[squishie]

I am thinking about a 64 bit OS for my next computer. (HP S3620f with vista, Intel dual processer E5200 and 4G memory). Being someone who doesn't know a whole lot about this stuff and getting a headache reading page after page of data, I would like to get your opinion. Should I, or stick to 32 bit?

Thanks in advance........ Jeff:|

[crazy4laptops]

right now, personal computing as a whole is still in the 32-bit realm
32 bit is the most compatible and stable
64 bit is still emerging and has issues sometimes with software and drivers, but it can use 4gb of ram or more and it is good for when you need boatloads of memory/ram and cpu power for your CAD, 3d modelling, intense gaming, etc.

what do you plan to do with this computer?

[squishie]

Just normal stuff I guess, and a little gaming. Some games work, others don't. Some just crawl. I have never used Vista (Haven't even seen what the screen looks like.) I have read several papers that if you use vista, 64 bit vista is the way to go. Something about being faster and more stable They also seem to think that most computers will move over to 64 bit within about 10 years. That right now the 64 bit OS has two program files to keep the programs separate (64 and 32 bit) from each other and will run both with the 32 bit running slower. This info came from a MS forum. and a few other places. They basically seem to agree. But you are right, there are software problems (what system doesn't). This is probably the last system I will ever buy (Who knows, not getting any younger). So was wondering if I should meet them half way and just get it. Thanks for your input. Jeff:)

[crazy4laptops]

i had forgotten to mention the two sets of program filesin x64 installations

with as much power as that HP system has, the slowness comparison can be measured in miliseconds, so i think you're fine...

defrag the drive, invest in a quality security suite, and your computer will run for a long time

hp installs norton on all their shipped computers, and if you prefer a different program see below for removal of norton

norton removal tool

[squishie]

Thank you very much for you input. I think I will give it a try. I already pull my hair out on this system, might as well pull my hair out on the next. That's what makes computers fun and interesting. If things ran too smoothly, I think I would get bored. Thanks again, Oh, and thank you for the norton removal tool. Jeff;

[infinitiguy]

one of the main reasons I chose to go 64 bit was for vmware. I work in IT and I wanted to be able to have a few different test environments that I could all run at the same time and have them be responsive, without killing my host OS. It's worked great for me.

[snorg]

HI squishie
Rite now the main advantage of 64bit is you can use lots more memory than 32bit.
If you buy a new HP with Vista64 installed you should be fine.
The trouble comes when you want to put in a better video card or sound card etc, 64bit drivers can be hard to find and may be inadequate.

[Atomic77]

64 Bit Vista is awesome if you get 64bit now you be future proof. I have had no issues with it or with any of my stuff so far.

[rgreen4]

From the number this is a pre-built system, not a Custom To Order. Is this a machine that you are ordering or one you already own?

[squishie]

Atomic77 and all the rest of you guy's.
I had this system since last Wednesday,(HP a6642p). I am very happy so far with the system. It's my first time with vista and I don't see anything wrong with it. I find so far that it works about the same way as XP except they moved stuff around a bit. Wasn't too hard to figure out. I am learning a little more each day as I go along. (Cripes, I hadn't even figured XP out fully). This system has what I never seen before. HP or msn, burned they entire OS and all the software from the factory on a special section of the hard drive that they call a "Recovery Image". So if something goes wrong with the OS, It will wipe the drive, reformat, and reinstall the whole works. Of course everything else that was installed out of the box is bye,bye. So of course, back up your stuff. They also let you make for one time only a set of back-up disks of your system and software from your recovery image in case your hard drive bit's the big one. But claims it will only work on your computer. (Must be a way to bypass that). I guess that's their way of protecting their software so people don't run around giving everyone and their brother an OS for free or a buck or two. OK, I am rambling, Anyway, it's fast, fun and different. My joy and frustrations are just beginning. Thanks for all the advise and stuff

Jeff:)
Message was edited by: squishie

[rgreen4]

Squishie, you have just joined the group that starts Vista with trepidation, but finds it really a good OS. There are a couple of serious improvements over XP, one is the Snipping Tool found in the Accessories folder (Start -> All Programs -> Snipping Tool) which will allow you to cut a section of an image on the screen and save it as a graphics file. Another is the fact that the Disk Manager (Start -> Control Panel -> System and Maintenance, then under Administrative tools at the bottom click on "Create and Format Hard Disk Partitions") will repartition the operating disc on the fly (which XP could not do).

