[TechieXP]

I agree with everything you said...just not the context and I will try to shrten why.
Your argument of popularity vs quality = GM vs Ford. Well out of the big 3 we all know Ford sells a better quality product, yet GM still has more cars on the street. Why? Because they have more popular models. Also most insurance companies cahrge you a higher rate on them..why? Because these models are also many of the most stolen. The only vehicle Ford makes that I know people want to steal is the Mustang and the Explorer...do I need to list the models stolen in GM's line? And in that premise are GM cars easier to steal. I know they use to be because they all had electric starters. all you had to do was bust teh column and put 2 wires together. That doesn't work now.

Same with Windows vs OSX. In reality we can't make a true fair assumpton on which OS is more secure. One reason, is...since lest people have a Mac system vs a Windows system...then you also have less users who can provide a way in using a frontdoor attack. Next, a hacker knowing more people use Windows means the payoff of his 15 minutes of fame would be higher. If a huge Mac Attack was to happen...the damage would be far less...however teh only people who would talk about it more..would be us Windows users. OSX/Safari...suffered the same potential as Windows/IE with the attack where a rogue script was introduced on the back of the Flash installer. This is a frontdoor attack that required teh user to execute teh script by running what appear to be the flash installer. If he/she had ran it from Adobe's web site that frontdoor attack would not have been there.

Also you said you applied less patches in OSX? How so. In 2008 alone...Mac OSX had over 250 patches/updates to the OS in one year. While Windows Vista in 2008 needed 1/2 that any. Also out of all those patches, MSFT has less that were for vulnerabilities in Windows vs what Apple was patching for...which was for that.

In fact based on data I read from Securia, OSX has had more updates and patches to OSX period which counts as on platform...vs Windows Vista as one platform as a brand new OS. In fact OSX has gone through 4 builds on the existing kernel vs Vista which is just getting its first one. And OSX I believe was release in late 2001 just before XP. Windows XP in comparison has had no build updates. All versions of XP were built on kernal 5.1.2600 XP Pro, and MCE are simply another version with different features. Also...Apple manages to always keeps there updates secret...but even a siply small update in Windows gets big news. In fact even with Apple's case when an update is critical, I have never heard a media outlet broadcast...but when it is Windows....you hear it on the radio and on TV. Why?

Out of the billions of Windows users, only a few know millions seems to be having any serious issues. Why do so few have so many problems?
Quality and popularity aside...again its numbers. Billions of users multiplied by a single problems...means its a big problem. If one person has a contagious diesease and walks into New York...finding him is way more important...as oppose to if he went out to a town in the middle of teh California desert.

If Windows was of poor quality for Billions to be using it...then they wouldnt be using it. And that is our point. The problems in Windows could potential affect everyone, but they always only plague a select few. No one know anyone in Apple camp bec they manage to keep it quiet...or maybe no one cares bec teh group is so small. And since Linux is even smaller you hear about the eve less than Apple.

Another issue you overlooked. Most Windows users dont eve know how to identify teh causes of problems in Windows. When they see an error message or get an BSOD they assume its Windows. Those are ways Windows learts you of problems...that doesn't mean it is teh problem. BSOD's are usually problems with hardware...mostly with an exception when Windows tried to use the supplied driver to communicate with said hardware. BSOD's are also cause by failed hardware. Again this is how Windows works...not a flaw. The concept is to stop..before more damage and be incurred. Also Appz you ibstall can cause havoc too. Again many dont look at all these. When I work on ppls pcs, I founds most probles were cause by the user and something they installed improperly, or was the wrong stuff to begin with. Software is only as safe as teh person using it, as cars are with who is driving it. Both have a measure of security and insecurity...it is hampered or increased by the user.

[TechieXP]

Microsoft has more happy customers, then the amount of customers Apple has period.

[TechieXP]

Quote from YOU - With Apple, I can upgrade my hardware any time. No activation, serial numbers, or begging guys in India to please let me run the OS that I paid for. I can take a hard drive out of a Mac Mini, put it on a Mac Pro, and it will probably boot and run fine.


Is true and for good reaso - Microsoft, on the other hand, goes to great lengths to prevent that.

You can't upgrade hardware on a Mac anytime you want. It will fisr depend on what Mac you're referring too. Since drivers for hardware in Macs arent avail online that is untrue. Now if you have a newer x86 Macs then it is true but only to a point. First you have to find a Mac compatible hardware...not as easy to find and isn't as much choice either. And you need to be way more technical to install hardware in a Mac. In a PC I can do a processor swop in 5 mins or less...its a 15min job in a Mac if you are savvy enough.

Since Apple makes teh OS and puts it on the machine themselves then there is no need to activate it. MSFT doesn't have this luxury as they are building Windows to work on other machines. Also...Activation is to prevent piracy. No one want to steal OSX because it only runs on an Apple. Tell Steve to allow Apple to have a PC version of OSX and watch how fast that changes. Fact - People would rather steal Windows then to steal Mac OSX and download Linux for free. Look on torrents...type in Mac OSX and see how few downlaods there are...and then type Windows Vista or Windows XP and see how many downlaods there are.

