[Nugrl]

Not to worry, I haven't forgotten about this. I keep thinking about this in the back of my head, but since nothing was working, I decided to take a break from it for a bit. But now that we have spirobulldog08 in on it and he has the exact same Gateway model that I am dealing with, perhaps we can work on this together......??? so....... spirobulldog08, if you get any further with yours than I have, PLEASE let us in on your secret!!! ;)

[spirobulldog08]

Update:
I read in a place to integrate the SATA driver into a Windows Disc and install XP with that disc. Well I tried that and I am not sure whether it is the reason for this new message I get or not but here is the story. I used nLite, a program I read about on the internet and downloaded a few months ago, to integrate the Gateway SATA driver into a Windows XP disc. When I downloaded the driver it came as an exe and when you execute it, it expands inside a folder with a funky name of letters and numbers. Inside the folder is a few more folders and files, some of which are 32-bit and some that are 64-bit drivers. It warned against using 64-bit installers but there's really no way of telling which is the 32-bit driver and which is the 64 because there are so many different, weird filenames. I don't know which files are drivers and which are random crap that comes in the download. So I'm going to have to say I have changed my view of Gateway. Their computers, downloads and everything else seems to be overly complicated and annoying. Anyway, what happened is, I went ahead and used nLite to integrate the entire root folder after using the exe to launch it. (I launched the exe under direction of a website, I have not tried to just integrate without opening the exe. The directions were to open the exe and then integrate the driver inside. This may be different with Gateway and other models but I haven't tried yet, feel free to lol) When I finished integrating that whole folder and again trying to install Windows XP, I changed the BIOS settings to "Sata as <IDE>". Then when it was loading the drivers it paused on a page that said this:

"Setup was unable to load support for the mass storage device you specified.Currently, setup will load support for the following devices.

<none>

1. To specify additional SCSI adapters, CD-ROM drives, or special disk controllers for use with Windows, including those for which you have a device support disk from a mass storage device manfuacturer, press S.

2. If you do not have any device support disks from a mass storage device manufacturer, or do not want to specify additional mass storage devices for use with Windows, press ENTER. (Which continues loading drivers and eventually leads to another blue stop screen aka BSOD)"

If you press S it says I have no floppy drive to load OEM driver. So either way it's a catch and you'll eventually get a BSOD. I even tried what you did by changing to IDE and Legacy in the BIOS. Legacy was the only thing I hadn't already tried, and it still gave the same results as you had. So I'm thinking if we can figure out which one of those files/folders we're supposed to let nLite integrate into the Windows disc then we'll have the true results of whether that idea works or not. If we determine that that doesn't work then it's back to the drawing board and more forums LOL! Good luck I'll keep working too.



EDIT:

Just in case this thought runs through anybodys head, I'm a student at school and I do a lot of their computer work and have aquired several hard drives to test this idea with. I actually tried a few months ago to put in an IDE hard drive into both the different ends on the IDE cable that was intended for the CD/DVD drive(s). I messed around with the different jumper settings too. Unfortunately there is only ONE IDE slot in the motherboard so I couldn't try and change from Master to Slave port because it's simply not there to change lol. But that was to no avail either. I'm thinking about trying it again because I can't remember if I actually disconnected the SATA HD from the system. I'm not sure whether it would make a difference because it may still need the SATA driver due to having SATA ports in the motherboard itself. If I'm wrong about this let me know but that's what I think anyway. Believe me, I've jacked around with this thing just about every way I can think of and I'm actually tired of making so many Windows Discs lol. I now have about 5 different Windows Discs at my disposal lol. Good luck once again guys.

[spirobulldog08]

Update:

I feel like an idiot now, the message I told you about...

Quote

"Setup was unable to
load support for the mass storage device you specified.Currently, setup
will load support for the following devices.


<none>


1. To specify additional SCSI adapters, CD-ROM drives, or special disk
controllers for use with Windows, including those for which you have a
device support disk from a mass storage device manfuacturer, press S.


