[SPIKEMAN]

Hi Skully,

Yes, I agree with you, most of the main problems of odd things, are usually from misinformation or just plain not knowing what is going on! READ the instructions! Check the forums, find out what is correct or not before attempting any unfamiliar project! CISS units are the answer to most of the printing problems if they are installed correctly. As You mentioned, Toddlers will play with anything unusual they can reach! Therefore, install the system where there is NO tubes etc showing and the supply tanks can be behind the printer! I don't like the way most of the instructions advise installing the units. There are many more better ways if a little exploring is done! Too much or too little slack in the supply tubes can be dangerous, the key is to get the exact amount and put guides so they don't flop around where they are not supposed to be! On My printer, the tubes come out the rear and the tands are attached to the right side with velcroe. Very convenient! Instead of usint the rear filling holes, I drilled a small hole at top of each tank for the injection needle. Has to be a bit larger than the needle so air can escape while filling as the vents are behind the tanks. Put a piece of metal ac tape over each hole when finished filling. Going on about 3 years since I installed the unit and no problems at all!

I posted a question about PC W s testing practice some time back when they first did the test and stated that bands showed up in the photos! INK will NOT make bands! UNLESS, the heads are bad!

As far as the fading of the ink/paper, I have a photo 4x6 taped to the west side of my shed where the hot sun is on it at least 6 hours a day and no fading at all for past 3 weeks! The paper is KIRKLAND from COSTCO. I find it to be excellent paper.

I am not sure about the types of ink recommended for my printer. I believe I can use either type Die or Pigment as there are cartridges available for both kinds. I purchase the 8 oz bottles for PRINTONA DIME . It has served me well with no problems.

If you should decide to go to the CISS unit, will be glad to provide any knowledge that I may have to assist if needed. Most all the Epson Printer of a few years back are approx same type carriage movement and that is what is important to get the exact layout of the tubes. The guides I added made all the difference in longevity of the tubes!

Good luck



Gen. D

[MacHelp]

Perhaps I'm missing something here. Can someone PLEASE explain why anyone would want to pay upwards of 75¢ per page for color prints on ANY inkjet printer regardless of whether their using branded cartridges or 3rd party cartridges when significantly lower cost alternatives are available for 9.4¢ per page?
I mean, it's fun arguing how many angels can fit on the head of a pin, but inkjet printers are a disposable commodity. When you run out of ink, in many cases, it's less expensive to replace the entire printer than to replace the cartridges.
Which leads me back to my original question. After all is said and done, inkjet are very inexpensive to purchase but no matter how you slice and dice it, they're incredibly expensive to run,

[Ken2]

My printer is a HP 895Cxi. While I have never purchased remanufactured ink cartridges, I have purchased and used two different refill kits. The first was a Stratitec purchased at Sam's Club, the second an ims purchased at Costco.

Neither kit caused any printer problems, but in both cases the refilled color cartridges gave innacurate photo colors.

On the other hand, the refilled black cartridges performed flawlessly. Each kit cost around $14.00 and was good for seven or eight black cartridge refills. That's a tremendous savings.

[linart1]

I have two HP printers. For years I have refilled the 56, 57 & 58 cartridges for the older one, an HP Photosmart 7350, using Stratitec ink kits with very few problems. The print heads are in these cartridges. Sometimes, after the tenth refilling or so, a cartridge will malfunction and not print well. By that time, I've more than gotten my money's worth.
My newest printer is an HP C7180 which uses HP 02 cartridges. These are not refillable. But I located ink and empty replacement cartridges (a kit) which feature auto reset chips from abcink.com. These have worked perfectly. I get a "Genuine HP cartridge installed" message upon installation and I can't tell any difference in text or photo printing. abc's web site was recently updated and said the kit wouldn't work with the C7180, but I have had no problems, so I think that's an error.

[advoc8]

MacHelp,



Wow, 75 cents per color copy??? what a rip off. Even 9 cents is very bad. I pay about a half cent to 2 cents per full page color copy depending on the cost of the paper, the refill ink and it's quality and how much color any particular copy really ends up with. Now that's what I call good - my Canon MP530 ink-jet with refilled carts done at home and ussually inks off of eBay and paper on the very best sales from Staples. As for photos, that is more. The paper is the big cost but still, I can print 4x6 prints for around 4 to 12 cents per print. Not bad at all. As for my favorite ink (cheap but not the cheapest, for my printer) - that would be Calidad, off of eBay - awesome color match and best fade resistance I've found, so far. Too bad neither PCWorld or Consumer Reports ferreted out the very best refill inks for their otherwise scientific tests.



I used to dread or even hate printing when using all OEM since the cost was prohibitive.



Now I love printing.



I see a CISS in my future.



Refilling yourself IS da bomb!

[moentkaey]

It seems really strange that PC World has decided to review some inkjet cartridges and can't write if the cartridge is remanufactured or compatible.

When mentioning 123inkjets, about Epson CX5000 on the 3rd and 4th page of Jeff Bertolucci's article, he cannot decide if these were remanufactured or compatible.

Within the last year of Epson's lawsuit, the fight over remanufactured and compatible has been an expensive court case and if Jeff did a research over months, he cannot simply post an article on PC World not knowing what is remanufactured and compatible.

I cannot trust an article that the writer has no idea what he's talking about.

In my opinion this article should be retracted and reviewed.

[bagelnosh]

I have a Cannon g3 printer that I got about 3 years ago. Since I purchased it I've used after market ink mostly purchased from Canada at about 10 cents on the dollar, I'm guessing that I've probably saved about 500 bucks or more !! I've not had any problems and for daily household needs with kids that like to continuously print stuff out it's been great. I've printed numerous pics that have sustained better than I though they would based on what I'd read in the past. Unless I was into serious long lasting photos I see no need for the proprietary inks.

