[PCWorld]

Post your comments for $200 Linux Desktop Systems Are No Bargain here

[freedom]

freespire or linspire by any other name is a piece of crap, that being said, once these folks are introduced to linux and hit the forums on the net they will find that theres hundreds of choices when it comes to linux, they can if they choose try and use what works for them, they're not stuck with one operating system like the would be with windows, thats worth 200 bucks right there, and what do you mean you couldn't test the computers, cause your software only works with windows boxes, what were you thinking ?

[Janvl]

This is the worst review I have read in years. I have windows- and linux-machine at home and my wife jumps between them, is absolutely uninterested which OS, just uses OpenOffice, Firefox, Thunderbird etc. on both hardly noticing the difference.
Has this "journalist" any idea about IT? to me it does not seem so.
These machines are cheap, a bargain BUT it is not windows. That should be made more clear to the customers, that would be fair, but who is fair in business?

[Kilme]

Like the article says, the kind of people that shop at Sears and Wal-mart are not the kind of people that would understand Linux. In fact, even if I were to buy a PC from a retail store (which I never would, since building is much cheaper and better), I would never, ever, go to a place like Wal-mart. That's what Best Buy or Circuit City are for, although they'll try and strongarm you into buying more stuff. If someone really wants a cheap PC like that, without having to worry about Linux, they could buy the one, get the rebate, and spend the rebate on a copy of Windows XP.



I run Ubuntu on a laptop at home. It's fun to mess with, but I prefer XP for doing any actual work. I don't think the average computer user is ready for it yet. Maybe in a decade or so, when the average user isn't so computer illiterate (I don't mean that as an insult, but it's the truth).

[Janvl]

Maybe there is a diffence between the USA and Europe but in Germany Linux is a steadily growing phenomena.

This is because it is perfectly usable for average computertasks. In Holland the use of FOSS is even promoted

by the governement for all things considering governemental businesss.



Now I know changing is difficult but it has become far more easy since the last few years and if I consider

that my wife who is not at all interested in OS's even says that the linuxbox more reliable, has less problems with

all these antivirus, antimalware etc. etc. then I guess it is ready for the average user.

The category of people having trouble with linux are those that think themself to be a specialist by knowing how

to point and click in Windows and having no idea of real OS's with permissions like RWED, because due to

a greater security you must know what you are doing, not just doubleclicking setup.exe and brainless clicking

on Yes a dozen times.



And $200,- really is a bargain for a simple usable PC. Even if you might want to pay an extra $15,- for a better keyboard.

[chipbennett]

I am an ex-Windows refugee, living comfortably in the Linux world and using Kubuntu. I got my feet wet a year ago, dual-booting my older XP laptop with Ubuntu. A few months ago, I eliminated the safety net, giving my wife the XP laptop, and buying a Dell*buntu laptop for myself. (I promptly installed KDE, finding for my own needs/tastes to prefer it to GNOME.) Thus far, I have found only one thing for which I still require a Windows machine: programming my Logitech Harmony 880 universal remote. (And even that has work-arounds.) I am perfectly happy - and fully productive - using KDEPIM, Pidgin, Firefox, OpenOffice.org, Amarok, etc.


I do not understand the prevalent belief that Linux is not ready for "average" computer users. Granted, I will never get my parents to switch to Linux. They have used Windows for as long as they have been computer users; they are also retired, and don't care to spend their time learning a new OS or new applications.

That said, I don't believe my parents to exemplify "average" computer users. My wife better fits that description. Ninety percent of her computer time is spent in the browser - including web mail - and instant messaging. A very small percentage of her time is spent in office software. She is just as comfortable using Firefox as she is using Internet Explorer. She also uses OpenOffice.org without difficulty, for her word-processing needs.

In her case, the operating system underneath these applications does not matter at all. In fact, while we were out of town with only my laptop, she had no problems whatsoever working in Kubuntu.

She is the average computer user - and Linux is ready for her.

That said, I still don't believe that the Linux community at-large is ready for the "average" computer user. It is getting better, but a large gap still exists between the world of terminology such as bash/vim/grep/apt-get/etc. and the world of those who still sometimes confuse MS Windows and MS Office.

So, yes, some education is still necessary, but the "average" computer user is capable of receiving that education. Many in the at-large Linux community are also becoming better-educated in how to communicate with non-native Linux users.

