[quackadilly]

Seriously I don't think that Apple has any "special" motherboards....as stated in another thread.

[TechieXP]

But that's your opinion. I agree that products are marketed to certain people. But it doesn't mean they will be the only buyers. Kook what Tomy Hilfiger said...Need i say more? Mercedes is marketed to people such as yourself...big business men who make large salaries...but that doesn't mean others can't buy them. I can fine plenty of people in my neck of teh woods here in Chicago..who I know don't have a full time job that probbaly have a bigger Mercedes than you do. The market is taylored to the majority buyer...but there are niche buyers as well. And that is where Macs fit in. I posted here and I sure you saw....a Benz fitted with all that expensive AMG addons costing close to $80K beat out a Dodge Ram STT-10 by on 5mph and 1 full second. Yet teh car weighting 1/2 as much and costing almost duuble only had a slight advantage. And they are both in a totally different class...however they are marketed to similar people...CAR ENTHUSIASTS. Just because I don't drive what you drive doesn't mean I can't compete against you. And if thet SRT-10 had been the odel that has the stick...that Benz would have lost...Its power per weight distribution...

My laptop at 11lbs...has heavier weight and it is also going to perform better than that Mac...Period...In fact If I could increase the FSBm I could cive a Mac Pro a run for its money...again it isn't in the same class...but yet they still have similarities. Anything that is similar can be compared...Look at teh Hyundai commercials. It is certainly a less expensive car...yet they are pitting it against cars like Lexus, Acura and Nissan...the Hyundai in a totally different class and cost thousands less...has better gas mileage, has a classy design...and got 5 stars in crash tests where those cars may ahve gotten only 4 stars...just because you pay more doesn't make it better, and just because it is classed higher doesn't make it better either...that is simply how marketing works. It makes idiots out of smart people.

Again I am not saying you are wrong...because you are not...but you not exactly right either. You just look @ things one way and I see reality. Apple's marketing is targeting that there computers are solid and better than any Windows based PC....that is fudge advertsing...they charge you more for the same stuff. In the case of the laptops...based on premium models like the ThinkPad...I agree with you that the TP is better..but not in everything...however that doesn't mean the same hardware that has a plastic cover is any worse...its simply marketing hype...and you bought into it...i didn't. You simply made a choice based on what you like. Cars in different classes get copared all the time. A condo and a home aren't exactly the same, but they do get compared. To e a condo is dumb because for its cost you can get 2 houses...rent out one and have the other for yourself...I don't find it smart to pay $250k for an apartment...no matter what they call it...that is what it is...its a hose up high...and its small...a home costing $250K will ahve more space then those tiny boxes on the 30 floor. But to each its own. I think its a waste of money when you can certain have something better...and with you own home you can be as loud as you wanna be..party likes its 1999 and no one can say anything...try that in a condo...To me condo living is like living with your parents....and that is how I feel about Macs in some regards.

For everyday people who do simply tasks...Macs are ore than what people need. That doesn't mean they can buy one. In fact it can last them longer buying more then they need...however are they really buying more? Or is it teh same stuff in a fancy box. The latter is more true. x86 is x86 no matter what logo you slap on it. x86 hardware isn't expensive PERIOD. Apple charges double when compared to standard computers that have teh exact same hardware. And yes the software, and consmetic things do add benefits...in the laptops the cost osn't as bad compared to premium offerings from other brands...but for desktops that a whole new ballgame...a Mac a $3000 is for a power user or a business...even enthusiast shy away because upgrading is sparce...which eans that $3000 doesn't go far...Buy the time I spend $3000 worth of hardware on my present system...it will take me 15 years to reach that...and yet I will always have the latest...and I am certainly not going to pick on Apple on that they are not alone...ALL BRANDS fall into that category...however they are more forgiving...with Macs upgrading to new hardware means buying a whole new system...why with Windows PC I have teh option to buy faster better parts as cost drop. However my presnt system was just upgraded with the lastest hardware...for $260....on top of the original cost I soent to build this system @ $900...its been 3 years..and I have a system that is equal to a Mac in one way..and better in others...but certainly not less...except cost.

