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Gas Crisis Fuels Dubious Online Offers

#1 User is offline   PCWorld 

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Posted 28 July 2008 - 09:00 PM

Post your comments for Gas Crisis Fuels Dubious Online Offers here
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#2 User is offline   HermanJen213 

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 08:03 AM

Question....Have you used one of these kits to call them "rubbish"?
I for one used the manual I purchased from water4fuel,info and did exactly as instructed.
So far I've been able to save an estimated $670 at the pump in 9 months with this "rubbish" as your so called expert says and my car (1999 Ford Crown Victoria) is doing just fine.
I really detest it when folks who do not use a product and claim to be experts pass judgment without any merit.
I'm pretty certain that people have been duped into purchasing products over the years that claim to improve health, mileage, or anything known to man, but all I know is the FACT that this manual and self made system works for me.
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#3 User is offline   gundark 

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 10:39 AM

No offense,HermanJen213, but I think you are being misled. Maybe something else you changed at the same time has increased your fuel economy?

If these devices really could increase fuel economy while allowing the engine to run at peak efficiency, the automakers would already have them installed. Bragging rights, you know?

I'm an engineer in the automotive field and a talented mechanic. Scientifically speaking, the device cannot work as advertised.
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#4 User is online   GCFreak 

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 04:18 PM

Besides, there is no such thing as oxyhydrogen, and when hydrogen mixes with oxygen it creates water (H2O, not HHO.) And mixing hydrogen with oxygen can even be dangerous, as there is the possibility that it will explode.
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#5 User is offline   Pena47 

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 09:49 PM

lol, oxyhydrogen. HHO, HOH, and OHH all have one thing in common, they are water (H2O).
I should point out that it is possible to combine hydrogen with oxygen to produce energy, HOWEVER, in order to get the hydrogen you need to split it from the water to begin with, which takes energy. In the end you aren't producing any "miracle" power or better fuel efficiency.
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#6 User is offline   Fred112 

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Posted 01 August 2008 - 05:06 AM

I suspect that Henman is part of the scam. His first on the list of replies to an absolute scam doesn't pass the "smell test".
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#7 User is offline   watercarblog 

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Posted 01 August 2008 - 08:03 AM

Hey Tom Price,
As a blogger, I look to professional journalists to do a bit of investigation before they publish a piece like this. Instead, there's no investigation (assembling pros/cons) and you use two statements out of their original context. Mike Allen called hydrogen fuel injection systems bunk months ago upon first hearing of them. Then, now after the web has put him in touch with alot of angry people successfully enjoying the benefits of this technology, he now announces he's going to TEST ONE HIMSELF. Well now, isn't that big of you Mike? To actually test something before calling it rubbish. And you Tom Price, I dont see any mention of this fact in your horribly imbalanced article. Based on how you got started in this article, I bet the AAA spokesman's quote is also out of context--there's nothing on AAA's website about this--- So if the AAA rep is refering to the long list of gadgets the EPA has tested and proven not to work, they have not tested a hydrogen fuel injection or hho generator system. I know because I've spoken to them myself and have been blogging about the topic for 2yrs. Check your facts, Tom. Start with the National Hydrogen Association of which Chrysler is a member among other large entities. They have endorsed what you are trashing. Call them up. The biggest problem with this technology isnt that it doesnt work, it's that its efficacy is called into question because the single best govt agency to validate it's use is not mandated to do so. The EPA should be testing this but they only test them when a vendor approaches them first. Instead, they should be actively testing them without waiting. That's the problem we have here. Instead, we get all this misinformation so that people like me can be tricked into signing up for PC World Newsletters just so I can post an alternative view on this thread.
WHAT A JOKE!!!!
And to the other posters who think variables not related to teh original commentator's car caused his fuel efficiency to go up, look up a dynamometer test....and then lets talk.
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#8 User is offline   mcbarker 

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Posted 01 August 2008 - 08:37 AM

H2O to HHO... !http://forums.pcworld.com/legacyimages/
1!
Should be H2O > HHO = Vendor's banker reacting with a HO HO HO.
If you think the water enhanced car works, then I have just the thing for you... A cold fusion engine, as seen in the movie "Back To The Future". Runs on old banana peels and momma's leftover meatloaf (you get an extra 5 miles per gallon if the meatloaf has turned moldy).
Sorry... Just couldn't resist!
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#9 User is offline   rtfire1 

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Posted 01 August 2008 - 09:35 AM

Well my dad has a trade mag that talks about this and theyare going to be testing it in an older ford pickup to see what happens.
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#10 User is offline   chazman 

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 08:44 AM

They way I understand it, HHO is the proportional mix of water's individual components before it is ignited back into water. As to all you naysayers, knocking a technology without testing it and publishing the results puts your credibility into question too.
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#11 User is offline   mcbarker 

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 09:16 AM

There is no electrolytic system on a car (or built within the system being sold) which is powerful enough to break down the H2O bond into its individual components... or HHO (which is not a valid molecule anyway). If you have come up with such a system, we would all be happy to hear about it... and so, probably, would the Nobel Prize committee.
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#12 User is offline   TakeFive 

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 10:58 AM

If you go to YouTube and do a search for "Standley Meyers" you will see his "Water Car" in operation as well as his motorcycle using water for fuel....He has a United States patent on his invention by the way. Unfortunately, he was poisoned at a diner in his honor. I won't mention who was responsible for his death because it is obvious who would benifit by his death...He had a kit to convert your car to run on water for 1500 dollars....His invention used electronics to split the water molecule into hydrogen. You did not have to buy the hydrogen in tanks because his invention produced the hydrogen on the spot as needed....Japan already has just such a car using almost the same system as Mr. Meyers...Why they are not making this car available to the world is a mystery, but you can bet they will be the first nation to start mass producing this car before anyone else....YouTube has a video on thie Japanese car as well.
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#13 User is offline   TakeFive 

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 11:05 AM

The name of the Japanese water car company is: "Genepax"
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#14 User is offline   rtfire1 

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 11:25 AM

the oil company buys up the plans and keeps people using gas
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#15 User is offline   gothicle 

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 05:15 PM

There was a movie once, about the conspiracies that the oil companies are in charge of to keep people buying gasoline...

