[TechieXP]

yes I have flown coach...I guess it just depends on where you are going and where you're sitting. The laptop can still fit on the lil table behind the seat. I haven't flown since I've gotten this laptop, but I do have 17 inch Dell that is just fine.

Again weight is a problem for you...and that Macbook is not and ultra portable...the Air is. That Macbook you have only weight about a pound less than an average laptop. Its my choice and I am happy with it...no matter how much you bash it...it offers way more than what you have at the same price margin. And it gets more than 90 mins...the cpu's are usually running at 1/2 speed and I don't tax the GPU's yet...I have gotten 4 hours on a full charge...the Mac only gets 5 based on having everything at 1/2 power. Unlike some people I know how to go into teh BIOS and turn off things I don't need to conserve battery..and since I have the laptop hooked to larger displays...I don't use the builtin one very often...again increasing battery life. As you did...you made a choice that fits what you need...and I am not bashing your choice.

[asiafish]

Evildave said:

Microsoft was at least 'good' about the Ring Of Death. When it happened, I emailed tech support, they shipped me a box with a prepaid label, then shipped the thing back a couple of weeks later in serviceable condition. It was out of warranty, but it didn't matter. If they hadn't handled it as they did, I'd have just cashed out my XBOX games and got a PS3. As a couple of million other XBOX customers would have.

If you can only use the portable machine on a desk, it's not really portable anymore. Just luggable.

So if you can't use it until you're at a desk, with a power outlet, why not just lug something a little bigger (larger, more comfortable display, real keyboard/mouse), and a little better, and quite a bit cheaper for the road trips? And when it comes time to demo, having it demoed on something 'pretty' makes a difference. Always.

Or why not get a machine that is 50% smaller, 50% lighter, 90% as powerful and runs 366% longer on its batteries, has a good keyboard with the identical layout of the brand's desktop model without a scrunching in numberpad for the same price? There are plenty of such machines out there, the MacBook Pro being only one aimed at those who like OS X. ThinkPad W500 is another aimed at Windows users, and there are plenty more from other premium venders that cost the same or less than that monster Asus.

[rgreen4]

asiafish said:

Dell and HP are already offering crapware-free PCs in the business line, while Apple always has and Lenovo is somewhere in the middle, with crapware installers on the desktop and splash screen intros to entice you, but the programs not actually installed.

I have never seen crapware on a business class machine from either Dell or HP. I have a 5 year old HP business class desktop with XP Pro, and when I first set it up the only icon on the desktop was the trash can. While we all rail and complain about the crapware, it does enable them to lower the price on the lower end machines a bit, for they get paid by the purveyors of the crapware.

[asiafish]

TechieXP said:

yes I have flown coach...I guess it just depends on where you are going and where you're sitting. The laptop can still fit on the lil table behind the seat. I haven't flown since I've gotten this laptop, but I do have 17 inch Dell that is just fine.

Obviously not if you think a 17" laptop fits fine. Is the front edge of the palmrest jammed into yourgut? Is the screen open enough to actually see it? Does the bottom of the laptop sit flat on the tray table? What happens when the person in front of you reclines the seat?

Quote

Again weight is a problem for you...and that Macbook is not and ultra portable...the Air is. That Macbook you have only weight about a pound less than an average laptop. Its my choice and I am happy with it...no matter how much you bash it...it offers way more than what you have at the same price margin. And it gets more than 90 mins...the cpu's are usually running at 1/2 speed and I don't tax the GPU's yet...I have gotten 4 hours on a full charge...the Mac only gets 5 based on having everything at 1/2 power. Unlike some people I know how to go into teh BIOS and turn off things I don't need to conserve battery..and since I have the laptop hooked to larger displays...I don't use the builtin one very often...again increasing battery life. As you did...you made a choice that fits what you need...and I am not bashing your choice.

Yup, the MacBook Air is an ultraportable designed for the frequent traveller, and in that role it and other ultraportables are by far the best option.

4 hours ona W90? Only when plugged in, and who cares about battery life when tethered to an external display?

By the way, as I've said many times, my MacBook Pro is not my travel machine. Why? Too bulky and not enough battery lfe. That is why I bought a 14" ThinkPad insted of the 15" model, more compact and longer runtime. I almost bought the 12" which is far better in both regards, and only passed because I still wanted discreet graphics.

Its all a balance. The point is, you don't see that. You see the advantages of a large luggable machine, and there are many, but you ignore the disadvantages and dismiss them as insignificant. Big, luggable machines have just as many, if not more disadvantages than advantages, and they are very and very much reduce their utility in anything other than a desk environment. If you just move it from one desk to another its fine, for any more travel requirements or to actually use on the go, there are far better alternatives often for far less money.

[asiafish]

[quote name='rgreen4']
>

asiafish said:

Dell and HP are already offering crapware-free PCs in the business line, while Apple always has and Lenovo is somewhere in the middle, with crapware installers on the desktop and splash screen intros to entice you, but the programs not actually installed.