Sometimes, I think our standards are just too low. My daughter will be raised to be OS-independent. She will know both Windows and Linux, and thus will have true choice.

[S3Indiana]

I've used Freespire on a number of desktops and laptops on a daily basis w/o any issue. How is Freespire less windows friendly when it operates more like windows (not MAC-like)? BTW CNR.com is Beta software, so one would expect issues until final release...

[rtfire1]

I am taking the first steps in to going linux. I have to say that it is a great os I am hoping at some point to dump the ms chains. one thing I hope that will happen soon is that there will be a directx for linux so I can play my many pc games. but a $200 pc is a great deal with any os.

[Kilme]

If you're just running Firefox and OpenOffice, then yes, Linux is just fine for most people. When I say the average computer user isn't ready for Linux, I don't mean they can't operate it, but that they can't do what they're used to. If someone wants to install software or hardware that isn't compatible, or doesn't have Linux drivers, there's usually some work looming ahead in the console. I'm sure most Windows users wouldn't want to do that. Now granted that if the less tech savvy user has someone close by to setup things for them, in your case you, then they can use Linux just fine. I'm not saying that people can't or shouldn't use Linux, but that there is a learning curve that most people simply don't want to bother with. People are comfortable with Windows, and it can be hard to wean them off of it.



For instance, right now I'm trying to install drivers for a wireless adapter in my laptop running Ubuntu. The company doesn't make Linux drivers, and the various wireless adapter Linux driver packages out there don't support my individual adapter. My one option is to run this program (can't remember what it's called, sorry) to take the normal Windows drivers, and convert them to Linux drivers. It is a pain, since, I'm still not completely used to the Linux console, but doable. Just little things like that would deter people from using Linux. It even works on me. I'm too used to Windows, so I use XP for all my work, gaming, etc. I use my Linux laptop occasionally if I just want to surf the internet or mess around. Plus, I can't really carry my desktop around now can I?



And I am glad that you're teaching daughter Linux as well. It's great to learn at any age. My grandparents worked for IBM all their lives, and I was raised to use DOS from age 6. Now granted, that I've forgotten most of it by now, but it sparked an early interest in computers that has given me a job today.

[Janvl]

@Kilme

How long did it take you to learn windows 3.11 coming from dos? I guess it took some time too, so take some time toe learn to handle Linux and as for drivers and installing stuff, XP can be a menace too. With XP home I cannot make my videocamera functioning on this machine, NO help from either MS or Sony. With Linux I got it to work in an hour with the help of one of the many forums.

I have been through CPM80 - DOS - Windows 3.11 - Windows XP pro, but compared with the big OS's like IBM's SPS for S36, OS400, RSX11, VMS, Mumps or digital Unix on DEC machines then Linux is nearer to the big ones.

If you install software on Ubuntu then there is a very very simple tool (I forgot the name, never use it), or Synaptic or Automatix they all install software without ever touching a commandline.

Wireless cards is still a problem, that is true but who is to blame? Vendors not delivering linux-drivers must face the consequences, I do not buy their stuff, I even took the trouble to let them know.

The basic problem is that new linux-users do not know where to get help but Ubuntu did a great job there so maybe better no gOS but real Ubuntu with a link to the userforum.

So Kilme, start learning!

[Kilme]

To be honest, I was using Windows 3.1 at the same time on our family's home computer, so I guess it helps that I used both. And I'm sure there are much easier ways to install those drivers, but I haven't found them yet. As I've read, wireless adapters are among the most tricky things to install in Linux, so I'm sure everything else isn't too bad. I know there are Ubuntu forums to go to, and I visit them occasionally. I've dabbled with Red Hat a little bit before using Ubuntu, and I like them both. Like you said, if I took the time to learn, I'm sure I'd become a Linux junkie like many others. If I ever have some time after I'm finished with school, I'll probably put more time and effort into Linux.



But oh well, I'll stop now, since I suppose I've dragged this thread off topic. :)

[KingAwesome]

I don't understand the author's reasoning at all. Because these machines don't run Windows, they're inferior? Then I guess an Apple Macintosh is inferior too. The hardware complaints are also pretty unsubstantiated. The only things the author critiques in depth are the keyboard, mouse, and speakers... these are peripherals, not components. And what does "cumbersome" mean in terms of the operating systems? I find a wool sweater to be cumbersome. But an operating system? I have no idea what this means. Ultimately, I think the author is missing the point and is completely biased. The author obviously tested these machines from the perspective that they would function just like a Windows machine made by a large manufacturer. How would these machines pan out for people who don't have access to those types of machines, like some of the lower-income people who shop at Wal-Mart who have never owned a computer? In sum, poor writing, poor analysis, and poor conclusions.