2. If you do not have any device support disks from a mass storage
device manufacturer, or do not want to specify additional mass storage
devices for use with Windows, press ENTER. (Which continues loading
drivers and eventually leads to another blue stop screen aka BSOD)"

was actually just from pressing F6...So now I'm back to the drawing board after trying to download the driver itself from Intel rather than Gateway seeing as how it's an Intel driver anyway. But that failed also. I'm not exactly sure what I can do but I'm afraid Gateway is the only answer to our problem and they WILL NOT answer me. I've called them multiple times and demanded answers but they always come at me with this "We don't support dual-booting and we can't help you until we have tested and support it." So I've decided I'm going to look for options to send it back and get my money back or just selling it and buying my own and building it. I'm through with Gateway and I hope that this teaches us all a lesson. I listened to my friend and changed my opinion of Gateway, but now I am sorry I did, I didn't like them to start with and now I don't once more. I'm not sure how we are going to solve this problem but I for one am going to look at other options. I'm not giving up on fixing it but I'd rather just trade it in. I'm tired of all the hardware problems and blue screens I get for no reason at all. I'm also tired of the random speeding up of my fans and all of a sudden crashing and rebooting. It takes place in about 10 seconds, my fans speed up and are really loud and then it's just gone. If i let it go it continues that cycle every hour, on the hour. I let it go through 4 cycles once and it was on time every single time. Anyway, if I find anything out I'll repost but I've given up this time. Gateway computers are a joke and Windows is ignorant for not supporting SATA in their SP2 and SP3 (Both of which I have tried).

Good luck Nugrl and if I find anything I'll definitely post.

[rgreen4]

In your post of the 27th, you said that you only had one IDE port so you couldn't test Master and Slave. IDE ports support two devices attached to a single cable. Each device must be designated either a Master or a Slave either by the jumper setting, or if using an 80 wire cable vs. the older 40 wire, the connector to which it is connected (the jumper on the device is then set to CS for Cable Select).

SATA devices on the other hand are one device to one port connected with a cable with only two plugs, one for the controller port and the other for the device.

Windows does support SATA drives in XP, and in Windows 2000 as well, but not the AHCI/Raid configuration, and that is the rub. If you can set the controller to IDE and install Vista from scratch, you can then also install XP from scratch. But this requires a Vista install disc, not a recovery disc. If you are installing XP only, and can access the setting in the BIOS, then simple set the Raid/IDE setting on the controller to IDE, and install XP.

If you cannot change the setting on certain laptops (as I cannot), then you must install the AHCI driver with the F6 option of the XP install process, and then you have two problems, 1) getting the correct driver, and 2) using a floppy disc to install on a PC that has no floppy. This is not a problem for me as I was ddoing it as an experiment as I'm perfectly happy with Vista.

Those who build their own computers and install the OS from scratch are in a better position than those attempting to modify a manufactured machine, which are always less customizable to reduce the number of tech support calls.

[spirobulldog08]

rgreen4 said:

In your post of the 27th, you said that you only had one IDE port so you couldn't test Master and Slave. IDE ports support two devices attached to a single cable. Each device must be designated either a Master or a Slave either by the jumper setting, or if using an 80 wire cable vs. the older 40 wire, the connector to which it is connected (the jumper on the device is then set to CS for Cable Select).

I know. what I meant was, in older computers that have only IDE you have your "IDE 1" and "IDE 2" or some call them "Master" and "Slave" so in effect what you have is 4 different settings, "Master master," and "Master Slave" for the hard-disks and "Slave Master" and "Slave Slave" for the CD-drives. I've actually seen it called that and that's where I got it. But the way I had to hook it up was with the HD set as Master and replace the CD drive just to see if it would work at all. I actually went through all the jumper settings and got the BSOD on every single attempt. I even unplugged the SATA HD altogether and still got the BSOD so I'm really stumped about that one.

[smax013]

spirobulldog08 said:

I know. what I meant was, in older computers that have only IDE you have your "IDE 1" and "IDE 2" or some call them "Master" and "Slave" so in effect what you have is 4 different settings, "Master master," and "Master Slave" for the hard-disks and "Slave Master" and "Slave Slave" for the CD-drives. I've actually seen it called that and that's where I got it. But the way I had to hook it up was with the HD set as Master and replace the CD drive just to see if it would work at all. I actually went through all the jumper settings and got the BSOD on every single attempt. I even unplugged the SATA HD altogether and still got the BSOD so I'm really stumped about that one.

FWIW, I have typically seen the two IDE channels referred to as the Primary channel and Seconday channel. And then each channel has a Master and a Slave. I have never seen the two channels referred to as the Master channel and Slave channel. Not that it really matters...just sayin'.

[Nugrl]

I agree with smax013. I always heard it refered to as a Primary and Secondary, but none the less. I am jumping back in on this discussion, just give me a few minutes to pump some caffeine into my body!!! ;) gotta wake up first........