I have never seen crapware on a business class machine from either Dell or HP. I have a 5 year old HP business class desktop with XP Pro, and when I first set it up the only icon on the desktop was the trash can. While we all rail and complain about the crapware, it does enable them to lower the price on the lower end machines a bit, for they get paid by the purveyors of the crapware.

They should all use the same solution as Lenovo then, a splash screen introduction to the PC with "offers" to install the crapware and a large, colorful advertisement telling you why you should. Very easy if you actually want the software, pretty ads look better than warnings telling your virus definitions are out of date and no performance or stability issues for those who reject the offer and only have to watch a slideshow one time. Software company still pays for the exposure, user gets a clean and fast PC. Seems like the best of all worlds.

[WinTard]

The Dell Latitude business line of laptops (our corporate standard) doesn't come with any crapware...

[asiafish]

WinTard said:

The Dell Latitude business line of laptops (our corporate standard) doesn't come with any crapware...

Of course not, corporate buyers wouldn't tollerate it.

[TechieXP]

Yea I don't do that kind of heavey stuff...however I do web design and I usually have several programs open at one time...usually close to 8 or so. Photoshop, Illustrator and Golive are always open...along with Dreamweaver and Flash...along with Word and Outlook...and Paintshop Pro...in addition to having a few browser windows open to differet pages I may be working on...And I run Apache right on the laptop to test things before I upload...I also run MySQL on the laptop...So I am usually doing memory intensive stuff...and I needed the ability to hook 2 large screens....one screen I use is my HDTV @ 42"...I use that for having several windows open at a time and y other screen is a 22" Dell...

I have 2 people that work for me...my girlfriend and her sister....and they are paid employee. My girlfriend is using my other Asus which looks more like a gaming laptop and her sister is using my desktop that I built. They work on the easy stuff...usually built ecommerce sites using Joomla and Virtuemart. They 2 are using 2 screens but aren't using the stuff I use...however my gf does do some php coding...

I simply bought what I needed. The Macbook Pro can do what I do just fine providing you want to spend $1200 to drop in 8GB of ram...that isn't worth it...

What I was comparing was teh specs. I was siply saying...if you pay $2500 for a laptop it should have the best specs in that range...The cpu in the acbook I guess is ok...as long as it is a 2.4 or better that is fine. But teh Mac uses ixed video cards which I don't like, while mines match..and thay are almost 2x's as fast.

The reason you spend extra money on any computer is to get more performance...not to look pretty. When businesses buy expensive laptops it is for performance...not just to look good. The idea should be perfirmance first...the looks second. In my case since my laptop isn't going to be mobile often...looks were not that important. However the last Asus I bought has some red details that ake it look ore like a gaming laptop. This time I wanted something that didn't look gamy. And this one doesm't. And it looks good. Does it look like a Mac? NO. And I wasn't looking to get one that looks like one either. The Air is not even close to being in the same ballfield. Its sole purpose to e is looks...certainly not perfromance. Sure it is the faster of teh laptops in its class...but looks is what it is all about. The Dell Adamo and the ThinkPad x300 I think is what Asisfish says are laptops in the same category are better options. PERIOD. The only reason I didn't get a ThinkPad is because i could get a bigger screen. This laptop has the biggest one I could find in this price range and with these specs. HP has one with a 20 inch screen...but not with this much power...quadcore in a laptop is just unbeatable. Also the laptop is not as thin because of fans And I think some of teh weight is just ballist for the screen. And anyway I don't care.I bought it for a reason. MY reason...not HIS reason. He bought a Mac to show off in a court room...Even in a court I would still have a nice laptop...I am not trying to impress a judge who may go in my favor bec he/she likes my computer. If my work is not impressive enough for you...then siply sucks for you. I don't need to earn browning points.

If teh clock speed of the CPU was faster...like 2.66 or better...I bet I could give a Mac Pro desktop a run for its money too..and they are not in the same class. Yet is cost less and is almost as fast. It it was possible...$500 ore dollars would surely get me a faster quadcore...probably at 3.0...making the laptop as fast as the Mac...

Every brand has at least 1 desktop replacement. And it is still portable. I never said it was practical to carry eceryday...but i can do it and it wouldn't bother me.

[TechieXP]

Repetition about a fact is a fact. Whether you accept it or not doesn't matter. Battery life isn't important for a laptop that will be plugged in 99% of teh time. Weight doesn't matter for a laptop that will rarely be moved. I have light laptop that is more portable. Its a Dell at 6 lbs...I did not buy the Asus to be portable...that is why it is a desktop replacement. However again I agreed that was you said was true...in YOUR case...not mine.

However whether its a desktop replacement of not this is a fact. If you pay $2500 for a laptop...I don't care who makes it...the hardware specs should be high. None of teh Macbooks have high specs based on the retail price and its basic configuration without changing the hardware. The hardware inside ALL Macbook is comparable to what is found in a mid-range laptop sold by Dell, HP and others for around $1000 or less. THAT IS A FACT. Of course if you choose a PREMIUM LOOKING laptop those cost more...like Toshiba, or Sony and even Lenovo. What you are paying for is simple. You are paying for teh fancy case. Most id-ranged laptops weigh in at 5 to 8 pounds. screen size is usually what chagnes the weight most. However sme MFR's put some ballist in the bottom of teh case to balance the screens weight...it doesn't mean the hardware inside weights that much.

