[smax013]

rgreen4 said:

Yes, but wait until I get to my Vista machine and go through the steps again, or until Smax gets the chance to.

The reason is, that I think the new partition has to be deleted, then the Vista operating partion expanded, and then contracted again. If I remember correctly, if you just shrink the current XP volume, it will leave an unallocated space, with the XP volume between the new unallocated space and the Vista Operating volume which means that the Vista operating volume cannot be expanded. Kind of like a City cannot annex an area if another City is blocking it. A volume can only be expanded to an unallocated volume adjacent to it.

Give me a little bit...you have encouraged me to stop procrastinating on installing Vista on my new build. The other two drives (both Windoze XP boot drives) are disconnected and the Vista install disk is spinning up as I type. It should be installed in a little bit...

[Nugrl]

Good Luck! ;)

[rgreen4]

Here is a snip of my screen after clicking on Accessories. You can see "Snipping Tool" right after Run and right before Sound Recorder. If it is not there, Gateway may have left it out for some reason.



I will play with Disk Managment now, and post back, as I want to post this while the satellite is behaving.

[rgreen4]

Ok, I shrank the volume containing my Vista Operating System while it was active (XP will not partition the system drive), formatted the new volume (F:) and then shrank that. I then tried to expand the original OS volume (C:), but that option was grayed out. Here are snips of the process:

1. The default option of the amount to shrink is shown in the thrid line:





2. I changed the amount of shrinkage to 40GB





3. After the shrinking of Volume C:, the new unallocated volume shows up. I then clicked on New Simple Volume.


!http://forums.pcworld.com/legacyimages/
1!


4. I then formatted the new simple volume and the system assigned F: as the volume label.


!http://forums.pcworld.com/legacyimages/
1!


5. I then shrank this volume in turn - the new unallocated space is not adjacent to Volume C: and thus is not available for expansion of C:


!http://forums.pcworld.com/legacyimages/
1!


To restore the system to its normal state, you cannot delete the unallocated space, but you can expand the adjacent volume (F:) to include the unallocated space, and then delete that volume to make it unallocated. At that point you can expand the volume of the Operating System (C:) to absorb the unallocated space. You can then re-shrink the volume by the amount you want to dedicate to XP and then make it a simple volume and format it with the NTFS file system.

[Nugrl]

Well alrighty then. I will have to give that a shot, before attempting to install XP on the new partition. Although I still don't recall being given the option that you had to change the shrink size of the new partition. I don't know, maybe I was daydreaming when I did that and somehow missed it??? Oh, and as for the "Snip It" tool, ... nope, don't got it. I guess Gateway didn't think I needed to have it? So I will have to try working with the photobucket thing again to get it to post my image on here. sorry it took so long to get back to you, I was really busy all evening. But I will definitely try the resizing thing and see how that goes. So in your opinion, what size would you make the new partition to fit XP Pro, and this game that I know is at least 1 gig, and I am sure in time I will install a few other programs on that partition. I guess smax013 must have spent this evening playing around with the new Vista installation. I hope all went well! Ok, I will post back what happens when I do the resizing and expanding and shrinking again.

Until then..........

[smax013]

Nugrl said:

Well alrighty then. I will have to give that a shot, before attempting to install XP on the new partition. Although I still don't recall being given the option that you had to change the shrink size of the new partition. I don't know, maybe I was daydreaming when I did that and somehow missed it??? Oh, and as for the "Snip It" tool, ... nope, don't got it. I guess Gateway didn't think I needed to have it? So I will have to try working with the photobucket thing again to get it to post my image on here. sorry it took so long to get back to you, I was really busy all evening. But I will definitely try the resizing thing and see how that goes. So in your opinion, what size would you make the new partition to fit XP Pro, and this game that I know is at least 1 gig, and I am sure in time I will install a few other programs on that partition. I guess smax013 must have spent this evening playing around with the new Vista installation. I hope all went well! Ok, I will post back what happens when I do the resizing and expanding and shrinking again.

Until then..........

I did get it installed, but did not bother messing around with partition sizes since I saw that [~22087] had gotten home and already done it. I still have to figure out why TrueImage 11 won't clone the 80 GB drive with Vista on it. But, that is a whole other matter...