Next...pulling a drive out eth system and it boots on another. This is also not true of Macs or PC...but it can be in soe instances. It will depend on what syste and whether you bought a retail version of Windows or if it was a preinstalled Windows or you reinstalled using an OEM CD. OEM's disks you get from the MFR are hacked CD's. The manufacter has added extar code which prevents teh CD from working on any brand other than theirs. Also teh software is preactivated. if I have a Dell OEM disk...I can in fact use it on almost any Dell...depend on how old the system is. Example..I can use a Dell Vista CD on a Dell as old as 2001 and it will work. I know because I used a disk to test it on a Dell Optiplex 110 which is fro the days of when XP first was released.

Nex it will depend on hardware. If you take a hard drive that has Windows on it and you move it to a system that has similar hardware it will in fact boot. The chipsets are teh main issue. If my motherboard has the 945 chipset and I move it to a totally different computer and it has the sae chipset it will work. But if teh new board has an Nvidia chipset it won't work.

This the same as a Mac. if you take a drive out of an x86 Mac and place it into a mac that has teh PowerPC chipset...it will not work.
Don't make a bet on information that you aren't even sure of. Both Windows and Mac OSX identify hardware using similar means...The system BIOS..especially on x86 because that is how it always worked. If you install a hardware...and teh BIOS doesn't know its there...Windows won't either. So developers may write a specially installer to tell Windows how to find it. This is teh reason you can't in many cases use retail drivers on a system that has integrated hardware. Raetils drivers for sound and video cards are wriiten to expect a card plugged into a slot. OEM's however in most cases buy teh chipsets and attached them to a motherboard. Sometimes retail drivers work..ostly they don't. That is why you must get them fro your OEM. This is also true of Apple...

Before Apple went x86 you couldn't downlaod drivers for Apple hardware at all. If a hardware failed you had to replace it with the exact same piece. This is not true of PC's. If any integrate hardware failed..like video, sound, modem, NIC...I can go out and buy any of my choosing and it doesn't matter if I buyilt the pc or an OEM did. Even with x86 Macs teh only hardware you can change is RAM, Drives and the video card providing you can download a driver or get a CD for it. But you can't just pick any hardware...you have to pic certain ones. With PC's I can pick what I want period.

[MarioJP]

ok back for another round fully rested and relaxed after pulling a one nighter. Anyways speaking of laptops and macbooks. I am starting to see laptops with quad core that sports 9800gtx. Simply put these laptops i wll put and even the newest macbook pro 17" to shame.

http://www.newegg.co...Core%202%20Quad

This is just the beginning and nice to see that pc gaming is also expanding to mobility. Now you can game on the go. one interesting Laptop you should look at is the toshiba one very interesting beast. I call it "kane's edition from tiberium wars" because it looks like it came from nod. And its very beefy too.

If am going to spend 2400 i would get something like this instead of a overpriced macbook pro only that its way underpowered. Just can't be matched.

[Evildave]

TechieXP said:

Microsoft has more happy customers, then the amount of customers Apple has period.

The same can be said about Communist China.

More people there content with the totalitarian state than there are people in most nations.

[Evildave]

WinTard said:

>G'day

Another live one!

What a load of bull from a one post wonder! Who's going to take seriously? You don't even use Windows and it shows. So you claim verified... Verified by whom? By you? Oh by your IT guys? Yes I see great competence... All these facts on your simple good word? You're just spreading FUD. You are a Troll.

You bashing fanboys crack me up.

Streuth!

Wow, what an unwelcoming comment for that noob.

Spreading 'FUD' about Micro$oft? The KING of FUD attacks who stole the crown from IBM?

[Evildave]

TechieXP said:

Your last paragraph answers the question. In true reality no one really knows how hard or how easy Macs are to penetrate, because no one is doing so in the first place. If you had a hacker spending as much time hacking Macs that they spend doing Windows, then we can give a more truthful answer.

NO ONE? Something man was not meant to know? As someone else posted here, Mac went from hundreds to zero when they switched to OSX and kept growing. Seems to me people would've kept trying to make Mac viruses for the 100,000,000 or so Macs in operation and browsing the web. Apparently, it IS harder.

Quote

Unix is not a desktop system...it is a server system. Servers in general are ore secure then a desktop. Servers are ran by ppl with esculated rights who are paid to know what they are doing.

Yup. There you go. Linux/UNIX heads are the 'Mensa' 1% who know better... and they chose Linux/UNIX.

Quote

The latest ppl who got bit, were in cases where hackers found a way in...and guess what they weren't using Windows. In order to get inside a firewall or proxy is by some not so smart user. We have Nortin and it was up to date and so was our patches...yet one of our users introduced a virus into his PC...bec he isn't a sart users...he clicked on some BS on a malware driven website. However the infection only messed up his machine.

So what you're saying is that even though you had all of your Windoze 'security' ducks lined up, some guy managed to get his windoze machine infected anyway.

And that the 'evil hackers' use unspecified non-windoze OS, because after all, non-windoze OS is only for us 'evil hackers'.

