[PCWorld]

Post your comments for Analysts: Macs Cost More Than PCs, but Have Same Hardware here

[wrathforger]

SkyDrive is a pretty awesome service and it is free too. Making your own computers is waaay cheaper than getting a Mac.

[WinTard]

I would like to commend one of the first non-biased news article I read on PCWorld.

The bottom line for me is simple: Cost/Performance ratio.

First, there never was any race between Apple vs the world. I don't know where this myth got started. Probably in a bar with a bunch of drunken patrons.

I do not own Apple hardware simply because for years, and now confirmed by analysts, I think it isn't cost effective yet. The day Apple becomes competitive like any other PC, then I shall consider them. I would be foolish not to. Similarly, considering them now, is ... Except when there is a real reason behind it. For instance, I can outperform a Mac Pro entry level, with a single 4-core CPU and 3GB RAM with a barebones TigerDirect 4-core and 12GB by about $1200. However, if I had to max out the Mac Pro with two CPU's and 32GB RAM, today, I cannot find the required parts. Sure there are motherboards that outperform the Mac Pro only costing $250~$350 and supporting two CPU sockets quad-core Xeon and 48GB RAM, however, they do not support 3 nVidia SLI slots...

My point is I would go Apple, if I had to, but at the moment do not have to. Also considering these facts never lasts, with Intel's imminent announcement due this month about their new i7 dual socket based on the dual processor Nehalem-EP, aka Gainestown, a flurry of motherboards will ensue. with corresponding competition.

All these empty arguments about OS X vs Windows vs Linux are a moot point IMHO. It's just a matter of preferences. They each have advantages and disadvantages.

Why not use them all and find out for yourself, which flavor you prefer? Chocolate, Vanilla or Pistachio?

Perpetuating into any 'contest' of any sort is to give power to the myth. But numbers speak differently when people vote with their wallets.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Money talks, BS walks...

[OS11]

yeah, but making your own isn't nearly as fun as having a Mac, building your own is just too limited compared to the real thing.

[WinTard]

How would you know? Don't knock it till you try it. I have. Including Apple. Many of my colleagues and friends, and my sister have Apples in addition to PC's...

You see, eating at a restaurant, versus home cooked with love and passion are two different things...

Anyway, on the value / performance aspects, there's nothing I can buy pre-made, that will exceed what I can assemble.

Example: 12GB 4 core Intel i7 x64 for $1500 with TWO nVidia 9800GTX 512MB SLIs. For $2500 you get a lowly Mac Pro with 3GB RAM and one single nVidia not even the GTX type...

Example2: 8GB 4 core x64 $400 at TigerDirect. Hmm, find me any Apple Mac matching these specs?

Of course you will invoke this myth of superiority quality chips (made by Apple) but that is total BS. And nobody but only an Apple fanatic, would presume that OS X is superior to any and all other operating systems in existence, including the hundreds variants of Unix, including Linux...

Hey, as I said:

Enjoy your limited choices! Be happy. Just don't dump on all other enthusiasts who happen to see things differently.

[TechieXP]

I built a PCthat is quadcore for 1/3 the cost of a Mac. What did I get for so less money...

a system that supports 65nm abd 45 nm on the same socket 775...FSb of 800, 1066, 1333 and 1600 OC'd. my quadcore 2.4 can run at 3.6Ghz making it faster than any cpu you can put in a mac right now as far as clock speed. I have 7.1 audio that supports 2 other options for sound including 2 types of optical port that allow me to hook it up to any surround sound system. I have dual onboard wifi that allows me to connect or create my own wireless network. my video cards use crossfire and they feature HDMI, DVI and 7.1 and blu-ray compatible display. I use it with a 42inch tv at a blazing 1920 x resolution. and I can OC them too if I wanted...i can hook up 6 SATA, 4 eSATA, have 10 USB ports..and the list goes on...