As to your Windoze XP partition size, I would suggest at least 30 GB. It will give you room if you decide you need it for more than just one game. You could probably get away with 20 GB, but a little more would likely be wise.

[Nugrl]

Ok, I now have a new smaller 50 gig partition to install XP Pro on. I followed rgreen4's instructions to a "T" and wow, was that easy to do. Thank you for the step by step on that. Now I have to go into the bios and change that RAID to IDE, and try to install XP Pro again, and see if I still get the BSOD. hopefully not. It may take me a little time to get back to you on here , because dont' forget, even if I get XP Pro to install, I have to fix the boot loader so I can dual boot with Vista. I'll post back with my results.

[Nugrl]

nope, no go......... I went back into the bios, changed the RAID to IDE, rebooted, and got a BSOD on that setting, so I went back into the bios again, left it set to IDE, changed the NATIVE to LEGACY, ( not being sure what to try next), and nope still same thing, BSOD. so I rebooted again, went back into bios, put everything back to normal IDE to RAID, and LEGACY to NATIVE, rebooted, had to run some startup repair thing, restarted again and now I am back to my desktop on Vista. any other ideas? apparently this system only wants to run right under the RAID settings??? ?:|

[rgreen4]

Nugrl said:

nope, no go......... I went back into the bios, changed the RAID to IDE, rebooted, and got a BSOD on that setting,

Now was that on an attempt to install XP or the normal Vista boot?

[Nugrl]

that was on the normal vista boot. I thought after I made the changes in the bios I would just try to boot to vista 1 more time, before I attempt the install of XP Pro again, and thats what happened. why? is that normal? I have yet to put that xp pro cd back in yet and attempt another installation.

[rgreen4]

I just wanted to make sure as you had mentioned have to make a boot repair on the Vista volume. I know that if you have that setting to IDE and install Vista and then change it to Raid or AHCI that it will blue screen. Vista in order to keep the installed size as small as possible, only installs the drivers it needs, so if it sees it does not need the Raid/AHCI drivers, they are not installed, then when you enable it - no drivers and blue screen. In fact Jon Jacardi ran into that on the PC World Dream PC.

I will try my Media Center when I get home and see if I encounter the same problem in reverse. I would have thought with turning that off it would boot ok.

One more question - do you know if your DVD drive is IDE or SATA? I'm thinking that if your DVD drive is SATA (as mine is) then, there are no IDE devices installed, and hence there maybe no IDE drivers loaded for Vista for the reason I stated above. In fact, my Media Center has no IDE connection on the motherboard.

[Nugrl]

believe it or not, I don't know what the dvd drive is, sata or ide, because I have not been inside this tower since it was brought home at christmas. so I guess I will have to have a look see and just see whats in there.

[smax013]

rgreen4 said:

I just wanted to make sure as you had mentioned have to make a boot repair on the Vista volume. I know that if you have that setting to IDE and install Vista and then change it to Raid or AHCI that it will blue screen. Vista in order to keep the installed size as small as possible, only installs the drivers it needs, so if it sees it does not need the Raid/AHCI drivers, they are not installed, then when you enable it - no drivers and blue screen. In fact Jon Jacardi ran into that on the PC World Dream PC.

I will try my Media Center when I get home and see if I encounter the same problem in reverse. I would have thought with turning that off it would boot ok.

One more question - do you know if your DVD drive is IDE or SATA? I'm thinking that if your DVD drive is SATA (as mine is) then, there are no IDE devices installed, and hence there maybe no IDE drivers loaded for Vista for the reason I stated above. In fact, my Media Center has no IDE connection on the motherboard.

This is what [~22087] is talking about in terms of installing Vista with the IDE mode engaged and then changing to RAID or AHCI. It is possible that it might work the same way...i.e. if you install WITH RAID/AHCI enabled, then turning it off might BSOD you if you don't disable the AHCI driver. I don't know, but it is possible.

