[PCWorld]

Post your comments for DigiYumi: Xbox Live Real Life Security Issues here

[zerothemoon]

This is the most ridiculous article I have read in a long time. I hope no one actually pays this guy...

You seriously published a conversation about some guy who accidentally got charged by xbox, and who actually in fact thinks xbox 360 and the live experience is pretty good? AND THEN titled it security issues?

"OMG OMG My games didn't work very well via dial up!!" Well, duh?

"OMG OMG someone made a billing error on my account 4 years ago!!" I'm sorry, this kind of stuff happens to everyone, in every company ever. Sometimes companies make errors. You really think this is worth reporting on? Maybe if 1,000 people experienced this but one guy? Come on.

Maybe I miss understood something in the article, but this is just stupid. Honestly I feel more at risk signing up for this stupid PC World account just so I can comment, than I do about my xbox live account. I can't believe I wasted my time reading this, learn to report on real news please. Thanks.

[techie4fun]

I thought article was better written than most.



I feel sorry for the guy.

[zerothemoon]

Well you are the only one my friend, because 17 people have given this article a thumbs down... and no one has given it a thumbs up.

[AuroraDizon]

This article was a continuation from an earlier article linked onto the beginning of the blog post about how Xbox makes it difficult for people to cancel. Not offering the ability to cancel online, the inability to remove credit card information from there system. When my friend read the article he mentioned how he got overcharged for 3 years, none by his own fault. So we decided to share his story. Its about as simple as that. Also keep in mind in the future this is the Community Voices section which is a PC World blog written by community members. This was also not the only case of Xbox Live's inability to cancel your account online, and bad business practices that have lead people to be overcharged for their service.

[MrBigShoes]

http://www.pcworld.c...157958/digiyumixboxlivereallifesecurityissues.html

[zerothemoon]

Yeah I went back and read that previous article too. Now I am investing WAY more time into ridiculous articles than I wanted to. I have changed my credit card information, and removed old cards from my Xbox Live account with no problems what-so-ever. I have never had a problem with disks, with account information, or red rings of death. I don't think a company should have to build a bomb proof system for 10 year old kids (and pc world publishers) who don't know how to use the technology given to them. If you take common sense and apply it to your gaming experience (i.e. don't drop your xbox while a disk is spinning in it) you will be fine.

Also, why is xbox outselling PS3 2 to 1? First off, it isn't 400 bucks. If xbox 360 charged their customers $400 for a system I would think they could make it bomb proof too. If you do in fact want something that is BOMB PROOF, then go buy a playstation for a couple hundred dollars more and stop whining because you don't know how to take care of your system.

Second, their online gaming beats every other online gaming network available.

Third, xbox360 has a much larger selection of games.

But, back to the point. Every company has it's flaws, and when you are dealing with hundreds of thousands of users you are bound to make mistakes. You could have written the previous article you are refering to (http://www.pcworld.c...155862/digiyumixboxlivepersonalsecurity_issues.html) about any company this large in the world.

Please learn to write about something that actually matters.

[AuroraDizon]

Thanks for your input, however I haven't run into any company, outside of netzero which has been in a class action lawsuit about overcharging people after they canceled their account. Difficulties in doing so, and complications along the way then I have with Xbox Live. Don't get me wrong I love the Xbox, I think its the best current system on the market today. The articles themselves are just to let people know about the hazards of attatching your credit card to your Live account and encouraging people to instead use a prepaid credit card or an Xbox Live subscription card.

[zerothemoon]

I'm sorry, but I couldn't find ANY information about a class action lawsuit reguarding xbox overcharging people after they cancelled their account. Could you post some links?

I did find some old class action lawsuits (I couldn't find anything more recent than a couple years ago) reguarding the scratched disks, but it sounds like Microsoft has been replacing games that get scratched even after the warrenty is up.

Also, check this website and see just how many companies deal with this kind of thing. Do you really expect me to believe that netzero and, apparently, microsoft are the only companies that have delt with this sort of thing?

[AuroraDizon]

I said netzero was the one in a class action lawsuit not Microsoft. They have been quiet good about replacing systems who have rrod and the scratched discs etc.

[zerothemoon]

Ok, so I guess I don't understand the point you were trying to make by mentioning the class action lawsuits then? It sounded like you were implying Microsoft was in one...
By the way I think "hazards" is a slightly more prudent word than "security" when you are talking about this issue. I still think saying its hazardous is ridiculous though... Thousands of people have no problems what so ever. It is hazardous to start smoking cigarettes, not sign up for xbox live.

[coastie65]

Good interview. It shows how the the best of intentions by a user can be exploited by the greed of a company. In my opinion, it is probably the best advertisement for Sony's FREE online service. Get a Playstation and be done with Microsoft greed and RROD's in the process. coastie65

[magriffith]

I more or less agree with Zero, though disagree with the way he expressed himself. It is very common that when you pay for a subscription via credit card it will automatically be renewed at the end of the cycle unless you specifically request to cancel it. That has nothing to do with Microsoft attempting to rip off its customers. It's a pretty standard practice.