[rgreen4]

I have to go with Smax on this, Primary and Secondary. Unfortunately, most MB manufacturers labeled the connections as IDE1 and IDE2, it would have been better if they had labeled them Pri and Sec, but that water under the bridge. Also CW (conventional wisdom) recommended that you not connect two HD's to the same cable, not that they won't work as they will, just performance issues. If reading and writing to two devices on the same cable, it was slower than reading and writing to two devices on different cables (the PC version of rush hour traffic).

That being said, many manufacturers configured their machines so that all hard drives were on one cable and all other devices were on another. But now that most MB's have only one connector (if any at all) renders that point moot as well.

Of course this does not get us any closer to a solution to the original problem. As I have said, if you have the drivers (BTW I looked on the Intel site and was unable to find them) and have a floppy drive available, then you can install the drivers when installing XP. Some machines still have a floppy connection, my HP Media Center has no IDE connectors, but does have a floppy connector, but no place in the case to put a floppy. Probably for support personnel.

I have been known to run a machine without the side panel for months at a time and for part of that time with a drive hanging out the side. Usually a HD I'm cloning, testing or whatever. I don't recommend that, but my machines are in a protected area and the devices are not likely to be hit. If you have a floppy from an older machine and a floppy connector on the MB, you can try that.

The only machine that I have sucessfully installed Vista and XP both has the Raid/AHCI setting at IDE, and was so during the Vista install. The OS's are on different drives and I use the boot device menu to select which one I want. It is primarily a Vista machine (99% of the time) and an XP machine when I want to try something in XP. I also have a drive with Windows 2000 set up for this machine, but currently not in the machine. The machine will be reconfigured this weekend and the W2K drive will be re-installed.

BTW, if you choose to do a new clean install of Vista from a Vista install disc, not a restore, I believe the easier path to installing both on separate partitions is to install XP first and then Vista as Vista being the newer OS will recognize all the XP settings, but not the reverse. If installing on separate drives, be sure to install when only the current drive is in the machine. You can then connect the other drive after install. This keeps the second OS from seeing and altering the boot record of the first on the other drive.

[spirobulldog08]

Okay, yall are right, I don't know where I got that from. It is primary and secondary. I must have been drinkin 2 much pop r sumthin lol. Anyway, I am the same way, especially with older computers, about running with the sides off and drives hanging lol. I am really not wanting to risk unstalling Vista and XP still not working though. It's a tough pill to swallow because in order to completely back up all information on this drive it would be a killer. I don't mind doing it if i KNOW it would work, I just have a hard time taking that step because there really is no problem with Vista except the random and semi-frequent crashes. That and it doens't like a lot of programs I used on XP. I do like Vista a lot, it just needs better compatibility with older products.
I've also heard to install XP first for the same reason as you stated, that the Vista boot goes in a slightly different order or something and XP can't adapt to it. I just know there has to be an explanation as to why when installing Windows it always gives me a blue screen approx 5 seconds after loading all files and then saying "Loading Windows" (or something to that nature) at the bottom, right before it asks to format, accept agreement, etc.

Another reason I don't really want to reinstall is all the updates to software I have. It wouldn't be a big deal if I had high speed internet...I am still stuck using dial-up because of where I live. After I move to college next year I will strongly consider going ahead with the uninstall and reinstall. Especially after my warranty runs out at the same time my license with my anti-virus runs out. I know what you're thinking, don't use licensed antivirus, but my dad insisted because it's required for the warranty. Anyway, I have disabled it and use my handy dandy Avast :) It works magic lol.

I'll continue to read and post. Good luck guys.



P.S. I just remembered that I tried something the other day. I have an old laptop that I just acquired and wanted to test and see what would happen if I installed Vista followed by XP. My results were positive, everything went according to plan except the speed at which it did so. Vista was extremely slow to install because of the age of the computer I suppose, but it did work, and then XP came up without a problem. So I don't know if this is any help or a suprise but I just thought I'd throw that in there.

[rgreen4]

Spiro, I have read back through your posts, and a couple of thoughts. When you integrated the SATA (should be AHCI) drivers onto the XP SP2 disc (called slipstreaming), you should have left the BIOS setting on Raid or AHCI and not hit F6, I think.

Second on the older machine. This is all in relation to the Intel 82801 controller chip which has been around for a long time, but has had numerous updates and revisions. Apparently the revisions causing all the trouble are the Advanced Host Controller Interface and Raid feature which was introduced about two years ago. Hence, the SP2 version of XP which is about 2003 would not be able to support it.