Quote

EVILDAVE did you read this? lol

How could anyone possibly 'know' whether I read this?

[MarioJP]

so your saying evildave that if everyone switches to macs or unix based that the virus nightmare is over. Now that is the funniest joke i have ever heard that one truly made my day.

[TechieXP]

The fact Microsoft has products in other markets, doesn't mean its trying to dominate it. That is such a misnomer. When it comes to entertainment, the is music, video, tv,radiophones,consoles, computers and so many more. Sony has products in all of those and then some. Does that mean they are trying to dominate. Or are they just trying to be diverse.

Windows CE is just another way Windows can be compiled to work on another type of device. It has nothing to do with domination. However it does ope up the door for the device to do more. Sae with Windows Mobile. The reason phones can do what they do is because of the diversity of the hardware being controlled by the software. iPhone is a great device not because of the features...because ALL of iPhones features can be found on phones before it existed...the sifferent is how Apple compiled OSX to run on the device. However an OS on a phone is nothing new as Palm and Microsoft already had plenty of devices before Apple jumped into teh market. And I a sure you're not going to say Apple entered teh market to dominate it...are you?

It took Apple a couple years to even equal the sales Motorola did with a much simpler phone the Razr. However it took the development of a totally better phone to accomplished teh task. Before iPhone teh most sold phone in the world was Razr. Now lets do a test. If Apple simply made a phone that was a flip version and it only had features that were similar to Razr...would iPhone be where it is now? NO.

The fact MSFT entered teh video game market, does that mean they are trying to dominate it? NO. Sony was forced into the market by Nintendo. What became teh PlayStation was suppose to be a 16bit CD addon to teh SNES just like what Sega CD was to Genesis. But Nintendo backed out. Since Sony spent millions on development they simply released it under their own name. And too off. But is is obvious it was luck as both PS2 and PS3 have been failed sequels to teh original. The idea is to get better each time...Sony got worse. Xbox was pretty good as was toughted as a modified PC. However why is 360 doing so good? Because it offers more. Which is why Windows has always been teh better platform. But Xbox doesn't use Windows OS at all. It simply uses DirectX which is a platform used on x86...it doesn't require developers to start over like they had 2 with PS2 and PS3 which both have different platforms each. Since 360 is easier to develop for it has taken number one spot...even over more experienced Sony. And it is obviously Sony makes quality hardware...but what good is quality if it is boring. AKA Unix/Linux/OSX...vs Windows.

Windows greatness is obviously is the fact that it is a platfor that can be adapted quickly and with the least expense. It si also a familiar platform that doesn't change a hell of a whole lot. As Windows got better it also forced developers to stop writing crappy appz and drivers...and it stants to get better. Apple has a advantage over MSFT because they make practically all their own appz or they are on top of developers that develop appz for them. MSFT can't possibly do that. but they do provide teh proper tools. But a tool is only as good as the person using it. No matter how expensive it is. Just because you paid $1000 for a snowblower doesn't mean you will do a better job bec you spent more. AKA Macs..The reason Windows took off is simply because it offered more for less money...and that hasn't changed...its just teh gap in that area has become a lil smaller. But the other guys don't do it better.

It doesn't matter how much a products name influences a market. If something better comes along ppl will jump on it. Look at retail...Sears and Wards appeared to have had it locked...the Wal-Mart came out of nowhere and took over almost instantly. Best Buy came and wiped out Silo, and Circuit City and others...it took 50+ years to unseat Sears. A brand known for quality and high prices too. Where are they now and if Apple didn't change their ways they would be gone too. Even though Sears is hanging...its just a matter of time. The only reason CVS hasn't dorwned Walgreens is bec they are so big...but Eckerds was big too...when you can't beat them you join them

Steve Jobs took teh easy way out. Since MSFT did all the work teh easiet was to insure Macs could be just as compatible as PC's was to become PC. And just like any PC you ca install Windows on it. However you still can't be as we are. if you buy a printer you need to make sure it works with Mac and Windows...and any of the onces that do cost more. And if you dont shell out the extra money you will find as many did...Installing Windows on a Mac basically makes Macs another Windows OEM...the only difference is MSFT has less control over Apple...but they still have to live by teh same rule...1 copy of Windows per Apple...one copy of Office per Apple...

You can downplay Windows all you want...but for at least the next decade Windows will still be number 1. Apple managed to get 10% of teh computer market in 33 years...and MSFT managed to lose 4% or 5% in the same said time after having 95% just a few years ago.at that rate it would take able a 1/2 century to get 1/2 of what MSFT has.