[Nugrl]

Ok, let me try to explain myself better. This computer was bought, with Vista home premium installed on it, I now want to partition that 500gig hd that it came with, and dual boot XP Pro. There is only 1 hd installed internally. I do have a 300 gig external hd on this same system. So as far as the bios settings. I did not do that, it must have come with the RAID controller drivers installed, and I tried to switch it to IDE, and reboot into Vista, and thats when it BSOD on me again, even without trying to install XP Pro. I just wanted to see if I could get back to my Vista desktop, with it set to IDE, and apparently I can not. Am I making any sense to you? So needless to say, I went back into the bios, like I said before, and switched it back to RAID, and NATIVE instead of IDE and LEGACY. and now I am able to get back to my desktop in Vista. but let me explain that also. when I first switched it to IDE, it was also still set a NATIVE, and it BSOD'd on me. so I went back in, and left it set to IDE, and switched the NATIVE to LEGACY, just to see what that would do, and once again., it BSOD'd on me, now mind you this is all just in an attempt to get back to my desktop on Vista and NOT trying to install XP Pro., But since that didn't work and let me boot up to my Vista desktop, I went back in and changed the IDE back to RAID, and the LEGACY to NATIVE. geeze......... I am starting to confuse myself, so you guys have to be lost by now. ;

[smax013]

Nugrl said:

Ok, let me try to explain myself better. This computer was bought, with Vista home premium installed on it, I now want to partition that 500gig hd that it came with, and dual boot XP Pro. There is only 1 hd installed internally. I do have a 300 gig external hd on this same system. So as far as the bios settings. I did not do that, it must have come with the RAID controller drivers installed, and I tried to switch it to IDE, and reboot into Vista, and thats when it BSOD on me again, even without trying to install XP Pro. I just wanted to see if I could get back to my Vista desktop, with it set to IDE, and apparently I can not. Am I making any sense to you? So needless to say, I went back into the bios, like I said before, and switched it back to RAID, and NATIVE instead of IDE and LEGACY. and now I am able to get back to my desktop in Vista. but let me explain that also. when I first switched it to IDE, it was also still set a NATIVE, and it BSOD'd on me. so I went back in, and left it set to IDE, and switched the NATIVE to LEGACY, just to see what that would do, and once again., it BSOD'd on me, now mind you this is all just in an attempt to get back to my desktop on Vista and NOT trying to install XP Pro., But since that didn't work and let me boot up to my Vista desktop, I went back in and changed the IDE back to RAID, and the LEGACY to NATIVE. geeze......... I am starting to confuse myself, so you guys have to be lost by now. ;

That is exactly what I understood things to be.



The reality is that in order to install Windoze XP, you will either 1) have to run the computer in that IDE emulation mode or 2) get the ACHI drivers for Windoze XP for your computer/motherboard and installed then during Windoze XP installation. Now, it appears that Vista does not like the IDE emulation mode as is. I don't know for sure why that is, but I was guessing that it might be due to the fact that Vista was installed with ACHI active (not IDE mode) and thus is somehow getting "confused" by switching IDE mode on now. I don't know if that is possible or not...but I do know that the reverse is possible...i.e. if you install Vista with the ACHI mode turned off (i.e. in IDE emulation mode), then the ACHI drivers DON'T get installed and if you later turn on the RAID or ACHI mode, it will NOT work. Thus, I am guessing that the reverse might be true. If so, then if you wanted to run in IDE mode, you might have to reinstall Vista with it running in IDE mode.



If you don't want to mess with that, then your only option would be to see if you can track down an ACHI Windoze XP driver for you computer/motherboard and try to use the F6 key to install those drivers while installing Windoze XP.



I hope that makes sense.

[rgreen4]

Nugrl, Smax - as previously discussed, a reference pointed out that Vista only loads the drivers it needs when it is installed. I just went into the BIOS of my Media Center which has the default BIOS position for SATA mode as "Raid". I changed the setting to "IDE" and it refused to boot. Since it was set (default) to reboot on error, it just cycled until I stopped it. Changing that setting back to "Raid", it booted normally.

Now this machine has an SATA CD/DVD drive and no IDE connection. In fact, many OEM motherboards no longer have IDE connectors, so Nugrl, with what you have posted, I would say there is a very high probability that your CD/DVD drive is also SATA and that you have no IDE connector, and thus your system does not have the IDE drivers installed.

