[exxon]

I have not been able to find a laptop that offers no networking capabilities. I really need a secure computer for documents, spreadsheets, etc. I need it to be able to burn a CD. I want USB ports. Those don't present a problem because I carry my laptop everywhere and lock it up when I'm not using it. If I need to email, I do it from my online computer, so I don't need any Internet connection on the laptop. If someone could tell me who makes a laptop like this, I'd be very grateful. I don't know why it's so hard to find. Many people need absolutely secure laptops, and a company that made them could be rich overnight.

[techie4fun]

exxon said:

I have not been able to find a laptop that offers no networking capabilities. I really need a secure computer for documents, spreadsheets, etc. I need it to be able to burn a CD. I want USB ports. Those don't present a problem because I carry my laptop everywhere and lock it up when I'm not using it. If I need to email, I do it from my online computer, so I don't need any Internet connection on the laptop. If someone could tell me who makes a laptop like this, I'd be very grateful. I don't know why it's so hard to find. Many people need absolutely secure laptops, and a company that made them could be rich overnight.

Have you tried getting with your company to see if they would offer you a laptop for free? No machine is 100% secure unless you leave it disconnected from the Internet. Most notebooks come equipped with networking devices by default; consequently, if you want it bad enough, just DON'T connect it to the Internet.I'm not sure what I can recommend for an absolute SECURE machine. Frankly, I don't believe they exist.

The Air Force uses Dell computers to run their environments. The only secure environment is the software they run behind the axle.

[mphenterprises]

Hi Exxon and welcome to the PCWorld Communities. :D





First, I have changed your Discussion title to give a clearer indication of your question. For future reference, please be as descriptive as possible in both the heading of your Discussion as well as the post itself.

Now, I really do not follow your concern. The only way your computer is accessible to network attacks is if it is connected to a network. Malicious files are not contagious and will not jump from one computer to another without some sort of connection. If you never connect the laptop to any network, that computer will become essentially, a computer with no network capability.

[techie4fun]

He wants a secure machine but is stuck under the delusion that these things right fully exist.
As I said, the Air Force uses Dell machines for their every day use. The only thing difference between them and us is they have extra security measures that they have to follow by to keep secret. Any computer can be made for classified use as long as you leave it unknown from the outside word.



I may be totally wrong with what I'm saying, so please feel free to slap me if you know something I don't.



:D

[mphenterprises]

Hi Techie. Yeah, this is a very.......unique......question. I can understand the need for security; however, this request seems a bit extreme. My response was solely based on these two statements:

"I have not been able to find a laptop that offers no networking capabilities." and "If I need to email, I do it from my online computer, so I don't need any Internet connection on the laptop."



Based on these two statements, that describes every computer that is not connected to any network whatsoever. Unless this person is not telling us all of the situation, if he is that concerned with security, just get any laptop and never connect it to any internet network.

[crazy4laptops]

if you have a little techie skills you can physically remove the wifi card from the laptop, but the LAN/nic is soldered to the mobo, just disable it and don't connect a cable to it and nothing can get into or out of your computer.

Encryption helps with security, along with confusing passwords.

There actually is a pretty secure o/s, it's called linux, try it out and see what you think.

[kcihtred2]

well for the wireless i have a idea, its a little destructive but it'll work, just find one with an external wireless switch and super glue it into the off position, but a ethernet port may be useful, because of setting up a private network with the other computer and transfering the data. but you could just put something in to break it and then it would not work. oh and btw you may want to pick up one of these just incase: www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833156133

just incase you ever need to get online

[smax013]

exxon said:

I have not been able to find a laptop that offers no networking capabilities. I really need a secure computer for documents, spreadsheets, etc. I need it to be able to burn a CD. I want USB ports. Those don't present a problem because I carry my laptop everywhere and lock it up when I'm not using it. If I need to email, I do it from my online computer, so I don't need any Internet connection on the laptop. If someone could tell me who makes a laptop like this, I'd be very grateful. I don't know why it's so hard to find. Many people need absolutely secure laptops, and a company that made them could be rich overnight.

I agree with the others that you will likely find it highly unlikely, if not impossible these days to find a laptop with no network connections. It is just a fact of life that we live in a "connected" world, which means that laptops will generally at least have an ethernet port, if not also a WiFi adapter/card. You have a reasonably decent chance of finding a laptop that does NOT come with WiFi, but one without ethernet will be tough.