Also this is the first time macs have used multiple cpu or cores...this is all old news on a pc...your so superior macs has only just became pc literate...but u dont seem to be. Th earticle states as a fact..macs cost as much as 40% more then a pc..and yet you still blind your eyes. On average i stated as fact macs typically cost $200 to $400 more than a similar spec'd pc and in all cases you get more for a lesser price. yet and apple fan will say its a lie...

x86 hardware is cheap...Apple charges more because they use non-standard configurations in their systems and since they are teh only ones who build them.,..they arent going to drop prices. Just like in the 80's...Apple was building tons of macs an selling hardly non. To this day Apple sells about 5 million macs a year...dells I bet sells that many in 6 mos. http://www.betanews....back/1200611329

according to that link Dell sold 14.7 system in a single quarter. Apple sells about 5 million usings per year.

More perspective...MSFT has sold almost 300 million units of teh 360 since it was released. ppl rather have an Xbox then a mac...

[OS11]

yes, but it's clear you are not into high end computing, you are more of the redneck type that builds monster cars that nobody can actually use.


and apple will sell a bit over 11,000,000 macs this year, not 5,000,000. apple breaks records every quarter and won't be affected by the recession since they provide the most computing for the $ so you might want to update your info...

but thanks for trying!

ps: the xbox uses Apple's ppc chip just so you know :)

[mjd420nova]

The only records that Apple continues to make each quarter is their profit margin because the products are over priced. They however can never outperform any PC, either manufactured or home built. Instead of being happy with what is offered with little ability to expand or upgrade, Many prefer to go with a PC that is easily serviced and modestly priced. That's why Apple only has ten percent of the market as you stated. Get your head out of the sand and check it out.

[OS11]

over priced? compared to what?

all mac models except the very high end MacPro are actually cheaper than PCs when you add up the features. sure, windows machines aren't used in as demanding of situations so you can get by with a stripped down unit.

test after test shows they are faster as well, it comes from the fact Apple gets priority on chips from Intel and Apple engineers the complete products so they have always been faster for the money spent. apple was first to have the “Nehalem” processor for example.

macs are just as expandable and upgradable as pcs, so it sounds like you are jealous or something.

[TechieXP]

no duh i know teh xbox uses teh powerpc chip which is why i brought it up. msft did better with it than Apple did. Based on figures every 5 years Apple sells on average about 65.7 million computers...Dell sold more that half that many in 2008 alone.

And actually i'm not a country boy I live in the city. And if ur mad because I build a pc that offers more than a mac for considerably less just shows u how bloated cost are for a mac. thank u.

Dell sells more pc's here and overseas...more than any other OEM or computer maker including Apple. If everyone is saying macs cost more then a typical pc spec'd teh same by as much as 40%...that is close to double. PC hardware is cheap. Xeon is a server chip...it is not designed for multimedia...it is design for server multitasking...as powerful as amc is it can't even play games well.

its a very awesome pc that cost a lot more and does nothing a pc can't do at a lower cost. That is a fact you can't deny. Name any one thing a mac can do that a Windows based pc can't...and I can name several things a Windows based pc can do that macs can't NATIVELY.

[OS11]

yes, but actually Ford uses PowerPC in every car and truck so they have the xbox beat by a wide margin. also too, xbox is a single use device selling for a fraction of what a mac sold for, so comparisons aren't very meaningful.


yes, dell sells more, but most of what they sell aren't pcs. they are factory terminals, typewritters, cash registers, etc. if it doesn't have personal data on it, it's not considered a pc.

well, when you look at the facts, dells are priced the same or a bit higher than macs. go configured a Mac mini, iMac, MacBook, MacBook Pro and prices are roughly the same. when you get to the high end macpros, dell doesn't sell that fast of machine for any price.

what you are talking about are the bare bones systems that apple doesn't sell into, so yes, dell sells more machines, but they are of lower quality too. kinda like Ford and Honda.

keyboards don't light up on PC laptops, Macs do. Mac laptops have magnetic pull away power cords, PCs don't, Macs have multi-touch trackpads, PCs don't, Macs hold their value 40% longer than PCs, battery life on Macs is around 35% longer. Macs work with sleep / wake, PCs usually don't, Macs run more software than PCs, OSX is more consistent and crashes far less. All Macs come with 802.11n and Bluetooth... on most pcs that's an option, Macs run silently, most PCs are noisy. Macs don't have spam on their hard drives, they don't get viruses, don't require anti-virus software... they work better on the web since OSX is what created http:// and www... There are many, many more but you get the idea PCs are a bad value.