But hey you make valid point many tie and I hear you talking..and I agree on many levels...you are a lawyer and that makes you a oerson who is smart and can make decisions. And we are all capable of thinking for ourselves...i am not influenced by media hype...I learned the hard way that advertsing is not more than smoke an mirors and if you buy into it...it will cost you in the long run..that is why our economy is in the tank...so many so-called smarted people who got ropped into a major skeam by smarter people....now we all have to suffer...Smart people is what has this world so messed up...

[VHMP01]

?Some baseless conjecture?? coming out of Stanford University you know!

THE OS-X LINUX CONNECTION:

http://ccrma.stanfor...ccrma/OS_X.html

?Mac OS X nowadays is based on Darwin and chunks of existing open source software from a large number of sources like BSD, GNU, Mach, ... AND EVEN LINUX??

http://www.stanford.edu

[WinTard]

I would think Stanford University has some credibility...?

Those interested in finding out more about the reality of Unix may Google: Results 1 - 10 of about 49,000 for chronology of unix. (0.24 seconds) and see this interesting website: Unix History

Unix? Which Unix?

>
[/quote]
Message was edited by: smax013

[TechieXP]

Yes thats true...but it depends.
Sure you can dig up older hardware and use Windows 7...but much of that hardware won't be supported especially if it is legacy based. Soe of those old system use Creative Soundblaster. Those old cards are not supported under Vista/7. Many old ATI and Voodoo graphics solutions won't work either. Many older network devices and modems won't work either. I was actually supprised that Windows 7 still install drivers for the Intel 440 chipset from the 90's.

[TechieXP]

Wow I didn't know Samsung made cars. I looked that SM7...that baby is sharp. I'd even say it looks better than its American sibling. Even Ford cars in Europe look better than the American versions. Someone told me that here in Amercian we have to change the cars so much because teh focus has to be ore on saftey vs style...and making a car safer to drive cost more than making it look pretty. Ford's latest new platform that they will be using for the next Taurus looks better for teh first time than its European sibling. That is teh car I was waiting for...now I have to wait until next year to make sure I still have a job.

[TechieXP]

lol thats funny.

So whether you believe in creation or eveolution one that is a fact there was a process of development where human can be tied to a single set of parents that started us all. So whether you are born in Africa, Asia or Europe..the fact is no matter how prejudice people are...we are still all related. As for OSX it isn't Linux by default...but it does share many of its DNA...so they are related...just because they glossed over it doesn't change what it is. Its not directly Linux and I agree...But Iranians and Iragians still come from the same original family of middle-eastern people yet they hate each other...just like the Chinese and Japanese are the same people...

OSX not being a direct variant of Linux means it can be commercialized...but it does have Linux inside...just like Macs are benefitsing fro INTEL INSIDE :-)

[TechieXP]

So would it be safe to say even Windows has some Linux-like capabilitoes. Xenix was MSFT's version of Unix developed by Bell Labs (now AT&T) and out of all the avail Unix editions...Xenix was the 3rd best accepted. All version of Windows NT still have Unix componets you can install fro the CD so that Windows can be compatible and communicate with Unix and even POSIX...soooooo wouldn't that mean Windows is actually a SUPERSET of what Unix and Linux and OSX are yesterday and today?

MSFT isn't working with open-source stuff like most because they don;t have to support it. They already do in soe indirect ways. For MSFT to adopt open-source it means going backwards. OSX and Linux and opensource all have their own thing...but notice how extra hard they are working to acheive more Windows-like compatibility. Including but not limited too using virtualization to mimic the Windows UI and the use of SOME Windows only applications. To run ALL of them you simply need Windows. Except where needed for compatibility reason...I see no since in running Windows inside Linux or even OSX when you can simply buy a system that can support both. I agree using virtualization has alost dumped the need to dual boot. However you can't game very well in a VM is you're going beyond solitaire. It has come to a point where a VM is going to be able to directly use the hardware under teh host OS. That is why Windows 7 to use XP Mode you ahve to have a CPU that natively has VT. Bec VM will directly interface and use your actual Intel (not AMD) CPU in the VM. That line of VM and real is getting ever so then...and MSFT is pushing that limit just as fast as VMWare...And MSFT works with VMWare to insure they both are compatible even those they both offer a VM solution (MSFT bought theirs by buying Connectix VPC.)

