[WinTard]

What you find amusing, others may find offensive. And that is wrong IMHO from Apple to ridicule PC's. Microsoft's ads do not make fun of anything. Good or bad, they are FACTS.

Then the Apple crowd, starts dumping all over PCs stating fallacies as to better quality, parts and all the other BS.

The only reality is Apple makes good machines. No more. No less. Usually, and as is proven by the almighty dollar, they are priced around 40% more than comparable brand-name PCs as per articles published here at PCWorld. (I'm too lazy to go dig it up at the moment).

And that is also my observation. That Apples while being good quality machines, are in fact overpriced, when comparing specifications.

I also completly reject this myth that they use any better electronic component, oftentimes used by the Apple crowd to justify their higher prices.

Yes I am prepared to disprove those myths.

Other than that, I have no beefs. Only against FUD and Bull.

[smax013]

MarioJP said:

Its really is average joe vs tech savy really, winodws users tend to be more tech savy than the mac counterparts as it is a computer design for simplicity and making sure it works before its out the factory.

Wow. Take about a wild over generalization and what appears to be pure speculation.

I have met my share of tech savy Mac users AND Windows PC users. I have also met my share of "average joes" on each. And neither seems to have much of an edge one way or another.

[smax013]

Evildave said:

They make a well balanced computer that runs well, doesn't cook your crotch, and goes for hours away from a plug. All of the 'options' in the world can be a bad thing, especially in most users' hands.

Eh, not quite completely true. There have definitely been well documented heat issues with both MacBooks and MacBook Pros. Apple ain't perfect...as much as I might like their products.

[asiafish]

WinTard said:

What you find amusing, others may find offensive. And that is wrong IMHO from Apple to ridicule PC's. Microsoft's ads do not make fun of anything. Good or bad, they are FACTS.

Then the Apple crowd, starts dumping all over PCs stating fallacies as to better quality, parts and all the other BS.

The only reality is Apple makes good machines. No more. No less. Usually, and as is proven by the almighty dollar, they are priced around 40% more than comparable brand-name PCs as per articles published here at PCWorld. (I'm too lazy to go dig it up at the moment).

No, Apple's PREMIUM PCs cost about 40% more than other brands' CONSUMER PCs. Those same brands, like HP, Toshiba, Lenovo and Dell, also all sell premium models that cost about the same as Apple's, sometimes a little less, sometimes a little more.

Quote

And that is also my observation. That Apples while being good quality machines, are in fact overpriced, when comparing specifications.

Competing specifications DOES NOT mean processor and hard drive, it also means thinness, lightness, battery life, industrial design, which is not the same as looks, display quality, which is not the same as size or resolution. There is a lot that separates a premium PC from a consumer PC, you just choose to ignore it and claim they are all the same.

Quote

I also completly reject this myth that they use any better electronic component, oftentimes used by the Apple crowd to justify their higher prices.

Yes I am prepared to disprove those myths.

Other than that, I have no beefs. Only against FUD and Bull.

Then stop spreading them. Consumer-grade machines are cheaper than premium-grade machines, not because they are identical, but because they are cheaper to make and have lower margins. They have lower margins because most consumers buy only based on price, while those who buy premium products, and I don't mean luxury, I mean quality, are willing to pay more to get that better quality.

ThinkPads usually cost double what a cheap consumer laptop with the same processor specs costs, but I believe that the quality is more than twice as high, and that is a good value. Apple is a direct competitor, and is also a good value. Budget machines are also a good value, but based on their price instead of their quality.

[quackadilly]

Why do you always have to twist everything?
-----
"Gaming is a use only for those interested in gaming, and means nothing whatsoever to those not interested in gaming."


FACT:

Gaming is a HUGE market. Gaming is NOT insignificant. Just because you aren't a big gamer does not mean that no one plays games. You are 1 person, you don't represent any population but yourself.

-----
"The W90 isn't suited for use anywhere except on a table or desk. Even there, only if those tables are either close together or its a short walk to your car."


Again, just because you don't find this laptop suitable on the road does not mean that no one else will. On a desk is not the only place you can use it.

-----
"So because you think a 17" isn't less portable than a 15" makes it so?"


And because you say otherwise makes your words fact?