[Janvl]

@ Kilme,

try this, it works fine

http://www.getautomatix.com/

[Eric2]

These machines are perfect for the person looking for a $200 computer. They will surf the web, do email and chat, and use the word processor. They might also do digital photography. Mindlessly simple tasks with GNU/Linux. These machines a are far better choice for these people than ones running VISTA. VISTA needs far more computer (more expensive) to run adequately and needs to be protected from spyware, viruses and other malware (more sophistication than these people will have). The GNU/Linux boxes can get by without any protection, but will have will have up to date protection every few days if the owner clicks on the update notice.

It is nonsense to say GNU/Linux systems like Ubuntu/Kubuntu are difficult. They are different to use than Microsoft or Apple OSs, but no more difficult to learn or to switch to. I have had much more trouble trying to use a Mac than I did switching from Windows ME to Mandrake Linux (now Mandreva Linux). At the time I switched (2001) I was used to Windows and I was over 50 and I still am not the least bit geekish, though not for lack of trying. My father was over 80 when I set him up with a GNU/Linux box. He prefered it to Windows because he had less trouble and more success using the GNU/Linux system I set up for him. The most difficult thing with GNU/Linux is knowing to buy hardware based on the availablility of drivers, and even that has become a small issue.

[freedom]

Like I posted the other day, there are hundreds of choices when it comes to linux

for instance pclinuxos on installation will install all drivers and media codecs, when you first fire up the web browser you can instantly acess all muti media content

with out the use of third party installers. You might and I say might have to fiddle with your wireless if a driver has not been included in tthe kernel, this issue is getting better. What I love about Linux is choice, I don't have to be locked in to just one operating system, I can for free, try on many and find the right fit for me and my machine. Go here http://distrowatch.com/

you might want to check out dream linux, it's a very newbie friendly up and coming distro.

Also I might add, things in the linux world move very fast, what was it 7 years between windows xp and vista ? 7 years in linux life is like 70 years real time

[o0splitpaw0o]

Couldn't run would bench 6? That seems to be a world bench 6 problem since obviously it isn't cross platform. Time to stop waisting the cash.Why isn't world bench 6 not a bootable CD function. Wow what junk.

[mehensley123]

If you want windows, buy a pc with windows or build your own. As far as general users using linux, well why are retailers selling it? H'mm curious I wonder why Asus is selling so many ee notebooks.

[conreyt]

The error of this review is astounding. Cheap hardware, check. Got it. Now to the OS. Windows works one way, linux works another way. Why is this news? If my measure of how easy my linux box is to use is windows, of course it's going to fail.
Homage to google? These are what we call usable FREE applications. Apps that don't require a subscription. Does the reviewer call bloatware preinstalled on windows boxes from the big box retailers homage as well?
The author, alludes to being computer literate, complaining that linux is too hard because it doesn't look enough and act enough like windows. That's phooy.
What he fails to realize is that not being windows is a GOOD thing.
For the record, my parents, grandparents, and spouse all run linux, because someone set it up for them, If I'd have set up windows for them, that's what they'd use. But for the last two years they've had zero viruses, zero spyware.
And THAT is what people who don't understand security need.

[CDBaric]

The review was acceptable as far as the criticisms of the hardware goes - there were some issues that needed addressing.
The problem is with the unmerited slamming of Linux as the included OS.
I would like to ask the author when was the last time he tried to install Windows, either XP or Vista, on contemporary hardware? What did he do when he came up short a few drivers?
Here is the truth - The latest Ubuntu distros will install without ever requiring a driver hunt - this is especially true compared to VISTA where much contemporary hardware is NOT supported and may NEVER be supported, not to mention the horrible BLOAT and INEFFICIENCY.
Here you can get a reasonably fast, feature rich desktop (browser, email client, instant messaging, full office, multimedia) machine for $200 and the author wants to whine about all the Windows programs he can't buy and install.
GIVE ME A BREAK!
That is why the story got a thumbs down from me - TOTAL RUBBISH!
CD Baric

[rtfire1]

with the programs that are out there I can run my moms win 98 programs that will not run on xp 200 buck is a great buy. is microsoft paying for this bad review