[leroyjones]

Me too. I am keeping my XP-Pro disk handy! I switched to Vista Business Edition. I am a professional videographer and own a video production company. We use Adobe Creative Suite CS 3. Running the 34 bit version of Vista, some Adobe programs ran, others not at all. Adobe was less than helpful, and both Adobe and Windows Tech Support have fled to India.

Not that I have anything against Indians, but trying to decipher their dialect left me exhausted at the end of a session, and they read straight from a manual. If it isn't in the manual, they have no fix. There is no software engineer to talk to that understands the OS and its nuances. That alone made me seriously consicer buying a Mac. Microsoft, if you are reading this IT SUCKS! Adobe that goes for you TOO!

I would get one thing fixed and Adobe would bring out an update and it wouldn't run under Vista, and furthermore, caused some other Adobe app to fail. Yes this is an Adobe/Vista problem, but since I have a gazillion dollars invested in their software and PC platforms, it did not make economic sense for me to switch to Apple.

Long story short, I wasted a full month on trying to make Adobe work under Vista. Finally had to reinstall XP-Pro which meant formatting my hard drives and reinstalling EVERYTHING from scratch, re-setting up my networks, security etc. I lost a ton of money and time having to do this.

I will wait until I can go someplace and actually SEE Adobe running on Win 7 before I buy it, as Adobe will lie to you as I sadly found out. In the meantime a POX ON BOTH OF THEIR HOUSES!

[TechieXP]

I think teh rule of thumb is, if teh program wasn't designed to work with a particular OS...then don't install. I was running Dreamweaver 8 and Flash 7 in XP...and I had just switched to Adobe CS2. They are all designed for XP. I did however install them in Vista. Dreamweaver worked fine...Flash however had some issues but it did work often enough. The main incompatibility I noticed is that it worked better when Aero Glass was off. But again I expected problems bec those progras were designed for XP. So in you case, it was actually your own fault. Not Adobe's fault or Microsoft's fault. I do however agree with you on some things you said about Adobe. Even when I was using XP they couldn't help e with some problems. But we all have to be reasonable. If it wasn't designed to work in Vista you van't expect it too. Just bec Diesel is a type of gas, doesn't mean it will work in your car if your engine wasn't designed to do so.

This is where most Windows users wreck havoc on themselves. They try to install progs not meant for that OS. Yes both XP and Vista have 32 and 64bit platforms. But it is obvious they aren't teh same. The OS doesn't even look the same. Should be a strong enough deterrant. But even if MS places on teh box in big red bold letters...Windows 7 - DON'T INSTALL XP APPLICATIONS, THEY WON'T WORK.. People will still do it. What is teh point of placing info on a box if ppl arent going to read it.

[waldojim]

I am the only one here who thinks that this person is a moron? " Vista runs much better on my Mac then on my more powerful pc." Umm, your mac IS a PC! its the same processor (Intel C2D) running the same video cards, and the same ram. If it runs better than your PC, then next time buy a better PC! trying to give us some crap about a Mac being faster than a PC running the SAME OS is just retarded.



You know - I think I am done with pc world: the people here are too stupid to be alive.

[JustDoIt]

It's so simple. The only reason you think a particular person is a moron is because it takes one to know one, and yes the world would probably be better off without you're non-sense. Have a nice trip pal....

[TechieXP]

NO STAY! Haha. It is however a fact Apple found a way to tweak PC hardware to squeexe out some extra performance. But it isn't that much of a difference Mac users. Mac are in fact elegantly skinned PC that don't truly offer more. I still don't understand, if Windows is so bad why on earth would you ruin a Mac that you claim is so perfect. That's as stupid as Mercedes buying Chrysler. An guss what, Windows is just as easy to plague on a Mac as a PC, bec like it is said...is is a PC. Same hardware. That means you still have to get Norton, Anti-Spyware...etc. In other words...The Mac is a lexus but it is still a Toyota. Just bec you dress it up that doesn't change what it is. And while you all are trying to bash Windows 7 before it even is close to being release, you Apple-Heads will be teh first to brag about how great it runs on a Mac.

The funniest thing that happen to me was this girl said PC's were made of inferior hardware, and teh very next day Steve anounce Apple was going x86. What a slap in the face. The leaders of teh computer hardware generation succumbed to the all-time proponent of the fruits of the laborer.



