[mandude]

I'm looking for a free backup utility. I have two internal hard drives on my computer, and I want to backup only selected files and folders. There are things on both drives that I want to backup. And I want to use the other hard drive to backup the data. I would also like to schedule the backups to happen every night. Any thoughts? Thanks!

[smax013]

I am assuming your OS is Windoze. If so, which version?

[mandude]

windows xp

[smax013]

You might see if this helps:

[d-1671]



Windoze XP also has a built in backup program...it is not very robust and I have never really used it, but it is free.

[mandude]

Although a good read, that article does not really answer my question. I haven't looked closely yet at XP's backup utility, hoping that there is something better. I will look into that anyway.

[mandude]

I looked at XP's backup feature, I would rather avoid using it. I would really like a backup program to copy the actual files to my other drive, not into a proprietary format.

Any suggestions?

[rgreen4]

I back up my data files from my network drive to an external drive on a wired desktop connected to the network. My backup program - Windows Explorer Drag and Drop. I simply create a new folder (by date) on the 750GB drive and then simply copy all the files over. (Approx 150GB per backup).

Straight forward, simple, cheap and no propietary format. It does that 3 1/2 hours as it's across the network, and the file copy verificiation slows it down some. But, I start it and go to bed. In the morning it's done. It's also easy to verify, and then I shut down the machine and turn off the external drive.

To back up the OS and applications on each machine, I clone the HD to another HD and store the clone. If desired the clone can be substituted for the original and booted to verify that it works before continuing. If doing a major update (like installing an SP or program I'm not sure about, I update and verify the clone and then to the installation/upgrade.

This process is easier if you keep your data separate, preferably on a separate drive. I have kept my data separate for decades (going all the way back to two floppy systems) and find it easier to backup and restore.

[mandude]

that is exactly what i've done in the past, but have been lazy about actually doing it regularly. now I would like something automatic.

[macy1]

Several free utilities will do what you want, which is to sync or backup selected directories/files.MS Powertoys synctoy, qbackup, secondcopy, syncback, all freeware, all work very well.
I use the free edition of SyncBack for a number of my clients for scheduled backup and sync with excellent results. As mentioned above, best practice is to reconfigure your HD to three partitions, C for XP plus D for data/file, E for backups plus sync an external USB HD to mirror the E backup partition. (Change CD/DVD to M or N drive)



Note that a file sync/backup solution won't allow to retore a complete copy of your C drive should the PC become infected or fail. For that purpose, the best solution I've found workable is Drive Snapshot. It's cheap but not free, but it works very well. Takes a bit of practice to learn how use it properly and to do a C drive restoral, but it's worth the effort. (Alternate method for C drive image copy would use older versions of Ghost or the G4U freeware, takes a lot more effort than Drive Snapshot.)

[smax013]

macy1 said:

Several free utilities will do what you want, which is to sync or backup selected directories/files.MS Powertoys synctoy, qbackup, secondcopy, syncback, all freeware, all work very well.

Synctoy is free and it will "automatically" sync (aka backup) stuff if you consider "automatic" to mean running the backup at the push of a "button" but NOT on an automatic schedule...at least on its own. Synctoy will NOT run on a schedule on its own...but you can setup a schedule using Windoze Scheduler to run Synctoy "fully" automatically (i.e. a backup to run at a predetermined time unattended).

macy1 said:

I use the free edition of SyncBack for a number of my clients for scheduled backup and sync with excellent results. As mentioned above, best practice is to reconfigure your HD to three partitions, C for XP plus D for data/file, E for backups plus sync an external USB HD to mirror the E backup partition. (Change CD/DVD to M or N drive)

Best practice would not be to backup to a partition on the same drive. While such a practice is better than NO backup at all, if the physical hard drive bits the dust, then ALL partitions are toast and your "backup" is gone to. Best practce is to have a compeletely separate hard drive (or flash drive or set of optical disks, etc) that you back up your files to. While your suggestion does basically do that (i.e. you have a partition for backup AND an external drive), the backup partition is kind of a waste of space.

[mandude]

So far, SyncBack is seeming to work out well. Thanks!

[macy1]

Clarification Again, strongly suggest you separte data/files onto a D drive from the Windows C drive. The idea here is to keep your files/data off the C because its the one most at risk of failure from a windows problem or malware. Setup a third partition E if you can, but it's a bonus only if you have a large enough HD. In all cases, an external drive should be used for both an image copy (or two) of your C drive (often called a clone) plus a copy of all your directories/data files. I'd put these in separate directories on the external drive.


We use SyncBack and Drive Snapshot with external drives for all our smaller clients. This setup has saved any number of clients problems when windows failed, HD crashed and even once when a laptop was lost/stolen. Several clients now use an inexpensive network shared drive, such as a SimpleShare, for much faster backup than USB and plus we can backup several PCs into it. A few clients even use an additional external HD and keep it offsite to guard against theft/fire/loss.



Perhaps I'm giving away too many of my consulting "secrets" here... but SyncBack has proven to be a fine freeware program, some clients have even upgraded to the very slick paid version. Hope it works as well for you.

[rgreen4]

I agree with Smax that a separate data partition and a backup partition on the same drive will not do the job. The idea of a separate data partition is good, you can do the same thing with simply setting up a Data folder and then sub-folders for the programs or data type from that. Then you simply back up the data folder. I have this basic structure as below:

!http://forums.pcworld.com/legacyimages/
1!