I think the fact that all 3 platforms have and do similar things is really cool. However I still think Windows has an advantage for a newbie. Running softs like VirtualBox...MSFT VPC...or even VMware is a but easier to install an run versus doing similar in Linux which is a bit more complicated. Even OSX makes it a bit easier using Fusion and Parallels. The line is getting finer and finer where a difference is simply a matter of taste. and as you said...there really isn't an huge difference anymore...The argumant of which is better is no longer a point that can be proven beyond benefit of doubt...there are factual benefits and flaws on all platforms..and with all things being different by name only...the reality is they are not different. What is different is teh approach too similar concepts.

[TechieXP]

@Asisfish. Have something to ask you where you say I can't compare certain things and I want to hear your answer and see how it fits on the topic of the old debate.

When I was in grade school, we had a visit from a professor from a college. And he was talking about us preparing for our future and to think about what we wanted to be when we had all grown up. And one thing he mentioned was how trade jobs were the best options. After he left...the teacher asked could an electrican teach a plumber how to do his job? Out of a class of 40 studenst I was the only one to answer yes. Since I stuck out like a sore thumb my teacher asked me to explain my answer...btw the teachers answer was also no....I explained this...the reason an electrican can teach a plumber how to do his job is because on a certain level they both do the same job. All trade jobs require teh same basic math skills...as far as measring lengths, heights and depths...they also both require running some type of pipe....teh only difference if oe will carry water and other will carry wire. At the where they separate it is obvious he would then need a teacher of the trade itself....but ALL trade jobs have a few basic denominators.

So IMHO..even those laptops come in different groups based on how they are markets, they still shares many of the same least common denominators...which means all of them can be compared on some level. Since in your case weight and battery life are important to you...so I could easily say....why spend so much money on a MBP or a TP when you could have had a netbook which weight less than both and have much longer battery life. Then you can say...well the hardware isn't powerful enough to do much of the work I do...so thus you have a need for a much larger high performance laptop...however it still doesn't mean you have to have the most expensive ones...everything you say that you do you could easily do with a standard notebook costing less than $1000...you choose a more expensive brands in both cases...because the cosmetic diffrences matter ore to you. So thus your choice. But overall the MBP and the TP are certainly not the best notebook by definition of a notebook. By definition of a laptop or notbook...they all can be compared in some way...doesn't matter if they cost $300 or $3000...they all still ahve something in common. The different is simply power, size...and other cosmetic details. Of course you can say well based on prices ranges you can't compare all cars. but you can based on the same concept. All cars have something in common..and there are models that are more efficient, get better gas milage and are even faster and more luxury..without spending a whole lot of money.

A Mitsubishi Evo...doesn't cost $200k...yet it will burn most exotics from 0-60. A Dodge Neon SRT-4, burned a Mustang 5.0. A stock Viper, burn a fighter jet on the ground in a quarter mile. Those all are different and all are in a class...they can still be compared on some level...the level where things are similar. A class is similar a designation that can have a broad or specific meaning. Premium by definition means the best...however it doesn't mean it is true of everything that is considered premium. Gold is very precious...but it isn't the most precious metal. Diamonds may be a girls best friend...but there are other stones that are even more expensive. For you classy is Mercedes...for someone with more cash than you...maybe a Rolls Royce is more classy...for another a Lexus is...for another a Caddy is...for another they can be just as happy with a decked out Camry...classy could be as old as a Model T...because 'class' has a very broad meaning...portable by default would mean anything you can carry...so if I wanted to carry y desktop to work everyday...even though it weights 40lbs...its still portable...it simply isn't practical...but it can be done.

And I think if you look at computers that way...I think you will see that Macs are no different than any other computer in so many ways..and in the few ways they do differ doesn't means they are worth the cost...just because you are willing to pay for it.