Hey Steve I have a few questions? Don't you think in the world of so much multimedia that if you make a laptop that cost $2700 should it have a CDROM dr? Steve's anser 'I'. So then why doesn't it have one then?

Hey Steve did you know that Intel Xeon processor was meant to be used in highend servers and not typically is a desktop CPU? Steve's answer 'I'. So Steve why did you do it.

Hey Steve why can't you admit that when you made the first Mac that cost almost $2500 that the harddish should have been able to hold more than 100MB of data? Steve's answer 'I'. So why didn't you make a bigger one?

Hey Steve, even though you animately stated in an interview that Microsoft has no taste, that you said that bec you bitterly hate the man and that it practically killed you to announe in 1997 that you had to do a deal with teh devil in order to save your dying company? Steve's answer 'I'.

Steve do you have any last words...? Steve says, imac, ipod, itouch, iphone...thus i-exist. Thank you an goodnight!

I'm a Chicagoan...before Mac will truly be better than Windows...first the Cub would have to win a World Series, it will stop snowing here, Lake Michigan will turn into saltwater and Microsoft will finally make their own PC's.

Apple has made an awesome contribution to teh world of computer technology. Problem is, they didn't materialize until it ended up on a PC. Isn't that amazing. Firewire and USB...both found on a Mac...PC has 100's of devices that make use of it...Mac...only a hand-full. Some one in this thread talked about the Mouse. Wasn't that invebeted by Xerox...? And so was the GUI? The mouse of teh PC has found more usage including good at video games...oh i forgot WOW is the only game natively running on the mac that is very popular. And Mac monitors...very crisp color...but the price of a 24 inch rivals teh cost of my 42inch hdtv from LG...

[Eruaran]

How are those shiny new Dell notebooks going guys ? I'm sure SteveB and Co. are happy that they're getting their money's worth out of you.

[Patchiz]

lmao. funny funny marioJp

[JaywalkerExtraordinaire]

{quote}More Vista bashing, and from a Mac User? Surprise, surprise. Vista isn't a terrible OS, in fact it's actually one of the best iterations of Windows.{quote}

In some respects, particularly security, I agree. Vista is a huge improvement over XP with respect to security. In other respects, such as efficiency, Vista has been a dismal failure. It may be fine if you are running the latest, greatest hardware, but on the budget machines of 2007, and to a slightly lesser extent, today, it simply requires too many resources to run well at an acceptable speed.

{quote}Congrats on your Mac, you must be an individual. You spent three times the amount of money to do the same thing with your Mac that I can do with my PC, not to mention the fact that the hardware under the hood is generally total garbage.{quote}

Apparently you haven't closely examined Apple hardware in the past few years. Unless you're another wannabe geek who thinks CPU speed, RAM, and HDD capacity are the most important specs necessary to compare hardware, you would be aware that Apple hardware is priced quite competitively compared to competitors such as Dell and HP.

{quote}Mac's are good for people who don't really have a practical use for a computer other then surfing the internet, checking their e-mail, and multimedia editing (be it video or image, but I would like to remind you that both are easily do able with a Windows Based PC).{quote}

Please, tell me, what do you think you can do on your PC that I can't do on a Mac? (I will grant you that I have to turn the latest, most demanding games' settings down to medium in order to get them to play well on my MacBook Pro, but I didn't buy it to game with.) Considering that Mac OS X is a UNIX? operating system, you'll likely find more stuff you can do in OS X that you can't easily do with Windows than vice versa, if you actually wanted to explore the full capabilities of each platform, and not just play video games. And, for those very few things that Windows does better than *nix OS's, such as gaming, Macs are quite capable of either booting Windows or running Windows as a virtual machine.

Having said that ?

Windows 7 looks very promising. Where Vista imitated the appearance and features of OS X in many ways, Windows 7 promises to mimic the functionality and ease of use (at least according to the information provided in the article). That should help to provide more cohesiveness to the OS. I'm looking forward to trying the release version. I hope it is as good as this article suggests that it could be.

[JaywalkerExtraordinaire]

{quote}The rep said that if the hard drive goes,you have to buy another Mac, and there are certain parts that cannot be upgraded at all along with the hard drive.{quote}

BS. Apple doesn't offer a single Mac for which a hard drive can't be replaced. Not one.