Thus, as others have said, the only way to make it "not connected" is just don't connect it to a network. This is definitely easy with an ethernet port...an ethernet port nominally presents the same security risk as a USB port if you never use it...if you use it, then it is a risk. WiFi is a bit more complex. You might be able to custom order a laptop from the likes of Dell or HP or Gateway with no WiFi...or even find one without (although that is much harder to do these days). If not, then you might have to resort to disabling it with the driver and/or running a software firewall that is set to full "lock down mode" all the time. For the ethernet port, if you are REALLY bother by it and REALLY will NEVER use it (an don't care about selling the computer to someone down the road who might want to use it), then just fill it with something like glue or such.



Overall, your better bet might be to get some sort of secure external drive (i.e. some drive that uses whole drive encryption) that you keep the data on seperate from the computer.

[exxon]

I did remove the wifi card. This didn't help. Then I took the laptop apart. I never did this before and was very discouraged by what I saw. Almost everything is part of the motherboard. I suppose this is old news to most people, but I thought I'd be able to remove stuff. I unplugged the modem chip from the modem aperture. Then I looked at this chip that can only be removed by physically cutting it out of the motherboard, which I'm afraid might destroy some vital connection that the laptop needs to function.

This modem chip has a small LAN chip soldered to it. I was thinking maybe I could melt the solder and lift it off. I bought Vista Basic Home (the complete operating system) because it has the least connectivity. I deleted the partition, made a new partition, wiped it, deleted it again, but still I ended up with a network. of which I'm not the administrator.

Somehow someone is getting into my laptop although there is no apparent means of access. I have never put it on the Internet, so this couldn't be a virus. I've tried security suites, but they are disabled.

I was reading about something that enables someone to administer a network by putting a card only in his computer. It's called something like RAC. The ad said that the computer he's administering doesn't even have to be on for him to access it. But still my computer would have to have a wireless element for him to be able to connect. Has anyone heard of this RAC and could he be using it? Can any part of a laptop (game card, Ethernet port, USB port) be changed to a wireless connection? Does infrared light have anything to do with wireless connections? I read in the HP shop manual about a USB port that received infrared light, but I don't know if I have this. HP didn't have a manual for my laptop available, just the family of laptops it belongs to.

If anyone knows of a tech who has encountered a hidden wireless backdoor and knows how to deal with it, and if he lives in New York City, I would be happy to hire him to solve this problem if I can afford to.

Thank you. Ann

[mphenterprises]

I knew there was something that was missing.



Network is not my strong suit so I will just deal with what I know and let those with more networking skills fill in the blanks. Most modern laptops have what's called a Radio Switch. If this switch is off, no matter what a person does, they will not be able to access your computer. On top of that, you can always disable both the ethernet and wireless adapters from within the Device Manager to completely shut outside access.

I could not find any definitive information about any application called a RAC. If you happen to have the ad about which you mentioned, please post the url for us. The closest thing I could find was Oracle's Real Application Cluster.

http://www.oracle.co...ring/index.html


You stated that you think someone is getting into your laptop. What exactly gives you this impression? What is happening (or not happening) that makes you think this? I do not know of a technician in the New York area; however, I do know of a company that I deal with when I have clients with whom have laptop issues I cannot fix. What I can recommend is to contact them and ask them if something like what you indicated is possible.

800tech.com is located in Manhattan. You can learn more about them at their website: http://www.800tech.com/

[crazy4laptops]

wow, you are OCD about keeping your laptop off the internet.

I repeat, do not connect any cables (besides power) to the computer and nothing can access your laptop. Turn off all wifi switches and disable all bluetooth connections.

do, please explain-
"Somehow someone is getting into my laptop although there is no apparent means of access."

in network connections is there a connection listed as IEEE1394? That is the firewire port (not an actual network connection) used for high-speed data tranfer of videos from compatible camcorders.

What computer did you get (make and model will be fine)


What is your definition of RAC? Remote Access Connection?

[exxon]

HP did actually offer me another computer for free, but I turned them down. I just would have to deal with the same problem on the new computer.