-----
"As for heat, wow, carrying a pad with fans, that sure makes your 11 lb behemoth lighter, more portable and more battery-efficient."


Just because you don't see the benefit makes it non-beneficial for everyone? Why is that?

-----
"They won't, it will run out of juice too quickly, or will be left at home because it is just too damned heavy."


What if it's plugged in? It can't run out of juice if it's plugged in....

Too heavy for you. It's not too heavy for everyone just because you say so.....just you.

[quackadilly]

"You say MacBook...you do NOT say Mac OS. Whether you intended to or not, your intend clearly seemed to be that you said that a MacBook (as in the COMPUTER) could not handle such tasks...and I disagreed...a MacBook Pro certainly can, as can a MacBook."


The Mac Book (Pro) comes with OSX right? The Mac Book (Pro) can not do what we discussed by itself. You have to modify the original machine. Don't put words in my mouth to steer this in your direction. I never said "just the hardware". A computer is nothing without an OS.......
-----
"I am curious...why do you care so much what I use? Did Steve Ballmer threaten to kill your dog if I did not switch to a Windows laptop? If so, you can tell Steve that he already got my money when I bought Win XP Pro to put on my MacBook Pro...and he likely got more money that if I had bought a Dell or HP or some other Windows laptop as licenses to consumers tend to result in more revenue for Microsoft than volume OEM licenses to manufacturers. It would make more sense if Michael Dell threaten to kill your dog if I did not buy a Dell laptop. Of course, if that happens, you should just tell Michael to go ahead as I will never, ever buy another Dell after the way I was treated by customer service when I had problem with my last Dell."


I really don't care what you use. All I said was that you can do more on a Windows machine. I never said you should have bought a Windows computer. And what's with the "kill your dog" references? How professional for a moderator......



And no, no one threatened to kill my dog. Rhetorical situations are useless to use to prove your argument. Just stick to the facts please.







Honestly, I will never buy another Dell either. I had a bad experience with them when I bought my X50v from them. Does that mean that no one should buy from them? No. I might inform potential buyers of how I was treated, but it's ultimatly their choice.

[quackadilly]

"Then stop spreading them. Consumer-grade machines are cheaper than premium-grade machines, not because they are identical, but because they are cheaper to make and have lower margins. They have lower margins because most consumers buy only based on price, while those who buy premium products, and I don't mean luxury, I mean quality, are willing to pay more to get that better quality. "



They are cheaper to make because they have less features....less speed.....less battery life.....smaller screens.....less RAM.....less HDD space....... any combination of things. It has nothing to do with the quality of the parts going on the motherboard.



It's all design quality, not component quality.

[asiafish]

quackadilly said:

Why do you always have to twist everything?
-----
"Gaming is a use only for those interested in gaming, and means nothing whatsoever to those not interested in gaming."





FACT:


Gaming is a HUGE market. Gaming is NOT insignificant. Just because you aren't a big gamer does not mean that no one plays games. You are 1 person, you don't represent any population but yourself.

No, gaming is not significant to non-gamers, period. When did I ever claim it wasn't significant to me or to the marketplace? NON-GAMERS, duh.

Quote

-----
"The W90 isn't suited for use anywhere except on a table or desk. Even there, only if those tables are either close together or its a short walk to your car."




Again, just because you don't find this laptop suitable on the road does not mean that no one else will. On a desk is not the only place you can use it.


-----
"So because you think a 17" isn't less portable than a 15" makes it so?"





And because you say otherwise makes your words fact?

My words are fact because they are correct. 15" laptops as a class ARE more portable than 17" laptops. There are a few exceptions, such as the MacBook Pro 17" with its 8 hour battery and 6.5 lb weight is much more portable than a 9 lb 15" model with 2 hour battery life, but since size is a major aspect of portability, yes, 15" is smaller than 17" and thus everything else being equal, more portable. THAT is a fact, which is different than an opinion. 5.5 lbs is more portable than 11 lbs - another FACT.

Quote

-----
"As for heat, wow, carrying a pad with fans, that sure makes your 11 lb behemoth lighter, more portable and more battery-efficient."




Just because you don't see the benefit makes it non-beneficial for everyone? Why is that?