Enjoy and if you have problems or questions, remember the community is open 24/7.

[squishie]

rgreen4

Thanks for the advise. Never heard of a snipping tool. Sounds like fun, going to have to play with it. Just figured out how to put image on !http://forums.pcworld.com/legacyimages/
1! comment site. As you can see I am having a little problem moving the picture where I want it. I can resize it, but can't move it. Oh well, I'll figure it out. Have a great night.





HEY!! WHERE MY PICTURE GO? Instead of a picture, it printed the web site address. ??????
Message was edited by: AuroraDizon - fixed image make sure the ! ! coding around the url is followed and preceded by spaces.

[squishie]

Cripes....What is this? I knew I had two different "program files" one for 64 and the other for 32, But two IE browsers? I guess I downloaded a 64 bit program in the 32 bit browser (saved) and when I tried to install it, It basically said to me "What the hell is this? We don't like your type, go away, we refuse to install you". Hmmmm. So I took a peak at " All programs" menu. And there it was, Two browsers. Internet Explorer and right below that, Internet Explorer (64-bit). So I downloaded again using the 64 bit browser and the computer was happy and installed it. So I guess this is telling me that I actually have two complete OS's on this computer. I confirmed this because I had to set-up each browser individually. Neither one would share information with the other. I was playing around in 64 browser where at one point it said I needed to install Adobe flash player. Ok, so I clicked install. Adobe came back and said you will have to wait until next version (I think they said version 10) as they don't have a 64 bit flash at this time. But on my other browser, it's already installed. So what I am trying to say is that your might as well get a 64-bit vista system, Because you are actually getting two computers in one box. Pretty cool eh?

[rgreen4]

I was aware that there were two Internet Explorer 7 browsers, one for 32 bit XP and Vista, and one for 64 bit. I don't know if the latter can be installed in XP 64 bit or not. I am not sure both are supposed to be installed.

Incidentally, when downloading a program, it is always best to save the download file either to the desktop or to a folder and then install by double clicking on the install file. This would solve the problem you ran into. I have a Download folder, and then sub-folders off of that for each application or driver that I have downloaded. If they do updates (in the case of drivers and utilities) I have folders under the program/driver/utility folder for each version (they sometimes use the same installer name). Thus when I discovered problems with Flash 10 on uploading images on this community, I was able to uninstall it and go back to 9.24.

[rtfire1]

as an old xp 64 and now a vista 32/64 user (i have both oss installed on my laptop). you should have both versions in stalled of Internet Explorer windows the one time i found a site that 64 would not work with brought the site up in 32 with a new window. over all I have found vista 64 ult the best bang for the buck.

[WinTard]

Hello squishie, 64-bit OS (supposedly) can do everything 32-bit OS do but not the opposite. Although it is possible to install two IE7 one 32-bit, the other 64-bit what is the point?

My take on this is if you have a 32-bit OS, then running 64-bit app software becomes um, irrational.
If you have a 64-bit OS, then running 32-bit app software, is possible, but why if you have the corresponding 64-bit version of the app also available?

The best is to run 32-bit OS with 32-bit app binaries, and 64-bit OS with 64-bit app binaries.

From a software development point of view, the exercise to convert a 32-bit app to 64-bit app is trivial. Just recompile the entire source-code with a 64-bit compiler, and link with 64-bit native libraries. And voila. It's that simple to port to 64-bit. A simple five minute recompile/link procedure.

Now in order to utilize the last bits of performance offered by the 64-bit CPU processors and 64-bit OS, that is another topic altogether. As you have many more API calls available, that the existing 32-bit source code will not exploit at all. But first things first, to port an existing 32-bit app to 64-bit app, simply recompile... The point of this is there are no excuses for not having drivers or updated 64-bit native software, other than the laziness and lameness of the software ISV in question.

As for today's state of affairs, I find absolutely no difficulties in obtaining any and all 64-bit drivers or otherwise from reputable manufacturers, like nVidia, ATi, Intel, Broadcom, Via, you name it. So going to full native 64-bit isn't the same situation as we had let's say one year ago to this date.

The implication for the end user, is they should insist on 64-bit EVERYTHING from the start. Usually if you download IE or any piece of software, it will detect which type of bus width you have, 32-or-64-bit, and will install from one package whatever is required, defaulting to 64-bit for 64-bit OSes. So normal users do not have to contend with the intricacies of what doesn't concern them.