I was looking at some Dell laptops in a catalog. They have a couple of laptops for people with "minimal networking needs." They're only around $400, so I'm thinking of it. But for all I know this wireless backdoor might exist in all computers, and some people know how to exploit them. I'd be in the same situation.

Do you remember which Dell computer the Air Force's are most similar to? What is an axle? I have to agree that there is no such thing as a secure computer. While I was researching this situation, I read that a computer could be hacked through the electrical cord. Apparently they can tell by measuring tiny voltage drops which key you're striking on your keyboard. And of course there's Van Eck (sp?). It's downright scary.

But I don't think the average person would have to be concerned about those methods. On the other hand, my computer does seem to have a hidden wireless portal. If mine has one, probably they all do. Think of how useful it would be to an intelligence agency to be able to invisibly connect to any computer they wanted. And apparently no civilians are aware of it except for a few hackers. Think about it. You feel secure because you're not online. You write a book on your computer. You keep a diary on your computer. You keep spreadsheets with personal financial information on your computer.

[crazy4laptops]

Now i say you are paranoid. The voltage drop detection might be minimally possible if the goverment was looking for you and if you had a smart meter. But for the law abiding citizens that is not really a concern.
Btw, no one can hack into your computer via powerline. There is no data passed, only a supply of voltage to keep your laptop running.

what model is your hp computer? dv6000? does it have bluetooth? Why do you say a hidden wireless portal?

Did your computer come with a cellular data card, what about bluetooth? I have heard about hacks carried out that way.

Look in the expresscard slot, is there a plastic dummy or a media remote?

Hp's reputation would plummet if a wireless backdoor was found, btw, what makes you suspect such a thing?

I'm a real computer techie, and i've taken a few hp computers apart, and there is no secondary wireless card.

(type devmgmt in the search box in the start menu) look at the dropdown under network adapters tell me what you see, and/or attach a screenshot. Goto network connections, how many are there? What type of connections are they?

if this is any consolation, i have a similar model of hp computer and there are 3 network connections- wifi, LAN, and firewire. There is no wireless backdoor, on that computer. When i disabled and disconnected all of them, the computer was no longer detectable.

If you just disable all wireless connectivity cards, wifi, bluetooth, cellular and your lan card, I am positive your computer will not be able to be accessced by someone else unless you have a track record with the government and they bugged your computer before it arrived at your house.

A non-hackable computer is one that is disconnected from the internet, powered down, and all power sources removed.

[mphenterprises]

I tend to agree with Crazy on this one. If you cannot validate why you have these concerns, there is really not much comfort we can provide. I honestly feel you may be looking at this way too deep. As Crazy noted, and as many of us have stated, if your computer is not connected to any network and you have disabled all of the network adapters, no one can access your computer.

If you have some more information to share, please do.

[smax013]

crazy4laptops said:

in network connections is there a connection listed as IEEE1394? That is the firewire port (not an actual network connection) used for high-speed data tranfer of videos from compatible camcorders.

Actually, a Firewire port CAN be a network connection. Firewire is capable of operating as a network path...but like ethernet, you have to actually connect to a Firewire network with a Firewire cable for that to be true.

[crazy4laptops]

My bad on that. Btw, lets try not to freak this person out any more than needed to explain a networking funtion. If only we could get some pictures/screenshots of the laptop and network connections this issue could possibly clear up faster.

[mphenterprises]

Good point, Crazy.




Exxon, if you have a cell phone with a camera, please take some pictures of the networks ports on the outside of your laptop and open the laptop and take some pictures of the interior of your laptop.

[exxon]

First of all, I want to thank you folks for being so polite. I've been trying to resolve this issue for two years, and I've been called a lot of names. I'm glad I've found a place with open minds.

There was an unwilling (on my part) connection with a group that might be related to the government, but I can't really give any information because I don't have any. But I do want to stress that this might be something new. Until about three years ago, they were hacking me in ways that I could stop with a firewall, anti-spyware programs, etc.

I'm going to take those pictures. I have the laptop apart down to the motherboard. I'll also take pictures of the external connectors. I'll also include some netstats, adapter lists, ipconfigs, whatever I can think of.