Just like this: When I was house hunting...my honesr realestate person said...for every $100,000 in the cost of the home...i needed a salary of no less than $35K to afford it. Yet people who were making less then six figures signed for a home costing $300K on a Variable Rate...they didn't think about what happens if teh rate goes up...bec thye were so excited that they were told they could have teh home they simply signed teh dotted line. Did teh banks mislead them? NO. its not teh banks job to explain every detail...you have to read...now look where those people are...now they don't have a home...now they are going to find it hard to get any home at a good reate because there credit sayd they defaulted on a loan at $300K...but yet these people have degrees and swear they are smart just because they have money...not all doctors with Ph D can perform a surgery...i certainly dodn't want a dentist giving me open heart surgery...would you? But when it comes to this stuff here...there is no extremes...there is a low and a high and a medium...and they all have something in common.

Being faster can mean better...
Being more elegant can mean better
being made of plastic can be better
being made of aluminum can be better
costing more can be better...

but all of those even together doesn't always means it better...it just means it better for you or its better at soething unique. When it comes to computers...you certainly don't have to spend above $1000 to get a solid good performing computer...Apple makes you feel that is true...but it simply isn't. What make sit better is if what they provide does what you need better than another offering. Based on what you said..both can do what you need on equal terms...you perfer the Mac because you feel it has the better approach...and in you case that would be true and a fact...but that won't be true of everyone. And teh market proves that in many ways. If Apple really wanted more people to buy their computers...slamming MSFT in every commercial isn't going to drive people to teh Apple stores. if they want a bigger market they need to taylor the product to that market. When Apple said they couldn't make a computer that cost less then $500 that wasn't a piece of shit...shows how arrogant they can be. The fact is...several companys have already produced computers that cost less than $500 that aren't a POS...and even the Mac Mini at 599 isn't far off from those and it is not a POS. It shows they can...they just don't want too. As long as they keeps Macs at a niche..they will remain such...until they drop prices..or actually make some mid-range versions...the majority aren't goping to buy them no matter if they are better. And Apple doesn't really compete against MSFT...they share only 3 products now...a OS..a music player and phones...however MSFT doesn't have its own phone...buts it coming...and once it comes we will see if MSFT has learn anything over teh years and fro what happen to Zune. One thing about MSFT they do learn fast..and they learn if you can't beat them...you buy or partner with someone who can potentially get you there.

I bet if you take a list of all of all the companys that are MSFT partners vs any other company...the list may not be very log...but in that list are some very well known names...names that are considered teh cream of the crop...and they give MSFT preference above any other even if it is about money...can you say that about any other company in this industry? Yes...but on a much smaller scale. and on that level where all things being equal yet different...MSFT stands out as a better option in many respects.

[asiafish]

TechieXP said:

@Asisfish. Have something to ask you where you say I can't compare certain things and I want to hear your answer and see how it fits on the topic of the old debate.