I needed a box with fancier hardware...not a fancy look. Software aside I am taking about the hardware. The only true difference bewteen a Mac and any other laptop other than cost if the pretty box and the OS. That is a fact. That isn't FUD...it isn't bashing...it is simply the truth. As far as the physical system, acs don't offer any performance benefit over any other brand. What they do offer is a pretty nice looking one and a very nice operating system to go with that look. And that is fine if that is how you want to shop. When it comes to laptops...since teh hardware has limited upgradability, buying the fastest one you can afford is a better option then buying a pretty one. Except in your case where you make 6 figures per year and can afford to buy whenever you want too...I don't have that luxury and even if I did...I wouldn't spend money wastefully just because I have it.

It does matter about the category...no matter how you break doen the family tree...they are all laptops and they are all portable...that is a fact. The main geology broken down is simply to make a category for easy shopping...netbook would be expected to be smaller then a typical laptop using less fancy materials and the hardware inside isn't for flat out perfromance. Ultra-portable that means it is very then...Macbook don't qualify as such..Only the Air, the Adamo and TP X300 I think you said...fair enough...then you have those that fall in the 14 and 15 inch models which are usually mid-ranged as far as cost and hardware. They have mid-level specs...usuaing the cpu is in the uper 1.6ghz to 2.4ghz range...right where the Macs sit...and a premium spec'd laptop are usually 2.66 or better...quadcore is certainly premium as far as specs go...mid-ranged system usually have GPU that are as high as 256MB per card...right where Macs sit. While premium laptops have 256 as a minimium but 512MB would certainly be premium...ram...most mid-ranged system have 2-4GB..right where Macs sit...while premium pc's have 6GB or 8GB. Mid-ranged system have 160 to 250GB hdd...right where macks sit...while premium laptops have 320 or 640 and even 1TB if you want to spend that kind of money....how many ports really don't matter...but with USB being so cheap...1 usb port is sad for any brand...especially for a Mac. Again as you say...you get what you pay for. However I say...sometimes you get what you pay for...sometimes you don't. It simply based on what you need. Go to any brand and customize any laptop to match the specs of any of the Macs and as stated...in most cases minus teh discounts...Macs will be priced similar...but not in all cases...the definition of premium can be taken in lots of ways...looks is certainly a factor...weight can be also in some cases...however netbooks are certainly not premium models and they have less weight...premium is usually tacked on to performance...and that is a fact...premium gas has higher octane...equal better performance...but its trade off is it burns faster. A laptop with better performace has a trade-off...weight is not one of them...battery life is...but so what...that is why they make a plug for it.

Screen type makes a difference. Premium laptops usually have SUXVGA or WUXVGA which are teh best you can get period. And they always have better resolutions...1680 x 1050 is minimum....the screen og teh Macbook is not a preium screen...it is the same screen Dell uses in most of their laptops...its teh one they usually call Ultrabrite...however the glossy version cost more bec it is a premium screen has has higher resolutions...and those usually cost above $1000.

Maybe you should try looking at more than just the case. Again I am comparing the featires of the hardware where you say the Mac is a premium model. I simply disagree based on what I look for to be premium...Macs are premiu looking...but don't offer premium performance...and I a only speaking of teh laptops.

As for teh desktop it is basically the same story. The biggest Mac Pro you get is favorable among any other companies workstation model. And in firness they all have models that are spec'd siilar to macs and cost more...but more of them certainly cost less. And since I also have an option to eliminate a brand and built my own I can build a Mac with 3x's the speed of what Apple offers for $3000...eve with a Dell or HP...I can get a better spec'd system for $3000. That is a fact...your definition of premium is looks...my definition is specs...both are important...but not equally...perormance of teh value of teh cost is way more iportant than what it looks like...that is a fact..whether you agree or not. A premium laptop should look good and offer above average specs...The Macbook Pro offers mid-ranged spec's at best.

