[rgreen4]

Flashorn said:

Hey bulletproof !!

Just a few questions. You have Norton ! Is it possible that it is doing a boot-up scan before loading XP completely ?

That's a good catch. Once when installing Avast it asked me that question about doing a boot scan, and I mistakenly said yes. It took 45 minutes to boot. I un-installed and then re-installed Avast! and this time said no. Machine boots in under a minute.

[smax013]

FWIW, everytime I have installed Avast, the boot scan was ONLY a one time thing. It does not scan upon boot one any of my systems anymore.

[rgreen4]

Today is a good day - I learned something new. I never did a second boot, as I assumed that it did it every time and re-did it. But then you know what happens when one assumes.

[bulletproof]

smax: chkdsk ok

flash: working on the .net issue through the links you provided. Raymond.cc was a promising read. I will post as soon as I get through this.

SW: I have programs I use that require the .net framework



Also, Norton is not set up to scan on start up. While this suggestion was nearly enlightening, as it turns out when my system is loading it gets to the desktop and begins to load the start up programs then all calm breaks loose as the HDD goes silent for the entire 20 minutes before suddenly "waking up" and finishing the rest of the boot up.After checking my Norton AV settings it dawned on me that if it were the AV doing a start up scan then the HDD would be quite active for that entire time. But thanks.



Also (sorry), the Uniblue Processlink is a program that places an icon link in the processes section of the Task Manager in front of every running process. If I see a process that I don't recognize I can click on the icon in front of that process and it will open my default browser to www.processlibrary.com, linking to a page that provides me info on that running process. The registry software that I use is 3B Software's Windows Registry Repair Pro. It has been a very good program for me and I use it on this laptop and my home PC.



Also (why not), thanks for pointing out the JAVA update. Taking care of that now as well.



=)

Options >>

| |

[bulletproof]

Java up to date. Nice to see a successful installation occur. Unfortunately the article, which was intersting finding someone who has a story I can relate to, was a dead end (at the moment, I guess). The link to download the tool is defunct (at the moment, I guess).



As an aside, I updated Windows Installer with v 4.5 and removed the .net framework 2.0 installation files; tried reinstall v 2.0 but got same error at same point: happens near end and tells me the installation version of .net framework 2.0 is incompatible with a previously installed version (say wha-?). Good grief! Whatever happened to executing a a simple command? Where's the "I don't care what happens if I do this" button? Or the "don't protect me from me" option in the System Properties! It's not like I can't possibly completely and thoroughly take the legs out from under the OS as it is now. Certainly, as the owner of the license, there may come a point when I have to say, "Newman! All is lost! Time to format the HDD and start over from scratch!" Or as close to scratch as I could be depending on the state of my back-up. "Stand back! I'm destroying my personal stuff which could bring the Microsoft Corporation to its knees!" I mean, plugging a hole by changing rights or permissions or access is just plain lazy. And I'm plain crazy! I think I'm getting used to the 20 minute start-up time. I turn my laptop on and then go do something involving or meaningful and then, like magic, when I return it's sitting there purring, ready to crunch something. If I don't need to restart :p and I'm not leaving with it then I can just put it into that mild coma and then, shazaam!, when I need it again it fires up in about 2 seconds!



Holding out hope.

[Flashorn]

Hey bulletproof!!



Ok, sorry about the dead link. I went to Aaron Stebner's blog so you can

find more info. and also read a bit more on the tool itself. The last time it was

updated was on Tuesday so, you should be able to get the right info.

http://blogs.msdn.co...es/8904493.aspx .



The tool you would be downloading is from this site :

http://cid-27e6a35d1.../self.aspx/BlogTools/dotnetfxcleanup_tool.zip .



It is located in the upper left hand corner and very inconspicuous :





Hope this will somehow help. I know about bad installs with the .Net as I went through

it a while ago. (I should mention that it was in XP Home)But with the help of his tool ,

managed to install properly. The problems

you are experiencing now could be the cause for this. If we could somehow pinpoint

the cause , I'm sure we could get the .Net to install properly. Anyhow , give it a shot and

we will see if this works.