[waldojim]

I cannot believe that I am even going to get into this... but: damn you mac users!

To debunk your bit about the hardware affecting cost or rather " Unless you're another
wannabe geek who thinks CPU speed, RAM, and HDD capacity are the most
important specs necessary to compare hardware" Very simple; if I compare a Dell VS a Dell or even Dell VS HP, there are 4 things that controll the price: these things are 1. CPU 2. RAM 3. HDD Space 4. Video card (to some very small extent the display size - though anymore, that is usually a result of 3 and 4 in the event the system is either raid, or has a nice little 9800m in there). So, YES the above 4 mentioned items are first on my list.... I would never by a machine (mac or otherwise) that had an Intel Pentium Dual Core, or Intel Celeron for example. And there are definate pricing differences as you reach higher end Intel C2D chips.

Also - look into this thing jokinly reffered to as the Apple Tax http://gizmodo.com/5...t-the-apple-tax

AS to Mac OSX Vs Windows: I really don't care if you CAN do the things you say you can, can you do it as cheaply, and can you find it locally? I can go to wal-mart and get a copy of office, I can go to wal-mart for the latest games, I can go to Best Buy or even Office Max for the latest copy of Adobe CS all for the PC and never for the Mac. If I want Mac software, I need to prep myself for an all day affair so that I can go to Microcenter for it. Oh yeah, and I don't know about you guys, but I DO like to play games on my machine, even my laptop. and there are MANY games that don't work with a Mac. Don't even try to deny it. Its just like linux, I have to keep Windows floating around, for those games I cannot seem to Wine.



anyhow, I think I am done for now

[JaywalkerExtraordinaire]

{quote}That's what makes Macs so great. It is a no brainer computer. Because ppl who are smart can't use them, because they are smart enough to know a mac can't do what a pc does that is why we dont by them. {quote}

You do realize that most real geeks don't use Windows unless they're gaming or being paid for it, right? Real geeks use nix operating systems, and consider Windows to be for gamers and people who don't do enough with their machines to need the power that nix OS's offer.

{quote}Steve Jobs said Microsoft has no taste.{quote}

Actually, Bill Gates, at the D5 conference, said he wished he had Steve Jobs' taste:

"Well, I?d give a lot to have Steve?s taste. He has natural?it?s not a joke at all. I think in terms of intuitive taste, both for people and products, you know, we sat in Mac product reviews where there were questions about software choices, how things would be done that I viewed as an engineering question, you know, and that?s just how my mind works. And I?d see Steve make the decision based on a sense of people and product that, you know, is even hard for me to explain. The way he does things is just different and, you know, I think it?s magical. And in that case, wow." --Bill Gates, May 30, 2007

[JaywalkerExtraordinaire]

{quote}You in fact cannot replace a harddrive in aolder mac unless it was the exact match and even then it is a pain. ? And guess what I don't own a mac and i know it is a fact. bec i've fixed them.{quote}

Wrong. I've replaced Macs' hard drives on multiple occasions, with multiple PPC (and Intel) Macs, always with a larger drive.

[JustDoIt]

I can't believe you are still posting any comments on PC World. I thought you said you were not going to get involved in any more conversations. I'm just quoting your words!

[JaywalkerExtraordinaire]

{quote}To debunk your bit about the hardware affecting cost or rather " sic]
?
Also - look into this thing jokinly reffered to as the Apple Tax http://gizmodo.com/5...pple-tax{quote}

I hate to inform you of this, but the folks at Gizmodo, as well as their sister publications (e.g. Lifehacker) aren't exactly tech savvy. They're geek wannabes. I've done several cost comparisons, and the "Apple tax" tends to buy things like more L2 cache, faster FSB, more advanced networking protocol compatibility, higher quality, higher resolution screens, faster RAM, etc. In fairness, Apple did have a "BlackBook" tax. Largely, when comparing like hardware, Macs are available at competitive prices (sometimes, but certainly not always cheapest), as the Gizmodo blog post's charts indicate (despite listing incomplete specs). It's unfortunate their bloggers don't know enough about technology to accurately interpret their own data in their article's text.

Incidentally, I paid less than $2200 for my new 2.8 GHz MBP (purchased direct from Apple), and then, on ebay, sold the 15 month old MacBook that it replaced for about $150 less than the total I paid for it new from Apple (at a great price) plus upgraded hard drive and RAM. Please, tell us what other manufacturers produce C2D/SuperDrive/Gigabit/802.11n laptops with a total cost of ownership of only $10 per month. So, what was that you were saying about Macs being overpriced?

