[HeroofAvalon]

Well, my ancient Dimension 4600 hasn't cooperated with the limited upgrades available without switching the motherboard out for a more current model. Everything except the video card on the blasted machine is the same as the day I got it, and needless to say, due to the wearing down of parts (I'm amazed the thing still boots after about six years of use), it's slowed to a crawl, and you can no longer tell that it was once a top-of-the-line gaming rig.

It's time for a replacement. And this time, it will be a monster of my specifications, not those my parents placed.

At the top of my list, it should be fast. I mean so fast it'll give the case blisters. If possible, I'd like it to be able to run "Crysis" when it looks darn near its best. I doubt I'll ever PLAY Crysis, to be honest, but I'd like to have the option open to me if I ever got curious. Moreover, I'm more concerned about playing strategy games like "Sins of a Solar Empire" and "Command & Conquer 3" and "World in Conflict". My tastes also revolve around "Neverwinter Nights" and such games, though since I can play those already on my old rig, I'm not too worried about having the power to run them on a state-of-art one. Other things I do include web browsing, writing, and other hobby related stuff, so preferably I'd have a fast Internet connection capability to play online and do my everyday stuff.

Also included in my priorities are a large HD, or a group of them that can COMPRISE a large capacity. 1TB was my original goal, but I could always upgrade at a later date. 500 gigs would be plenty for a start, since I also plan partitioning the drive(s) into two pieces for two OSes. In addition to a large harddrive though, I'd also like RAM to be plentiful. I haven't ever experienced the difference large sums of the stuff makes, but all the experts say that it's a necessity for a hardcore gamer, so that's the kind of thing I'm looking towards. 3GB's of RAM would probably be more than enough to run Crysis-caliber game smoothly, and I don't even know if any OS short of a 64-bit can run four or more. The problem I have deciding between 32 and 64-bit versions is that one of my computer-literate buddies says that Vista 64-bit is much more stable and is more reliable than the 32-bit version. He claims that he plays games on his computer too, with no real adverse effects to speak of. I don't know who or what to believe anymore. Is 64-bit worth the risk to gain the additional amount of usable RAM? What other benefits does 64-bit have over 32?

So, basically, I want to get the fastest and closest-to-bleeding-edge rig that I can build from scratch, or upgrade from a cheap, base PC without spending ungodly amounts of money on it. Originally, a good PC to meet my needs was spotted at Best Buy for around $850. It had a nice high-end video card (an 8500-series I think), four gigs of RAM, 750 GB HD and a quad-core processor. I'd like to not go too much higher than that, if at all possible. Probably the highest I would go is $1200. The problem is, I'm not entirely sure how to go about acquiring the parts I need at a low enough cost to make it under that.

So, my question is this: Where would you recommend I purchase my supplies to get the most for my money, and what parts would you recommend? This is my first time custom-building a computer to meet my specific needs, so being as specific as possible would be of great help.

(Also, if you wouldn't mind answering an extra question: How does one know the greatness of particular graphics cards? What thing, or combination of things, makes them tick?)

[piyushsingh]

regarding the 64/32 bit issue - vista 64 bit is said to be faster than the 32bit version for the resource hungry applications but whether the time is ripe for a 64bit OS is yet to be decided. A short answer for the 4GB ram issue is that with a 32bit OS , you cant use all the 4gigs you put in there. For that you need a 64bit OS.
Now the driver concerns regarding the 64bit OS have disappeared but application compatibility is still a big issue. One of the biggest game releases this year was the assassins creed that came without any support for the 64bit windows. As this will be a gaming PC , you should put anything between 2-4GB but 4GB is recommended. Get 32-bit vista now, and upgrade to 64bit later . msft charges only a small fee for upgrading to 64-bit that is for the disc charges. So you can upgrade anytime later.

regarding graphics issue - First thing you need to look for is whether you are going for a nvidia card or an ati one. A thumb rule that many and i also follow is to get an nVIDIA card with an intel built and an ATI with AMD. nVIDIA is my preference. The fnext important thng is the amount of graphics memory a card has. Other important specs include the memory clock and the bandwidth. The memory amount and the clocks are most important. The budget you are eyeing , the best i would say will be 9600GT . Also check 8800GT and 8600GTS.

[coastie65]