But here is how you be far...my system would be better comparte to teh Macbook pro that has teh 17 inch screen...Apple wants 2799 for it. Look at the specs...they are above average...2.66ghz cpu...again mixed video cards. I don't understand the logic behind that...i think they should be matching and be better than the 9800...it comes with 4GB of ram...8GB cost u $1000 more. That is rediculous..and I know whay they charge you that...because Apple doesn't use modules in these...I believe the ram is soldered to the main board...my laptop came with 6GB....so for $3000 you don't even have user switchable ram...suppose I want to buy perfromance ram vs the consumer models? it comes with a 320 Hdd...however only @ 5400...even cheesy systems that cost less have teh 7200rpm as standard...and apple is charging $50 extra...in real life...a 7200 rpm drive...cost about $25 to $30 more...not $50. That is a fact...and is brand specific...and for $2700 it doesn't even come with iWorks...and battery life...they claim 8hrs...but you're not going to get that if you're pushing the GPU and CPU and high speeds...that is a fact...which means that Mac will only get 2 hrs at best on a full charge.,..sane as mine...with the Mac you have to spend more money on an adapter to hook up screens I don't. I have HDMI and the standard VGA..Mac uses that mini dvi plug which is a on-standard conector that requires you to spend more money...and Applecare at $349 doesn't even cover accidental breakage...yet Dell who charges less does offer this..and it is still cheaper than apple Care..and my system came with 1 year of accidental breakage coverage. What you bught was a fancy name..and I actually bought preium hardware...you bought a mid-ranged spec'd system with a premium case. Does is nothing premium about the hardware at all...but hey you ahve to liv with your choice...I don't. This had been true of most of Apple hardware for years...high cost...low specs...making the Windows commercial true...Macs are about asthetics not performance. Unlike newspapers...if you advertse on tv all informaton whether good or bad has to be factual. Which means MSFT comecrials are not based on opinion...they are based on facts that do apply...just like Macs commercials. But MSFT simply isn't making jokes of Apple hardware..they are identifying how people shop. Most people shop based on specs when it comes to a pc...teh big numbers should be teh specs...not the price tags. If I only had $2000 to shop and I needed a complete computer system and a lil software and a printer...if I bought a Macbook I wouldn't be able to buy anything else. However with $2000 I can buy a computer with better specs than a Mac...and Buy MSFT Office and a brand new printer and still have money left over...that is true value for teh cost and that is why a Windows PC is better...that isn't an opinion..that isn't FUD..and it isn't bias or bashing...it is simply a fact.

As a fact the TCO..of a Windows PC is less than a Mac...that is what makes a PC better. You don't ave to waste money buying extra things that teh syste at that price should come with as standard. No one use mini dvi connectors except Apple...again these are facts and fair comparisions. Now show me where I bashed...show me where I lied...show me FUD...THERE IS NONE. I made sure I was looking at teh pages before rambling...you simply have no leg to stand on...I like all things technical...which means I have no bias towards any hardware...i have bias'd against certain brands. I would never buy a toshiba or Vaio or Mac because they don't offer enough perfromance for the price. They take standard mid-ranged system and put a facier case ont hem and charge you more money. So I personally don't want to pick on Apple...they certainly had a meter of bad example to follow.

[asiafish]

TechieXP said:

Repetition about a fact is a fact. Whether you accept it or not doesn't matter. Battery life isn't important for a laptop that will be plugged in 99% of teh time. Weight doesn't matter for a laptop that will rarely be moved. I have light laptop that is more portable. Its a Dell at 6 lbs...I did not buy the Asus to be portable...that is why it is a desktop replacement. However again I agreed that was you said was true...in YOUR case...not mine.

Then don't bitch that the MacBook Pro is too expensive.

Quote

However whether its a desktop replacement of not this is a fact. If you pay $2500 for a laptop...I don't care who makes it...the hardware specs should be high. None of teh Macbooks have high specs based on the retail price and its basic configuration without changing the hardware. The hardware inside ALL Macbook is comparable to what is found in a mid-range laptop sold by Dell, HP and others for around $1000 or less. THAT IS A FACT. Of course if you choose a PREMIUM LOOKING laptop those cost more...like Toshiba, or Sony and even Lenovo. What you are paying for is simple. You are paying for teh fancy case. Most id-ranged laptops weigh in at 5 to 8 pounds. screen size is usually what chagnes the weight most. However sme MFR's put some ballist in the bottom of teh case to balance the screens weight...it doesn't mean the hardware inside weights that much.

You can't have it all. Lightness, thinness, quality construction and long battery life cost money. You fast desktop processor is actually cheaper than the less powerful laptop processor in the MacBook Pro or other PORTABLE, rather than luggable computers.

Quote

I needed a box with fancier hardware...not a fancy look. Software aside I am taking about the hardware. The only true difference bewteen a Mac and any other laptop other than cost if the pretty box and the OS. That is a fact. That isn't FUD...it isn't bashing...it is simply the truth. As far as the physical system, acs don't offer any performance benefit over any other brand. What they do offer is a pretty nice looking one and a very nice operating system to go with that look. And that is fine if that is how you want to shop. When it comes to laptops...since teh hardware has limited upgradability, buying the fastest one you can afford is a better option then buying a pretty one. Except in your case where you make 6 figures per year and can afford to buy whenever you want too...I don't have that luxury and even if I did...I wouldn't spend money wastefully just because I have it.

You are the only one talking about looks. And again, you saying that there is no difference between a 5.5 lb MacBook Pro and an 11 lb Asus is not a fact, it is an opinion.