While not blindly defending Microsoft (I prefer the PS3 and do feel Microsoft has done some shady things in regards to the 360 in the past), I think calling this experience a "predatory business model" and a "security issue" to be needlessly inflamatory to the point of nearly being defamatory.

[coastie65]

magriffith wrote:
It is very common that when you pay for a subscription via credit card it will automatically be renewed at the end of the cycle unless you specifically request to cancel it. That has nothing to do with Microsoft attempting to rip off its customers. It's a pretty standard practice..


Most "REPUTABLE" companies will, at the end of the cycle, give you the opportunity to either renew or cancel. Rhapsody is one of them. I pay them on a quarterly basis and at the end of the cycle, I am notified that it is about to expire and given a chance to renew. The same was true when I was running Norton. Failure to notify at the end of a cycle IS PREDATORY . I agree that you should read the fine print and if they do not offer a renewal / cancellation choice at the end of the period, then you SHOULD NOT deal with these companies, and that includes Micro$oft. When you look at Bill Gates' lakeside bungalow and Steve Ballmer's Yachts, then you will know what Micro$oft is truely about. Is it a Security issue ? I don't know, but I do know that having someone arbitrarily charging my Credit / Debit card, doesn't give me much of a feeling of security. In this case Micro$oft set the practice, and for someone to speak out is neither inflammatory nor defamatory, but an individual's opinion of the practice. Unfortunately, we are beset by Corporate greed in which predatory practices are the norm, in order to sate that thirst for money and by which the consumer is constantly victimized. Sony, at least gives you a FREE site in which to enjoy and expand your gaming experience. In my opinion, you can pay at little more at the outset and have an enjoable time, or you can pay a little less and live with the constant agravation ( RROD) and having Micro$soft sucking you dry of money. coastie65

[magriffith]

I agree that Microsoft has done many, many things which are morally questionable at best as a result of greed. Releasing a system which was known to have inherent crippling design flaws for the sole purpose of getting into homes before the competitors could get their products out is inexcusable and probably, given the inordinately high failure rate of early systems, should be punished legally. I am 100% satisfied with my free PSN account and don't think MS should charge for their service. What I was trying to express, though, is that like it or not, automatic renewals are more and more becoming normal practices. I think the way it was presented was at least an exaggerated view of the situation. When I see a headline about an Xbox Security Issue, I expect to be reading an article along the lines of discovering that hackers have access to steal your information, not an article of a misunderstanding of the service an individual purchased. The simplest solution for Xbox users who don't want to worry about an automatic renewal is, of course, to go buy a prepaid card for whatever time period you want to have access for.

[coastie65]

I agree, if you must play with Micro$oft, than the prepaid card is the way to go. It will keep Micro$oft from having access to dip into the till and help themselves. I don't know about Micro$oft's online stuff or even PSN, but I do know that WoW accounts have been hacked fairly regularly from all accounts. As I said, it may not fit the description of Security, I don't necessarily feel secure having someone dipping into my bank account on a regular basis, although I do have Rhasody and earthlink doing just that with no problems so far. Rhasody will notify me when the cycle is up and give me the option to continue or cancel, although I pay that on a quarterly basis rather than monthly. I maintain an additonal mailbox at earthlink after I cancel the internet service at $3.95 per month and can cancel at any time with no problem. I kept it due to online shopping accounts that I didn't want to change at the time. The bottom line is, I nver set up an online account for a one time purchase, and if it is an ongoing service, I make sure that I can cancel after the intial cycle, or in the case of a trial, I'll cancel before the trial period is over, if I'm not happy with it or it is not something I'll be using all that much. coastie

[AuroraDizon]

The security issue title was a retitling of the last article I did about the credit card information. The problem my friend Devon had is that the specially told him that it would be suspended if they didn't receive payment, which says to me that they are not going to charge you again unless you want it to. I can understand one to 3 months payment recharged if you don't specifically cancel, but a year when it was 50 dollars is a little unreasonable. His sister who was the card holder after they recharged the first time did specify that she did not want her card billed any long and they should of stopped billing after the first time. For example World of Warcraft I play on usually a monthly subscription, which has the ability to cancel your account online without losing your play time you already paid for (unlike netflix which apparently will charge you the full amount but stop sending you stuff if you cancel your account.) I have never had a problem with World of Warcraft you can easily cancel online and that's that. Microsoft doesn't even have an option to cancel online for "security" reasons which they stated again the original outcome of the title itself. The roundabout way they do things to ensure they get another payment even if you don't want it.


So I do apologize for the somewhat misleading title, again it was based off the first one which I called ms and they cited security issues of why you can't cancel online. It was very early in the morning I had spend days illustrating the cartoon to get it posted in time.

[coastie65]

Hi Aurora, There is another option and that is to immediately get in touch with the credit card company and stop the payment or deny payment. coastie

[AuroraDizon]

Yes, unfortunely the first time that they overcharged my friend it was apparently months after it was recharged. Not sure why but he said that it was about 3 months later until he was aware that they even did that. Good input though, I also suggested prepaid credit cards, sometimes they are easier to find then specific Xbox live cards.