[nx1701]

You know, since some of us are bashing Apple and some of us are defending them, I just HAD to chime in with this - I just LOVE how they refer to a tech support guy at their stores as a "Genius"!!

I recently purchased a refurbished 160GB iPod that arrived, after waiting EIGHT days for it, with a defective click-wheel. I took it to a nearby Apple retail store where the "Genius" promptly exchanged it for ANOTHER defective 160GB iPod (bad hard-drive, this time)! When I took it back there the next day, I wanted SO bad to walk in there and say "O.K., who's the genius who gave me this defective piece of crap?"!! :-)

[blakedes]

Yah, just about one of the most pretentious shopping experiences ever. I love how you have to make an appointment for the privilege of buying Apple stuff. Next step, you'll have to meet Apple's soon to be announced "Qualifications to Own Apple Stuff."

[jahrends]

Again... this is not about people having decenting opinions. This is about people reporting things with a distorted and dirty lens.

This article is from a point of vue that apple should be ashamed of releasing 2.2.1 with no NEW features. That is the first problem.



The next big problem is that when anyone that is happy with their mac/iphone and defend the products from Trolls they get called fan boys. Like we should feel guilty about buying a product that for the most part "just plane works" Which they do. There is no device out there that is going to be 100$ YMMV.

The honest truth here is that I have used most every OS out there. I currently bought use my own MBP because I have almost zero agrivation from OS X in comparison to Windows. That is my honest feelings. If because from experience I have built up a preference to a much smoother user experience does that make me a fanboi? Am I wrong for being in a position that if you offered me a Free PC or I will have to buy my own mac I will buy my own MAC? "If I am wrong I dont want to be right!"



Honestly today my 3g iPhone went for a swim. My honest reaction to this is that I would NOT willingly use a different phone. I would not choose any currently available phone above the iphone. Now you may be thinking that I am just biased. You would be wrong. If/when someone comes out with a phone that can replace my iphone in functionality I would check it out. I might even check out the Pre when it comes out. I have Windows 7 in a VM and I think it is a step in the right direction for Microsoft. The interesting thing is that even though it is a step in the right direction it is still not enough to get me to replace OS X. Things change. I was all over 95 when it came out because it was a HUGE improvement over 3.1.



The bottom line is I don't care what you use. If you don't like/want an iphone then don't get one. Just quit calling people who honestly like their iphones fanboi... That just leads to me throwing gas on the fire! :)



Again if windows works for you use it! It does not work for me for many reasons.

[dvconner]

Actually it's just like Micro$oft. And this update is just the same as a service pack, just Apple choose not to use that term. As for "push notifications" the part of the iPhone 3G that just happens to be Micro$oft "Exchange Email" connector has push using active sync and it works on the iPhone even better then Windows Mobile devices. I love this phone, except for the keyboard, they really need to get the landcape keyboard going in email.

[jahrends]

Your reply was awesome! I don't agree with some of it but it is awesome.

My smart phone experience is a long timeline up to the first iphone. for example I show up to a customer (college campus in a texas town far from DFW) I go to call my customer my Treo locks up HARD. Pull the battery... every time I try to make a call LOCKS up. I go to the verizon store... guess what.. "oh that is a Smart phone we don't do anything with those your going to have to call the 800 number." I went through so many issues like that of unreliable phones. Now I will admit that the Palm OS was better than windows in my opinion.

My wife did NOT want an iphone. The day that it was released I was traveling. She went and stood in line for me to get one. From listening to me and the people in line she got one. Long story short is that she would NOT use any other phone but the iphone now. In fact she gets more use out of hers than I do. I have not used any phone that compares to this phone. I know that when I need to make a call that it will be there for me. It is more than just a phone... I could go on and on. Now if someone comes up with a better phone I will look at it. I use what works.

As far as windows goes I don't see it that way. I work in a corporate environent. Since VMware was still a beta I used LINUX on my laptop and windows in a VM for anything I could not do in Linux. I had a G4 mac (which is now 6 years and still going strong) for 4 years before it hit me. I had gotten it to do video editing since it comes with pretty cool tools by default. I did not view the Mac OS X as I do now. It finally dawned on me that my mac was capable of doing EVERYTHING I was trying to get linux and windows combined to do.



Personally at this point I still don't think that windows holds a candle to the capabilities of Mac OS X. You have the UNIX stability with a nice GUI and it just plane works. I used to build my own PC's... After owning a mac I have lost all interest in fidling with pc parts, fighting with drivers, the BSOD and the never ending saga of why is my machine suddenly crawling? Sure there is an occasional app that will stop responding but it does not impact the other apps running like it does in windows. I can just force quit that app... or if I wanted I could pull up a BASH shell (DOS prompt is no subistitute for a UNIX shell) and do a quick ps and a kill and restart that app.