Quote

It does matter about the category...no matter how you break doen the family tree...they are all laptops and they are all portable...that is a fact. The main geology broken down is simply to make a category for easy shopping...netbook would be expected to be smaller then a typical laptop using less fancy materials and the hardware inside isn't for flat out perfromance. Ultra-portable that means it is very then...Macbook don't qualify as such..Only the Air, the Adamo and TP X300 I think you said...fair enough...then you have those that fall in the 14 and 15 inch models which are usually mid-ranged as far as cost and hardware. They have mid-level specs...usuaing the cpu is in the uper 1.6ghz to 2.4ghz range...right where the Macs sit...and a premium spec'd laptop are usually 2.66 or better...quadcore is certainly premium as far as specs go...mid-ranged system usually have GPU that are as high as 256MB per card...right where Macs sit. While premium laptops have 256 as a minimium but 512MB would certainly be premium...ram...most mid-ranged system have 2-4GB..right where Macs sit...while premium pc's have 6GB or 8GB. Mid-ranged system have 160 to 250GB hdd...right where macks sit...while premium laptops have 320 or 640 and even 1TB if you want to spend that kind of money....how many ports really don't matter...but with USB being so cheap...1 usb port is sad for any brand...especially for a Mac. Again as you say...you get what you pay for. However I say...sometimes you get what you pay for...sometimes you don't. It simply based on what you need. Go to any brand and customize any laptop to match the specs of any of the Macs and as stated...in most cases minus teh discounts...Macs will be priced similar...but not in all cases...the definition of premium can be taken in lots of ways...looks is certainly a factor...weight can be also in some cases...however netbooks are certainly not premium models and they have less weight...premium is usually tacked on to performance...and that is a fact...premium gas has higher octane...equal better performance...but its trade off is it burns faster. A laptop with better performace has a trade-off...weight is not one of them...battery life is...but so what...that is why they make a plug for it.

Screen size is not an indicator of cost, or quality, just of size. 15" panels are actually found on the cheapest non-netbook laptops today, but those are not the high-end 15" screens that you will find on premium laptops. 13" laptops are almost universally more expensive than 15" laptops because you are paying for the miniaturization and thermal efficiency required to squeeze a full-powered laptop into a small and thin case.

Quote

Screen type makes a difference. Premium laptops usually have SUXVGA or WUXVGA which are teh best you can get period. And they always have better resolutions...1680 x 1050 is minimum....the screen og teh Macbook is not a preium screen...it is the same screen Dell uses in most of their laptops...its teh one they usually call Ultrabrite...however the glossy version cost more bec it is a premium screen has has higher resolutions...and those usually cost above $1000.

Apple's screen on the 15" MacBook Pro is a very high-end LED backlit screen selected for color accuracy, uniform lighting and high contrast. It is worlds better than the 15" glossy screens of the same size found on consumer-grade laptops from Dell or anyone else. The 17" MacBook Pro screen is even more special, with true 24 bit color where almost all other laptops make due with 18 bit color.

Once again, you are talking about things you know absolutely nothing about. Equal size and both being glossy does not make two screens interchangeable. Even if Dell switches to LED backlight and glass surface it doesn't mean they are the same. They are only the same if they order the same panel, and Apple is ordering high-end (read expensive) panels in the MacBook Pro.

In fact, on the 13" unibody MacBook Apple was putting ordinary panels behind the beautiful glass surface and buyers complained of poor viewing angles and low contrast. Apple quietly upgraded to a higher quality panel in March or April. My daughter has the new one and my paralegal the old one, the difference in supposedly identical panels (both 13" LED Backlit 1280X800) is night and day, like the difference between a pro-level 15" MacBook Pro and a consumer-grade Dell.
Maybe you should try looking at more than just the case. Again I am comparing the featires of the hardware where you say the Mac is a premium model. I simply disagree based on what I look for to be premium...Macs are premiu looking...but don't offer premium performance...and I a only speaking of teh laptops.

I do, I look at important things like battery life, weight, features that make living with a machine easy or annoying. The travel and action of the keys are far more important than an extra 200 MHz of processor speed.
As for teh desktop it is basically the same story. The biggest Mac Pro you get is favorable among any other companies workstation model. And in firness they all have models that are spec'd siilar to macs and cost more...but more of them certainly cost less. And since I also have an option to eliminate a brand and built my own I can build a Mac with 3x's the speed of what Apple offers for $3000...eve with a Dell or HP...I can get a better spec'd system for $3000. That is a fact...your definition of premium is looks...my definition is specs...both are important...but not equally...perormance of teh value of teh cost is way more iportant than what it looks like...that is a fact..whether you agree or not. A premium laptop should look good and offer above average specs...The Macbook Pro offers mid-ranged spec's at best.

