[MacHelp]

Why is it that PC folks know the cost of everything, and the value of nothing?

Are PCs cheaper than Macs? Yes. And in some cases less expensive as well. But when you compare like things (and in this case that means computers from established major manufacturers with exact, or close to exact, specifications) you'll find that, in general, the cost differential between Macs and PCs is generally less that $100.

Lets face it, PCs have 100% of the market of computers below $500. Macs have 66% of the market above $1000. The profit on a $500 PC is about 5%. The profit on a $1000 Mac is about 35%. That means that the PC manufacturer has to sell 14 PCs to equal the profit of one Mac sale.

More later -

[WinTard]

DTNick said:

The way I see it, if you think a Mac is worth the price, then you'll buy one. If not, then you won't.

I think you've nailed it on the head DTNick! It's not about which is better. It's about personal preferences.

~~~~~~~~~~
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[WinTard]

Now let me tell you what $1K gets you in terms of state-of-the-art components, that are every bit as high quality as any component you will find in a Mac. Believe it or not!

Those who want to rest content and assured of their delusions, of this is better than that, cheap vs quality... Your loss!

I won't address better over worse, based on personal opinions, BS and FUD.

Here's what I would do with $1000 today.
www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4483696&CatId=333


Barebones > Intel Based Kits > Core i7
ASUS P6T Intel Socket LGA1366 Barebone Kit - Intel Core i7 920, 12GB Corsair DDR3-1333, 1TB SATA2, Clear Side ATX Mid-Tower, 650W

Item Number: B69-1019
Availability: Usually ships within 24 Hours
Price: $949.99

ASUS P6T Intel Socket LGA1366 Barebone Kit
The ASUS P6T barebone kit is ready for extreme performance. The X58-based motherboard that supports both SLI and CrossFireX plus six SATA ports with RAID 0, 1, 5, and 10. This kit includes 12GB of Triple Channel DDR3-1333 memory from Corsair, a 1TB Hitachi SATA II 16MB cache hard drive, a 650 watt power supply and humongous clear side case from Ultra. The mobo also has three PCI-Express 2.0 slots operate at x16/x16/x4 to take full advantage of either 2 or 3 graphics cards, allowing up to four GPUs to be used for maximum graphics performance. Whether you are a serious gamer or want better performance for your multimedia, this kit is ready to help you build rocket-fast computer.

The Ultra power supply is 25% more efficient than its predecessor with the sleek new design and a 135mm cooling fan which reduces heat by 20% and noise by 15 dB. The LSP also comes with sleeved finished power cables to provide better air flow and reduce cable clutter. The Gladiator has 10 drive bays. Four tool-free 5.25" drive bays, one external 3.5", five internal 3.5" bays, and two 120mm fan ports.


Asus P6T LGA 1366 Motherboard
. The ASUS P6T introduces a new era for extreme performance. It is an X58-based motherboard that supports Intel’s new generation extreme performance Core i7 Processors and both SLI and CrossFireX! Six SATA ports with RAID 0, 1, 5, and 10.

