[Klaatu]

Who do I contact regarding an issue I have with this forum? Don't see any forum help thread. Thanks.

[rgreen4]

Klaatu - I have moved your question to the PC Website discussion area. There is not one specifically for the community, and in General Talk, it might be overlooked.

What is the issue you have with the community?

[Klaatu]

Posted a question at http://forums.pcworl.../message/146790 regarding software suggestions for converting .mp4 to DVD and it was closed due to someone's mistaken notion that a movie I downloaded, " "Slacker Uprising," is copy protected material. It is not and is freely available at http://slackeruprising.com/.

Thanks.

[mphenterprises]

Klaatu. First, there is no "mistaken notion" that this movie is copy protected. All motion pictures are protected by this law. Now, had you included the fact that you downloaded the move directly from the movie's website, there would have been no mistaken the issue. That is why we ask for members to provide as much information as possible when submitting Discussions.

However, the same issue holds true. As it stands right now, we cannot assist anyone with this type of conversion until it is cleared by the PCWorld attorneys. Once cleared, we will be able to provide you all the information you need. My suggestion to you until then, "Google is your friend."

[Klaatu]

You were wrong to close my thread.

[mphenterprises]

I understand your frustration; however, until the legality as to whether or not PCWorld as a whole would be liable for allowing that type of discussion to continue has been determined, all Discussions of that nature are closed. If you were to search the Community, you will see that all Discussions of this nature are locked.

Krissy, the Community Manager, is in contact with one of the PCWorld attorneys. If we are given the go ahead to discuss topics of this nature, I will be more than happy to provide any assistance that I can. Until then, the Discussion was locked. If you have any further questions as to why the Discussion is locked, please either ask me, any of the other Member Moderators, or Krissy, the Community Manager.

[Klaatu]

Thanks for the reasoned response.

Ours IS a litigious society so certainly don't want the forum in hot water. Have gotten some good advice from its members so don't want to wear out welcome.

Might as well just use ConvetXtoDVD within the thirty day trial period assuming success since encryption of the mp4 file isn't implied. As noted on the site, the movie was done entirely as a gift to his (Moore's) fans.

[chipbennett]

@Klaatu: Lesson learned - next time, don't mention a movie title; just ask how to convert MP4s to DVD, and don't give unnecesary information.

@MPH: Klaatu has a point; you indicated that you closed his thread because "Slacker Uprising is a copy protected movie. Downloading such movies is against copy protection laws; therefore, any discussion on how to convert the downloaded movie is against the guidelines of PCWorld."

This statement was untrue, and was based on an invalid assumption.

Also, please note:
- "Copy protected" (DRM) is not the same thing as "copyrighted"
- Copy protection laws (DMCA) are not the same as copyright laws.
- Downloading of copyright material is a matter of copyright law, not DMCA.
- Circumventing DRM, by "breaking" the encryption or file-conversion, is a matter of DMCA, not copyright law.

I understand and support PCWorld's position in the matter; however, precision and accuracy in enforcing and explaining that position would be beneficial to the community as a whole.

As Klaatu did not ask a question regarding how to acquire/download copyrighted content illegally, the issue of copyright law is not germane.

Thus, the question is one of applicability of DMCA: is the "Slacker Uprising" MP4 file DRM-protected? If so, then circumventing the DRM is illegal, and discussion thereof would be in violation of PCWorld's community guidelines. If the MP4 is not DRM-protected, then no legal issue exists, and the discussion should be allowed.

[smax013]

chipbennett said:

@Klaatu: Lesson learned - next time, don't mention a movie title; just ask how to convert MP4s to DVD, and don't give unnecesary information.

@MPH: Klaatu has a point; you indicated that you closed his thread because "Slacker Uprising is a copy protected movie. Downloading such movies is against copy protection laws; therefore, any discussion on how to convert the downloaded movie is against the guidelines of PCWorld."

This statement was untrue, and was based on an invalid assumption.

Also, please note:
- "Copy protected" (DRM) is not the same thing as "copyrighted"
- Copy protection laws (DMCA) are not the same as copyright laws.
- Downloading of copyright material is a matter of copyright law, not DMCA.
- Circumventing DRM, by "breaking" the encryption or file-conversion, is a matter of DMCA, not copyright law.

I understand and support PCWorld's position in the matter; however, precision and accuracy in enforcing and explaining that position would be beneficial to the community as a whole.

As Klaatu did not ask a question regarding how to acquire/download copyrighted content illegally, the issue of copyright law is not germane.

Thus, the question is one of applicability of DMCA: is the "Slacker Uprising" MP4 file DRM-protected? If so, then circumventing the DRM is illegal, and discussion thereof would be in violation of PCWorld's community guidelines. If the MP4 is not DRM-protected, then no legal issue exists, and the discussion should be allowed.

As noted, copyright has nominally been "waived". This is from the following page, slackeruprising.com/about.php:



"You have my blanket permission to share the movie with your friends, to set up screenings in your communities or theaters, to show it on your campuses -- all at no charge."



Thus, blanket copyright permission has been given for copying and sharing the movie for all those in the US and Canada. Thus, it would appear as long as the original poster is in the US or Canada, there would be no copyright violations that would get in the way of Community Standards.



I could not, however, find any notice on whether or not the MP4 file has copy-protection in it or not (i.e. DRM). Thus, it is not obvious if DMCA enters into the picture or not. I suppose the only way to know would be to download the movie and "play around" with it to see if you encounter DRM.