FLASHORN. !http://forums.pcworld.com/legacyimages/
1!

[rgreen4]

When you get to that level of frustration that you are going to do a re-install, a few things to remember.

1. Make sure that you have the original install disc for the OS and the product key (COA).

2. It would not hurt to down load and run Belarc Advisor to ensure that you have a list of all the applications and their product keys.

3. Make sure you have the install files/discs for all the applications that you are going to re-install.

4. Make sure that you have backed up all of your critical/important data.

5. If you a manufactured PC, the original install disc should have all the drivers for the motherboard, but it would not hurt to log onto the site of the manufacturer (MB manufacturer for a custom built machine) and download all the drivers. If you have a separate video card, the same holds true. BTW this would be a good time to assemble all these drivers on a separate disc.

6. Double check all the above, and then take a deep breath and insert the OS install CD and reboot the machine to boot from the CD/DVD. Reformat the HD when given the option during the install process.

7, Once the OS install is finished, re-install all the appropriate drivers. Then install the anti-malware programs. Then update anti-malware programs. Then update the OS for all updates (this may take a while), and finally re-install all the applications and restore all the data. This can be a laborious process and most of us would rather have a root canal - less pain and agony. This is also why I maintain a clone of my operating drives so I don't have to do this.

[bulletproof]

Flash: Read article and have downloaded the tool. I hope that I am about to embark upon the final leg of my journey...I've been dying to click on the "yes, my question has been answered" selection. Anyway I will post in awhile my results. Thanks for hunting it (the tool) down for me



rg4: Thanks for the check list. I've copied and pasted and printed the sucker already. It really helps to have something I can check off should it be necessary to embark on that journey. I have a tendency to leave without my keys which manifests itself in other step by step tasks I undertake.



=)

[bulletproof]

UPDATE:



Kudos to Flash for solving my .net framework issue! The .net 2.0 is properly installed and functioning. Unfortunately, boot up issue was not solved by it. I am still in the process of Updating Widows from the "Repair" I did from the Installation DVD. So far all updates have installed but still waiting on the big one (Win Service Pack 3) which it is currently downloading. I will do this with my AV off as well as other protection software turned off and see how it goes. I'll return as soon as I can! BTW, is there a logging tool that will log what's loading and the time of the load during boot up?



=)

[bulletproof]

Okay. Win SP 3 won't install, LT still takes 20 minutes to boot up.



Considering hardware, though I replaced my RAM not long after this problem started on the advice of a local Tech (I really didn't think at the time that that was the problem because Dell has a pretty extensive tool that I can load up before the OS and run which took about 1-2 hours to go through its battery of tests). Anyway, the RAM was only $15 (!) and was alittle speedier than the two I already had installed so it was a win-win situation. But what about the HDD? The chkdsk was okay. Will run scandsk for the heck of it and go ahead and defrag. Also, how about the CPU itself? I guess probably not. The Dell tool also runs a test on it, plus, after Windows does finally load, everything runs just fine (no blue screens, no mysterious restarts, it's not even freezing up on me).



Thanks again to Flash for the .net fix



Time to raise a toast to Jamaica (cheers) and call it a night.

[Flashorn]

Hey bulletproof !!



Ok, that's out of the way. Now, you might try and install SP3 from a CD available from

MS (but latter). It probably won't install until we have this 20 minute thing resolved.



I know you don't like to perform useless tasks so, answer me this; when you booted

in safe mode , did it take 20 minutes to get to your desktop ? If you have already mentioned it

I didn't notice it while reading over the thread. If you wouldn't mind doing it over again but, this

time , go Off Line > Disable All security > boot in safe mode. If it is a conflict of software then,

this might give us something to go on.



Another question , When did this all started ? Did you install software or was it after the Virus

you mentioned. I Copy & Pasted your log and uploaded it to VirusTotal but, it came back clean.

Oh, the next time you paste a HJT , make sure you are not updating Windows. All of those 04

entries makes it harder to read.



As far as the Boot Record goes , I don't know of any app. that would do this. Good idea though.