What complicates matters is that your system, like all new systems, does not have a Vista install disc, it has a recovery disc and probably a recovery partition. Most likely all they will do is restore your system to the factory shipped condition. That is - no IDE drivers.

As I see it, you have five options -

1. Run the machine as is, as stricktly a Vista only PC

2. Acquire a legal copy of Vista, and reinstall Vista from scratch after resetting the BIOS to IDE. This would entail backing up all your data, and reinstalling all your programs from their original install discs. Any applications shipped with the PC would have to be re-acquired if a commercial application, or downloaded if freeware or shareware. Then re-partition the HD and install XP as a dual boot.

3. Change the BIOS, and attempt a repair of your Vista installation from the recover partition or disc. I would most certainly back up all the data and make sure that I had secure copies of any downloaded programs and the install disc of pruchased programs. I am not sure how successful this option would be, and if prepared for failure and having to completely restore the HD to the original condition, would have you prepared if it came to that and pleasantly surprised if it did not.

4. Attempt to find the XP drivers for the controller chip and install them during the XP installation process. If your MB has a floppy connector, and if you have a floppy and cable, and if you can find the drivers, then this option is viable. The drivers MUST be installed by floppy at a certain point during the XP install, and the call for the driver installation is called for by keying the F6 option early in the XP installation. These drivers cannot be added later (I have tried that in my triple boot machine - Vista, XP, W2K).

5. Locate all the XP drivers for the hardware for your machine, except the AHCI controller chip, reset the BIOS to IDE and install XP only. Of course like several of the previous options, it would require the full back up of all data, and preparing for a clean install.

Nugrl - now you know why Smax and I build our own machines now.

[smax013]

rgreen4 said:

Nugrl, Smax - as previously discussed, a reference pointed out that Vista only loads the drivers it needs when it is installed. I just went into the BIOS of my Media Center which has the default BIOS position for SATA mode as "Raid". I changed the setting to "IDE" and it refused to boot. Since it was set (default) to reboot on error, it just cycled until I stopped it. Changing that setting back to "Raid", it booted normally.

Now this machine has an SATA CD/DVD drive and no IDE connection. In fact, many OEM motherboards no longer have IDE connectors, so Nugrl, with what you have posted, I would say there is a very high probability that your CD/DVD drive is also SATA and that you have no IDE connector, and thus your system does not have the IDE drivers installed.

What complicates matters is that your system, like all new systems, does not have a Vista install disc, it has a recovery disc and probably a recovery partition. Most likely all they will do is restore your system to the factory shipped condition. That is - no IDE drivers.

As I see it, you have five options -

1. Run the machine as is, as stricktly a Vista only PC

2. Acquire a legal copy of Vista, and reinstall Vista from scratch after resetting the BIOS to IDE. This would entail backing up all your data, and reinstalling all your programs from their original install discs. Any applications shipped with the PC would have to be re-acquired if a commercial application, or downloaded if freeware or shareware. Then re-partition the HD and install XP as a dual boot.

3. Change the BIOS, and attempt a repair of your Vista installation from the recover partition or disc. I would most certainly back up all the data and make sure that I had secure copies of any downloaded programs and the install disc of pruchased programs. I am not sure how successful this option would be, and if prepared for failure and having to completely restore the HD to the original condition, would have you prepared if it came to that and pleasantly surprised if it did not.

4. Attempt to find the XP drivers for the controller chip and install them during the XP installation process. If your MB has a floppy connector, and if you have a floppy and cable, and if you can find the drivers, then this option is viable. The drivers MUST be installed by floppy at a certain point during the XP install, and the call for the driver installation is called for by keying the F6 option early in the XP installation. These drivers cannot be added later (I have tried that in my triple boot machine - Vista, XP, W2K).

5. Locate all the XP drivers for the hardware for your machine, except the AHCI controller chip, reset the BIOS to IDE and install XP only. Of course like several of the previous options, it would require the full back up of all data, and preparing for a clean install.

Nugrl - now you know why Smax and I build our own machines now.