For a more detailed cost comparison that includes more Mac models, see this [Tom's Hardware article

[waldojim]

so you found a retard willing to pay full price for an old note book - Hell I can do that.... all I have to do is look around

Now then - for the sake of comparison - a MBP 17" with a C2D 9400 and an 8600Mgt (so sad), 4GB of ram, and a 320 HDD - is selling for $2700!!!! holy crap!

on the other hand, I can get an Asus notebook with an Intel C2d 9400 and a 9800Mgs with 4Gb of ram, and a 320 Hdd, etc for $1649..... somehow - I think I just saved $1000 and got a better machine. - Windows can be removed in all of 5 minutes.... and then life is grand!

Sorry dude - Macs cost more. Period. Its a fact of life, and once upon a time it was worth the extra money. (back when they had things like SCSI)... as of recently - they are selling you a name, and if you are dumb enough to buy the name, that is on you!

I am enjoying my hp dv51003nr with opensuse, and enjoying that my hp cost $500 (w/blu-ray) Find me a mac with blu-ray for $500.

[JaywalkerExtraordinaire]

{quote}so you found a retard willing to pay full price for an old note book - Hell I can do that.... all I have to do is look around{quote}

Read more carefully. I sold it on ebay. By the very nature of ebay, it sold for fair market value. Apple's have a high resale value for very good reason.

{quote}Now then - for the sake of comparison - a MBP 17" with a C2D 9400 and an 8600Mgt (so sad), 4GB of ram, and a 320 HDD - is selling for $2700!!!! holy crap!

on the other hand, I can get an Asus notebook with an Intel C2d 9400 and a 9800Mgs with 4Gb of ram, and a 320 Hdd, etc for $1649..... somehow - I think I just saved $1000 and got a better machine. - Windows can be removed in all of 5 minutes.... and then life is grand! {quote}



Someone else who doesn't understand technical specifications well enough to make meaningful comparisons. Let's see the tech specs of that "equivalent" Asus. I notice, also, that you avoided making any comparison to the recently updated 15 inch MBP's, and instead attempted to distort your comparison with the soon to be updated, but currently still previous generation spec 17 inch model. Not that I expect ingenuous arguments from Apple haters.

{quote}Sorry dude - Macs cost more. Period.{quote}

Not when compared to like hardware. Sorry, but that's a fact. You can complain about Apple's overpriced hardware all you want, but until you can provide links to an equivalent machine for significantly less, your assertion is baseless. Even the Gizmodo blog post indicated competitive pricing when the actual data is examined. When total cost of ownership is considered, Macs often come out much cheaper. (I'm still waiting for you to show us that laptop with TCO of less than $10 per month.)

{quote}if you are dumb enough to buy the name, that is on you!{quote}

I pay for quality. If people are naive enough to believe that CPU architecture, amount of RAM, video card and hard drive speed are all that is necessary to make a meaningful comparison of different machines, then they might believe the bogus claims of Apple hardware being overpriced. Those of us who actually know a little bit about hardware know that such claims are indeed unjustified.

I'm glad you are happy with your HP. I wasn't in the market for an entry level budget notebook such as the DV5-1003NR this year or last, but if that is all the performance you need, then it sounds like you got a good price.

[TechieXP]

God bless you. A Mac user always try to run the price game. This is proof you can and I have said can get a system spec'd higher than a mac for the the same cost. Yes as stated it does depend on th OEM. But I went a step further. I looked at Alienware which like Dell XPS ie a Rolls Royce everything laptop and is teh only laptop where you can chage the video adapter. I know you can in others if you know how, but Aliensware make this as part of the design. You can still oe spec'd better then an high ended mac...and Alienware even offer dual cards on laptops...as far as I know and I could be wrong...and I didn't look...but I don't believe that do.

Another fact I said is in order to upgrade a mac it means buying a new mac. Yes some later macs allow upgrading of maybe 2 or 3 things inside. In OEM branded desktops and you can upgrade teh cpu however there maybe a lock to prevet you from goingup to a certain speed. I had a dell that came with a PIII 800...I was able to upgrade to a 1.2.