But one thing. They didn't design this just for me. If any of you have free time, you should look at your own computers. Look for the following: This thing works beneath Windows. Information you get from Windows isn't necessarily correct. For instance, one of my .dat files shows as being much larger on the command screen. Look at MUI caches and see if the information is being directed anywhere. Anti-keylogger showed a problem in wbem, but I couldn't correct it. I didn't have access to delete the spy files. Check to see if your firewalls, antiviruses, and antispyware programs are actually working. It's been my experience that the first time I install them, they work. Then they're disabled and always show zero problems. I can't even install my Zone Alarm security suite anymore. It used to be able to stop my computer from trying to connect. If you just look at Windows, everything might seem fine when it's not.

See if you have complete access to your computer. Are parts passworded where you created no passwords? Are you really the administrator. You might have an administrator file but lack administrative powers. For instance, you won't be able to change other identities.

Do you have a remote registry that you didn't suspect? You have to actually read your registry to find these anomalies.

There's lots more, but I'm expecting to get bumped off at any minute and I can't think. I'll write the whole deal offline and paste it when I go to a print store with computer access. You all know more about computers than I do, so maybe you can think of other places to look to see if your computer is really your computer.

I never heard of Firewire. I'll try to look it up and also to find the URL with the RAC ad.

Thank you again. Ann

[crazy4laptops]

If your police record has anything more than parking, speeding tickets, and/or minor misdemeanors. Or if you have escaped from jail. The government is probably looking for you.

I'm sticking to the paranoia tag for the moment.

What do you mean by - "They didn't design this just for me." Who? HP? Gov? please explain.

What thing that works below windows? The HAL (hardware abstraction layer) is a common thing that works below windows, but it has ties to usb.

"For instance, one of my .dat files shows as being much larger on the command screen." What does this mean? Vista is bloated, so everything is going to be large.

All your problems seem to be virus related, did you connect this laptop to the internet at any time while you've had it?

"It used to be able to stop my computer from trying to connect. " is your wifi card connecting on it's own to invisible networks with odd ip addresses? I need clarification to solve this problem.

What on earth does this mean? "See if you have complete access to your computer. Are parts passworded
where you created no passwords? Are you really the administrator. You
might have an administrator file but lack administrative powers. For
instance, you won't be able to change other identities. Do you have a remote registry that you didn't suspect? You have to actually read your registry to find these anomalies. "

[mphenterprises]

Hi Exxon. Yes, you will find that the members of this forum respect one another. There are always bad seeds but when they show themselves, they are dealt with accordingly.

That being said, please take what I am about to state with a grain of salt. All I can say is wow. Not "Wow, I never thought of that." but "Wow, I have never heard such conspiracy theory jargon in all of my life."

Where do I begin?

{quote}There was an unwilling (on my part) connection with a group that might be related to the government, but I can't really give any information because I don't have any.{quote}

In all honesty, I have absolutely no idea about what you are talking. It seems like you are going into areas that are a bit of a reach for any of us to believe. You are starting to make claims that are either unsubstantiated or unfounded and each time you provide a response, your situation gets more and more vague.




{quote}Until about three years ago, they were hacking me in ways that I could stop with a firewall, anti-spyware programs...{quote}

So, let me see if I have this right. You knew that someone, or some agency, was purposefully hacking your computer but you did not try to find out why or how? Also, and here is the kicker...If you knew about this for so long, why did you allow it to continue?




{quote}They didn't design this just for me. If any of you have free time, you should look at your own computers.{quote}

So are you talking about a computer manufacturer? What company in their right mind would attempt fits of such a magnitude? For the most part, the majority of us within this forum build our own computers so...unless you are making an indirect claim that Microsoft is doing these things...our computers are safe.

Additionally, even for those that do have manufactured computers, you cannot really believe that a governmental agency, or a private company, is trying to "hack the planet" as one of my favorite movies stated.




Finally, bottom line is this. If you are having all of these problems and suspicions over this one computer, why do you still have it ? If you want to stick with laptops, there are so many choices from which to choose. If you would like to use a desktop computer, you choices are even greater and you can get someone that you trust to build a custom desktop computer for you.

I have to admit, this Discussion has more holes than answers. Please understand that we are not here to judge but the fact is that if you are just trying to use this Discussion as a platform for something, we do not want any part of it. If you truly believe your laptop computer is, possessed (for a lack of a better word), then get another laptop and be done with the situation.