The biggest Mac Pro is not designed to compete with desktop PCs, but with engineering workstations. Compare it to Dells Precision Workstation with the same Xeon processors and the Apple is cheaper despite having a cleaner and nicer case design.
But here is how you be far...my system would be better comparte to teh Macbook pro that has teh 17 inch screen...Apple wants 2799 for it. Look at the specs...they are above average...2.66ghz cpu...again mixed video cards. I don't understand the logic behind that...i think they should be matching and be better than the 9800...it comes with 4GB of ram...8GB cost u $1000 more. That is rediculous..and I know whay they charge you that...because Apple doesn't use modules in these...I believe the ram is soldered to the main board...my laptop came with 6GB....so for $3000 you don't even have user switchable ram...suppose I want to buy perfromance ram vs the consumer models? it comes with a 320 Hdd...however only @ 5400...even cheesy systems that cost less have teh 7200rpm as standard...and apple is charging $50 extra...in real life...a 7200 rpm drive...cost about $25 to $30 more...not $50. That is a fact...and is brand specific...and for $2700 it doesn't even come with iWorks...and battery life...they claim 8hrs...but you're not going to get that if you're pushing the GPU and CPU and high speeds...that is a fact...which means that Mac will only get 2 hrs at best on a full charge.,..sane as mine...with the Mac you have to spend more money on an adapter to hook up screens I don't. I have HDMI and the standard VGA..Mac uses that mini dvi plug which is a on-standard conector that requires you to spend more money...and Applecare at $349 doesn't even cover accidental breakage...yet Dell who charges less does offer this..and it is still cheaper than apple Care..and my system came with 1 year of accidental breakage coverage. What you bught was a fancy name..and I actually bought preium hardware...you bought a mid-ranged spec'd system with a premium case. Does is nothing premium about the hardware at all...but hey you ahve to liv with your choice...I don't. This had been true of most of Apple hardware for years...high cost...low specs...making the Windows commercial true...Macs are about asthetics not performance. Unlike newspapers...if you advertse on tv all informaton whether good or bad has to be factual. Which means MSFT comecrials are not based on opinion...they are based on facts that do apply...just like Macs commercials. But MSFT simply isn't making jokes of Apple hardware..they are identifying how people shop. Most people shop based on specs when it comes to a pc...teh big numbers should be teh specs...not the price tags. If I only had $2000 to shop and I needed a complete computer system and a lil software and a printer...if I bought a Macbook I wouldn't be able to buy anything else. However with $2000 I can buy a computer with better specs than a Mac...and Buy MSFT Office and a brand new printer and still have money left over...that is true value for teh cost and that is why a Windows PC is better...that isn't an opinion..that isn't FUD..and it isn't bias or bashing...it is simply a fact.

Your system is a budget consumer-grade model, that is why it is cheaper than the pro-level 17" MacBook Pro. Your screen may have the same or even higher resolution than the 17" MacBook Pro, but it is still a sonsumer-grade display, in a bulky (read cheap) case with a cheap keyboard and cheaper desktop processor.
As a fact the TCO..of a Windows PC is less than a Mac...that is what makes a PC better. You don't ave to waste money buying extra things that teh syste at that price should come with as standard. No one use mini dvi connectors except Apple...again these are facts and fair comparisions. Now show me where I bashed...show me where I lied...show me FUD...THERE IS NONE. I made sure I was looking at teh pages before rambling...you simply have no leg to stand on...I like all things technical...which means I have no bias towards any hardware...i have bias'd against certain brands. I would never buy a toshiba or Vaio or Mac because they don't offer enough perfromance for the price. They take standard mid-ranged system and put a facier case ont hem and charge you more money. So I personally don't want to pick on Apple...they certainly had a meter of bad example to follow.

You don't need anything extra for a Mac either.

As for bias, yours is extreme, evidenced by your constant, never-ending rants based on facts that you make up from thin air.
Message was edited by: smax013 - no personal attacks please

[TechieXP]

Ummm...when we were talking about teh user replacable batteries we were talking about ultra-portables...And I know the Air does not have a replacable battery...neither does ipod/phone/touch. We were very specific...The Macbooks I know have replaceable batts.

The way I see it...any device that uses a bettery...the user should be able to replace it. PERIOD. and Apple products being so expensive...why cause your customer to spend more money for something they should be able to do. Something that every other MFR allows you to do. Even if you pay $1 Mil for a McClaren F1 - the battery is user replaceable...Only Apple thinks you should pay soeone to do something that is so simple.

[TechieXP]

Exactly....that is why in my case I make use of 4 cores because 90% of the application if use are written to do so. I use CS3 and CS4...Photpshop and illustrator all use multicores...the Sony software I use for editing music and video all support multicore...I have 2 servers running on my desktop...both use multicore processing...I couldn't afford having 2 cpu taxed 100% of the time...Even on my quadcore desktop...all 4 cpu's are run at 50% when I was using it...most of the time as an average...My cpu's are seldom ever idol. That is why I bought teh Asus...i fneed more power because of what I a doing.

[asiafish]

TechieXP said:

Ummm...when we were talking about teh user replacable batteries we were talking about ultra-portables...And I know the Air does not have a replacable battery...neither does ipod/phone/touch. We were very specific...The Macbooks I know have replaceable batts.

The way I see it...any device that uses a bettery...the user should be able to replace it. PERIOD. and Apple products being so expensive...why cause your customer to spend more money for something they should be able to do. Something that every other MFR allows you to do. Even if you pay $1 Mil for a McClaren F1 - the battery is user replaceable...Only Apple thinks you should pay soeone to do something that is so simple.

The non-replacable battery in the 17" MacBook Pro runs for twice as long as the user-replacable battery in its predecessor, and takes twice as many charges before it needs to be replaced, which is easily done, while you wait, for $160, which is only about $20 more than a replacement battery for the old MacBook Pro that lasts half as long and takes half as many charges.

That is TERRIFIC value, while an 8 hour real-world runtime is terrific performance.