Given that good all in one printers now cost less than $100 my strategy would be to always use cheap ink because even if it did shorten the printers life as some claim chances are you'd still recoup the cost of the printer and more just by buying the generic ink ;-)

[MaleManGuy]

I have noticed with cheap-er Inks is that their uniformity is different from cartridge to cartridge. Some run out quicker than others and usually run out quicker than the manufacturers cartidges.

Personally I am thinking it is time to get a black and white laser printer for which the cost of consumables is a lot less per page, and go to the nearest super-store where they can print off your digital photos for 29 cents per 4 x 6. It's cheaper than what I can do it since my printer requires 7 cartridges at $15 + each on average. Too much. The refilled cartridges do not print as good a quality and they run out quicker and more un-evenly. Inks are over-priced I think... maybe it's similair to game consoles and games... the console is as cheap as possible to suck you in to the consumables. I have a wide-carriage canon i9100 ink jet printer and I typically only have Joy with new cartridges... I can't be bothered putting up with the pain of refills since they occassionally have striping problems etc.



Jeff

[advoc8]

BOTTOM LINE:



It appears from most of these posts that it comes down to a matter of finding the better or even best refill inks or replacement cartridges to save you money AND give you great quality at the same time. Many of us HAVE found them, and believe that there may be even better out there that we haven't seen ourselves yet, due to "too many choices." How about finding those? Maybe someone has already done this real study?



I would think that another scientific article is in order which would search for the best refill inks and replacement cartridges. That was the only downfall of this otherwise scientific article. If you compare the wrong items, how valid is the otherwise most scientific test?



Some of us who have been very successful with refills or replacements for years feel that Consumer Reports should likewise go back and do the same since their similar scientific review resulted in considerably less favorable conclusions on refill inks and replacement cartridges. When the studies are not duplicable, there was an error in method. I believe that error would be the random approach of choosing subjects to test and failing to search for the best to put to the test. Yes, we need to see how the range varies, as PC World better showed (good job there!).



We know that the OEMs were allowed to put their very best foot forward in any test comparison, but what about the refills and replacement industry as a whole? Some aren't very good while others are fine while some shine. Can we leave that to chance in any study and call it scientific?

[tomashley]

I have worked in R&D for an ink jet OEM and have served as Chief Technology Officer for one of the largest ink jet remanufacturers in the world. I'd be happy to write something on the principles involved, but I am not in a position to run tests. I think a key point that is often overlooked is that there are good aftermarket companies and no-so-good ones. It is not as simple as generalizing about OEMs (who are all more-or-less good) and aftermarket firms (who vary enormously).

[advoc8]

tomashley,


Do you know which refill inks are the best as far as light-fastness, color match (or just pleasing color) and non-clogging? Is there a company or organization which researches this already? That would be the place for a good research article on this subject to start.

[tomashley]

The difficulty in determining this lies in the fact that few aftermarket firms make their own ink. In general (but not in every case), the best inks come from world-class ink manufacturers, some of whom sell inks to printer manufacturers as well as aftermarket companies (not the SAME inks, however).

Many lawsuits have been filed by ink and printer manufacturers against aftermarket firms. It is expensive to insure that ink formulations do not infringe existing patents and much more expensive to defend against lawsuits in court - it doesn't help to be in the right if mounting a legal defense bankrupts the company! So most choose to err on the side of caution, which makes the production of inks that match the original in performance difficult for all but the largest ink suppliers.

[vteyedoc]

I have not seen the name MEDIA STREET yet in several pages of comments. I have been using their bulk ink system with total success in my year old EPSON

Photo Stylus R1800 without problems IF YOU don't count several head cleaning sessions. The BULK system uses cartridges which the printer recognizes

as NON EPSON and this triggers dialogs asking if I want to continue, which I do with no further adue. $ savings are substantial. I have not reprinted any

photos previously printed with the EPSON inks but plan to do so. Anyone else have any comments about this company's inks?

[SPIKEMAN]

Hi VtEyeDoc

I haven't had any dealings with said company but I do use bulk ink to very good results! My photos are as good as the original ink! Use an Epson r300 printer with a CISS unit I installed with a couple mods. It has worked perfectly for about 2 years with no problem. One thing, the waste ink message appeared and was reset now ok. I buy my ink in 8 oz bottles from PRINTONA DIME.COM . Very reasonable or I could not afford to do as much as I do.

I used to use refilled cartridges with my Epson 925. However, I found too many problems with the cartridges! It is known that a lot of head cleanings are necessary for the 925. This is NOT the printers fault! I proved it beyon a shadow of a doubt! It is the cartridges! I designed a unit that would test the cartridges which worked EVERY TIME A COLOR WAS MISSING! It would show which color was not allowing ink to flow! Now I don't have that worry! With the CISS unit, the r300 works all the time! ( Went to the r300 because of the cd printer feature).

Spikeman

[MasterMax]

As part of my job for the past seven years I have been responsible for purchasing and maintaining a combination of HP (26 at this date) and Brother (14 as of this date) inkjets and many LexMark (21) and Brother (11) lasers printers including the consumables. Since month two I have been using remanufactured ink jet and laser cartridges. I've probably received five defective ones that were replaced by the supplier and have yet to have trouble with any of the printers because of the cartridges. The key to keeping the printers operating is to just keep them clean. The amount of money saved is more than enough to replace any of the printers that could have just up and failed. Find yourself a reputable supplier and start saving money today.