Mac is now a PC. It is x86...it runs Windows...Big Brother has defeated...that means if 1/2 of Apple's crowd bought Macs and install Windows XP on it or Vista...that means MSFT has 93% of the computer...PC B$%#&H...(AKA iphone b$%#&h) - http://www.youtube.c...h?v=qHO8l-Bd1O4

[MarioJP]

> Windows greatness is obviously is the fact that it is a platfor that can be adapted quickly and with the least expense. It si also a familiar platform that doesn't change a hell of a whole lot. As Windows got better it also forced developers to stop writing crappy appz and drivers...and it stants to get better. Apple has a advantage over MSFT because they make practically all their own appz or they are on top of developers that develop appz for them. MSFT can't possibly do that. but they do provide teh proper tools. But a tool is only as good as the person using it. No matter how expensive it is. Just because you paid $1000 for a snowblower doesn't mean you will do a better job bec you spent more. AKA Macs..The reason Windows took off is simply because it offered more for less money...and that hasn't changed...its just teh gap in that area has become a lil smaller. But the other guys don't do it better.
[/quote]

And also the fact if windows is not a os it is definitely a competitor to console gaming LOL. Maybe its a sign that MS just wants to switch markets?? Its doing quite well in the console market. Who knows it might become another sony. Seems like MS is leaning towards the entertainment industry more than it is with the business and server side. Either way Microsoft still making profits.




> Mac is now a PC. It is x86...it runs Windows...www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHO8l-Bd1O4
[/quote]
Only difference is you pay more for a underpowered mac since you put it that way LOL.

[Evildave]

Nope. I'm saying that we who use UNIX/Linux and those Mac (also UNIX) folks are CONFIDENT in our security....

... and you Windoze users are not.

Our systems are secure without anti-virus, anti-spyware, and anti-etc. and yours ARE NOT SECURE, even with that useless junk installed and correctly confugured and patched current.

We're not the ones who make you 'feel bad' about security. Your anxiety about malware due to shoddy Windoze 'security', helpfully stimulated by anti-malware vendors is what makes you 'feel bad'. The smart Windoze shills just like to TELL YOU that everything else is 'just as bad', and you folks swallow it whole because you just don't know the difference between lies and truth, and are too lazy to do your own homework.

If 'autorun' continues to work (and I suspect that Wintard is right, and Micro$uck will keep it), it'll remain an EXCELLENT vector for malware. After all, even if they keep it ONLY for CD/DVD, something in WIndoze can search for ISO files and modify them on the hard drive. Nothing even as hard as the old 'boot sector' viruses.

...

Hey, I like that!

...

That's PURE evil!

...

Won't it be funny when windoze users panic en-masse and delete all their downloaded ISO images and destroy all of their install media along with their CDRs? After all, just to put the CD in to check whether it's infected would LAUNCH the malware! Better wreck them all before you get infected! And of course software would appear that not only claims to 'clean' those CDRs, but installs malware its self! Wonderful!

And then the more wicked 'helpers' can collect software that they claim is 'infected'. "Yeah, I need the CD key for your Adobe Creative Suite Master Collection, too... that's right, just to be sure!"

And some other people could circulate email telling people 'what to look for and delete', sort of like the old 'SULFNBK.EXE' fun and games, conning people into destroying+discarding media by the truckload.
After all, this Weird Al song ( http://www.youtube.c...h?v=k-GaRKDsz-Y ) is so FUNNY because it's true. Windoze users would be convincing each other to destroy all of their CD and DVD media within hours, with chain emails, etc., just because they heard the THREAT exists. Many wouldn't understand the difference between stamped media and CDR media, and if you tried to explain it to them, they'd keep infected media that was silver in color, or had a nice 'lightscribe' label printed on it.
Wow, thanks Microsoft for setting up and enabling all of these great pranks!
-----
Let's see, what would be required under Windows to make that work?

Some amount of ISO knowledge, and open source example code would help.

http://www.google.com/search?q=ISOeditoropen+source

Then information on Autorun

http://www.google.co...wto+autorun.inf

You'll probably want a collection of Windoze virtual machines to torture, too.

http://www.google.com/search?q=virtualmachinesoftware

And some open source compilers...

http://www.google.com/search?q=MinGW

And probably some viruses and worms to play with.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Wormsourcecode

Then some typical malware packaging to copy its self to the computer (temporarily disabling UAC, if present), modify the 'call' portion of the code to call the original autorun executable (use a padded, static buffer at a known offset or containing a 'signature' in the executable payload image), then replace the autorun.inf with a version that calls the malware, and then the malware calls the original autorun executable. The rest is just conventional malware plug-in stuff. Add its self to the registry in one of thousands of places that can cause something to be executed, and whatever else it wants to do to install its self, like pull the plug on anti-malware scanners, download the rest of the payload from the botnet and make your Windoze computer 'useful' by participating in DDOS attacks and cracking web site passwords and such.

Yup, that would work. I think it would take a week or two for someone to make a prototype that was fully functional and capable of spreading its self. Probably a month to get it tight. Probably needs some counter-measures. An ability to update/patch its self from the internet would help it stay ahead of 'security' patches. Maybe some code to dynamically rename its file by mixing vowels/consonants, so there's never anything fixed to scan for. Maybe something to dynamically relink and shuffle its self, too. After all, AV software makes CRC 'signatures' of the things that it searches for. As long as it's always mutating, and renaming its self, AV software won't be able to keep track of it or compare prior versions, or otherwise trivially detect it.

So... why is there so much malware for Windoze and not other platforms?

It's so damned easy!

It only took a few minutes to come up with a 'state of the art' malware design (but I must point out, not the malware its self - mere speculation doesn't run on a windows computer).