Maybe other members might have or know of a app. that could help out.

Well, that's all the help I can be for now. Post back with those few answers and see how it goes.



FLASHORN. !http://forums.pcworld.com/legacyimages/
1!

[bulletproof]

Flashorn: Thanks for getting back to me. I've been laid up with a 2 day hangover so I couldn't get back as soon as I meant. =) just kidding, nothing but life and living getting "in the way"

It takes about 3 minutes to load in Safe Mode, no "pauses" occur in the HDD seeking.



I don't remember installing anything new, only updates for security stuff, run of the mill. My first reaction when I encountered the issue was a system restore to a couple of days before that day; however, that did not help so I went further back on my restore to December with the same result.



As far as the virus is concerned, it wasn't discovered until after I had been dealing with the issue for a week or two. I re-installed Lavasoft's Ad-Aware with the "Anniversary Edition Pro" and ran a full system scan which turned it up (I guess Norton was sleeping at the wheel).



I don't know if you caught this in my earlier posts, but if I run msconfig with "Services" disabled it will boot in a normal amount of time (actually, a little faster since much of my system tray doesn't load). I tried going through it, enabling services one by one to isolate the problem but it snuck back in on me somehow. I do know that I can enable all Windows services and boot over and over without issue. But, as you know, that leaves out some things I can't do without (WiFi for one). It's an incredibly tedious task, but I can see it may be worth trying again to go through those services one by one.



BTW, I ran sfc /scannow and it was a-ok, whereas before fixing the .net 2.0 issue it spit out a list that was somewhat unnerving.



Thanks again, and to all interested parties.

[mphenterprises]

bulletproof said:

It takes about 3 minutes to load in Safe Mode, no "pauses" occur in the HDD seeking.

Hi Bulletproof and welcome to the PCWorld Communities. :D




I have been following this Discussion for a bit. At this point, I fully agree with all the suggestions you have received so far. However, the quoted statement intrigues me. You state your computer takes three minutes to load up in Safe Mode, at what point do you start the clock?

Safe Mode loads with the least amount of drivers possible. While in Safe Mode, from boot up to full access takes me no longer than 60 seconds. Do you start the clock from boot up or do you start the clock after you select "Safe Mode" from the Advanced Options menu?

[bulletproof]

mph..: I clocked it last night, and from the moment I selected "Safe Mode" from the Advanced Options menu it took 2min 48secs to boot. Do you think the "normal boot up" issue is revealing itself in a smaller way in my "safe mode boot"?



This would probably be a good time to update on my progress of going through my running services in msconfig...through some research I've come to learn that msconfig doesn't list all the services that load as explained here, so I really feel like I just got the trick question wrong. I am going to look at the services.msc though I have a suspicion that I will feel the need to rip my eyes out and curse the imperfection of life rather than even pretend like I could go through a more lengthy list than the one I've been staring at for the past 2 weeks, months, years, whatever it's been!



Thanks again =)

[mphenterprises]

I just ran a test and here are my results:

I have a Dual Boot system (Windows XP and Windows Vista). After selecting to restart the computer in Windows XP and tapping F8 to access Safe Mode, I started the clock when I selected "Safe Mode" from the Advanced Options Menu...

- 45 seconds to Safe Mode Desktop screen with the words "Safe Mode" in each corner

- 52 seconds until the disclaimer about Safe Mode and System Restore appeared (add three (3) seconds to read disclaimer and click Yes)

- 67 seconds until all Desktop icons appear and have full utilization of Safe Mode

Full Disclosure: My computer specifications are much greater than yours so that may be why there is such a difference in time. However, I believe 2 minutes and 48 seconds is a bit long, for Safe Mode access.





I reviewed your previous posts and this stuck out at me:

"It gets all the way to the Desktop and Taskbar and loads my SYnaptic Pointing Device before the HD suddenly goes quiet. At this point, if I mouse over the Taskbar my pointer becomes animated but I cannot bring up the Start Menu or the Taskbar Menu by right-clicking on Taskbar. The only thing I can do during this mysteriously quiet period is ctrl-alt-del the Task Manager into existence."