Never said I didn't see the benefit, I just said, correctly, that adding auxiliary cooling devices that run off the battery and add bulk and weight makes a system that barely fits the definition of portable even less portable. Again, adding extra items to your system makes it less portable and plugging in more devices reduces you battery life. FACTS, not opinion.

Quote

-----
"They won't, it will run out of juice too quickly, or will be left at home because it is just too damned heavy."





What if it's plugged in? It can't run out of juice if it's plugged in....

And you carry a generator with you? Then you may run out of gas. The world is not covered in portable public power outlets. I had a layover in San Francisco and found it quite funny watching two dozen or so passengers fighting over the 3 outlets (6 plugs). With my 13 hour battery life I just found a quiet place to sit away from the outlet and with my surplus of battery power even used my running laptop to charge my cell phone.

Quote

Too heavy for you. It's not too heavy for everyone just because you say so.....just you.

I could carry it just fine, but like all people who use a portable as an actual portable, I strive for balance between size, weight, battery power and system muscle. Sorry, 11 lb gaming machines are NOT that balance. That machine is for gamers, engineers and others who need maximum power, which it has, without regard to portability, which it very clearly sacrifices.

[asiafish]

Quote

The Mac Book (Pro) comes with OSX right? The Mac Book (Pro) can not do what we discussed by itself. You have to modify the original machine. Don't put words in my mouth to steer this in your direction. I never said "just the hardware". A computer is nothing without an OS.......

He didn't have to modify the MacBook Pro either? Did you modify your PC when you installed MS Word? Guess what, your PC isn't compatible without that modification. Installing Windows doesn't modify a MacBook, its just one of many software packages that the computer can run.

Quote

-----
"I am curious...why do you care so much what I use? Did Steve Ballmer threaten to kill your dog if I did not switch to a Windows laptop? If so, you can tell Steve that he already got my money when I bought Win XP Pro to put on my MacBook Pro...and he likely got more money that if I had bought a Dell or HP or some other Windows laptop as licenses to consumers tend to result in more revenue for Microsoft than volume OEM licenses to manufacturers. It would make more sense if Michael Dell threaten to kill your dog if I did not buy a Dell laptop. Of course, if that happens, you should just tell Michael to go ahead as I will never, ever buy another Dell after the way I was treated by customer service when I had problem with my last Dell."

Quote

I really don't care what you use. All I said was that you can do more on a Windows machine. I never said you should have bought a Windows computer. And what's with the "kill your dog" references? How professional for a moderator......

Actually you can do more on a Mac, because a Mac IS a Windows machine with the addition of a Windows license, but a Windows machine is never a Mac, and don't bring up the Hackintosh thing because that is not a Mac as not everything works correctly or reliably, basic things like sound input-output and power management do not work on most Hackintoshes.

[asiafish]

quackadilly said:

"Then stop spreading them. Consumer-grade machines are cheaper than premium-grade machines, not because they are identical, but because they are cheaper to make and have lower margins. They have lower margins because most consumers buy only based on price, while those who buy premium products, and I don't mean luxury, I mean quality, are willing to pay more to get that better quality. "





They are cheaper to make because they have less features....less speed.....less battery life.....smaller screens.....less RAM.....less HDD space....... any combination of things. It has nothing to do with the quality of the parts going on the motherboard.

No, they are cheaper because they are cheaper to make, period. There are a lot of components that are not related to a hard specification like processor speed, and that is where premium machines excel. Case structure and design is a big one, as is battery quality. Display quality is a huge difference, with high quality panels costing three or more times as much as low quality panels even of the same size and resolution. Just because two computers have 15.4" 1440X900 LCDs does not make them equal. Lenovo has a high-nit option that adds $300 to the price of the PC, and is well worth it for people who use their laptop outdoors or need extra brightness and contrast. Apple's screens, like those of many premium systems, are selected for highest quality, not lowest bidder.

Quote

It's all design quality, not component quality.

Design quality is a big part of it. Better design reduces size and weight, increases cooling efficiency and just makes a machine more comfortable and pleasant to use. Of course, good design isn't free, it costs money, and that cost is incorporated into the price of a machine. I'll gladly pay a few hundred dollars more for a laptop with a more comfortable keyboard and a higher quality display panel.