People at Micro$oft aren't stupid, just negligent. They already know about the autorun threat, and people there have probably argued about it since well before 1995. Unlike me, who wouldn't write the software, they are in a position to prevent it, but just don't care if people do. A security patch to plug that particular hole in the stainless steel colander that is Windows security could happen tomorrow.

OK, realistically, a security patch for LINUX (if someone discovered it had such a bone-headed hole) could happen tomorrow because a hundred people would jump on it at the same time and compete to get their fix into the kernel, and tested, and approved... but for it to trickle through Microsoft, convince the big-wigs it's necessary, put it before some focus groups, get a warm freelance body hired and assigned to it, bring him up to speed, etc., would take months. And they'd probably promise a patch for the next Service Pack or major version release, leaving all the prior windoze users in the cold. After all, 'security' the way Microsoft does it is a marketing lever. A way to get you to 'upgrade' rather than honestly fix well-know problems.

And there's the core difference in why I'm confident about my security, and you're not confident about yours.

[MarioJP]

ah here we go again i guess this is what makes dave well evil. Warning us how windows is bad because of lack of security??. Oh please they are far worst things then windows being hijacked. I don't need a secure os and compromise just so i can feel safe.

talking about paranoid. Mostly its common sense and being careful. Have felt any kind of trouble running windows wow just going off again of how your precious os is so secure that it has to run extreme limited mode. This is not enough to convince me at all. Nice try though.

I bet you have traps setup in your home too??.

[TechieXP]

Lets be fair and lets see if we can give Evildave a shot.
It is obvious that your knowledge of Linux exceeds my own. I have however played with Red Hat, Suse, Mandrake, Ubuntu, Fedora and Centros. That way you don't think I am making things up. Out of all 100+ cofusing distros that are free we don't even know who makes most of them..and none offer any technical support. If the help file and forums can't help you...NO ONE CAN. I managed to teach myself how to work with all desktop versions of Windows and ever NT, 200, 2003, Server versions and can even perform complicated installs including Active Directory, Exchange, IIS, Windows Media Server and even S SQL...all without using nothing more then help and Microsoft's website...try that with any distro of Linux.

Windows and OSX are developed by names we all know so where...name some of Linux...well we know Sun and there may be a few others...however we also out of most of them they all have skill developing software...how an OS is not one of them. If you ask anyone one who uses a computer a product made by Sun Microsystems...most will say Java. Not Linux. One company I do know that makes an OS is Solaris...i've never used or seen it in action...but it is designed for a specific task...thus it is strong only in a niche market. So it shouldn't be compared to Windows.

Now lets talk about businesses that use a lot of proprietory appz. Even a small company. The company I work for now has 25 ppl inclusing the 3 owners. One of the owners married the other from a business somewhere else. In that business my boss was there IT guy. He built there business around Lotus Notes. Now he has a new business and soe of the other business migrated over..and he still uses Lotus Notes. Notes is much more then a email cleint...most remember CC Mail...Notes allows you to create and design databases that even go beyond what can be done with SQL...and it only runs and works on a Domino Server. Now as old as Apple and Linux?unix is...there is still no Notes version for either. If IBM isn't taking them 2 seriously why should any1 else. Again we are looking at big names in computing...not the same guys. Not that they dont matter...its takes tie to become big. MSFT was a smae guy too...however it only took 10 years for them to become what they are today..

A business that has maybe 500 employees...how does he simply make the leap to Linux? They can't in many cases...It will be very expensive to make a platform leap...if busiesses are fiding teh leap from one version of Windows to be a huge task...then leaping to Linux is almost impossible. A small business...sure...maybe..but again it depends on what they do. Name me a Linux variant that works exactly like Notes that is free...and the capabilities must be equal or better.

Even OSX capabilities don't match Windows...ist not equal and it certainly doesn't exceed. This is what makes Windows better.
The only thing you all ever harp on is insecurity or errors...etc...

try having a billion users and see how many problems it brings you. The fact Apple has totally control over their platform is a benefit to them...no one ca mess it up. However Windows being so open and MSFT not haing the same control...means there is potential for risks..but teh risks don't outweight teh benefits...It is teh opposite compared to Linux/OSX...if a company jumps on those platforms with weighting associated risks they will die.

Cost..it cost way more money to certify a IT guy for Linux than it does for Windows. The hardware still cost teh same...can you run Linux on a less spec'd system vs Windows...yes...and you will have the same limits as you would with Windows. But you guys never tell that truth. try running as many software we do in Windows on a Linux machine..and see what it does. And NO...you can't do more in Linux on 256MB vs Windows either...again it depends on what you are doing. You guys never mention what you actually do one a Linux system...i know what business do...what do you do.

In fact dave....i am sure the system you are running Linux on now, you also still dual boot Windows. I would like you to send me a private message of all the progras you actually install in Linux and use. And pls provide links to where I can get them and what distro (probably Ubuntu) you are using. Based on my knowledge of computers which is advanced...i will see what is the degree of difficulty in implemeting them And i'll get back to you with an honest answer. Please don't give any hints on how...i'll figure it out.