The fact is, that's not true, or they never would have allowed current hybrid cars. Ford would love to produce a water powered car. They could charge a million bucks per car and people would buy it.

Even MythBuster tested these ways to 'improve fuel effeciency'. They really are bogus.
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#16 User is offline   janekMZ 

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Posted 10 August 2008 - 04:44 PM

I have the manual how to build the kit to use Water for fuel, I just haven't had the time to build it. They way I understand, it splits water into hydrogen and oxygen, then mixes hydrogen with gas to be burned in the engine. So I think the burning of hydrogen creates enough energy to drive the car and to split water for more hydrogen. This process is different than Hydrogen Fuel Cell, which recombine hydrogen with oxygen to create water (in a sense no pollution).
On second note. Does anyone remember EV1 from GM, I didn't know it existed until I've hear about http://www.whokilled...lectriccar.com/ (watch the film). GM killed the project claiming that there was no profit in electric vehicles, and they replaced the EV1 with the original hummer. Now GM is developing the VOLT, which has only about 40 miles per charge compared to a maximum of 150 miles per charge for EV1. I don't know about you, but I would prefer to buy a car that can go 150 miles instead of 40 miles per charge. The Volt costs about $30,000 (EV1 was priced at $80,000), but the Volt is still too expensive with only 40 miles per charge. Now everyone that's in a risk of loosing profits from Water for Fuel kits is trying to kill that technology too. I think the auto industry can make way more efficient cars, they just don't.
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#17 User is offline   Fred112 

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Posted 10 August 2008 - 05:24 PM

I have an idea for a perpetual motion machine...I just haven't gotten off my couch yet to build it... but I am sure it will work. Can't get a patent though. Damn patent department wants a working model.

Please do not put any money into these scams. Believe me when I tell you that the engineers at the big auto plants know exactly how much energy is in a gallon of gasoline and they can tell you exactly what percentage of that energy is available to do the work required to propel the auto down the road. They know how much energy went out the tail pipe, how much went out the radiator to cool the engine, how much was lost in radiation and convection from the hot engine, etc. They know where every Btu went.

It takes as much energy to break water into hydrogen and oxygen as you can theroetically get if you recombine the hydrogen and oxygen. But the process is not 100% efficient. If you spend $1 to separate hydrogen from oxygen and then recombine the molecules, you will not get $1 out. One thing you should know however, the process to break water apart is very efficient because it uses electrical energy to do that. However, to get work out of the hydrogen and oxygen, you either have to use the fuel cell process, or burn it. Fuel cells can generate a lot of electricity if they are large enough and low price. None of them available at this time meet those two criteria.

Folks that haven't worked with hydrogen do not realize its properties. In the liquid state at atmospheric pressure, hydrogen weighs a little more than 4 lbs/cubic foot. (water is 62.4) and its temperature is about 37 degrees Rankine (37 Fahrenheit degrees above absolute zero!) If you fill a tank on a hot day with liquid hydrogen, it bleeds off all the time if you use it as a rocket fuel, or if you don't let it bleed and come to ambient temperature, then the vessel you have it stored in has to be thick walled and very strong and heavy or it will rupture.
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#18 User is offline   janekMZ 

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Posted 10 August 2008 - 07:03 PM

I know that the engineers know where
all the energy from the gasoline is going to, such as heat and
mechanical energy. All I'm saying is that they can make engines more
efficient so that more energy is transferred into moving the car
rather than being wasted as heat. In my physics class I ran a little
experiment on efficiency of my car, if I recall correctly it was
under 20%, so imagine $3.20 of $4.00 a gallon is being wasted. You
said it yourself that “the process to break water apart is very
efficient because it uses electrical energy to do that”. This
efficiency is exactly why we can split water into hydrogen and oxygen
and then burn the hydrogen which burns cleaner and more efficiently
than gasoline. Hydrogen Fuel Cell technology is still expensive due
to the expensive material required, hydrogen fueling stations need to
be built, and transportation of hydrogen challenges. However, with
the Water for Fuel kits you are generating hydrogen on the spot, and
in small amounts so the risk of big explosion is minimized.

Going
back to EV1 vehicles, all you had to do was install charges at
regular gasoline stations; no expensive infrastructure buildup
required, compared to hydrogen fueling stations.



Electric cars were available over 100
years ago, before gasoline engines. If we had put more research into
electric vehicles and battery improvements, we would probably have
vehicles that could go several hundreds of miles on a single charge.
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#19 User is offline   Fred112 

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Posted 10 August 2008 - 07:36 PM

Where does the energy come from to split water into hydrogen and oxygen??
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#20 User is online   GCFreak 

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Posted 10 August 2008 - 07:50 PM

At first, the electricity required to split the water can come from a battery or a supercapacitor, and then the power can come from the fuel cells themselves when started.
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