[brucec30]

I have an HP 6180 multifunction which I kind of like. It tells me the cartridges are low and need to be replaced. I will usually ignore the message and tell it to go on (hey, I have owned laundromats in the past, that teaches you to be cheap). It will let me do this for a while and then it totally shuts down and will not allow printing at all. I have never tried to shake the cartridge before, I always thought it knew it was the same cartridge by chips inside of it. I will try the shaking next time but I also don't print alot (as mentioned earlier, I am cheap, why print when you don't have to). Keep in mind, I am also trying to save paper which isn't free.

I do like the printer though it seems to waste color. When I am printing B&W and a color cartridge is low/empty, I can only tell it to print in B&W for so long before it will shut me down in that mode also.

[brucec30]

Sorry, just went into the kitchen to get some water and saw other things that are similiar.

Everything has expiration dates now days. Sodas, beer, all canned goods. The sodas do go flat (don't remember this as a child, 40 years ago), soda would last forever. The canned foods have an expiration date though the can top is not at all raised indicating spoilage. Same with prescriptions, one year after purchase it is bad, well, how long did it sit at the pharmacy?

I know a number of people that throw stuff away when it has reached its "expiration date". I have prescriptions as well as over the counter stuff that expired some time ago, I don't throw it out because they tell me to. This is only to increase their profit. Remember the shampoo directions? Shampoo once, rinse, repeat. Why do you think you have to repeat (I have when my hair is very bad, this is maybe 2% of the time). I use to own laundromats, wow, if I could only convince people to wash clothes once, then repeat. My income would have been great.

[scger]

The study reported appears valid and the results appear reasonable. My experience with HP printers agrees with your reported results. However, I think the price of ink is probably a more important issue than how much may be left in a cartridge, if the performance of a cartridge is consistent with the vendor's claims. You might want to do an investigation of the components that influence the price of ink and cartridges with an eye toward determining whether the prices are justifiable. Another angle of interest would be the fate of recycled cartridges. HP, for example, provides postage for returning exhausted cartridges, with an implication that this action helps to protect the environment. It would be interesting to know what risks used cartridges floating around in the waste stream might represent, if any.

[pcg208]

I have an HP C3180 all-in-one printer that I bought from Costco a year ago for only $65! My only complaint is that it uses a tiny black and a tiny tricolor cartridge. Also, I am a highschooler and I do a lot of my homework on the computer, then print it out. In addition, even when I several weeks without printing color, I find that as the black ink goes down, the color ink also very slightly goes down. I have had to replace my black ink five times this last year, and my color ink about three times, which is expensive, even though I buy a combo pack of 2 blacks and 1 tricolor from Costco for $42.99. However, one thing I do like is that my printer does not shut down when there is a low ink message. The ink just slowly fades out. Nevertheless, I agree with PCW that I am not convinced that all of the ink is being used; I think about 10% of the cartridge still remains.

[kcs3295]

I have two RX580 Epson and I know the ink continues to run lower without ever using the thing. The cartridges read the pc's time and lowers the ink as time moves forward.
I left my printer off for several weeks and when I turned it on - the ink report was considerably lower. They just rip-off the consumer.
Several state attorney generals have filed class action suites and Epson has paid millions more than once to the consumers, but they continue to screw their trusting customers.
I'm glad I kept 2 old printers which I use and I'm looking for a way to disable Windows Time function in XP & Vista - Vista refuses via msconfig, services.msc, & the registry entries. Vista has two clocks and the (defined as) internal cannot be stopped. So thank you again Bill Gates and bloodsucking M$ & Epson. I will never buy a new printer until this is resolved. I pickup older printers that offer good resolution.

On the advise of a PC World article, I went to Cartridge World where they claim to disable the time reading function of the chip in their refilled cartridges. The ink maybe OK for many printers but their Claira replacement cardtidges are a joke. Clogging in a few weeks requiring head cleaning before the RX580 can print anything.

Playing with XP now to stop the clock on my pc that I will print cd's with a dedicated printer. Also ebay nows has a chip resetter for 9 pin RX580 series cartridges. I bought one at prox $12 but have not used it as yet.
And how about the pollution to our planet with ink cartridges in the landfill - there must be some power somewhere to stop these greedy manufacturers.

Anyone able to stop the Window's Time function?