FWIW, if there is no DRM, then in theory any standard DVD authoring program should be able to import in the MP4 and then create a DVD from it...assuming that other practical issues don't get in the way (i.e. length of movie being too long for what commercial DVD+/-Rs can handle...older systems could only do 1 hour DVDs).

[mphenterprises]

Hi ChipBennett. I definitely appreciate the added insight and information. Believe me, this issue, not this particular Discussion but the general premise, has been debated as much behind the scenes as well as within the public area.

However, the bigger issue is whether or not PCWorld would be liable for anything discussed within the forum. Once we are given the green light and new policies are in place, then all gloves are off. As I mentioned to Klaatu, I will be more than happy to assist him in regards to this issue if possible. The fact that he mentioned the movie or the movie title is irrelevant. The main point was to convert one form of media into another. I really do not want to debate the differences between copyright laws version copy protection laws or DRM versus DMCA. The bottom line is that the final decision comes from PCWorld staff members and their representatives. If we are told that this topic is off limits in all forms, than unfortunately, the grey area falls to the waste side.

I already have a Document in place that covers issues such as this. Once we are given approval to discuss these types of issues, I will post the Document as well as try to answer any questions that I can. I am sure the other Member Moderators will be just as willing to help. Shoot, I am sure there are numerous people who want to give their two cents but are just waiting for the right chance. Again, thank you for adding your information to this discussion.

[chipbennett]

mphenterprises said:

Hi ChipBennett. I definitely appreciate the added insight and information. Believe me, this issue, not this particular Discussion but the general premise, has been debated as much behind the scenes as well as within the public area.

I'm sure it has, and I'll be interested to see the policy decisions that result!

Quote

However, the bigger issue is whether or not PCWorld would be liable for anything discussed within the forum. Once we are given the green light and new policies are in place, then all gloves are off. As I mentioned to Klaatu, I will be more than happy to assist him in regards to this issue if possible. The fact that he mentioned the movie or the movie title is irrelevant. The main point was to convert one form of media into another. I really do not want to debate the differences between copyright laws version copy protection laws or DRM versus DMCA. The bottom line is that the final decision comes from PCWorld staff members and their representatives. If we are told that this topic is off limits in all forms, than unfortunately, the grey area falls to the waste side.

And again, to reiterate: I understand and support PCWorld's position.

I just think that it is helpful to all, that accurate explanations be given when one's discussion thread is locked.

Your explanation here is different from the one you originally gave him. (The former explanation involved the illegality of a downloaded movie; the latter explanation involved the illegality of converting media formats.) Giving accurate information can help avoid unanswered questions as well as preemptively quell dissent and frustration.

(Though, on the matter of per se illegality of converting media formats, I have to say, "Huh?!?")

Quote

I already have a Document in place that covers issues such as this. Once we are given approval to discuss these types of issues, I will post the Document as well as try to answer any questions that I can. I am sure the other Member Moderators will be just as willing to help. Shoot, I am sure there are numerous people who want to give their two cents but are just waiting for the right chance. Again, thank you for adding your information to this discussion.

Glad to hear it! That's why this community is so great.

[smax013]

mphenterprises said:

Hi ChipBennett. I definitely appreciate the added insight and information. Believe me, this issue, not this particular Discussion but the general premise, has been debated as much behind the scenes as well as within the public area.

However, the bigger issue is whether or not PCWorld would be liable for anything discussed within the forum. Once we are given the green light and new policies are in place, then all gloves are off. As I mentioned to Klaatu, I will be more than happy to assist him in regards to this issue if possible. The fact that he mentioned the movie or the movie title is irrelevant. The main point was to convert one form of media into another. I really do not want to debate the differences between copyright laws version copy protection laws or DRM versus DMCA. The bottom line is that the final decision comes from PCWorld staff members and their representatives. If we are told that this topic is off limits in all forms, than unfortunately, the grey area falls to the waste side.

I already have a Document in place that covers issues such as this. Once we are given approval to discuss these types of issues, I will post the Document as well as try to answer any questions that I can. I am sure the other Member Moderators will be just as willing to help. Shoot, I am sure there are numerous people who want to give their two cents but are just waiting for the right chance. Again, thank you for adding your information to this discussion.

While I have no power (anymore), I have been involved with those past conversation as a former moderator...and I will disagree with my friend [~44270]....not that it matters, per se. This case should not have been locked in my opinion, but I understand why it might have been. With the information available now (which was not really available when the thread was locked) suggests that there was nothing against community standards. There is NOTHING illegal, improper, or wrong about coversion of one video format to another. The only reason the thread should have been locked is if there was questions how to bypass the copy-protection or violate the copyright. Since this is a free available movie that the author has given permission for sharing (i.e. copying), there is no copyright violation. It is unknown if there is copy-protection...if there is, then discussion of circumventing it would be a violation...if not, then no violation. Now, in the moderators' defense, it was apparently not know at the time of the thread being locked that the owner of the copyright had given permission for copying, thus, it is well within reason for the thread to be locked, since it would be natural to assume that at a minimum such a discussion would be discussing violation of a copyright and maybe circumventing copy-protection. With the information now available, however, I would say that there should be nothing wrong with discussing authoring this particular movie to DVD UNLESS it does turn out to have copy-protection on it.