[TechieXP]

I get that...but things change everyday. The point is providing the option to consider if they need it...not the company. That is the problem I have with Apple. They are assuming that the way they set up the Mac hardware is based on how people use a computer. And it isn't. I am not saying every model has to have teh same options. I am saying there should be one that does.

I said that because...again Macs are use primarily in work that deals with meda. So why would you leave off the type of media hardware people use. As I said...maby people take pictures with their camera phone...the majority use flash drines...most digital cameras use flash drives...not everyone wwants to carry around a USB drive. If teh Mac simply had the interface it would make it easier.

Not all laptops have that as an option...but most do for a reason...PEOPLE USE IT. They wouldn't buy a laptop with it when there are certainly models they can buy that don't offer suce hardware. That is the best thing about a Windows PC...you can buy one taylored to fit your need. If one size fit everyone then there would be no need for so any choices in each industry.

And just because there are companys that sell cheap stuff, doesn't mean you have to buy it. However based on what you said, I have never seen a system that didn't have an adequate power supply. The supply is for the hardware the system came with. If you upgrade pass those limits then you nee to buy a better source of power.

People are still buy PC's...there is just a drop. Apple suffered a drop in sales to...they simply manage to sell more Macs then last year. However Dell even with a 22% drop in sales for the first quarter still sold there per usual amount...they still sold 15 million units...They are presently suffering a 34% lost with the month of April...even with that lose, they will still sell more and make more money than Apple. Apple made about 3 Billion and Dell made 12.x Billion. No matter how bad PC sales get, all of them will still sell more computers than Apple does...because they have a much bigger market. And Dell like MSFT does most of its sales in the enterprise. However on a consumer level it appears Dell sells more computers than HP bec all I ever see is Dell.'s. However HP is number one...but I believe HP has been selling more computers on the enterprises as many businesses compalined about how long it was taking to get new systems. We too bought 2 HP's at the office bec it was going to take Dell to long to get us systems.

The greatest thing about Windows PC's is versatility. Considering every possible need of the user. Macs don't do that and I feel they never have. If you look at teh history of every system Apple built and compare them with Windows based PC's un the same year...you can look at the physical setup of the machine and see who is more important. IMHO...any product that sells for more yet offers less isn't worth its cost. Doesn't matter what it is. When it comes to computers...even if it is slower, heavier, not as pretty..and it still has what I need then I will buy it.

For those who are will to work with the confines of what Apple offers, then I am ok with that. But I can't and I shouldn't have to be force to do things one way. I pay for it because I want it as close to my way as possible. And as long as someone offers that, That is who I am choosing. If that means Windows...so be it. I don't use Windows because I like it...I use it because it does what I need is easy to use and I have learn how to make my computer experience a great one. I don't own a Mac because OSX doesn't have the all of the software I like to use...I would have to install Windows on it to do what I do. Which to me defeats the purpose of getting a Mac in the first place. I don't need 2 OS's...for those who want to work that way...so be it. I see it as counter-productive...to just chose an OS to do things just because you like the way it looks or fells...yet you have to use the other to get work done. For those who do it...more power to them. Nothing wrong with it. But it isn't for me. I think Apple has to many limitations to use their stuff. That is simply my opinion...for those who don't see those limits...I would say it is because what they need may not exceed those limits so they don't see any. I saw them years ago...that is why I didn't leave the Apple IIGS for a Mac...I left and bought a Windows PC. I been happey ever since.

[rgreen4]

asiafish said:

No, gaming is not significant to non-gamers, period. When did I ever claim it wasn't significant to me or to the marketplace? NON-GAMERS, duh.

Actually all of us who use "Micro-Computers" (an old term that definitely covers WinTel as well as Apple) owe a great debt of thanks to the gamers. It's the gamers who push the envelope of speed and reliability in both the central processor and the graphics processor though overclocking and competition. Back in the early days, improvements were slow, today, the gamers take a top level card and push the heck out of it. Then the manufacturers work and bring out the improved card in months, not years.