Ken

[szschulman]

I am a disabled individual living on social security and have spent a fortune on HP and non brand names for my personal home printer HP photosmart C3180. The ink doesnot last have tried all your inovative suggestions and find that the money spent could have bought several times over a printer,computer,notebook etc. This is a shame since I do like to print out various types of information from my computer and notebook. I am looking for a reasonable suggestion on a new printer that will give me sufficient ink print out. Please advise. Susan Schulman email szschulman@aol.com

[StevenBerk2]

Good morning:

I saw your recent post and i had some questions, because your experience does not seem to match the results of the test in the article. First, full disclosure: I am an attorney based in Washington, DC specializing in consumer protection. After years of government service at the SEC and the Department of Justice, I am now a private attorney bringing cases on behalf of consumers; for years i have been prosecuting a case against HP for its deceptive and erroneous "low on ink warnings". The PC World Article concludes that the Canon Printers SHUT DOWN with significant ink remaining. Your experience, however, sounds different. It sounds like you are able to ignore an low on ink warnings and continue to print -- until the cartridge is "empty". Is that right? Have you actually tried to see how much ink is in your cartridge when you can no longer print.

I am about filing cases that make a difference and in a perfect world achieve justice for consumers (getting full value) and for companies by adopting best practices. If you can help me sort out the Canon mechanism and, in fact, whether you and many others pay for ink you do not receive, i'd be grateful for your input.

Thanks

Steve

[StevenBerk2]

Good morning:
I saw your recent post and i had some questions, because your experience does not seem to match the results of the test in the article. First, full disclosure: I am an attorney based in Washington, DC specializing in consumer protection. After years of government service at the SEC and the Department of Justice, I am now a private attorney bringing cases on behalf of consumers; for years i have been prosecuting a case against HP for its deceptive and erroneous "low on ink warnings". The PC World Article concludes that the Canon Printers SHUT DOWN with significant ink remaining. Your experience, however, sounds different. It sounds like you are able to ignore an low on ink warnings and continue to print -- until the cartridge is "empty". Is that right? Have you actually tried to see how much ink is in your cartridge when you can no longer print.

I am about filing cases that make a difference and in a perfect world achieve justice for consumers (getting full value) and for companies by adopting best practices. If you can help me sort out the Canon mechanism and, in fact, whether you and many others pay for ink you do not receive, i'd be grateful for your input.

Thanks

Steve

[jfmcrazy]

See my post #37 for some possible help.

[actor]

Good Morning back to you Steve.

As stated in my message, I have three HP inkjet printers and unless there is a problem with the cartridge, I can print to a point where the ink fades away.

This is especially true on my HP 7310 all in one. My HP B8850 is too new to claim that will be the case in all of my cartridge use with this printer, but I have so far run one cartridge to an apparent end of the ink in it judging by the paper that printed out. My HP cp1700, most of the time will print out also, although it will at times refuse to print indicating the cartridge is empty. I have had this occur when I have replaced the cartridge with what was suppose to be a new cartridge, but with an out of date time indicated. An HP tech suggested I put these cartridges in a baggie with a damp paper towel to moisten the ink. It seemed to work, but I could not get past the "Out of date" recognition that was embedded in the cartridge. I complained to HP pointing out I had just purchased these cartridges from them and they replaced them.

I do not have any Canon printers at this time and haven't for 9 or 10 years.

I also have never tried to open a cartridge to see what is left in the ink supply, although some years back I did try refilling the cartridges. I will try opening one of my "empty" cartridges and see what is in the ink well. I'll advise what I find.

David Rees

[roge05156]

I have run my Canon Pixma MP500 with the low ink warning and still was
able to print.When it said out of ink,the cartridge was empty,but possibly some
still in the sponge.I re-fill my cartridges,but the chip in the cartridges
that warn of ink levels can't be reset and wil always say LOW INK even when cartridge is full.

Rodger

[bdkennedy1]

What it this "there must be some factor of safety" garbage? 10 years ago when ink ran out, the printed page had lines going across it and you simply replaced the cartridge and surprise! The printer wasn't destroyed. The only "damage" occurred to one sheet of paper.

Printer damage from dry ink is just propaganda to scare the consumer into replacing the cartridge before it runs dry.

Cartridge manufacturers should be required to manufacture their cartridges in transparent casings so the user can see how much ink is left like my Epson Stylus Pro does.

[oldfellow]

I too have an HP All in One Printer (L7580) ,About a year old.

It gives me a low ink warning when it detects that ink is getting low, but it does say that it is an estimate and that actuall amount may be different.

It does not keep telling me each time I print, does at intervals , but not exessively .

I use HP cartridges , the largest available and they seem to give me very good results in both quantity and quality .

My first printer with an Epson, for which I used after market/3rd party cartidges for about 4 years , without any problems. Replaced it because it was slow and the rattling creaking noice it made me think it was time for a change.

My present HP got good test result when our local Consumer Institute did printer tests. Most happy with HP

[ivorycruncher]

Hi there Steve. I'd just to add my two cents' worth to your inquiry. On my previous Canon printer, and old S450 model (and this applies to the S520 as well), the driver software was setup so that when the printer determined that you were out of ink, not only would it not let you continue trying to print, but you could not dismiss the popup window until you actually replaced the cartridge. You'd click OK to dismiss the window and it would reappear instantly. This was very annoying when I didn't have a spare cartridge on hand, and one time I ended up running to Walmart to get a cartridge just to make it stop. However, that was several years ago.