SP3 is a Beta and the final version may or may not support it. The problem is that SP3 will come out so late, that it is unlikely that an original install disc with SP3 included will ever be offered. So we are in the catch 22 situation, to install SP3, XP SP2 will likely have to be installed first.

If you have a second drive available, you could install it and disconnect the primary drive, then change the BIOS and install XP. XP should install without problems in this case, but you may then have to search out various drivers for the installed hardware.

[Nugrl]

sorry about that...... you probably thought I had to go to Columbia to get those beans! ; anywho,............ there has to be a way to make this work. Where exactly do I need to look for these so called drivers that need to be installed during the XP Pro installation after hitting F6? and I still want to know, why in the hell did Gateway set this system up as RAID, when there is only 1 hard drive in the system? Am I just stupid or what? ?:|

[rgreen4]

Here is a good discussion on the topic on Wikipedia which may help. It also explains why since you have an Intel manufactured MB, according to the Gateway site, why it was set that way.

As to the source of the driver, that would be the computer manufacturer - Gateway. I know that does not warm the cockles of your heart, but it is the best source. I have not had any luck locating a driver on the Intel site, nor the Gateway site.

From the complexity of finding the drivers and doing the installation is why I suggested that the path of least resistance is to purchase a new copy of Vista and reset the BIOS and then re-install Vista and XP.

There are various versions of the 82801 controller chip and I'm not sure how applicable the drivers for one version are to another. For example Belarc Advisor informs me the chip in this laptop is the 82801 HEM/HBM SATA AHCI Controller. The chip in my 1 year older HP Media Center is the 82801 HR/HH/HO SATA Raid Controller. This was the machine I first encountered this problem on, but did not know at the time what the cause was.

Do both use the same driver? I don't know, this is why the driver must come from the manufacturer matched to your particular machine.

[spirobulldog08]

rgreen4 said:

Spiro, I have read back through your posts, and a couple of thoughts. When you integrated the SATA (should be AHCI) drivers onto the XP SP2 disc (called slipstreaming), you should have left the BIOS setting on Raid or AHCI and not hit F6, I think.

I tried that too actually. I tried just about every combination I could think of with every disc I attempted to install with. That part I'm pretty sure of.


> SP3 is a Beta and the final version may or may not support it. The problem is that SP3 will come out so late, that it is unlikely that an original install disc with SP3 included will ever be offered. So we are in the catch 22 situation, to install SP3, XP SP2 will likely have to be installed first.

[/quote]
I also did try SP2, I even had a disc with the original install of XP when it was first released. I've tried the regular discs of: Windows XP, Windows XP SP2. I've tried slipstreamed versions of Windows with the following: SP2 and Gateway driver from website, SP2 and Intel driver from website, SP3 (both drivers again), SP2 by itself, and SP3 by itself. I've created at least 3 Windows discs in the process of trying to get this to work, I could be in business with all these discs by now lol. Illegal as it may be. :D


> If you have a second drive available, you could install it and disconnect the primary drive, then change the BIOS and install XP. XP should install without problems in this case, but you may then have to search out various drivers for the installed hardware.
[/quote]
Believe it or not I actually tried that too way back in December or January. XP still got to the "Setup is launching Windows" (or whatever it says like that after loading files) and then gave the BSOD. I even tried at least 3 different hard-drives and contacted Gateway about it and probably got a bad note put by me for getting upset with tech for telling me they don't support dual-booting. They told me they wouldn't tell me how to do it but if I did it they wouldn't work on it under warranty, however if I took off XP before I sent it in they WOULD work on it. Just annoying, nit picking crap! Anyway, if there's anything else I might try or if I misunderstood something just let me know, I'd be happy to try it :) Thanks for all yalls' help. We'll eventually stumble across it.

[rgreen4]

spirobulldog08 said:

Thanks for all yalls' help. We'll eventually stumble across it.

That's about all we can do sometimes. I am bumfuzzled, setting the controller to IDE in the BIOS and setting up a new drive, XP should have installed. With or without SP2 or SP3. I have done that on my HP Media Center, and of course my home brew machine with the Gigabyte MB has the controller setting to IDE by default, so XP (and W2K) install without a hitch.

I have a link to the HP drivers for the 82801 HEM/HBM drivers for my dv9500 laptop. I may try slipstreaming an install disc for that laptop and try it on my Media Center just to see what happens. It will be a while before I get the chance to try it though.