I can give one example of something I did try...that was creating a web server...Apache configuartion requires using a text file...which by a typical computer users isn't easy to setup...theer are companies that use a GUI...I found ApacheConf...it works...but obviously you can do better using eh file only if you know how. I did learn...but it took we far longer with no GUI. In comparison in Windows Server...it took me 20 min to make a Windows achine a domain controller and get IIS running and aking a web page that worked...and in both cases I had never done it before. And I also just been playing with OSX Server...and its painful tho easier than Linux thank to teh fact OSX has a GUI and soe pretty good wizards. But Windows was still easier.

Next MySQL vs MS SQL...to start i don't know any PHP coding...however I do know how to setup webservers to use PHP and I can install Joomla, Nuke and so many other websites based on PHP...I can however do a full HTML site just using Notepad,,try that with PHP..and no i didnt go to school for it either.
Forget using a host that already has done the work for you...I am looking at implementing it yourself...again MySQL is commandline...textfile driven...MS SQL is GUI with wizards...MS SQL isn't as easy to setup as MySQL as long as you download a 3rd party software to give you a GUI. However MS SQL is easier from the beginning.

Based on what i see...a person who is a novice..has a 75% chance of completing a hard task in Windows he has never done before...vs using Linux. So if my multi-million dollar business and my only few IT guys happen to have taken the day off...the chances I could fix the problem is closer to zero..then it would be in Windows.

Having never been to school...i took a small company of 50 employees fro using Windows NT and CC Mail...and migrated them to Windows 2000 Server and Excahnge 5.5...with no certification...no previos hands on with Exchange Server below Exchange 2003 and having never worked with MS SQL...All teh guy needed was to get it setup...he knew how to get what else he needed....I did it all in a half day...now...compare that for a novice who only understands basic computer terms and see if he can do that with Linux. THE ANSWER IS NO...and i know because I tried it. and it took me 2 days to get it where it was almost a science.

[TechieXP]

Oh sorry about the typos...thats one thing MSFT needs to add to IE...spell-check. At least FireFox has it. I suck at typing my touch...and i am also to lazy to fix the mistakes..thats y fault.

[TechieXP]

You know what is so funny...Gaming and Apple being mentioned in the sae sentence. Whats even more funny...the iPhone has more games then a Mac...so you think at some point eye strain of a small screen will becaome and issue? oh and maybe the fact that they will never get to see it on a big screen?

Oh and lets suppose teh rumor is true Apple could be making a console. Here is something you can count on...it will be the first console that uses an OS. Because XBox doesn't use Windows. It will cost more than PS3. And just like the Mac...no one will want it.

In fact...since macs coe with perfectly good software...then why runi it by installing Windows. Isn't the point of getting a Mac is to get away fro Windows. Did you know Windows on a Mac is going to have the same issue? Why? Because since Macs are x86 that makes them a PC. Hurray!...Look how smart Apple is.

Look like even Apple can copy...x86, OS on a phone...computer retail store...portable music player, portable music player that plays video. All of them have been done and with a good measure of success. Creative had several porable players that played media...and the look cool too. Just just werent as small as iPod...but the Zen was...Creative just didn't market it good enough.

Hey Mario...don't you just love the fans of PC's? Even Apple PC's? They are so much like us...aren't they?

[MarioJP]

> Hey Mario...don't you just love the fans of PC's? Even Apple PC's? They are so much like us...aren't they?
[/quote]
Once you scrape off the white or grey paint and take the apple cherry off and disect . Yep its pretty much a pc. Having our intel basaed chips (x86 x64) along with nvidia 9600GT Mobile graphics.


Not to mention Mac Pros are to laugh out using the outdated Xeon quad core or should i say "skulltrail emulation" by having dual quad core that does not even make sense at all. Yep i couldn't agree with you more techiexp.



Alos the 360 does not use windows but the hardware is based on pc hardware that shares the dx with windows. This is why game developers loves the 360 over the ps3.



Whats this i hear from apple their so called "nextgen macpro is going to sport the core i7 instead of a powerpc. Stop coypying apple and make your own hardware.

[Evildave]

MarioJP said:

ah here we go again i guess this is what makes dave well evil. Warning us how windows is bad because of lack of security??. Oh please they are far worst things then windows being hijacked. I don't need a secure os and compromise just so i can feel safe.

ARE there far worse things than being hijacked and having your system (and network) exposed to outsiders?

What are they?

I mean, sure, CANCER, and maybe going blind or being a quadriplegic would put that kind of theat into perspective, but within the scope of a PC and 'security', there ain't much worse than having OTHER people inside your PC, even for a day.

Maybe it's just so ROUTINE for you Windoze users. You're used to being pwned.

Quote

talking about paranoid. Mostly its common sense and being careful. Have felt any kind of trouble running windows wow just going off again of how your precious os is so secure that it has to run extreme limited mode. This is not enough to convince me at all. Nice try though.

I bet you have traps setup in your home too??.

Now you claim we're 'paranoid' because I'm not a RETARD who runs as 'root' like a Windoze idiot all the time?