We mere consumers then get to buy the second level (as opposed the latest and greatest gaming chips) cards for a reasonable amount or the third level for a very modest amount and get vastly improved images and speed compared to just last year at this time.

asiafish said:

My words are fact because they are correct. 15" laptops as a class ARE more portable than 17" laptops. There are a few exceptions, such as the MacBook Pro 17" with its 8 hour battery and 6.5 lb weight is much more portable than a 9 lb 15" model with 2 hour battery life, but since size is a major aspect of portability, yes, 15" is smaller than 17" and thus everything else being equal, more portable. THAT is a fact, which is different than an opinion. 5.5 lbs is more portable than 11 lbs - another FACT

Actually, yes a 15" laptop is more portable than a 17", because it is slightly smaller, and typically weighs 1 lb less. Todays general consumer 17" laptops weigh in at the 7-8 lb range and the 15" latops weight in at the 6-7 lb range. And if battery life is a real concern, the 12 cell battery option lasts longer, and a second battery allows one also to escape the traffic jam at the electrical outlet.

Full disclosure - being retired allows one to fully avoid the hated airports and travel via a leisurely drive. Since I did not travel with my former employer for the last years, the last time I had to travel on business was 10 years ago. The last time I had to fly for any reason was 5 years ago, and I used a very unusual device on the plane to avoid the shortage of electrical outlets - I read a book.

[asiafish]

[quote name='rgreen4']
>

asiafish said:

No, gaming is not significant to non-gamers, period. When did I ever claim it wasn't significant to me or to the marketplace? NON-GAMERS, duh.

Actually all of us who use "Micro-Computers" (an old term that definitely covers WinTel as well as Apple) owe a great debt of thanks to the gamers. It's the gamers who push the envelope of speed and reliability in both the central processor and the graphics processor though overclocking and competition. Back in the early days, improvements were slow, today, the gamers take a top level card and push the heck out of it. Then the manufacturers work and bring out the improved card in months, not years.

I agree and am a gamer myself.

Quote

We mere consumers then get to buy the second level (as opposed the latest and greatest gaming chips) cards for a reasonable amount or the third level for a very modest amount and get vastly improved images and speed compared to just last year at this time.

Or we get those advanced capabilities in ever smaller, lighter and more power efficient forms.
[quote]
>

asiafish said:

My words are fact because they are correct. 15" laptops as a class ARE more portable than 17" laptops. There are a few exceptions, such as the MacBook Pro 17" with its 8 hour battery and 6.5 lb weight is much more portable than a 9 lb 15" model with 2 hour battery life, but since size is a major aspect of portability, yes, 15" is smaller than 17" and thus everything else being equal, more portable. THAT is a fact, which is different than an opinion. 5.5 lbs is more portable than 11 lbs - another FACT

Actually, yes a 15" laptop is more portable than a 17", because it is slightly smaller, and typically weighs 1 lb less. Todays general consumer 17" laptops weigh in at the 7-8 lb range and the 15" latops weight in at the 6-7 lb range. And if battery life is a real concern, the 12 cell battery option lasts longer, and a second battery allows one also to escape the traffic jam at the electrical outlet.

Absolutely, hence my purchase of the ThinkPad T400. 9 cell main battery runs up to 10 hours. 3 cell ultrabay battery runs up to 3 hours.

Quote

Full disclosure - being retired allows one to fully avoid the hated airports and travel via a leisurely drive. Since I did not travel with my former employer for the last years, the last time I had to travel on business was 10 years ago. The last time I had to fly for any reason was 5 years ago, and I used a very unusual device on the plane to avoid the shortage of electrical outlets - I read a book.

Travel can be as much for pleasure as business. I will travel from Los Angeles to Seoul for a 2 week vacation next month, and love that I can choose my own in-flight movies for most of the 13-hour flight if I so choose.

[rgreen4]

asiafish said:

Travel can be as much for pleasure as business. I will travel from Los Angeles to Seoul for a 2 week vacation next month, and love that I can choose my own in-flight movies for most of the 13-hour flight if I so choose.

I will have to admit that it is extremely difficult to take a leisurely drive to Seoul. B-)

[WinTard]

asiafish said:

{Snipped}

> I also completly reject this myth that they use any better electronic component, oftentimes used by the Apple crowd to justify their higher prices.
>
> Yes I am prepared to disprove those myths.
>
> Other than that, I have no beefs. Only against FUD and Bull.