This is all of course my opinions! I fully understand that for some they are opinions that are not agreed with. Heck when I heard that apple claimed to be the largest UNIX distributor I laughed... I know get it and agree! My biggest complaint is that from my perspective the whole world knows how flaky windows is... how it has taught the world that a computer is prone to crash. How many times have you called into a company and the person on the other end says "HOld on a second my computer is acting up!" I honestly don't get that with my computer. This is the reason why that 50% of the people that are buying macs are doing so for the first time! If you don't like apple products don't buy them. I have never called anyone a windows faboi. I am not married to Mac OS X. Right now I view it as the best.. but I did download the Windows 7 Beta before Microsoft pulled it because they could not handle the load (perk of having FiOS) So I am not closed minded. I am a gadget person.

[dvconner]

I've been in IT since Bill and Steve were working out of a garage. Both of the two men had great visions and both took us far. So ever since OS/2 I have kept an open mind. We have lots to thank both companies for, and bashing one or the other is not productive. I think all the OS/2 fanatics went down with the ship. I've never been an Apple person as far as the desktop goes, That is not to say I don't admire the devices. When the day comes that I can go buy OSX in a box and install it on my PC, I may reconsider. I expect Apple and Linux to converge, and that may be the only thing that knocks Windows off the desktop. My company has used VMWare and has made the switch the Hyper-V, it is a better product from a performance standpoint and the best part, it runs Linux and BSD, so even Microsoft is starting to bend. With today's economy, I expect to see more companies test the Linux waters just to save the licensing costs. So, forsure, Linux is here to stay and OSX is not that different. It's going to boil down to cost and the ability to add either of these platforms to an active directory environment and play nice. Samba is good, but not seemless.

As for the iPhone, hands down, the best I've ever owned. I've used every mobile OS Microsoft has, both with and without "phone" and none hold a candle to it. I've had every Palm, and none could hold a candle to Windows Mobile. I'm not even going to mention RIM's Crackberries. What a joke since most of our clients use Exchange, it was a very smart move to add that functionality to the iPhone 3G and that alone is what knocked RIM off the top of the rock. Why pay for licensing of a BES server when Exchange can do all the things BES does for basically free on a phone that can talk to activesync? Makes no sense to me.

All my opinion and general consincus from our clients.

[ColinC]

I't is fine for peopple to prefer Macs. But they then tend to get into a hysteria of "anti-everything else and isn't Jobs a god". It is simply not true that the Mac never crashes and doesn't have security holes through which viruses can attack.

And to say the the Apple implementation of Exchange push email is better on the iphone than MS have doen elsewhere is completely untrue. In fact the implementation on the iphone is barely adequate.

1. It only syncs one mail folder at a time (I can choose multiple folders on Windows Mobile).
2. It won't sync deletions done offline (Windows Mobile will).
3. You can't tell it to automatically download attachments (Windows Mobile will).
4. It often stops receiving push email and needs a poke to get going again (Windows Mobile doesn't).
So those are it's deficencies - so how did Apple do better?

[TechieXP]

Wow! I was with you all the way until you mentioned Exchange. There is no way any device not backed by Microsoft will ever work with Exchange better then Windows Mobile/Outlook. Just like no device can sync with Domino better then Lotus Notes. And you as an IT Guy should know that. I've very sure since syncing with Exchange requires licensing from Microsoft, I wouldn't be surprised if MS even made the software for Apple. Even Office on the Mac isn't better than teh PC version. Only Entourage has some extended capabilities that exceed what is offered through Outlook. But is simply because Office for the Mac isn't just a port of teh PC version. It was designed from teh bottom up to take advantage of the benefits of Mac OS. And of course Office was born on the Mac anyways. I do agree Blackberries which do well with their own sever, doesn't hold a candle to Exchange. Exchange set standard for what a Mail server should be. Even if some idea may have been from Domino which we use in our office, I wouldn't even put that above it.

There has not been a software that syncs better with Exchange...ever. However the iPhone does work ok with Exchange, but it isn't as secure as a direct link that Outlook provides. Its also easier to setup on a Windows Mobile device. And unlike what one person that said Windows sucks just as bad on a device as it does on a desktop, must have never really used a Windows Mobile phone. It is the only phone that you can simply plug into your computer that requires NO additional software for it to work. Yes there is ActiveSync for XP and yes Vista has its own version of it. But you don't need them t all. I have teh Instinct and it doesn't sync at all with email. Th ebest you get is a desktop applications that pushed my Lotus Notes mail to my phone. And yes when I delete it from my phone it also does so on the server. But it isn't plug and play...and in order for me to use it on any PC i need to install the software vereywhere. I don't need that as long as said PC has at least Outlook. Which at any office or library computer is practically a given. Our office is small...6 with an iPhone, 3 with a Palm phone 11 with a Windows Mobile phone, one has a Blacberry. I still have my Windows Mobile phone but seldom use since I got my Instinct...it so happen we don't use Exchance...we use Domino. Lotus' new app...iNotes works very well with it, but just like Iphones' Exchange software, you can't sync to other folders...only the Inbox, and the Calendar and Contacts. Thats a sad limitation. With Outlook and Exchange I have access to everything in Outlook. All folders, emails, attachments, calender...and so much more. Of course this is something you should already know. So how is it and application on iPhone that offers far less, be better then an application that does way more? Isn't that biased. That like saying a Honda is better than a Ferrari simply because it gets better gas milage. So you pull up to a club with your Honda and let me use a Ferrari and see which one goes home alone.