And what you said about software is a fact. Which means price of ownership of a mac is way more expensive because what you don't spend on the physical system or the software you will spend trying to find it. Even at Apple store the only software you find is the 'I' stuff and Office for teh Mac. Guess what I can get all of those at Best Buy too. But you can't get Macs other stuff. So mucg for one stop shop.

Yes Windows has its trouble...and yes MS can do batter...but no matter what a mac users says switching really isn't a good option. And that goes triple for Linux. Las I check Best Buy doesn't sell any Linux software...because if they did...it wouldn't see. But not because no one knows about it as some one tried to get me to believe. Its bec when you have what works nothing else matters.

[techie4fun]

JaywalkerExtraordinaire said:

In some respects, particularly security, I agree. Vista is a huge improvement over XP with respect to security. In other respects, such as efficiency, Vista has been a dismal failure. It may be fine if you are running the latest, greatest hardware, but on the budget machines of 2007, and to a slightly lesser extent, today, it simply requires too many resources to run well at an acceptable speed.

I don't even know why you bother calling it a failure when all that's required from the user is a system upgrade and you've thrown the failure option out of the window. It's expected to have a fast machine to run Vista , and if you aren't running what's required, it seems like the users problem too me.

Too many resources to run at an acceptable speed : DUH. Upgrade your older systems. If that isn't good enough for you, go find something else to complain about.

[TechieXP]

I saw that video on youtube. and Bill saying it was to let Steve know hey I saw that too.

First of all Form and Function will always beat elegants and beauty...just as brains always beats brawn. Taste isn't that import. You know water is tasteless and odoless naturally but yet without it no matter how much food you eat you will die. And when it comes to food, the ones that are the best for you have teh worse or no taste. Again to me to contiue to say by teh other guys are so much better is such a waste. But i love it to. Again we always hear how PC need to step up to Macs. Really? Well lets see...if i get tired of Windows I can still use my same pc and install linux without needing any special software. Can you do that on a Mac?

Steve raved for years how macs hardware was so superior to pc...or really? then why did you switch to what we have if what you had was better. Talk about putting your foot in your own mouth. And teh only reason you are even still here is bec MS gets enough carp from teh DOJ and so Bill public enemy #1 save you from killing off yourself.

I love Apple...they are very innovative and a lot of thought goes into there work. If MS did that we would even need you here to see how mucg Windows really could and shoyld be better. I use to tease and say Windows is just Mac OS written in another language. Yes Mac can do many thinks about pc...but when you total it all out head to head...Windows is better dispite its flaws. And Linux is not even better than MAC OS.

Many of Apple great work appears in some form on the pc and we make better use for it. USB, Firewire both appeared on a mac...how many devices does Apple have that make use of them? As far as I can tell its almost none. Nothing beyond a few extras that in many cases on work with an Apple....isn't that a form of monopoly? Wouldn't it be nice if we could use Apple hardware with a pc...but you can. However most pc hardware natively will work with a mac in the same way it works for us....yet you say you are better.

That is as crazy as teh browser war where 3 top browsers were tested and IE had less users issues and less bugs but yet it rated last? So that means a B is a lesser grade than a d or f?

Then all that is left is slandering or throwing mudd. Look at teh apple commercials. They are funny at best but they prove nothing. Again i see right here on pcworld many users who did by and apple bec they didn't want vista and fine teh apple is no more then an appliance thats sits idle on the table. and many now have tried vista and found it is a great os and that much of teh bad pass press doesn't matter.

The main things we all can agree on is MS can and needs to do better. NOW! If Apple and Linux disappeared right now it would matter...if Windows disappeared right now teh world would almost die as it would take years before Linux or Mac OS could be a viable sub. Just like gays saying how much impact you have on the economy. Really? Image if every heterosexual took off for a day and lets see how much they get done. See stuff that doesn't work well always has to draw more attention to itself by undercutting something else. Windows doesn't need to even advertise. I think MS is only advertising Vista to help ppl who didnt jump on to it...to give it another chance and many who did arent disappointed.

[TechieXP]

I like you. Whatever you do don't leave. ...As I told him already a MBA is $2700...i was incuding teh tax. For a pc laptop I can get better for $2700 including tax.

Alienware has a latop I just price that cost $2800 putting it in teh same range as teh Air. And you get way more. That is what you call GETTING WHAT YOU PAY FOR.