There is a potential 6th option...switch into the IDE mode for the installion of XP...install XP. Then when you boot into Vista, you will have to FIRST go into the BIOS and set it to the ACHI or RAID mode and then select to Vista boot option. When you boot into XP, you would have to first go into the BIOS and set it to IDE mode and the continue to boot into XP. Kind of pain in the rear...but it might work.



And I have "encountered" this issue somewhat even with building my own machine. I would like to run in RAID mode for the ICH9R chipset so that I can take advantage of a second RAID array. But, since I did NOT plan for that when I installed XP (was not aware of the issue at that point), I did not install the drivers for it when I installed XP. As a result, I cannot engage that mode without a BSOD...unless I decide to re-do my XP installation, which I am not too inclineded to do at this point...I don't need the second RAID array that badly. I will also note that I DON'T have a floppy for this computer (I suppose I could "borrow" the floppy drive from my old P3 computer...or just buy a floppy if I really want to do it).



But, buidling your own computer does have advantages...such as actually getting all the install disks (although, I believe that Dell does still ship actual install disks as well as a recovery partition on the hard drive) and have MUCH more control over things.

[Nugrl]

so much to think about....... I am going to have to ponder this, as to which course of action I want to proceed with. I think I said before, at this point its not even about getting this game installed on XP, but the simple fact of just being able to partition this hd and dual boot it with XP. So I am not sure what I will do now. Is it all really even worth it? aside from the learning experience, which I usually don't mind. I just didnt' want to mess with formatting already, seeing as how this system was just bought for christmas, and I really didn't want to have to "fix something that isn't broke" if ya know what I mean. If you look at the step by step guide that I posted the link to in my first post on this topic, you will see there is no mention in there about running into this problem. So apparently an install like this is possible????? Just not for me...... :| dont' think I am giving up yet though, I am just taking a few minutes to think about this next step.

[smax013]

Nugrl said:

so much to think about....... I am going to have to ponder this, as to which course of action I want to proceed with. I think I said before, at this point its not even about getting this game installed on XP, but the simple fact of just being able to partition this hd and dual boot it with XP. So I am not sure what I will do now. Is it all really even worth it? aside from the learning experience, which I usually don't mind. I just didnt' want to mess with formatting already, seeing as how this system was just bought for christmas, and I really didn't want to have to "fix something that isn't broke" if ya know what I mean. If you look at the step by step guide that I posted the link to in my first post on this topic, you will see there is no mention in there about running into this problem. So apparently an install like this is possible????? Just not for me...... :| dont' think I am giving up yet though, I am just taking a few minutes to think about this next step.

I fully understand the whole "don't fix what ain't broke" bit. That is precisely why I am not too inclined to re-install XP with the ICH9R (ACHI/RAID) driver just so that I can setup a second RAID array (my motherboard supports two different RAID arrays using two different chipsets...the one is already up and running, so I have my RAID 1 array for data setup and running...I can live without the second one).



As to the guide, it likely "assumes" that you would either not need to worry about special drivers or know how to handle them as part of a regular XP or Vista install. Plus, I will note that this is an issue that has caught a lot of people unaware. As [~22087] noted, it was an issue that popped up in the PCWorld Dream Computer build.



The point is that it is a newer chipset that is NOT included by default in the XP install, but is with Vista. As such, it will be a problem for XP installs when it is newer hardware that has this chipset and the chipset is activated.

[spirobulldog08]

Well fellas I think I'm gonna join in this conversation. I think this guy is my distant relative or something because the problem he's having is the exact one I'm having with my Gateway as well. It's the exact same model, it was purchased as a Christmas present and I'm also trying to install Windows XP and have tried every single thing previously mentioned in the prior three pages before I came here. Now I'm in the same situation and I don't have a clue what to do and am currently looking over the five choices mentioned earlier. I have everything backed up I just don't feel like working all night on this if it doesn't work the first time. I'm also going to clear something else up. Our model -the GT5628- does indeed use an IDE CD/DVD drive. So now that I'm caught up I'll continue to experiment around and see if I can get anything to work without actually uninstalling Vista first. I was really hoping there was a solution to this here :(