[PCWorld]

Post your comments for Microsoft Layoff Sparks H-1B Debate here

[dennisl59]

Food for thought:

#7) We demand that the State be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens. If it is impossible to sustain the total population of the State, then the members of foreign nations(non-citizens)are to be expelled from the R.

From the Political Party Platform from a country in Europe in the mid 20th century. Look it up.

Thank You.

[WayneW]

Just read about micro$ trying to blackmail intel for helping fund/develop
Linux distos.
Read More Here:http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/30/microsoft-intel-anti-linux/
Microsoft on Intel's Anti-Linux: "Please Keep Confidential. This is a Nightmare"
Would like to think our Gov. will step up on this, but I doubt it.
This is my last straw with this crooked Co.
I'll NOT go with win7.
One of the reasons being the way they
incorporate DRM into vista and win7.
If you're a fanboy, let Bill dictate to YOU what YOU can watch and listen to. With vista, microsoft went as far as having graghic card makers deceiving their custermers.(read the article above)
Would like to hear more about this on this site.
Lastly, let micro$ hock their bloatware where the visa workers are from.
I for one am not going to let this ride.
Please read article above.

[mpheadley]

This is a tough call. It would be silly for a company to get rid of workers who are more knowledgeable or all around better than a US worker. However, it would also be silly to hire a foreign worker solely based on lower wages.

[mpheadley]

I would hope and I do think MS learned its lesson and has received its punishment by all the bad feedback and low sales with Vista.

[rasmasyean]

No...they should get rid of people who are not productive for their cost. Who cares about hiring "Americans". If they settle for lower rate engineers that will just let other companies overseas take over in the long run. If the spoiled Americans want to be competative, they have to stop watching TV and and work the hours the foreigners do. Too many Americans take their lifestyle for granted. Get off your bunds and get the country moving.

[skipperrrrjohn]

What this will show is what almost every IT manager and employee already knows.

Except for some very creative H1B workers, the vast majority of H1B workers displace equally effective American workers because the H1B workers work for lower wages.

I, like many other IT workers, watched fellow workers get displaced by H1B workers. The H1B workers did exactly the same job as the displaced American workers, but did so for lower wages. In many cases, the American workers were expected to train the H1B workers before the American workers were laid off. The companies justified the H1B worker taking over the job by giving the jobs new titles (but not changing the actual work required).

I feel little pity for H1B workers who must move back to their home countries (as they felt little pity about displacing an employed American worker).

[WayneW]

Don't stop now.

Take the time to THANK your congressman!

[numen]

Please do not lie about American workers. My friends are working 70 hour weeks and performing excellently. Their only problem is that H1Bs are working for 30-50% less due to massive loopholes in the laws.

[Captain5]

Where are you getting that H1B are making less money ?

I worked in the U.S. for IBM for 6 years under an H1B visa. I was making the same money as everybody else in my department. And I was very well paid. A lot more than I made before in my working life. And I didn't came from a 3rd world country, I came from Canada.

[realfacts]

Regarding statement by author: "Microsoft won't disclose the number of H-1B workers on its payroll, and it's hard to get a complete picture of any company's visa use from the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services."
I suggest the author check out the Code of Federal Regulations, LCA stands for Labor Condition Application (LCA)

20 CFR 655.760(a). The employer must maintain a separate public access folder for each LCA filed, containing the following:

1. A copy of the certified labor condition application (Form ETA 9035 or Form ETA 9035E) and cover pages (Form ETA 9035CP). http://The employer ...ned by the DOL. If the Form ETA 9035 is submitted by facsimile transmission, the application containing the original signature shall be maintained by the employer in its files. If the Form ETA 9035E is submitted electronically, a printout of the certified application shall be signed by the employer and maintained in its files.
2. Documentation which provides the wage rate to be paid to the H-1B nonimmigrant;
3. A full, clear explanation of the system that the employer used to set the “actual wage” the employer has paid or will pay workers in the occupation for which the H1B nonimmigrant is sought, including any periodic increases which the system may provide—e.g., memorandum summarizing the system [of how the actual wage was computed] or a copy of the employer’s pay system or scale (payroll records are not required, although they shall be made available to the Department in an enforcement action).
4. A copy of the documentation the employer used to establish the “prevailing wage” for the occupation for which the H-1B nonimmigrant is sought (a general description of the source and methodology is all that is required to be made available for public examination; the underlying individual wage data relied upon to determine the prevailing wage is not a public record, although it shall be made available to the Department in an enforcement action); and
5. A copy of the document(s) with which the employer has satisfied the union/employee notification requirements of §655.734 of this part.
6. A summary of the benefits offered to U.S. workers in the same occupational classifications as H-1B nonimmigrants, a statement as to how any differentiation in benefits is made where not all employees are offered or receive the same benefits (such summary need not include proprietary information such as the costs of the benefits to the employer, or the details of stock options or incentive distributions), and/or, where applicable, a statement that some/all H-1 nonimmigrants are receiving “home country” benefits

you get the idea, remind Microsoft of the regulations ... they will get you the info.

[numen]

I know they make less money by talking to them. I was sitting in the same room with 90 of them, and we all talk.

Good for you if you were making hte same money. Being from Canada instead of a depressed area helps. Working direct for a large company rather than being a contractor helps.



These days most H1Bs are on contract, working for an India-owned bodyshop, sometimes through a chain of up to five contract agencies, each taking a huge cut and leaving the guestworker with very little. And each time through it makes it harder for the government to check the accuracy of the wage paid...as if the government would ever check unless comeone forced them to.

There are a large variety of ways to game the system and pay the guestworker less. 1) They can use most any system they want to determine "prevailing wage", 2) They can use the prevailing wage for a lower-wage job and then put the guestworker to work at a different, more valuable task, 3) they can replace a "fully competent" American worker with an "entry level" guestworker at a much lower wage level.

Some guestworkers are here because their employer used the system as it was supposed to be used. Every year that group becomes smaller and those getting screwed becomes larger.

[numen]

Yes, it would be silly for a company to dump excellent workers and replace them with inferior, lower-paid workers, but I have seen it happen many times. Companies have done many silly, in fact suicidal things.

Companies no longer pay its managers to manage well, or to manage for the long term. Managers get paid for making the numbers look good for this quarterly period, and damn the future, since the managers expect to job-hop anyway to escape the consequences of their failures.

[clifford]

Laying off is difficult for every one and more so for h1 but since life is tough and you are brutal, I will agree with you, h1 holders have to bear this. Hey but by the same token as yours I also feel little pity for an uncompetitive,undereducated, under skilled, overpaid person who asks questions all the time and takes eons to understand. Such people also think job is their entitlement. No body wants to work for low wages, however H1 system was designed so that employers could profit and no denying that like all businesses h1 employers abuse their resources as well. Govt. also makes money, takes all types of taxes (like social sec taxes and Medicare taxes) from these visa holder tax payers knowing very well that they can never take benefit from what they have paid. There are tons of jobs for which are only open for us citizens , green card holders etc.

It is difficult to find good jobs on H1 that is why every H1 holder think let the EAD come and then I will be somewhat at the par with the regular guys, barring the color of skin of course. Even without a playing level field and all these constraints there are many H1 people who are making >90-100 kpa . Are you thinking of replace the Joe the plumber with a guy who has 10 years of industry experience.