When I was in grade school, we had a visit from a professor from a college. And he was talking about us preparing for our future and to think about what we wanted to be when we had all grown up. And one thing he mentioned was how trade jobs were the best options. After he left...the teacher asked could an electrican teach a plumber how to do his job? Out of a class of 40 studenst I was the only one to answer yes. Since I stuck out like a sore thumb my teacher asked me to explain my answer...btw the teachers answer was also no....I explained this...the reason an electrican can teach a plumber how to do his job is because on a certain level they both do the same job. All trade jobs require teh same basic math skills...as far as measring lengths, heights and depths...they also both require running some type of pipe....teh only difference if oe will carry water and other will carry wire. At the where they separate it is obvious he would then need a teacher of the trade itself....but ALL trade jobs have a few basic denominators.An electrician can learn plumbing, but chances are an experienced plumber will be a lot better at it than an electrician who took a lesson.
So IMHO..even those laptops come in different groups based on how they are markets, they still shares many of the same least common denominators...which means all of them can be compared on some level. Since in your case weight and battery life are important to you...so I could easily say....why spend so much money on a MBP or a TP when you could have had a netbook which weight less than both and have much longer battery life. Then you can say...well the hardware isn't powerful enough to do much of the work I do...so thus you have a need for a much larger high performance laptop...however it still doesn't mean you have to have the most expensive ones...everything you say that you do you could easily do with a standard notebook costing less than $1000...you choose a more expensive brands in both cases...because the cosmetic diffrences matter ore to you. So thus your choice. But overall the MBP and the TP are certainly not the best notebook by definition of a notebook. By definition of a laptop or notbook...they all can be compared in some way...doesn't matter if they cost $300 or $3000...they all still ahve something in common. The different is simply power, size...and other cosmetic details. Of course you can say well based on prices ranges you can't compare all cars. but you can based on the same concept. All cars have something in common..and there are models that are more efficient, get better gas milage and are even faster and more luxury..without spending a whole lot of money. Netbooks are mostly cheaply constructed, too small (notice I didn't buy a MacBook Air, ThinkPad X200 or other ultraportable) and are not adequate for entertainment tasks. It all I wanted was basic email, word processing and web browsing then I wouldn't have bought anything at all as my 6-year-old 12" PowerBook does a wonderful job at those tasks, has OS X Leopard's wonderful instant suspend/resume and is nice and small (and long since paid for). For someone else a netbook may be perfect. It is a much different class of product, which you just don't seem to understand. I have a BlackBerry 8830 world phone. When I bought it, I compared it to other smarthones that work on both GSM and CDMA and allow use in the United States, South Korea, Japan and Mexico, the countries I frequently visit. Should I have compared the Apple iPhone? No way, it doesn't work on CDMA, and CDMA is the network used in South Korea.
A Mitsubishi Evo...doesn't cost $200k...yet it will burn most exotics from 0-60. A Dodge Neon SRT-4, burned a Mustang 5.0. A stock Viper, burn a fighter jet on the ground in a quarter mile. Those all are different and all are in a class...they can still be compared on some level...the level where things are similar. A class is similar a designation that can have a broad or specific meaning. Premium by definition means the best...however it doesn't mean it is true of everything that is considered premium. Gold is very precious...but it isn't the most precious metal. Diamonds may be a girls best friend...but there are other stones that are even more expensive. For you classy is Mercedes...for someone with more cash than you...maybe a Rolls Royce is more classy...for another a Lexus is...for another a Caddy is...for another they can be just as happy with a decked out Camry...classy could be as old as a Model T...because 'class' has a very broad meaning...portable by default would mean anything you can carry...so if I wanted to carry y desktop to work everyday...even though it weights 40lbs...its still portable...it simply isn't practical...but it can be done. Who cares about fighter jets? The point is market position. Nobody looking at vipers or Corvettes considers an F-16 instead just as nobody consider a Rolls Royce cross-shops a Camry.

Laptops are also sold in classes, and compete with other modells in the same class or in nearbye classes. It is very possible that a frequent traveller would look at both an ultraportable and a thin-and-light, deciding whether he or she is willing to give up an optical drive for the lightest weight possible, or insists on a larger screen and is will to carry 5 lbs instead of 3. That buyer does not, however, walk down the aisle and buy an 11 lb gaming machine for his or her frequent travel any more than a farmer needing a strong pickup truck will trade his old one in on a new Honda S2000 sports car. Both the pickup and the S2000 are vehicles with four wheels, but they do not compete with one another in any way, shape or form.

Quote

And I think if you look at computers that way...I think you will see that Macs are no different than any other computer in so many ways..and in the few ways they do differ doesn't means they are worth the cost...just because you are willing to pay for it. I never said that Macs were different from other computers, but like all computers, they exist in their respective class and are cross-shopped (by buyers not insistent on Windows-only or Mac-only) against models in their class. The buyer looking at the ultraportable MacBook Air may look at the ThinkPad X200 or the Dell Adamo and pick one based on its respective advantages, disadvantages and simple preference, but that buyer is no more likely to look at an 11 lb Asus as he is to look at a 6 lb 17" MacBook Pro.

That's the easiest way to look at it. When a (Mac-only) buyer goes into the Apple Store to buy a laptop, he may have a tough time deciding between the more convenient size and lower price of the standard MacBook and the increased screen size and more powerful graphics of the 15" MacBook Pro. Likewise a pro customer may have something of an internal debate about whether she can tollerate the smaller screen on the 15" MacBook Pro when she really wants the 17", in the interest of increased portability.