First, you are going to get a lot of input, so don't let it over whelm you. If you go with a 500 or 750 Gb hard drive, then you'll have plenty for a dual boot set up. You were talking about a 64 Bit OS, well that could be Vista, but if you want to also use XP, then you need to consider ordering a copy while you can. I do think that June 30 cut off date is somewhat off as I believe as long as retailers have it in inventory they can sell XP after June 30. As for cases and motherboards, I haven't really done a lot of research on them as I figured I'd wait til the time came when I decided to do a build. You will probably get a lot of recommendations for the Intel Q6600 Quad which is a very good processor. Budget wise, I lean more toward the E6850 C2D Conroe, but that is just a personal thing. In Video cards there are several things to look for, Bit Transfer rate ( you want 128) and shader (2.0 - 3.0) to name two things. Nvidia 8600GT or 8600GTS, Nvidia 8800GT or 8800GTS, are just two that would fit the gaming aspect. Your assumptions regarding memory is right, the more the better. You can install 4 Gb with a 32 bit OS with no problem as long as the MOBO will suport it. You are right in that the OS will only "see" 3 Gb. The motherboard should support a big Front side bus ( 1067 Mhz or better ) as well as a big memory bus ( 1067 Mhz), and yes it should support the processor you want to use, which goes without saying. I'm reasonably sure that you have an idea as to the optical drive so I'll leave that be for now. Oh yeah, I have seen some MOBOs with a 12 channel HD audio chipset onboard. That ain't bad as I've got a 6 channel ( I think) HD audio chipset onboard and it does quite well. In my signature, you will see my system specs and I can play Crysi with all settings on High although I do turn off anti aliasing. I may be wrong but I don't think RTS games need the resources that the high end FPS games, such as Crysis, require. You mentioned Neverwinter Nights. Neverwinter Nights 2 does require a little more muscle than the original. It is up there with Oblivion, more or less, as far as system requirements go. I am just giving you some general thoughts on this, but I am sure others will come in with a little more detailed information and some suggestions along with price. coastie65

[pedjak]

I think we're all on the same page. I'm a gamer and I use VIsta 64bit with 2 GB of ram, and I can feel that my system needs more ram. So i've decided to get addional 4GB of gaming ram. I know many people have problems with Vista..many of my friends had problems with it. Their games would crash, or they would get less FPS. So far, I like Vista..no problems. But, if you decide to get Vista and play games like Cod4, Age of Cohan...you will soon find out that Vista is thristy for ram. I'm adding 4GB (totalling 6GB), but 4GB is ideal.


-----
My rig:

Quad6600 ( MB: Asus p5ke) - 8800 GTS OC 512 - 2 GBPC6400

[piyushsingh]

pedjak said:

you will soon find out that Vista is thristy for ram. I'm adding 4GB (totalling 6GB), but 4GB is ideal.

I would slightly disagree with you on this. I play fine on vista 32-bit with 2 gigs and my ram uasge never crossed 1.5 gigs even with games like crysis and cod4. But this built is now about an year old , so i also will add 2 more when i shift to 64 bit maybe next yr. Maybe 64-bit is the cause but 32bit simply goes well with 2 gigs. 4gigs is ideal for a 64-bit vista for a gaming enthusiast.

[pedjak]

2GB of ram for Vista x32 is fine. But for x64, you will need to add more ram. I used to have XP Home Edition with 2GBs of ram, and it ran Cod4, BF2 and other game without any problems.

[piyushsingh]

thats what i said. Its not a vista issue but a 64bit issue that makes it a bit more ram hungry.

[pedjak]

Yep :)

My motherboard supports ddr2 and ddr3..well im stickin with ddr2, because i heard from many people that ddr3 is not worth buying yet.

Suggestion for a friend who wants a gaming rig:

I didnt buy my computer from a store, i took my time..decided what i want from my computer..picked the right parts and built it myself.

I believe I saved alot of money. Newegg and tigerdirect.com run sweet deals from time to time..you just have to check and you will find a great deal.

[jbking]

http://www.tomshardware.com/ is a site that has a monthly Best Gaming Card for the Money that should be of some interest and I would also suggest reading up on when new products are coming out as there seem to be some new cards coming out soon, the 4000 series of Radeon from AMD and the GTX 200 series from nVidia, so I may suggest waiting a little while on that point but that is what I'd suggest.

JB

[coastie65]

I agree with reading up and doing your homework. As someone who does game and bought an 8400GS without first looking at the specs, I can tell you it is very important. :D That was definitely not the card for gaming and turned around had to buy an 8600GT which was much much better. coastie

[smax013]

HeroofAvalon said:

It had a nice high-end video card (an 8500-series I think),

I should note that a 8500 series nVidia card is NOT a "high-end" video card. In fact, it is a relatively low end. In the 8000s series, the 8600 series is kind of mid-range and the 8800s get you to the top end. But, even then top of the line 8800 cards are no longer the tippy-top of the nVidia line.



As mentioned in other posts, an 8800GT is considered a reasonably prices higher end level card (in the 8000s series). It should handle the likes of Crysis fine with some future "proofness" (not as much as some better cards, but still darn good for the price).

[coastie65]

To further expand on what smax said, You know what your budget is so in short, I would look at anything from 8600 up that fits your budget. If you find something and you are still not sure, just post, and you'll definitely get some input from this opinionated bunch. :D coastie

[pedjak]

For gaming: 8600 GT or GTS are solid for gaming. 7600 GS and GT are still good cards for gaming. I used to have 7600GT and i was getting more FPS than some people who had 8600GT. To buy your perfect card, you really have to do your homework. I have BGF 8800GTS OC 512 and it runs great. I play mostly Call of Duty 4, and everything is on high settings and high resolution..no lag at all. Always check v.cards on newegg.com , they have great prices.