* Chipset: Intel X58/ICH10R
* Front Side Bus: Up to 6400 MT/s
* Processor Interface: LGA 1366 / Socket B
* Memory Supported: Triple Channel DDR3-800/1066/1333
* 1600/1800/2000Mhz w/ Overclocking


Intel Core i7 920 Processor BX80601920
The unprecedented performance of the Intel Core i7 processor is made possible by each of the four complete execution cores delivering the full power of Intel Nehalem microarchitecture.

* Processor Speed: Core i7 920 / 2.66GHz
* Additional Technologies: Hyper-Threading
* L3 Cache Size: 8MB
* Processor Socket: LGA1366 / Socket B



2 Sets of Corsair XMS3 Tri Channel 6GB PC10666 DDR3 Memory
This part delivers outstanding performance in the latest generation of X58 DDR3-based motherboards

* Memory Size: 12GB - 2 sets of 6144MB (3 x 2048MB)
* Memory Speed: 1333MHz PC10666
* Memory Type: Triple Channel DDR3

NOTE: Specs below are per set/unit - this kit has 2 sets of memory for a total of 12GB



Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000.B Hard Drive
The DeskstarTM 7K1000.B hard drive provides an exceptional blend of power efficiency and performance making it an ideal solution for power-friendly consumer and commercial.

* Capacity: 1TB
* Interface: Serial ATA-300
* Buffer Memory: 16MB



Ultra LSP650 650-Watt Power Supply
The new LSP is the latest addition to our line-up of professional power supplies. It provides the ultimate amount of power and performance. This series is 25% more efficient than its predecessor with the affordability and quality you have come to expect from Ultra.

* SLI Ready
* 135mm Fan
* Matte black finish

LIFETIME WARRANTY, it dies, you get another one. Free. No time limit.

|h3. Specifications|
|
|| |Form Factor:|ATX|
|
|
| |Processor Class:|Core i7|
|
|
| |Drive Type:|Internal|
|
|
| |Form Factor:|ATX Mid-Tower|
|
|
| |Capacity (GB):|1000|
|
|
| |Compatible Motherboards:|ATX|
| | |Micro ATX|
| | |AT|
| | |Baby AT|
|
|
| |Memory Type:|Triple Channel DDR3|
|
|
| |Processor Interface:|LGA1366|
|
|
| |Processor Interface:|LGA1366|
|
|
| |Processors Supported:|Intel Core i7, Intel Core i7 Extreme|
|
|
| |Interface:|SATA 3.0Gb/s|
|
|
| |Memory Size:|3 x 2048MB|
|
|
| |Cache Size:|256KB L2 per Core, 8MB Shared L3|
|
|
| |Bezel Type:|Swing Out|
|
|
| |Side Panel Type:|Clear, Vented|
|
|
| |Bus Speed:|4.8 GT/s|
|
|
| |Interface Type:|SATA|
|
|
| |Additional Technologies:|HyperThreading Technology|
| | |SLI Ready, CrossFireX Ready, Intel QuickPath Interconnect|
|
|
| |Processor Speed:|Ci7 920 / 2.66GHz|
|
|
| |Spindle Speed (RPM):|7200|
|
|
| |Buffer Memory:|16MB|
|
|
| |Memory Speed:|1333MHz PC10666|
|
|
| |Additional Technologies:|Hyper-Threading|
| | |MMX|
| | |SSE|
| | |SSE2|
| | |SSE3|
| | |32/64-bit|
| | |SSE4.1|
| | |SSE4.2|
|
|
| |Power Supply:|650 W|
|
|
| |Material:|Steel|
|
|
| |Fan:|Included|
|
|
| |Special Features:|Tool-Free Drive Bays|
|
|
| |Memory CAS Latency:|9-9-9-24|
|
|
| |Pins:|240|
|
|
| |Data Transfer Rate on Serial ATA:|Up to 3000 Mb/sec|
|
|
| |Form Factor:|3.5"|
|
|
| |Northbridge:|Intel X58|
|
|
| |External 5.25" Drive Bays:|4|
|
|
| |Southbridge:|Intel ICH10R|
|
|