When I bought mine, the choice was the high-end 13" MacBook and the low-end 15" MacBook Pro. The smaller model has many advantages besides price, but I went for the better graphics. I travel, so the 17" model never even entered into my thought process as it is simply too big. Likewise the MacBook Air never entered my thought process because I require more than 5 hours of battery life for my travel machine and need a massive hard drive in my daily-use machine (I upgraded it to 500 GB Seagate from Newegg the day I bought it).

Quote

Just like this: When I was house hunting...my honesr realestate person said...for every $100,000 in the cost of the home...i needed a salary of no less than $35K to afford it. Yet people who were making less then six figures signed for a home costing $300K on a Variable Rate...they didn't think about what happens if teh rate goes up...bec thye were so excited that they were told they could have teh home they simply signed teh dotted line. Did teh banks mislead them? NO. its not teh banks job to explain every detail...you have to read...now look where those people are...now they don't have a home...now they are going to find it hard to get any home at a good reate because there credit sayd they defaulted on a loan at $300K...but yet these people have degrees and swear they are smart just because they have money...not all doctors with Ph D can perform a surgery...i certainly dodn't want a dentist giving me open heart surgery...would you? But when it comes to this stuff here...there is no extremes...there is a low and a high and a medium...and they all have something in common.

Being faster can mean better...
Being more elegant can mean better
being made of plastic can be better
being made of aluminum can be better
costing more can be better...

but all of those even together doesn't always means it better...it just means it better for you or its better at soething unique. When it comes to computers...you certainly don't have to spend above $1000 to get a solid good performing computer...Apple makes you feel that is true...but it simply isn't. What make sit better is if what they provide does what you need better than another offering. Based on what you said..both can do what you need on equal terms...you perfer the Mac because you feel it has the better approach...and in you case that would be true and a fact...but that won't be true of everyone. And teh market proves that in many ways. If Apple really wanted more people to buy their computers...slamming MSFT in every commercial isn't going to drive people to teh Apple stores. if they want a bigger market they need to taylor the product to that market. When Apple said they couldn't make a computer that cost less then $500 that wasn't a piece of shit...shows how arrogant they can be. The fact is...several companys have already produced computers that cost less than $500 that aren't a POS...and even the Mac Mini at 599 isn't far off from those and it is not a POS. It shows they can...they just don't want too. As long as they keeps Macs at a niche..they will remain such...until they drop prices..or actually make some mid-range versions...the majority aren't goping to buy them no matter if they are better. And Apple doesn't really compete against MSFT...they share only 3 products now...a OS..a music player and phones...however MSFT doesn't have its own phone...buts it coming...and once it comes we will see if MSFT has learn anything over teh years and fro what happen to Zune. One thing about MSFT they do learn fast..and they learn if you can't beat them...you buy or partner with someone who can potentially get you there.Again, for the 30th time, when did I ever say that OS X or Mac was better than Windows or PC? NEVER. When did I ever slam MSFT? NEVER. When did I ever say that Apple was anything other than a company that wants to make as large a profit as possible? NEVER.
I bet if you take a list of all of all the companys that are MSFT partners vs any other company...the list may not be very log...but in that list are some very well known names...names that are considered teh cream of the crop...and they give MSFT preference above any other even if it is about money...can you say that about any other company in this industry? Yes...but on a much smaller scale. and on that level where all things being equal yet different...MSFT stands out as a better option in many respects.

MSFT is a better option in many respects, and Apple is in many others. You bash Apple at every opportunity. You make up facts with no basis in reality. You keep insisting that every product of a given type, ie; vehicles or laptops, is comparable to any other. A fighter jet does not and never will compete with a car and is in no way comparable to a car, any more than an 11 lb gaming luggable will be considered by anyone shopping for a 3 lb ultraportable.





When you go out for desert, do you compare chocolate ice cream and vanila ice cream, or ponder between apple pie and pizza pie.
Message was edited by: smax013

[WinTard]

Great post TechieXP! Well thought through, and covers most if not all the bases IMHO. Thank you.