[Kilme]

Well, since no one has made any parts suggestions yet, here goes! First off, as far as a good hardware store is concerned, there is Newegg.com. They have a great selection and nice prices, as well as awesome customer service. I've been using them for years, and have never been disappointed. Secondly, I need to ask if you need a new monitor, keyboard, mouse, etc. Other than that, here is what I would suggest.

Intel Q6600: $199.99

AC Freezer 7 Pro: $26.99

MSI Neo3 P45: $119.99

Mushkin 4GB DDR2 800: $89.99

Seagate 7200.11 500GB: $89.99

Corsair 620W Modular: $154.99

Coolermaster RC690: $84.99

Lite-on DVD Burner w/ Lightscribe: $31.99

Visiontek HD4850: $199.99

Total price: $998.91

This leaves some room for whatever OS you end up deciding on, and possibly for a monitor and keyboard/mouse.

Acer 19" LCD: $169.99

Vista Home Premium 32-bit: $99.99
Vista Home Premium 64-bit: $99.99
XP Professional 32-bit: $139.99
XP Professional 64-bit: $139.99

I won't bother posting a keyboard and mouse, since there's a lot of personal choice in picking those. That would build a very nice computer which would last you a good while. As far as your question for how to determine how good graphics cards are, it's really just research. I'm no expert on GPU specs, so someone can feel free to correct me.

The main specs of a GPU are the memory amount, memory type, memory interface, core clock speed, memory clock speed, and stream processors. Memory amount on modern cards can range anywhere from 128MB to 1GB. Bigger is better, as long as the card has the power to make use of the memory, which isn't always the case (large memory on a weak card is a marketing scheme to rip people off). Memory type slowly changes as time goes on. GDDR2 cards are old, and should be avoideded when purchasing a new card. GDDR3 is on many modern cards, and is faster than GDDR2. GDDR4 is on newer ATI cards, and GDDR5 is on ATI's top of the line card. The memory interface is extremely important. A GPU can have all the memory in the world, but if it only has a 64-bit or 128-bit interface, it will really hold it back. Most modern cards have a 256-bit interface, while Nvidia's new top of the line card has 512-bit, and dual GPU cards have two 256-bit interfaces going at once. Core clock speed generally starts out at 550-650MHz, and goes up either by the manufacturer overclocking the card, or the user doing it themself. The same goes for memory clock speed, which usually starts around 1800-1950MHz. Stream processors, I'm not really versed in. I know they do important tasks, process information, display data, etc, but I'm not sure what exactly it is they do. However, the more stream processors the better.

A final thing to look at for GPUs is what family they come from, which can be much more important. Just because one GPU has higher specs than another doesn't mean it is better. This is also what confuses many people about video cards, and also can lead to salespeople ripping off customers by touting the "higher spec'ed" card. I'll use a common example in Nvidia's 8-series. The 8500GT is a rather weak card, which many stores try to pass off as a gaming card. In Nvidia's numbering scheme (which can be really confusing), anything below 600 is a low end card, meant only for basic computing and low end graphics. 600 is the base gaming card, 800 is midrange, and 900 is high end. In between each of these numbers are letter rankings as well. They go, in order, from GS, GT, GTS, and GTX. So an 8600GT is slightly weaker than an 8600GTS, an 8800GS weaker than an 8800GT, etc. A higher clocked 8600GTS will never match the power of an 8800GT for example, and like mentioned above, an 8500GT can never hope to be as good as the higher ranked cards in the 8 series (or even some in the 7 series for that matter). GPU specs are usually only good for comparing cards from the same series (two 8800GTs), a similar card in another series(8800GS and 9600GSO), or a similar card from a competitor (ATI's 3870 vs Nvidia's 9600GT). I can't comment on ATI's naming scheme, since other than the recent HD3xxx and HD4xxx series, I know nothing about it. Anyway, I hope this helps!

[Evildave]

Instant High-End 'gaming rig'.

Buy PS3 - $400~$500

Install Linux on it - Free (No hack required! Sony supports it!)

Get USB2 hub, mouse, keyboard - $70

Get PS3 VGA cable - $30

Get 1TB USB2 hard drive - $200

Take half your savings and buy a big stack of games.

Linux will come with all your office, desktop publishing, art, etc. programs.

[coastie65]

Spoiler :D

[piyushsingh]

agree. Its so nice to configure and build gaming PCs. ;-)

[bluefalconloyd]

I just finished building my first gaming PC about a month ago and have to say it was quite the exercise learning exactly how everything needed to be. I just recently feel as though I've finally ran all the bugs out of it. The only problem I had was a faulty memory stick port on my motherboard, which EVGA replaced without question free of charge or shipping. It's nice to sit at a desk that has something that you made on it :)

[coastie65]

Haven't gotten around to doing a build yet, but yeah, I guess it is a special feeling to know you have what you want and you built it. coastie

[bluefalconloyd]

Just don't use any videos posted on YouTube on how to build your own computer. The first videos that pop up are of this kid that lays all the parts seperately on the CARPET of his bedroom. He continues to use a magnetic screwdriver, even to install the harddrive. and is never once grounded properly when making the installs.