, compatible with each other).

- Just taking things step-by-step here -

Thank you,
FenderGuy2112

[art209]

The CPU speed charts are a little confusing to me. The lower Core2Duo and the Pentium D have about the same performance using PCMark2005, but the Core2Duo runs away from the Pentium D using PCMark2006. Naturally, I was looking at the former. I have little to no experience with Intel processors since I can't afford them, so I was looking for an AMD solution with more bang for the buck at the mid speed range of CPUs. However, I could see nothing that could beat the great micro atx mobo you found rgreen, so the Intel makes more sense.

[FenderGuy2112]

I have another question that just came to mind (sorry for the double post; but I don't want to get things messy but editing so much).



I just looked at the mobo that everyone recommended me; and the back of my case does not look like the mice inputs, usb inputs, sound inputs, etc. will fit (because the new mobo has more usb ports and the sound/audio ports are in differnet locations).. Can I take out the "plate" that guides the that "guides" those motherboard components in place out of my case in general so that the motherboard ports can fit?

Hopefully I didn't make this question sound more difficult than it is,
FenderGuy2112

[art209]

A new motherboard should come with a new plate to replace the old one.

[rgreen4]

The generally accepted term for that plate is "back plane", and I believe was introduced with the Pentium class of PC's. Before the back plane concept, you had to put connectors in various holes in the back of the case and connect them to the MB with short wires with connectors. Some rear connectors were in standard position - primarily keyboard, as even the mouse was not yet universal (neither was Windows). Video and audio were generally on add-in cards.
Each retail MB comes with the back plane and various other cables and connectors, and most OEM board do as well, although I'm not certain all do.

Each new case also comes with a generic back plane, although for the life of me the only reason I can think it does, is to keep someone from cutting themselves on the bar edges until the MB specific back plane is snapped into place. It also serves the purpose of closing up the case in shipment. One of the "joys" of working with a new case is the removal of all the blank plates to enable the installation of the CD/DVD burner, any other front access device and all the add in cards.