I mean, that's not the stupidest thing you've said so far, but it's right there in the Top-10 countdown.

You don't need a seatbelt to operate a car, either, or a helmet to ride a motorcycle. HAVE FUN!

[MarioJP]

[quote name='Evildave']
>

MarioJP said:

> ah here we go again i guess this is what makes dave well evil. Warning us how windows is bad because of lack of security??. Oh please they are far worst things then windows being hijacked. I don't need a secure os and compromise just so i can feel safe.
ARE there far worse things than being hijacked and having your system (and network) exposed to outsiders?

What are they?

I mean, sure, CANCER, and maybe going blind or being a quadriplegic would put that kind of theat into perspective, but within the scope of a PC and 'security', there ain't much worse than having OTHER people inside your PC, even for a day.

Maybe it's just so ROUTINE for you Windoze users. You're used to being pwned.

> talking about paranoid. Mostly its common sense and being careful. Have felt any kind of trouble running windows wow just going off again of how your precious os is so secure that it has to run extreme limited mode. This is not enough to convince me at all. Nice try though.
>
> I bet you have traps setup in your home too??.Now you claim we're 'paranoid' because I'm not a RETARD who runs as 'root' like a Windoze idiot all the time?

I mean, that's not the stupidest thing you've said so far, but it's right there in the Top-10 countdown.

You don't need a seatbelt to operate a car, either, or a helmet to ride a motorcycle. HAVE FUN!

just wow LOL but i guess. This isn't life and death situation here. We are talking about a computer software here geezes man though very funny though LOL

Just because i run under root doesnt mean i do stupid things. If only if u know how my system is setup you will probably understand more but not going to waste my time only to be ignored so i wont. I will tell you that i have a third party security software and let me tell you IT WORKS!!! won't waste my time going into details. And also i am not a computer Illerate like the masses are i am also NOT A RETARD. I don't criticize people like this like you do. I try to help not downsize them because they are using windows. With that attitude no wonder Linux is at 1% HAVE FUN. I personally like commercial software than freebies sometimes Just shows you i am not narrowminded either.



Just because it isn't your taste of platform doesn't mean others should follow suit.

[Kees]

that is such a myth. I don't know what Apple's share is at, but even 5% of all computers is not an insignificant number. Coupled with Apple's own emphasis on it's security and the constant mocking of the PC. I'd say there's is plenty of incentive and a lot of recognition to be earned by creating a high profile OS X exploit.
[quote name='CodeMercenary']
Windows security IS superior to Mac security.

Mac's have security through obscurity. The fact that no one attacks them does NOT mean they are secure. It would be like someone claiming their house is more secure than a bank because the bank was robbed but their house never has been. You'd find that a thief has a MUCH easier time breaking into your house but they aren't interested in it.



Do not confuse hacker-disinterest with security.

[WinTard]

[quote name='Evildave']
>

WinTard said:

> > G'day
>Another live one!
>
> What a load of bull from a one post wonder! Who's going to take seriously? You don't even use Windows and it shows. So you claim verified... Verified by whom? By you? Oh by your IT guys? Yes I see great competence... All these facts on your simple good word? You're just spreading FUD. You are a Troll.
>
> You bashing fanboys crack me up.
>
> Streuth!

>Wow, what an unwelcoming comment for that noob.

Quote

Spreading 'FUD' about Micro$oft? The KING of FUD attacks who stole the crown from IBM?

I somehow sensed you would bite onto this one too... And spin it up. LOL! Don't worry, I learn fast. I take pleasure in detecting patterns... Since your are Evildave, I wouldn't put it past you do be idaspud's alter ego, in light of the similar prose, style, avatar and timing... You got to admit it, coincidental eh? Hey, I'm not saying you did. I'm just saying it is a possibility... Thank you Evildave for the crowning title you bestow upon me, KING of FUD and for labeling me a villain. However I'll leave that opinion to the members of PCWorld, to discern who is spewing useless and mean-spirited FUD, and who is attempting to redress a wrong, when BS is being spewed out indiscriminately by iAMZzzz... And while I respect your opinion and perspective, I couldn't care less what you think of mine.

Well for the record, not for you Evildave (or that idaspud troller), but for the greater good of our community, here is my perspective of the event:

Quote

> 1 posts since Feb 16, 2009
>
>idaspud wrote:
>Oh please, our systems were updated the minute the patch came out. That stopped NOTHING. Some moron went somewhere or clicked on an attachment and infected the system with Conficker ANYWAY. It was executed internally, which has been verified. The antivirus program was up to date, but didn't catch it. A LATER definition update was able to catch a lot of it AFTER the fact, but the virus/worm, is still alive and well and the damage is done. This one is very tough to clean up after the fact. Our IT guys are going crazy tracking it down. This is NOT an unusual story with windows, so please stop with this "if you would have patched the system" bit. It still DOESN'T work!! If a virus gets executed from within windows, you still have a problem if the AV guys haven't caught up with it yet. Just frigging admit Windows is, and unless changes are made, will always be, a risk to use. You fan boyz and girlz just crack me up with your excises, FUD, and generally shifting blame.
>
>Now for the people with delicate feelings... Get a frigging life! Even if this WASN'T a blog, Who cares? The humor is totally warranted where Windows is concerned. I have no problem with humor aimed at Apple, Linux, or any operating system really. If they can't get it right, they DESERVE some heat, just as the government deserves the heat they get. Poor wittle babes... If you can't take the heat, get out of the fire and STFU!
>
>G'day

>
>Another live one!
>
>What a load of bull from a one post wonder! Who's going to take seriously? You don't even use Windows and it shows. So you claim verified... Verified by whom? By you? Oh by your IT guys? Yes I see great competence... All these facts on your simple good word? You're just spreading FUD. You are a Troll.
>
>You bashing fanboys crack me up.
>
>Streuth!