| |External 3.5" Drive Bays:|1|
|
|
| |Internal 3.5" Drive Bays:|5|
|
|
| |Expansion Slots:|7|
|
|
| |Number of Slots:|6|
|
|
| |Number of Pins:|240-Pin|
|
|
| |Front USB Ports:|2|
|
|
| |Front FireWire Ports:|1|
|
|
| |Maximum Memory Supported:|4GB - 32bit|
| | |12GB - 64bit|
|
|
| |Memory Supported:|1066MHz DDR3|
| | |1333MHz DDR3|
| | |1600MHz DDR3 (OverClocking)|
| | |1800MHz DDR3 (OverClocking)|
| | |2000MHz DDR3 (OverClocking)|
| | |Triple Channel Supported|
|
|
| |Front Audio Ports:|2|
|
|
| |Max. Memory Supported Per Slot:|2GB|
|
|
| |Channels:|8 Channels|
|
|
| |120mm Fan Ports:|2|
|
|
| |120mm Fans Included:|None|
|
|
| |Depth:|19.5"|
|
|
| |Width:|7.5"|
|
|
| |Height:|17"|
|
|
| |LAN Type:|10/100/1000Mbps Gigabit|
|
|
| |RAID Modes:|0|
| | |1|
| | |10|
| | |5|
|
|
| |PCI Slots:|2|
|
|
| |PCI Express X1 Slots:|1|
|
|
| |PCI Express X16 Slots:|3 - (PCIe 2.0)|
|
|
| |PS/2 Keyboard Connectors:|1|
|
|
| |PS/2 Mouse Connectors:|1|
|
|
| |USB Ports:|12|
|
|
| |USB Rear Panel Ports:|6|
|
|
| |USB Onboard Headers:|3 - (expandable to 6 USB ports)|
|
|
| |FireWire Ports:|1|
|
|
| |LAN Ports:|1|
|
|
| |IDE Headers:|1|
|
|
| |FDD Headers:|1|
|
|
| |Serial ATA 3.0Gb/s Headers:|6|
|
|
| |ATX Power Connectors:|1 24-Pin Connector|
|
|
| |PC Power Connectors:|1 - 8 Pin|
|
|
| |S/PDIF Connectors:|1 - Coaxial, 1 - Optical|
|

Operating System:
Windows 7 Ultimate x64 beta (free)
Centos Enterprise Linux x64 (free)

Outperforms in specifications, price, and in reality: comparable top of the line Apple Mac Pro
>

[WinTard]

Now let's start upgrading this state-of-the-art barebones kit.Since we're building a system to outperform the top-of-the-line Apple Mac Pro.


http://www.tigerdire...73&Sku=P450-264
XFX GeForce GTX 260 Black Edition Video Card - 896MB DDR3, PCI Express 2.0 x16, SLI Ready, (dual Link) Dual DVI, HDTV, VGA Support, FREE Far Cry 2 Game
Price: 199.99

XFX GeForce GTX 260 Black Edition Video Card
The XFX GeForce GTX 260 Black Edition graphics card rips through DirectX 10 games at blazing fast frame rates and enables realistic physical motion and massively destructible environments with NVIDIA's new PhysX. technology. And that's not all.the XFX GeForce GTX 260 graphics card also supports extreme HD (2560x1600) resolutions, and gives your system the power of up to 216 multi-threaded processor cores, offloading the most intensive processing tasks from your CPU to your Graphics Processing Unit (GPU).

|h3. Specifications|
|
|| |GPU/VPU:|NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260|
|
|
| |Additional Features:|HDCP Enabled|
| | |DirectX 10|
| | |OpenGL 2.1|
| | |PCI Express 2.0|
| | |Game Physics Capable|
| | |SLI Ready (3-Way Support)|
| | |Shader Model 4.0, Nvidia CUDA Technology|
|
|
| |Video Card Profile:|Double|
|
|
| |Video Memory:|896MB|
|
|
| |Memory Type:|DDR3|
|
|
| |Memory Interface:|448-bit|
|
|
| |Stream Processors:|216|
|
|
| |Core Clock:|666 MHz|
|
|
| |Memory Clock:|2300 MHz|
|
|
| |Shader Clock:|1404 MHz|
|
|
| |Interface Type:|PCI Express 2.0|
|
|
| |Interface Speed:|x16|
|
|
| |Connector(s):|HDTV|
| | |Dual DVI (Dual Link)|


http://www.tigerdire...0&Sku=P725-3064