[TechieXP]

Lawyer and honest can never be said in the same sentence ever...now is that my opinion of a fact?
Here is a fact...I never said apple was evil...and it is also a fact you can't read my mind.
Until you can show me where I siply lied about something I said about Apple...you have no ground to stand on. I never said any of my opinions were a fact. YOU DID. That is why I say in MY OPINION. However OPINIONS can be based on facts and I can give my opinion of what those facts mean to me. So it looks like you certainly are not so honest...bec and honst person can't read another person mind...and claim in facts inside someones head...oh i forgot you can...because you must be a God.

You can only base honestly on a person...not a profession. Because when it comes to honestly...lawyers, politicians and cops are certainly not honest...even though teh prefession says they should be. So don't even equate honestly with a persons job...MSFT isn't where they are because they were always honest...neither is Apple...in fact I can't think of an honest profession...even banks do things that are dishonest...and being legal doesn't make it honest...it just makes it legal. So again you're wrong.

And you're certainly wrong about me.
I don't hate Macs...what I hate is people who say they are better overall...they siply have a few better features. I have a right to question as a consumer ifthose thong that makes Macs different from any other brand is worth the extra cost. In my opinion and with so many others it is not. That isn't bias...its a fact.

[Evildave]

What if you have a toast emergency... and you don't have a portable atomic toaster?

Any 'computer emergency' that needs me to stop, drag the computer out of the trunk is usually the sort that can be better taken care of when I get to the hotel. The largest portion of this sort of 'emergency' is responding to an email. Something you can do with a $200 netbook, or an iPhone/Blackberry/Kindle for that matter. Or even just pick up the phone and tell them 'later'.

All I'm saying is that something oversized and overheated LIKE one of these desktop-replacememnt 'notebook' that can't be used off of a desk isn't really any more portable than the iMac, and it's definitely less usable on its own for the majority of its existence on your desk. All big notebooks take up an enormous amount of desk space to use whenever you're not traveling.

The iMac is as 'all in one' as one of those super-sized notebooks get. Except it's super-duper super-sized. All I'm doing is dropping the illusion that the computer can be used without plugging it in and setting it up at a desk.

[quackadilly]

The Asus would probably do wonders with a slice of bread.



True most if not all computer emergencies could wait. What if you're waiting at the airport and you're bidding on an atomic toaster thats gonna expire in 30 minutes...... now there's an emergency.



It's definitely not more portable than anything other than a real desktop. No doubt. But the idea of having that kind of power, anywhere, even if for only 2 hours is a nice thing.

[Evildave]

Well, that's the thing. If I'm going to use a computer 'full time', a desktop-like machine is what's called for.

Yes, I could get any of those little PCs, but my primary use for the computer isn't travelling. It's just sitting at home in front of a big screen, with a big keyboard, and typing lots of code... and the occasional forum flame. When I do travel AND need the PC, it's usually going to be to a hotel room with a desk and an outlet.

All I'm pointing out is that the iMac CAN travel. It CAN be taken with you wherever an AC outlet happens to be.

I really can't budge on big, high resolution screen OR a 'real' keyboard. While it's technically 'possible' to do my work on a small screen, it's vastly easier on a large one.

Yes, I could get the 17" PowerBook as a primary computer, but even though that is much, much better and more usable than most of the other notebooks (especially ones like that ASUS brick), it's not any better than any other 17" notebook when I sit in front of it at my desk, 99% of the time. It still consumes a bunch of desktop real estate, it still needs some form of anti-cat barrier to keep the cats off the buttons. On top of being physically large, at home It gets a tangle of wires ALL AROUND IT to be hooked into things.

The only thing that can recommend the 'big' notebook form factor is setting up in adverse conditions where you don't have a desk or table top. Those sorts of conditions aren't particularly good for doing my work. After a couple of hours, my neck and shoulders will be done in, and I'll have gotten nothing done.

The iMac's form factor is friendly to desktop space at home, and friendly to moving it around. It has a 'real' 3.5" hard disk in it, which makes a substantial difference in performance over any 2.5" mechanical notebook drive. It has a 'real' display. Really nice, and really big. While it's not substantially more powerful than the notebook models it IS a different shape.

Realize that for a time, I used a Motion M1400 tablet as a second PC. The iMac's form factor is no different than setting that up on the little stand that came with it. Only BIGGER and MORE STABLE.

[asiafish]

TechieXP said:

Lawyer and honest can never be said in the same sentence ever...now is that my opinion of a fact?
Here is a fact...I never said apple was evil...and it is also a fact you can't read my mind.
Until you can show me where I siply lied about something I said about Apple...you have no ground to stand on. I never said any of my opinions were a fact. YOU DID. That is why I say in MY OPINION. However OPINIONS can be based on facts and I can give my opinion of what those facts mean to me. So it looks like you certainly are not so honest...bec and honst person can't read another person mind...and claim in facts inside someones head...oh i forgot you can...because you must be a God.

And you know this from your years of experience in the courtroom?

I don't need to be a god to know facts from fiction, just knowledgable, or when I don't know something, either silent or inquisitive. Thats the difference between you and me, you spew forth knowledge even when you don't have a clue, while I will correct your many errors when I know the truth, or keep my mouth (fingers?) shut when I don't.