Now mine obviously is not on my C: drive, and there are other first level folders, but you get the idea. This solves the problem of what do you do if you set the data partition too small and run out of room.

For the back up to be effective, it must be physically separate from the original files. If you had the capability that many Corporations do, you would even remove the backup to a separate location. That is part of their disaster preparation. If you want a good example, think Galveston, Tx. If a small business or person had the backup physically in the same computer, they would have to take the computer or lose everything. An external drive or flash drive if the data files are small enough, can easily be grabbed and carried with you. If the HD encounters a physical crash, everything on that drive is gone, unless you want to spend large dollars for a pro to recover them.

A good procedure would be to back up to a very small external drive, something like the WD Passport, and do that on a weekly basis. Then take the drive with you and put it in a safe deposit box. The nice thing about those small external drives based on notebook drives, is they only need a USB connection. And they will fit easily in a SD box, even the smallest. This is real handy if the bank is handy.

[smax013]

macy1 said:

Good follow up. Was trying to avoid a lengthy post, I did not make this clear. A USB drive should be used for both an image copy of your C drive (often called a clone) plus a copy of all your directories/data files. I'd put these in separate directories on the external drive.





We do this with SyncBack and Drive Snapshot for all our clients, has saved any number of clients problems when windows failed, HD crashed and even once when a laptop was lost/stolen. Several clients now use an inexpensive network shared drive, such as a SimpleShare for much faster backup than USB and backup several PC to it.






Perhaps I'm giving away too many of my consultanting "secrets" here...

That is WAY different than paritioning the main drive to have a "backup" partition. I agree it might have just been a lack of clarity (you did suggest to do the partition AND the external drive...so you did mention the external drive).



I agree your method is good...it is essentially what I do. I actually clone my OS/program drive to a second physical drive of the same size...this actually allows me to physically swap out the main drive with a exact copy if it goes bad...something that can literally take moments to do. Then I have a WHOLE seperate backup system for my file, which reside on an NAS with RAID 1 (I then "copy" that to a pair of internal drives setup also in RAID 1 AND to an external drive).

[macy1]

Worthwhile discussion here. Everyone has their own preferences on how they go about backup, and it's up to the user to make an informed choice. Our thinking is that we try to keep the C drive as windows and programs only, this makes for a smaller C backup image and less to restore after a failure. Keeping the data and files on a separate NTFS filesyste on a separate partition means we don't have to deal with as many corrupted database and spreasheet files when a trojan corrupts the windows os in the C. As they say elsewhere, YMMV.



No matter what, always, always backup early and often plus test your backup to be sure it's good. That's why I like file sync backups, you can see and read the files and logs. IMHO, a good backup makes hardware more reliable. Seem like a backed up system seldom failed, but a system without backup will dropout at the worst possible time.



Personally, I think something in the system can sense weakness or fear... kinda like copiers, they go down only when your in a rush to do something important.

[smax013]

macy1 said:

Worthwhile discussion here. Everyone has their own preferences on how they go about backup, and it's up to the user to make an informed choice. Our thinking is that we try to keep the C drive as windows and programs only, this makes for a smaller C backup image and less to restore after a failure. Keeping the data and files on a separate NTFS filesyste on a separate partition means we don't have to deal with as many corrupted database and spreasheet files when a trojan corrupts the windows os in the C. As they say elsewhere, YMMV.





No matter what, always, always backup early and often plus test your backup to be sure it's good. That's why I like file sync backups, you can see and read the files and logs. IMHO, a good backup makes hardware more reliable. Seem like a backed up system seldom failed, but a system without backup will dropout at the worst possible time.






Personally, I think something in the system can sense weakness or fear... kinda like copiers, they go down only when your in a rush to do something important.

Oh, don't get me wrong...I fully believe in the seperate partition for files...I was more "dickering" with the THIRD partition that you mentioned for the sync backup. That seems a waste to me.



Personally, I actually go one step further. I have one DRIVE JUST for the OS and programs. I then keep my files on a completely separate drive. This allows me to clone the OS/program drive (and no data files) and then use a separate backup system for the data files.

[smax013]

rgreen4 said:

The nice thing about those small external drives based on notebook drives, is they only need a USB connection.

Not always...some USB ports don't supply enough power alone for such drives. There are lots of computers where you have to use TWO USB ports or one USB port with an external power supply for the drive for such drives. This is why Firewire portable bus powered drive are better than USB portable bus powered drives (and because Firewire is faster too)...NEVER, EVER need more than one Firewire port to power a Firewire portable bus powered drive.

[macy1]

bq. [quote smax013] ... I actually clone my OS/program drive to a second physical drive of the same size...this actuallyallows me to physically swap out the main drive with a exact copy if it goes bad...something that can literally take moments to do. Then I have a WHOLE seperate backup system for my file, which reside on an NAS withRAID 1 (I then "copy" that to a pair of internal drives setup also in RAID 1 AND to an external drive).
bq. We do something very similar to this on all our servers, always use RAID1 plus clone an extra OS drive for fast restoral in the event of a system crash. We then use Drive Snapshot to keep restorable images on an external drive (or NAS) of some type. Hard drives are now cheap and you can never have too many copies on hand. For data use SyncBack, but we stop any database apps/servers before backing up, then restat them. That's easy with SyncBack's ability to run a script or batch file before and after a sheduled job.