Then stop spreading them. Consumer-grade machines are cheaper than premium-grade machines, not because they are identical, but because they are cheaper to make and have lower margins. They have lower margins because most consumers buy only based on price, while those who buy premium products, and I don't mean luxury, I mean quality, are willing to pay more to get that better quality.

>{Snipped}

I beg to differ asiafish, but in my opinion, you are the one spreading FUD and fallacies, such as this myth of 'better quality electronic components'.

Better than average quality design, I won't argue. Absolute best? Absolutely I will argue!

Before you telling others to stop spreading FUD and bull, please look at yourself first. And the number of trivial and irrelevant rants in this specific thread you've generated...

Please see: http://what-is-what....hat_is/fud.html for a more comprehensive dissertation about FUD...

FUD is an acronym for "fear, uncertainty, and doubt." FUD is often employed as a semi-legitimate marketing tool in the technology sector, in which purchasing decisions are often made by parties who are unable to completely assess two competing products. As FUD is usually based upon the lack of information, rather than the availability of information, FUD campaigns are very effective in influencing decision-makers who do not fully understand a given technology. It is the FUD campaigner's goal to prevent assessment of knowledge, which is a far easier goal than promoting knowledge and teaching prospective clients about new technologies.
{snipped}

With all due respects, Thank you.

~~~~~~~~~~
Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do.
~ Dale Carnegie

The most debilitating emotion known to mankind is fear
What is F.E.A.R. False Evidence Appearing Real!
http://www.firewalki.../selfgrowth.jsp

[artzy65]

"to just chose an OS to do things just because you like the way it looks or fells...yet you have to use the other to get work done"
To say that a 'look and feel' mac user like me buys for only that reason is patently arrogant and downright foolish, unless you are talking about yourself re getting your work done; in which case you should really proofread and edit your posts so as to better qualify your statements.

[TechieXP]

I agree.

Based on pricings..I have found the swing to be around $200 - $400. And the swing could be in either direction. However Windows PC's have more options for lower cost because their are ore sellers undercutting to get you to buy.

I also even did this to be ore fair. If you go to Dell's website and spec a system to match the Mac in many cases the cost is more or a few bucks less before Dell applies the discount. But still in many cases those PC's still offer more options.

Example...with some many USB devices, 1 port is surely not enough on any laptop. So the Mac Air having one is just not worth it. Suppose when I get to my destination I want to use an external mouse and keyboard and the option for them isn't for bluetooth...then what? If I have a storage drive I need to hook up and the port is already in use...I have to unplug one device to use another and then do it again when I am done. Even though it is quick...it still wastes time. Being pretty should be the focus of hardware. The focus should be on viable options. A laptop that cost $2700 is useless if it can't even do the simplest of tasks.

Laptops especially should have a fair amount of ports. I don't think you need 6 USB's but 2 would be fair...I think there should still be 1 PS2 port that will accept a mouse and a keyboard. PS2 is being phased out, but plenty of computers wtill use them. There should be 1 Firewire...though I rather replace it with something else. Of course 1 VGA or by now since most monitors have them laptops should ahve DVI. And since many devices used flash media a flash media reader is worth the $20 that most charge for it. And if you don't need those things, you simply get a laptop that is configure to what you need. Apple assumes you don't need it...or siply doesn't offer it.

From what I see of OSX...it is certainly worth more than 129.99...In fact it could cost the same as Vista at 199.99. The cost is probably made up in the cost of the Mac...Anytime a companys takes a hit on pricing on one item, it is paid some other way. Just like with phones...That is why they make you sig a contract. A phone that cost $500 will cost you $199.99 if you agree too a 2 year contract...because as long as you pay your bill, the additional cost will be covered over time....

And yes Apple commercials are a joke, but I don't find them funny. In 97...Steve said out of his own mouth...the years of competition betwee us is over...yet he still finds a way to show how much he hates MSFT. Attack after attack after attack...and the weapons they are using actually are blunt. They aren't even inflicting any pain..the commercials promote bias and prejudice in making it seem Windows is just totally bad and useless and that Macs are the best computer know to man. They have a 6.x% US market and a 3.x% overseas market giving them their 10%...I think the jokes on them. If you can't beat them...insult them.