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You can only base honestly on a person...not a profession. Because when it comes to honestly...lawyers, politicians and cops are certainly not honest...even though teh prefession says they should be. So don't even equate honestly with a persons job...MSFT isn't where they are because they were always honest...neither is Apple...in fact I can't think of an honest profession...even banks do things that are dishonest...and being legal doesn't make it honest...it just makes it legal. So again you're wrong.

Sounds like you've got some serious authority issues. Like most of the lawyers I know, most of the cops (I was a federal agent for a decade) I've met are also dedicated people trying to protect you from the scum out there.

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And you're certainly wrong about me.
I don't hate Macs...what I hate is people who say they are better overall...they siply have a few better features. I have a right to question as a consumer ifthose thong that makes Macs different from any other brand is worth the extra cost. In my opinion and with so many others it is not. That isn't bias...its a fact.

No, I'm dead on about you. I don't know what Apple did to you, but you act as though they tortured your cat and peed in your wine. Nobody here said they (or I) was any better than anyone else. What I did say, correctly, is that you are a liar with an agenda. You are very clearly an anti-Apple zealot, and from your off-topic posting clearly a religious zealot as well. That makes perfect sense in the context of how you take what you believe and state it as fact. A blanket statement that Apple is overpriced or there is no difference between a Mac and a PC is just a belief, not a fact, just as any myth, parable or legend, while told, is not necessarily true. You believe Macs are more expensive than PCs and you believe that there is a god, but neither is a fact, just a belief. Sometimes beliefs are correct and sometimes they are wrong, but the simple fact is, you (and I) don't know if there is or isn't a god. Sometimes a given product from Apple or any other company is overprised, sometimes it is a raging bargain. What you don't get is that value of a product, or the validity of a given faith, is entirely in the eye of the beholder, and you (or I, or anyone else) are in no way qualified to declare the truth.

Of course, the zealot always believes that his or her own view is the only correct one. I'm guessing from your previous rants that you are Christian. Is it a fact that non-Christians go to hell? Go talk to a Muslim, a Jew, a Hindu, a Buddhist or an Atheist, and you will find that none of them agree with you. Who are you to contradict almost 6,000 years of Jewish history and wisdom and say that they are wrong and you are right? Or 2,600 years of Buddhism? Can you say they are idiots who know nothing because they don't share your beliefs? To a Buddhist, your religion is nothing more than a distraction from the pursuit of enlightenment, while to a Jew it is just the following of a false prophet. To an Atheist, all religions are nothing more than propaganda. The only FACT about religion is that there are more than one, and not one of them (and I include Atheism in that group) can be held out as a universal fact.

Of course, as a non-zealot I keep my own spiritual views to myself. They are not part of a discussion of Macs and PCs, which unlike religion, are physical products with physical qualities that can be factually examined. I've never owned a Sony laptop, for instance, and so the only aspect of Sony's laptops that I've ever talked about is their looks or their specs, because those are the only aspects of which I have any knowledge. Likewise you know next to nothing about Apple. You keep bringing up 30-year-old rants from the Apple II era, or 20-year-old rants about products long dead. Any one can point at any company and ridicule past products. Compaq's original portables weighed over 30 lbs. Easy to laugh now, but in their day they were the cutting edge of miniaturization. You look at the Mac Portable at 16 lbs and laugh at it in the context of 2009, but that was a 1992 design, and 17-years-ago an active matrix screen and 12-hour runtime (lead acid batteries no less) were very impressive for those who could afford it.

[asiafish]

quackadilly said:

The Asus would probably do wonders with a slice of bread.





True most if not all computer emergencies could wait. What if you're waiting at the airport and you're bidding on an atomic toaster thats gonna expire in 30 minutes...... now there's an emergency.





It's definitely not more portable than anything other than a real desktop. No doubt. But the idea of having that kind of power, anywhere, even if for only 2 hours is a nice thing.

But you can have 90% of the power in half the weight with 13 hours of juice in a size that is actually handy. Its called picking the right tool for the job, and the desktop replacement is not the right tool for the job of travel.

[MarioJP]

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quackadilly said:

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But you can have 90% of the power in half the weight with 13 hours of juice in a size that is actually handy. Its called picking the right tool for the job, and the desktop replacement is not the right tool for the job of travel.

Although would say for traveling though i have to admit that these smartphones are really getting powerful to the point that the basic things can be done on a smartphone. I dunno much about the iphone but i do know that the blackberry is a multitasker champ. I have no need for a laptop or netop while on the go. And now with these smartphones having wifi capabilities that just adds more points to smartphone progression. All the emails i get goes directly to my bb in a split second the moment it hits my inbox.

With that being said only ting left for laptops is a desktop replacement laptops. Anything else is becoming towards mobile devices or more time spent on them than you would on your laptop especially for the basic thing. Smartphones are becoming the next best thing on the go forget about a low powered high efficient laptop. I am just waiting for these smartphones to become even more powerful with an impressive battery life. Its just so easy to use don't have to lug a laptop and smartphones can be easily managed on the go. Can't fit a laptop in your pocket now can you.