Actually, I don't think you have anything to worry about on the discs, you are not selling or giveing them away, and besides, you still only have one COA, and if you passed that around, it wouldn't be long before the black helicopters were circling your house. !http://forums.pcworld.com/legacyimages/
1!

[spirobulldog08]

I actually am not sure I changed to IDE in BIOS now that you mention that when I put the IDE HD in the comp. I will have to give that a shot as bad as i don't want to because of the hassle lol. Anyway, thanks for the tip, I will try it just for kicks cuz i don't rememer. Thanks!



EDIT: Thanks mphenterprises I read that link and I'll be more careful. :)

[mphenterprises]

spirobulldog08 said:

>

Quote

I don't worry about that too much, I've used the key tons of times, i got access to a buncha diff keys and i just reuse them at random for reinstalling

>
>



Hi SpiroBulldog and welcome to the PCWorld Communities. :D




For future reference, I would strongly advise you not to mention the above statement regarding Product Keys within the forum. I personally cannot see how you can legally have "a buncha diff keys." Making that kind of statement, even in passing, can get your UserID banned from the forum for violating the {document:id=1000}. Please click on the hyperlink to learn more about the Community Standards.

[spirobulldog08]

UPDATE!!

Okay I have bad news and good news. They are pretty much the same thing though. I will describe my new idea in steps.

1. I had the idea to boot from an external hard drive and attept to install XP to the internal this way. The reason I knew this would work is because I've done it before and it worked, I wasn't aware that you could do this but it worked so I thought I'd try it again.

2. I bought me an external laptop hard drive enclosure and put in a working hard drive with Windows XP OS. I forgot to shut down the hard drive so it tried to come out of hibernate. It got all the way across and then rebooted. I then took out the HD, put it back in the laptop and shut it down completely. I then reinserted the HD into the enclosure and attempted to boot from external drive again. This time as soon as it started loading Windows XP it blue screened and shut off again.

Now I believe this has narrowed us down to something in the Gateway itself and NOT a hard drive. Somehow, something in the computer doesn't like Windows XP. Any idea? i don't want to think it's BIOS cuz BIOS doesn't really care what the OS is right? as long as it's bootable? what about another funky driver for something inside the Gateway such as a video or modem driver? possibly some other random driver? I'm going to put the drive back in the laptop and install all the drivers that I can find on Gateway's website and then once again attempt to boot to it. Wish me luck!

[rgreen4]

Apparently the HD you installed on the machine via the external enclosere had an OS that had been installed on another PC. Then you tried to boot this PC from that hard dirve. That will always result in an error. When installing the OS, a file is created containing information about the PC on which it is installed. If certain critical information does not match (CPU and MB for example) it will not boot. That has been true at least since Windows 2000, maybe before. I think you could get away with it on the old 9x series, but you had to reinstall all the dirvers.

[spirobulldog08]

I have heard that a lot, and I've experienced it frequently too. However, I've done quite a bit of technical work for the school I used to attend and mixed and swapped HDs several times and didn't have much of a problem. This could be because they all had the same BIOS and motherboard for the most part, but other than that it seemed to work fine. I imagine what you've said is right. This is frustrating because even when I take out the original HD that came in the computer it still fails to initialize the Windows XP CD, it loads all files and then when it says "starting windows" it blue screens. I'm getting so tired of it. I've tried numerous HDs and played with several diff settings in the BIOS with each HD. Idk, I'm about to give up because Gateway support is extremely useless because they refuse to help me. This will be the LAST computer I EVER buy built with an OS preinstalled!

[rgreen4]

The reason you are able to do that in a Corporate and Institutional environment, is that they have a different version of XP Pro than the rest of us. They pay for a license based on the number of users and the same COA is used on all the machines.

It is impossible to buy a manufactured PC without an OS these days. That would require you to build your own, which many of us do for that and several other reasons.

If you install a separate HD in the PC, set the SATA mode to IDE, then XP should install without any problems. If it will not it is indicative of other problems. This of course means that Vista will not run. The only way to get Vista and XP to run in the same machine again - is to install both when the SATA mode is set to IDE, or install both when the SATA mode is set to Raid or AHCI and in order to do this the AHCI driver for your machine for XP must be installed via a floppy and the F6 option selected when you first start to install XP.

Since you apparently are unable to get a driver from Gateway for the AHCI controller, if you want to dual boot, then you must install Vista from scratch, which is only possible from an install disc, not a recovery disc.

You apparent choice then with Gateway, is to choose Vista or XP, but not both.