I am endowed with the uncanny ability to sense bad faith when I encounter it; In addition my BS detector is extremely sensitive and discerning, it is a gift...

>idaspud wrote:
>Oh please, our systems were updated the minute the patch came out. That stopped NOTHING.

Technically and otherwise, that is pure nonsense. That is just not how the conficker/downadup works. He's claiming that MS08-067 stopped nothing. Lie #1.

>idaspud wrote:
>Some moron went somewhere or clicked on an attachment and infected the system with Conficker ANYWAY.
You don't get conficker by visiting somewhere or clicking on an attachment... Lie #2

>idaspud wrote:
>It was executed internally, which has been verified.
Yeah, he probably did it himself purposely on an unpatched system, and introduced the worm into his own organization on purpose and in bad faith. And I wouldn't put these kinds of actions beyond any fanatical and moronic iAMZ... Anyway to me this is... Lie #3

>idaspud wrote:
>The antivirus program was up to date, but didn't catch it.
Says who? It's easy to make gratuitous statements. Lie #4

>idaspud wrote:
>A LATER definition update was able to catch a lot of it AFTER the fact,
More of the same BS. Lie #5

>idaspud wrote:
>but the virus/worm, is still alive and well and the damage is done.
Wrong conclusion, this was most probably purposefully done on an unpatched system, without properly updated anti-virus (or none). Lie #6 And conficker/downadup is a non issue, with everyone I work or socialize with. And in the entire population of collection of my peers, colleagues and friends, not a single person has encountered any single specimen of the worm, and most probably if they did, it got zapped before they even knew it. So where are we for idaspud's lies? Ah Lie #6.

>idaspud wrote:

Quote

This one is very tough to clean up after the fact.

Another load of bull. Does anyone start to see a pattern here? The fix is so simple and free. Run MSRT the Malicious Software Removal Tool provided by Microsoft. That's in case you run no antivirus. But most antivirus programs will also fix it automatically for you, it is after all their reason for being... Lie #7

>idaspud wrote:
>Our IT guys are going crazy tracking it down.
This is laughable! None of my counterparts, in my organization, or through professional association even encountered the infection! Lie #8

>idaspud wrote:
>This is NOT an unusual story with windows, so please stop with this "if you would have patched the system" bit. It still DOESN'T work!!
Ah, now comes the FUD... Generic talk, bla bla bla, pure inane BS. And it applies to all unpatched operating systems. PERIOD. Lie #9

>idaspud wrote:
>If a virus gets executed from within windows, you still have a problem if the AV guys haven't caught up with it yet.
Yes if you use admin rights. The exact same behavior applies to OS X, Linux, BSD, Unix, you name it. Where did the first rootkit appear anyway? (Hint: Unix, thus the term rootkit). So more FUD (Fear Uncertainty Deceit). Oh no AV on OS X? Poor bastards! Lie #10

>idaspud wrote:

Quote

Just frigging admit Windows is, and unless changes are made, will always be, a risk to use.

Admit what? Where did that FUD come from? That applies to all! More stupid BS disguised as a revelation! Lie #11

>idaspud wrote:
You fan boyz and girlz just crack me up with your excises, FUD, and generally shifting blame.
Look who's talking. Well rats know the way of rats. More FUD in disguise. That deceptive technique is called a red herring. Now this is bashing #1

>idaspud wrote:
>Now for the people with delicate feelings... Get a frigging life! Even if this WASN'T a blog, Who cares? The humor is totally warranted where Windows is concerned. I have no problem with humor aimed at Apple, Linux, or any operating system really. If they can't get it right, they DESERVE some heat, just as the government deserves the heat they get. Poor wittle babes... If you can't take the heat, get out of the fire and STFU!
>
>G'day
Five more insults... Nice first post eh? Contributes a lot. Very positive... Five more bashings towards the community.

So as a nice first post, we get 11 lies and 6 bashings in two paragraphs. Wow!

Really, this is the kind of decent contributing members of the community PCWorld wants or needs... Tell me more please.

~~~~~~~~~~
The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is.
~ Winston Churchill

True courage is not the brutal force of vulgar heroes, but the firm resolve of virtue and reason.
~ Alfred North Whitehead

Virtue never dwells alone; it always has neighbors.
{Chinese Proverb}

Virtue travels uphill, vice travels downhill.
{Chinese Proverb}

All virtue is summed up in dealing justly.
~ Aristotle

:)