With my current printer, a Canon Pixma iP3000, the software will alert me when the ink tanks are supposedly seriously low or empty, but it also tells me I can press the Resume button on the printer to continue printing, along with a warning that doing so could seriously damage the printer (not sure I buy that one). Also, the warning screen isn't nearly as intrusive and can be dismissed easily. Unfortunately, I have never checked to see how much ink still appears to be in the cartridge. I so seldom use my printer, the ink typically dries out in the cartridges before it actually runs out. That actually takes several months to happen, which is partly why I like Canons so much. They're known for long shelf life on their inks, and also fairly consistently low price per page in consumables. However, I can tell you that the few times I have actually hit the "empty" status and had to hit resume to continue printing, I never got any output that looked like the ink had run out, which is pretty typical.

[boblockler]

Good Morning.

I have been using CANON printer products for approx 10 years and am 100% satisfied with the product. Six years ago I began using their Multipass line - which is printer, scanner, copier (fax , also if desired), which uses individual tanks - not multi-colored inks in one unit. The MP600 unit I now use has the ink level sensor chips on each individual tank and alerts me which ink is low. I check the cartridge with it's visable ink reservoir and can see that it is EMPTY!

My experience with printers is similar to other merchandise - you pay for what you get, and you get what you pay for (in most cases). I also have always used after market supplies. At present I order on-line individual cartridges (with sensor chips attached) for $6 each - free shipping! No complaints!

[Blimfark]

Gosh, Jason, I'm so glad I don't have to live at your house with no printer. What do you do? Take stuff to work on CD or disk to print there and let your boss eat the cost? Any printer would work fine cost-wise as long as you don't print what you don't need. I just cannot imagine being that frugal.

[djollota]

I would have liked to have seen the section of your article that discussed cartridge yield cover the ISO yield standards that all major printer manufacturers are now using to report cartridge yield.

For the first time since the inkjet printer was introduced, most manufacturers are using the same methods to estimate yield so consumers can make apples to apples comparisons to help them make informed purchase decisions. It is no longer necessary for test labs or publications to conduct their own “mini-tests” to look at yield – they simply have to go to the manufacturer’s websites and see if their yields are reported using these internationally recognized standards.

In our opinion, it would be a far greater service to consumers if publications like PC World informed consumers of these standards instead of continuing to test and report yields using far less rigorous and predictable methods.

For more on cartridge yield, please check out our blog at
http://community.qua...ng/default.aspx

Dave Jollota
QualityLogic

[Toulinwoek]

I only partly agree. I think the information you mention should be included in articles like this, but should not replace them. Printer manufacturers make the bulk of their money from ink, I think just about everyone realizes that. When it comes down to money, I cannot think it farfetched that manufacturers might just say that their cartridge yields are thus and so according to some ISO standard, but how would we know that they actually are? Are they saying that ISO certified those yields or that they are just reporting to us in ISO approved numbers? I can't, and no one should, trust that alone. If Canon, for example, says that their cartridge yield is an ISO-certified xx pages per cartridge, I'd like some validation of that from another source. Just because ISO says, "measure it this way" isn't going to stop manufacturers from inflating the numbers.

No, there is always a need for real-world testing like what these articles report. It's like car manufacturers reporting vehicle mileage estimates in units approved by the EPA, but independent testing has, time and again, proven those estimates to be, let's just say, generous at best.

[djollota]

In addition to very detailed methodologies, one of the primary benefits we see in the ISO yield standards is the stringent reporting requirements. The standards for ink (ISO 24711), mono toner (ISO 19752) and color toner (ISO 19798) all clearly require that very detailed reports be made available upon request. These reports include the actual cartridge yield for all cartridges tested, any failures that were found, pc configurations used, etc. As an independent lab, I agree that getting "validation from another source" provides consumers additional confidence in the numbers (we make part of our living doing this kind of work). But I would encourage you to ask for the detailed reports from any OEM that reports their yields using these ISO standards and I think you will find that yield numbers using these standards are head and shoulders above any other method that is out there.

In the testing we have done for Kodak over the past couple of years, we have published several test reports that include much of the detailed reporting that I am referring to. As detailed as these reports are, even these are a subset of the more extensive ISO reports. Please feel free to check them out at www.qualitylogic.com/Contents/Library/Test-Reports/Kodak-MFP-CoIPP-Index.aspx

[Mikebanks]

Thanks for an excellent investigative report! Now, can you check printers that communicate with home base, as some Lexmarks appear to do? Some have complained about this elsewhere.

My HP printers have always continued to print until the pages display banding, and after if I let it happen.
--Mike
On the Way to the Web