[matchbox2022]

I've taken apart Mac's and Pc's, really, in full honesty, mac's actually the SAME hardware that pcs in general have from what I've seen. Nothing is discrete it's all built in on mac's MUCH moreso than pcs though (which SUCKS for repairs, it's costly cause to replace oh the gpu, you have to buy a whole new mobo. Mac's can get viruses, they can lock up I've seen it, and by god the reason they are so quiet is cause they are hot as hell inside. Those cpus get really hot in the macbook pros. I've seen at least 2 failures jsut cause the fan didn't decide to turn on to high mode and (god forbid) annoy anyone until the thing started browning :P . Well not quite that far, but the temps reached 88C for the cpu and near 45 for the hd before it kicked into high gear. The laptop I have never gets that high in temperatures. Plus the intel arctitechture throttles anyways at those temps so then its not only hot but a lot slower than usual (that is intel's design and doing and it's true for macs, pcs, anything with a cpu from intel these days). That for a 'quiet' laptop, pfff. Mine's quiet and it uses some decent heat pipes, but it doesn't wait forever to blast some air through.
I don't doubt for a sec that those temps would cause higher rates of failure, to me mac is a strict brand name with their own os and mobos which aren't that different (save from the fact that macs have no actual bios as far as I can tell but use some kind of exception on startup), and to buy a brand name as opposed to quality manufacturing in my opinion is kinda dumb.

And unlike macs we can actually game and have MUCH more control over the hardware aspects of the computer. Sorry, but I've been to the 'mac' world and I'm never going there again. If it had been more popular in the beginning it would've been the one to have games designed for it, new hardware aspects, and new viruses designed to infect its kernel. they are not immune, most people use pcs which is why viruses are written for them. It wouldn't make sense to make a virus based on an os few people have dealt with and with a pile of users smaller than pcs. Just wait till macs are used in corperations and by the public moreso than pcs, they will get more viruses. I don't know of many viruses for solaris os, same dealyoh, why do it if theres no payback?


I dislike macs. Pcs kick ass. Damn straights.

[MarioJP]

OS11 said:

yes, but actually Ford uses PowerPC in every car and truck so they have the xbox beat by a wide margin. also too, xbox is a single use device selling for a fraction of what a mac sold for, so comparisons aren't very meaningful.




yes, dell sells more, but most of what they sell aren't pcs. they are factory terminals, typewritters, cash registers, etc. if it doesn't have personal data on it, it's not considered a pc.













well, when you look at the facts, dells are priced the same or a bit higher than macs. go configured a Mac mini, iMac, MacBook, MacBook Pro and prices are roughly the same. when you get to the high end macpros, dell doesn't sell that fast of machine for any price.













what you are talking about are the bare bones systems that apple doesn't sell into, so yes, dell sells more machines, but they are of lower quality too. kinda like Ford and Honda.













keyboards don't light up on PC laptops, Macs do. Mac laptops have magnetic pull away power cords, PCs don't, Macs have multi-touch trackpads, PCs don't, Macs hold their value 40% longer than PCs, battery life on Macs is around 35% longer. Macs work with sleep / wake, PCs usually don't, Macs run more software than PCs, OSX is more consistent and crashes far less. All Macs come with 802.11n and Bluetooth... on most pcs that's an option, Macs run silently, most PCs are noisy. Macs don't have spam on their hard drives, they don't get viruses, don't require anti-virus software... they work better on the web since OSX is what created and www... There are many, many more but you get the idea PCs are a bad value.