I think when MS develped Windows Mobile, they wasn;t looking to be competive...because no one had office like capabilities on a phine accept Palm. I think they simple wanted the business man to be able to work away from his desk in places where pc access was available. Most ppl who I see with PDA devices simply buy them because its like a toy or because its popular. iPhone is teh only that offered things outside teh scope of business. Making it a very expensive toy, just happens to do some serious things. Apple products are all about having fun...which is why Macs don't exist much on an Enterprise level. You need a computer that does more then manipulate music and photos. That is what Mac has always been great at. Its a different type of business. Its not saying these ppl have less need for a PDA...but I would say that is you did a survey to ask how many iPhone users actually use teh phone for business related things vs Windows Mobile and BlackBerry...iPhone would be dead last.

[jahrends]

Any mac user that says that their MAC NEVER crashes is not being truthful. My MBP early on got a few Grey Screens of Death. An honest Mac user will tell you that it happens VERY rarely. What does happen which can't be blamed squarely on the OS is that an app might stop responding. This is where a Mac outshines windows. Too often when an app starts acting up in windows it causes the whole machine to stop responding. You end up fighting with it to get to where you can kill off that app. With the mac you most likely will not notice that that app has locked up until you go to use it then you get your spinning beach ball. In cases such as these you just force quit the app and start it again. This is basically where Windows fails the user. It is far to easy for a single app to take down your whole system.

Another thing that I think is interesting in this whole argument is this myth that people spout about how expensive Apple is... Answer these questions.

What does any other UNIX system cost?

What does Mac OS X cost?

What does windows cost?

Does Microsoft have a family 5 pack license?

What does Office cost (Completely insane pricing)

What does iWork Cost?

Does Office have a family 5 pack?



You should get the picture by now that Microsoft in the long run costs more.



Still if you prefer windows fine. Just stop calling people fanboi when they point out facts.

One more point I really admire Bill Gates. I think he is a pretty good guy. I just don't like his OS. On the other hand I think Steve Balmer is a moron.

I also do not think that Steve Jobs is perfect. I know that he is difficult to work with. He does get the job done.

What I think of the CEO's of these companies has nothing to do with the bottom line on which OS I run. I own a copy of Vista. I grabbed 7 and am playing with it. I give windows a chance... I just feel constrained by windows.

[dvconner]

Don't know what to tell you. It does, and is, working with exchange and does everything better. HTML emails are readable, it actually marks them read when you view them on the phone, The OMA push works flawlessly. The only thing that is not included is tasks and notes, and there is a 3rd party app for that. You can open word, excel, PDF, and powerpoint documents, no editing, but I don't do that on the phone anyway. Microsoft and Apple got together on this and Apple built the interface using Microsoft's API. No additional licensing needed. We've switched about 30 clients and not one has anything negative to say about the iPhone, we get nothing but praise for hooking them up. That's the kind of product we like!

As for BES (Blackberry Exchange Server) it's nothing more than a license restricted Exchange frontend server. It does nothing Exchange Active-Sync doesn't already do for free.

You obviously don't understand how Outlook Mobile Access works. It's just as secure on the iPhone as it is on the Windows Mobile devices if you are using certificates. Understand, Outlook on any mobile device is not the same as outlook on the desktop. OMA it is web based, and it's simply a list of items that the phone sees and syncs with almost in an FTP format. Put it to the test, goto [https://yourserverurl/OMA] login and answer OK to the unknown device question if this doesn't work, drop the https and make it http. If that works, your admin has SSL turned off, and it's not secure on any OMA device.

As for your survey, all of us and an ever growing list of our clients use the iPhone every day for business. I haven't loaded a single song on mine. The web browser is so good, I can access our helpdesk system and create tickets and edit them. Works great. Apple may be dead last right now, but that is changing, the whole concept of the iPhone is envied across the PDA world, just look at the crap the competitors are putting out with "touch screens" and none have quite gotten the feel on par with the iPhone.

[dvconner]

I'm with you. Being in the IT business, I really dislike anything that causes me to have to work. But mostly I dislike end users. I think you'll find that these errors, PEBKAC and ID10T happen on both Windows and Macs. And no matter what Apple or Microsoft comes out with nothing can get rid of it. If you don't know what these errors are, you must be an end user. :D

In reality we have Xerox and IBM to thank for all this. Since that is where the production GUI with a mouse and PC actually came from. Everything after that has just been "Bill and Steve's Excellent Adventure"

[mbrook73]

I'd hoped the minor issue I have would have been fixed by now.

Used to be that when you double tapped the shift key the caps locked... mine no longer does?

Any ideas?

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