[artzy65]

"They aren't even inflicting any pain..the commercials promote bias and prejudice in making it seem Windows is just totally bad and useless and that Macs are the best computer know to man. They have a 6.x% US market and a 3.x% overseas market giving them their 10%...I think the jokes on them. If you can't beat them...insult them."
Apple is number one worldwide in brand recognition and number one in admiration by businesses? yes, businesses ?worldwide

[WinTard]

I must interject that the admiration is not for their technical abilities, or the sophistication or quality of their products, but for the fact they shine with one of the highest profit margins found in the industry. Which is the primary purpose of business in the first place? Profits & bottom line.

If businesses admired Apples for their technical prowess and quality, they would use apple products in their businesses as well. Which is virtually non-existent? That perspective and factual market distribution must count for something too?

[TechieXP]

WinTard wrote:
> What you find amusing, others may find offensive. And that is wrong IMHO from Apple to ridicule PC's. Microsoft's ads do not make fun of anything. Good or bad, they are FACTS.
>

> Then the Apple crowd, starts dumping all over PCs stating fallacies as to better quality, parts and all the other BS.
>

> The only reality is Apple makes good machines. No more. No less. Usually, and as is proven by the almighty dollar, they are priced around 40% more than comparable brand-name PCs as per articles published here at PCWorld. (I'm too lazy to go dig it up at the moment).No, Apple charges about 40% more for their PREMIUM computers than PC makes charge for their CONSUMER-GRADE computers, which are NOT comparable. Dell Lenovo, HP, Toshiba and others also sell premium computers and those cost 40% more than their own consumer-grade models. Sometimes the premium PC is cheaper than Apple's, sometimes its more expensive, but the price differences are small, maybe 5 or 10%, but nowhere near 40%, and of course they are on both directions of Apple's prices.
> And that is also my observation. That Apples while being good quality machines, are in fact overpriced, when comparing specifications.
>

> I also completly reject this myth that they use any better electronic component, oftentimes used by the Apple crowd to justify their higher prices.
>

> Yes I am prepared to disprove those myths.
>

> Other than that, I have no beefs. Only against FUD and Bull.

I guess it depends on how you define Premium. @ Asisfish. The only difference between a consumer grade laptop and a preium is teh case they stick the hardware in. If you feel the case is work $200 more of your dollars then that is ok. The is siply a Premium case...that isn't premium hardware. Premium hardware is faster better hardware. On an average the Macs use Intel's 2.4Ghz CPU..and 2GB of ram...you can grab any brand a spec a system exactly the same. The parts inside are the same PERIOD that is a fact. Apple guys from ht same MFR's everyone else does. Same with Toshiba, Sony and others who have premium grade hardware. The only difference for the most part is all cosmetic...they use a fancier case...use a fancier keyboard...thats it...and maybe a few details like backlit keys ans similar. That is all cosmetic...it has nothing to do with the performance inside the computer. When people are looking at computers they are looking the the specs first...getting as much speed especially for a laptop that can't be upgraded. Then they settle on a style that fits the look they want to have. The only difference is plastic vs aluminum. Plastic is better for several reasons...easy to cosmetically fix. They have solvnts that is you crack teh case...you can glue it and fill in the crack with material that will seal the crack and make it invisible. You can't do that with Aluminum...if you dent the case it has to be machined to fix....who is going to pay for that? If push comes to shove with a plastic case I can go on ebay and buy a new case and put it on myself...can you do that? NO! Premium means premium inside and out...sticking consumer grade components into a fancy case doesn't make it premium...it makes it look premium. And looks can be deceiving. And that si what they are talking about when it comes to cost. Its the cost of the hardware inside...and Apple charges 20% - 40% more on average....and Wintard the article you were referring too was probably this one - http://www.pcworld.c...le/162957/appletaxwhataloadofsillystupidhogwash.html

I think if you need to ever justifiy why you have to buy a Mac..then it means you had doubts when buying it...and that is a general YOU...not any specific person. Whether business rig, creative rig, gaming rig....or general purpose rig...a Windows users will simply say I bought or built my computer for this usage and it is a done deal..and it is an affirmative answer.

I think many buy Macs becaise of the cool factor associated with them. Just an opinion...