and this is suppose to convince me???. all of those are just minor things that makes apple different. I could careless about the multi touch and battery life. And my pc is built with quality. Laptops have more horspower than any macbook pro and get this MUCH CHEAPER. I don't care about the efficiency if the performance is comprimised. Sorry but i pass. All of this things you can live without. Too bad multi touch isn't good enough for gaming that u have to use a gaming mouse for that with "right click" and dont get me started with the ipod shuffle with the "athentication chip" that will authorize apple only headphones???. That is soo low from apple

[OS11]

incorrect, currently the MacBook Pros are the fastest, most feature rich laptops you can buy for the price. you are thinking of a poor quality DeLL that weighs 1.4 pounds more, is still running windows and gets poor battery life. MacBooks have the fastest gaming performance for the price and obviously the best screens.
there is no "authorization chip" on the new shuffle, so it's clear you don't do research so no wonder everyone laughs at your comments. 3rd parties can make headphones for the shuffle, they just need to work properly, nothing wrong with that, apple isn't stopping anyone from making them, so quit complaining about something you know nothing about.
someday you will get a Mac, so don't worry!

[MarioJP]

OS11 wrote:incorrect, currently the MacBook Pros are the fastest, most feature rich laptops you can buy for the price. you are thinking of a poor quality DeLL that weighs 1.4 pounds more, is still running windows and gets poor battery life. MacBooks have the fastest gaming performance for the price and obviously the best screens.
there is no "authorization chip" on the new shuffle, so it's clear you don't do research so no wonder everyone laughs at your comments. 3rd parties can make headphones for the shuffle, they just need to work properly, nothing wrong with that, apple isn't stopping anyone from making them, so quit complaining about something you know nothing about.
someday you will get a Mac, so don't worry!
ummm know nothing about ??? lets get into fact shall we?


www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2034940032%201039337214&name=Intel%20Core%202%20Quad







i beg to differ. Dont you worry i definitely be picking one of these up very soon and not someday. ooo and its a quad core laptop.and you say macs are the fastest?? hmmm i find it hard to believe that theory. macs are efficient but definitely not the top performer. Efficiency and performance don't mix. Thought we learned that already.



and also engadget has confirm the ipod shuffle headphone licensing fees by adding a "athentication chip"



[http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/16/apple-confirms-presence-of-proprietary-chip-in-shuffle-headphone/5#comments]

[OS11]

it's rare to have a failure on a mac, but if it does happen, they are easier to work on since they are fully engineered, not a box of mismatched parts. mobos can be repaired, no need to replace them, but when is the last time you ever saw a mac mobo fail? 5 years? 10? yes, macbook pros get warm, but they don't cause hw failures.

most all of the popular games are on the mac so it really doesn't matter, ironically macs in the early days had far better games than pcs since they had and still have better graphics... programs like dark castle, marathon, myst, halo all started on macs, but since apple didn't want macs to be seen as kiddy toys, apple slowed development. today, macs run more games than pcs so it's the best of all worlds.

and no, there has never been a virus on a mac running osx. there
were about 62 for the Classic MacOS, but in the last 8 years there hasn't been a
single one on macs. the top hacker minds have tried and tried but since macs are based on bsd unix there is technically no way for them to spread from machine to machine. macs are in 80% of large businesses so it's not that there are 50,000,000 to target, the reason is it's impossible to get into one unless you have full physical access. windows was never designed to be on networks, but unix was from the beginning... couple that with microsoft's poor programming ability and you get the mess windows has become.

when you get a little older you'll have macs, but if you are still playing games, macs are too advanced for your needs right now.