There is NO best, only different. And that's how it should be. It would be boring if there were only One best color, one best fruit, one best car, one best company...

Individuality an originality would not exist. Then we would be all the same. Assimilated clones, like the Borg. I couldn't stand it!

I seek:
La piece de resistance s?il vous-plait!

~~~~~~~~~~~
Variety is the spice of life!

[TechieXP]

I'm not an over-clocker yet...but as I think back, the fist motherboard I ever bought which I bought because I wanted dual processors was from Tyan. After that I purchase an Asus P2B series board and built a pc for a friend...best board I ever bought. So I stuck with it siply because I knew no others even tho I seen them. I purchased the board simply on looks. Everything was color coded and I understood the directions a bit better. After that I purchase the P4P800 Deluxe and built that up for a family member...to this say she still as it and it has been rock solid. We started off with the P4 1.8 w/HT...and now she has a 3.0 w/HT...And I have the P5K Deluxe Wifi which I purchase because I wanted a board with its iwn wifi so I can host LAN parties. It is awesome...easy to configure...is native up to 1066 and I can OC as high as 2000mhz...I read on Tom's Hardware someone successfully oc'd to 3.6 Ghz using the Q6600 which is what I have. It uses both 45/65n chips...dual/quad/extreme all in a single solution. dual nics and so much more..all for $200..thats value...3 years running...had only 2 minor BIOS issues...easily fixed by easy reflashing...I decide this is teh brand for me...with cost as low as they are and with the features they have...they surpass most boards made by Gigabyte...Foxconn and others. I won't switch unless i have too. though I am eyeing a board that uses x58...o'll wait until Windows 7 is released and see what teh next technology Intel may be cooking up. I personally skipped P4 for myself...as what I had was sufficient...Asus as you all said spells quality and great design at fair pricing.

[waldojim]

sadly all of my Asus boards have died... kinda why I stick with MSI or Evga these days. Each and every one of them are still kickin (with the exception being some Emachines OEM board....)

I run the Evga 750i FTW board atm with a C2Q9450, and since day one I have run it at 3.66Ghz(from 2.6), one hefty OC for air cooled... I also ran into a bios issue, but that was some nvidia chipset releated crap. (video problems) However, as with you, flashed bios and everything is good. I have no idea what the limits of the bus are... and if I ever get my phase change kit I keep debating over, I just might find out...

As to the Samsung SM7: WOW! that car is freaking sexy! now... how do I get one of those in Ohio?

[artzy65]

Anybody claiming they INVENTED something, are liars. They merely perfected and polished someone else's idea.

That has happened so often in history re inventions, like the steam engine which apparently James Watt 'invented' but in fact the basic idea sat around for 50 years until Watt came along and 'finished' it. And on The History Channel there was a recent series about inventions in ancient times that are really precursors of today's machines... including computers, really quite amazing.

'Bad artists copy. Great artists steal' ?Picasso

[Evildave]

Don't leave Microsoft out of your list of companies without original content.

If it wasn't bought out, stolen, or driven out of business, Microsoft wasn't interested.

[VHMP01]

Yeah and if it wasn?t all marketing lies, and just selling the cases from a hardware company with inner components from others. Plus an OS based on what others have developed even for free. Apple isn?t interested either.

[TechieXP]

Oh and in answer to your other comment? I never said MSFT has never stolen anybodys IP.
But its not like Apple has a clen track record either. They stole the work PARC did...which is why Xerox sued them...but Xerox lost. And then the nerve of Apple to try to sue MSFT for teh same thing...and Apple lost.

Iphone's idea was stolen at one of the electronic shows. The LG Prada is the phone Iphone is based off of. And right now another company is suing Apple for stealing the touch interface. And those are just teh things we know about.

As Jim Rome says "if you're not cheating then you're not trying, and its only cheating if you get caught'. Now sub out cheating for stealing. EVERYONE STEALS. Question is...how to do it and do it legally. Thats why no other touch screen phne should be compared to iphone...bec that interface belongs to its original owner...and in order to have it...you have to license it. Instead companies don't want to share the concept so they develop there own. I have no problem with that.