And it is actually counterproductive to install both a 32-bit and 64-bit versions of the same product into any singular environment, leading to situations just the like of what you experienced.

Please remember:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The man with two watches is never sure of what time it is...

PS: thanks to rgreen4 for bringing your problem to light! ;)

[rtfire1]

there are web sites out there that will not work with a 64 bit and thats why you would ned the 32 bit version its only happened to me once but it could happen again

[WinTard]

rtfire1 said:

there are web sites out there that will not work with a 64 bit and thats why you would ned the 32 bit version its only happened to me once but it could happen again

Although anything is possible, the issue about web sites out there that will not work with 64 bit is obviously an HTML compatibility issue. A web browser is but a mere 'viewer' version of notepad but for HTML (Hyper Text Markup Language) derived from (SGML). For more, please google either acronym.

A reputable company such as Adobe has all appropriate 'drivers' for Flash and ShockWave and whatever, but the individual websites out there don't have the proper corresponding 64-bit software redirectors/pointers updated into their HTML pages, hence leading to situations where you cannot operate under 64-bit locally... Because you've never yet loaded the 'required' plugin originally in the first place.

Let's give credit to where credit is due, the fault resides on the lazy web designers/coders, not updating their webpages to take account of the multitude of plugins and varying bus-width architectures etc...

However, as all paths lead to Rome they say, there is more than one way to overcome an obstacle such as this.

First, if I were to have two browsers into one single target platform, I would ensure the browsers were different. For instance, in the case of squishie, I would insist on having the latest IE in full 64-bit glory, since the base OS is Microsoft Vista. Manufacturers know best. But also, I would manually download an open-source browser, such as FireFox in 32-bit flavor (BUT NOT BOTH 32-and-64 bits onto the same environment), and would therefore enjoy plan A and plan B simultaneously, without any confusion or potential conflicts.

Then, I would find out what plugins are required by this (excuse me for pointing out yet again) lame website I require, and ensure the corresponding 64-bit version of said plugin is loaded manually into IE. Once that functionality exists, then the rare and lame websites would not be a problem anymore.

I reiterate, the problem is on their websites, not on your machine... Their web designers / programmers / artists are simply just not on the ball... Nothing wrong on your client site (your machine). Their servers are simply misconfigured through incompetence. And all they have to do is to update their inventory of possible Flash/Shockwave (or other plugin) versions and automatically redirect the browser towards the appropriate plugin that will work for your type of machine.

PS: yes, the web coders are probably using Macs out of simplicity, thus why one encounters these types of issues... Sorry I couldn't resist. But it is still true. And it is their incompetence that are at the root causes of these web HTML incompabilities. Just because they tested it on their Mac doesn't make it right. Any reputable website, would certify their 'creative' work, under all major available platforms, including Windows 7 x64. In most cases, it ain't creative at all, just incompetent at best. And it is NOT the browser's fault, or Microsoft IE7's or Microsoft Vista x64's fault!

~~~~~~~~~~
It isn't the mountains ahead to climb that wear you out; it's the pebble in your shoe.
~ Muhammad Ali

Men trip not on mountains they trip on molehills.
{Chinese Proverb}

... and blame the mole, instead of taking responsibility for their own actions...

[rtfire1]

One of those sites I found when I had xp64 installed on my system still was ms own update page for xp64 i would get an error and it would bring up the 32 bit version to have me run the ms update software.

[WinTard]

You see, you're the client, the server on their side, does the 'serving'. If something incongruent happens in the 'menu' offered, the problem logic is still on their side. Do you understand what I am talking about?

And anyway, these bugs are rare. But it is important in order to circumvent them, to understand the root causes. So XP x64 is at least what six years old? Vista x64 is at least 3. Windows 7 Ultimate Beta Build 7000 x64 is fresh as of December last year. What I am saying is for the past six years, things have improved immensely. Even Microsoft had (and probably still have) bugs on their various websites. So what?

Once you understand the root causes, you can take appropriate manual actions to circumvent said problem. Problem no more!

~~~~~~~~~
To the man who only has a hammer in his toolkit, every problem looks like a nail.
~ Abraham Maslow

If we can really understand the problem, the answer will come out of it, because the answer is not separate from the problem.
~ Jiddu Krishnamurti

Message was edited by: WinTard

This forums software is driving me nuts! I just spent the last 10+ minutes trying to add a whitespace CR/LF between the text and quotes... :( {At least it wasn't Microsoft IE or OS fault...}