[MarioJP]

OS11 said:

it's rare to have a failure on a mac, but if it does happen, they are easier to work on since they are fully engineered, not a box of mismatched parts. mobos can be repaired, no need to replace them, but when is the last time you ever saw a mac mobo fail? 5 years? 10? yes, macbook pros get warm, but they don't cause hw failures.

most all of the popular games are on the mac so it really doesn't matter, ironically macs in the early days had far better games than pcs since they had and still have better graphics... programs like dark castle, marathon, myst, halo all started on macs, but since apple didn't want macs to be seen as kiddy toys, apple slowed development. today, macs run more games than pcs so it's the best of all worlds.

and no, there has never been a virus on a mac running osx. there
were about 62 for the Classic MacOS, but in the last 8 years there hasn't been a
single one on macs. the top hacker minds have tried and tried but since macs are based on bsd unix there is technically no way for them to spread from machine to machine. macs are in 80% of large businesses so it's not that there are 50,000,000 to target, the reason is it's impossible to get into one unless you have full physical access. windows was never designed to be on networks, but unix was from the beginning... couple that with microsoft's poor programming ability and you get the mess windows has become.






when you get a little older you'll have macs, but if you are still playing games, macs are too advanced for your needs right now.

ooo save me now i am suffering using windows "sarcasm off" Rarely fails well that maybe true but tell that to some individual when the nvidia gpu's went bad due to a faulty logic chip??. don't know if u notice this but apple is technically a pc. Apple only builds the frame the rest is off the shelve components. ram hard drive nividia mobile gpu intel cor 2 duo nothing special there. oh wait thats right it cost more only for what to run mac osx. Oh please if i was that desperate i would rather run linux instead lol. The remaining left of apple is the battery and the aluminum case. Oh wait don't forget to add the apple cherry on top there now its a apple computer laptop or desktop. with that said lets hope those batteries dont explode like the ipod touch did. Though i do admit that story was a bit overboard but that was crazy to have a ipod touch to just pop and just catch on fire. Least on my blackberry i be able to remove the battery quickly lol.
Message was edited by: MarioJP

[OS11]

yes, but your link still shows a slower overall laptop than apple's 17" macbook pro...

http://www.apple.com...kpro/specs.html

and it's not an authorization chip, it's just a controller for the buttons and you only have to apply for a license to use it in your product if you want the "Designed for iPod" sticker on your product, if you don't want that on your product, you can make headphones for the unit as normal, there is no encryption involved.

please do research before you post, thanks.

[MarioJP]

OS11 said:

yes, but your link still shows a slower overall laptop than apple's 17" macbook pro...

www.apple.com/macbookpro/specs.html

and it's not an authorization chip, it's just a controller for the buttons and you only have to apply for a license to use it in your product if you want the "Designed for iPod" sticker on your product, if you don't want that on your product, you can make headphones for the unit as normal, there is no encryption involved.

please do research before you post, thanks.

not when apps are multi thread and these days its not about speed its about more cores. This is just the first wave of quad core laptops and its not 17 inch its 18.4 inch lol. Though that is kind of too large but hey progress is good. Give it some time and these quad cores will get faster and faster. Sides you can probably oc the core just a bit maybe to 2.4ghz without creating too much heat. Right now they just want to get the quad core laptops out and focus on increasing the speed later. Overall it is still cheaper.


But manufactures have to pay a license fees just to have that sticker that it will work. Sure apple is not stopping them to make third party headphones just as long as you flash your credit card or couple of 100 bills at apple. Apple is very good at that. Come to think of it since when headphone ever had a problem with defect. Sony headphones are the best in quality and no need no stinking QA fee to know that it is good quality.

[OS11]

incorrect, apple builds the entire unit except for ram, hd and optical drive, but the rest... logicboard, software, case, custom ICs, batteries, keyboard, etc are all apple engineered. sure apple uses custom chips by intel & nvida, etc, but only apple still engineers their mobos.

yes, macs are pcs, nobody disputes that... but they are the high end of the market so keep that in mind... sure, you pay a little bit more up front, but you get the use of a better machine, plus you get far more back when you resell, so people good with money always buy macs.

and no ipod touch exploded, one just got very warm and a mother complained. sounds like the kid did something to it, so it's a non-story. it never caught fire, so quit making stuff up.