And Apple like MSFT did't even develop most of its own software. The nerve of Steve Jobs to says, MSFT doesn't have taste..and they don't have their own interllectual ideas? The software that Apple has like Iworks and etc...were designed by another company. Apple siply bought and stamped their name on it. Apple's laptops also share borrowed ideas that have already been done. Apple wasn't teh first to have an aluminum laptop...or one with backlit keys...its already been done. I praise the for having the ability to take ideas and improve on them...thats call innovations...but there hasn't been a new idea in ages...its simply enhanced versions of another persons idea.

Name something MSFT invented...nothing...name something Apple invented...nothing...how about Linus Trevalds or however you spell his name...nothing...they simply innvtae other ideas which is good no metter who does it...as long as what you have was either bought..or given to you...or you hired the guy with the idea...

As far as MSFT...with this present lawsuit...i siply don't get it. If a person comes to you with an idea and you briush them off..why try to use it later. Assuming the guy proved beyond a shadow of doubt they stole it. I know some judges who have it in for MSFT and will simply bash them even when they are not guilty. We will see what happens on an appeal.

[artzy65]

I know... Apple does this shit too. They're all crooks... if you look at Canadian news you'll see one of our recent Prime Ministers, Brian Mulroney, is still in deep do-do for taking bribes years ago and is back in court.

String the bastards up, I say... hang 'em high!

[smax013]

Please keep the posts civil and on topic. Please refrain from personal attacks.

[NYSkater]

Yes, Steve Ballmer is right. Your obbservation is also correct, though I'm no quite convinced that automobile analogies pertain to consumer comptuer use.

Your question/observatioin, as is true of many people's questions here, is irrelevant. Had you invested in Apple when Steve Jobs returned in 1997 and held your stock, you'd now realize a 1,000% return on your investment, making even Warren Buffet blush. Everyone was laughing at buy-and-hold Apple investors at that time.

And the popular but ill-inceived theory is as follows: Bill Gates saved Apple by inesting $150,000 in Apple at that time. No, he didn't. Apple's lawsuit at that time was that Microsoft stole Apple's intellectual property by copyine virtually Apple's entire OS to Windows. Apple, as currentlyu constitued, was in no postion to fight this in the courts, despite the popular widom at that time that they were right. Going against Microft at that time, they simply didn't have the money to beat them. Microsoft knew this. In a face-saving maneuver, they offered Apple $150,000 in cash, and the promise to continue to develop Office for the Mac for a more or less indeterminate period of time -- Microsoft's biggest Apple money-maker at the time.



Let's move forward to the present. There's a reason why the stock is doing so well. Wanna hear it, or do you want to continue to be rigid, argumentative, and defensive? Apple's products appeal to many people. If not, how did they nearly overtake the smart phone industry in less than a year?



How did they overtake the MP3-player market in less than a year?



Why is it they they are making a fortune on desktops and laptops in an environment in which people like you plead that their products are overpriced?



How do they manage to maintain their outrageous margins in a worldwide economic downturn? Is everyone universally uninformed when it comes to technology? If so, then you need to include yourself in the group of uninformed people, if only because none of us is either immune to or exempt from ignorance.



I don't care what OS you're married to. I don't care who stole from whom in terms of "features" and "look and feel" on any OS. What I do care about is reality. And the current reality tells me that Microsoft is losing customers because it historically and factually continues to disappoint in terms of what it promises and what it delivers. The fact that their customers are apparently willing to accept this changes nothing.



Microsoft's CEO acknowledged several tims that Vista was not even close to being up to snuff, and that thousands of people migrated to the Mac OS because of Vista's abysmal failure. Yet people like you continue to deny this.



Like it or not, Apple does not have that history, at least in terms of recent history. And recent history is what people remember best. People such as you need to get a grip on reality. Microsoft is no longer -- and for some time has not been -- a winner in terms of investment or usability for consumers. Microsoft's greatest strength is in enterprise software, yet they continue to fail with everyday consumers. Just look at the stock movement for the past five years. It stinks. There's no way around this. I don't care what spin you put on this; facts are facts.