What this tells me is that A) the Operating System is fine and B) there is some application that is set to startup that hangs the boot up process. I see that you have confirmed that Norton is not running a system scan during startup. Within this Community, there are numerous people who would not recommend Norton because of its heavy resource load. Obviously Norton cannot be the culprit with every issue. However, as much as I do not want to blame Norton for every issue, we have had Discussions within this Community where Norton caused all types of issues.

I also noticed that you indicated you could access the Task Manager. It appears you have done quite a bit of research on your own but I did not notice if you ever checked the Processes tab of the Task Manager to see what process(es) is(are) taking up the most CPU Usage during startup. If you have not done that, can you do that for us now?

If the above suggestion does not yield any concrete evidence, I have not noticed if you have tried this or not but if you have not, I would advise you to...at least temporarily...completely remove Norton from your computer and then try again. If the boot up time still takes upwards of 20 minutes, then you know Norton was not the culprit and you can reinstall it.

The most effective way to completely uninstall Norton is to use the Norton Removal Tool provided by Symantec. Once you download this tool and follow the steps, this tool will remove all traces of Norton from your computer. Please note that if you have any other Symantec or Norton applications installed in your computer (for example Norton Ghost), this tool will remove that application as well.

Once removed, restart the computer and see if you have the same issue.

[coastie65]

Hey bulletproof, I have read through this thread. You said you were recently infected, but have cleaned it out. I have found from experience that these utilities, as good as some are, don't necessarily clean out everything ( as in my case ). If you can remember the name of the infection you found, then you need to google it. Once you find it, then look for a Manuel Removal option. Make note of anything pertaining to the registry and processes ( print out if necessary ). I would recommend doing this next part in safe mode. Go into the registry and check to see if any of the entries that may have been listed in the manuel removal instructions are there. If so then remove them ( delete ). Once done, then check for any thing that may be in processes, if in fact there were any listed in the manual removal instructions. I found this to be the case when I was infected. Scans came up clean after removal, but still had problems. I went back to the Trojan info site and checked the manuel removal section. There was in both the registry and processes. I deleted all that was in the registry ( 1 item ) and the processes ( 2 items ) and that took care of things. coastie65

[bulletproof]

Thanks, mph. Been considering that very thing but I'm glad I waited because you've given me the right way to do it. I will return this evening after I have a chance to implement this suggestion.



May I say that I would have never bought Norton AV if it had not been for PCWorld's positive spin, not to mention Norton's Internet Security taking the top spot in recently published testing. Oh well, Editors gotta eat and this ain't Consumer Reports. If this turns out to be the cause I will be looking for a new AV if anybody wants to drop a name or two.



=)

[bulletproof]

I will research that more as well regardless of what my results are with removing Norton AV.



Thanks coastie

[rgreen4]

bulletproof - you might want to download install files for Avast!, a free anti-virus software, and SuperAntiSpyware, a free anti-spy application. Then when you have removed Norton's, you can install them so you won't be without protection. I run both and like them. (I run the paid version of SAS when they had an option for lifetime subscription a while back).

When you load Avast! there is an option to do a boot time scan, that scans the entire hard drive during the boot process. I usually have bypassed it thinking that it was activated on every boot, but have been recently advised it only runs on the first boot after installation. It will take 30-40 minutes to run completely and holds up the boot process on the first boot after install, but has the advantage that it scans before the malware can become active.

If you find that Norton's was not the culprit and want to go back then you can easily remove the free software at no cost.

[smax013]

rgreen4 said:

It will take 30-40 minutes to run completely and holds up the boot process on the first boot after install, but has the advantage that it scans before the malware can become active.

It can take longer. Depends on how big your drive is and how much "crap" you have on the drive. Keep in mind that [~22087] (and myself) tend to only have Windoze and programs on our boot drives and store "files" (documents, movies, songs, etc) on a different drive, so our boot drives are typically small (relatively speaking) and don't have a whole lot on them. Thus, his 30-40 minutes might not apply to your situation.