Pioneer BDR-202BK Retail Blu-ray Disc Writer - 4x BD-R, 2x BD-RE, 8x DVD?R Burn, 2x DVD+R DL, SATA - OEM
Price: 209.99

Pioneer BDR202BK Blu-ray Disc Writer
Immerse yourself in high-definition viewing and watch movies like never before. The BDR-202 Blu-ray Disc/DVD/CD Writer is the next generation Blu-ray Disc writer from Pioneer. Professional users can test and author high-definition Blu-ray Disc content while also delivering the ability for high-capacity data storage. The drive can read BDROM discs, read/write single layer BD-R and BD-RE discs, read DVD-ROM, and read/write most DVD and CD recordable media formats. Whether you want to record Blu-Ray discs or standard DVDs, you?ll enjoy crystal clear content to share with your family and friends.

The BDR-202 offers many industry-leading technologies including:

* 4x maximum writing speed on BD-R media
* High Storage Capacity: 25Gbytes on single layer Blu-ray Disc media (BD-R & BD-RE)
* Dual lens optical pickup can read/write to most Blu-ray Disc, DVD, and CD media
* Low vibration mechanism design allows high writing accuracy


|h3. Specifications|
|
|| |BD-R Write Speed:|4x|
|
|
| |BD-RE Write Speed:|2X|
|
|
| |BD Read Speed:|2X|
|
|
| |DVD+R Write Speed:|8X|
|
|
| |DVD+RW Rewrite Speed:|4x|
|
|
| |DVD-R Write Speed:|8X|
|
|
| |DVD-RW Rewrite Speed:|4x|
|
|
| |DVD Read Speed:|8X|
|
|
| |Color:|Black|
|
|
| |Length:|7.8"|
|
|
| |Width:|5.83"|
|
|
| |Height:|1.67"|
|
|
| |Weight:|2.16 lbs.|
|
|
| |Load Type:|Tray|
|
|
| |Interface Type:|SATA|
|
|
| |Enclosure Type:|Internal|
|
|
| |Compatible Writable Media:|DVD+R|
| | |DVD-RW DL|
| | |DVD+RW|
| | |DVD-R|
| | |DVD+R DL|
| | |DVD-R DL|
| | |BD-R, BD-RE|

Total so far: $950 $200 $210 = $1360

Heck, at that price, one would be foolish not to go SLI and add a second identical video card for $200

Total so far: Total so far: $950 $200 $210 + $200 = $1560

[WinTard]

Now for the educational value, craftsmanship, and satisfaction of putting something together by yourself, my 13 yr old can do this in roughly two hours. Just for the fun of it!

And loading any OS for the PC, about 30 minutes per OS. Remember they are FREE. (Windows 7 beta and CentOS that is)

Oh just for the heck of it, why not, toss in OS X for another $99.
http://www.pcworld.c...y.html?id=10230
>

Total cost so far: $1560 + 100 = $1660.

The experience and coolness, is PRICELESS!

Now let's compare value as per the title of this thread:
|Apple Mac Pro 4 core|Windows 4 core|
|$2499|$1660|
|2.66GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon "Nehalem" processor|Intel Core i7 920 / 2.66GHz Quad-Core Processor BX80601920 "Nehalem"|
|3GB (three 1GB) memory|12GB (2) Sets of Corsair XMS3 Tri Channel 6GB PC10666 DDR3 Memory (6) x 2048MB|
|640GB hard drive|1TB Serial ATA-300 7200 RPM 16MB Buffer Memory: 16MB|
|NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 with 512MB|(2) NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260 with 896MB DDR3 total 1792MB|
|18x double-layer SuperDrive|Pioneer BDR-202BK Retail Blu-ray Disc Writer - 4x BD-R, 2x BD-RE, 8x DVD?R Burn, 2x DVD+R DL, SATA|
|Overclock NO|Overclock to 2000MHz bus|
|OS X|Windows 7 Ultimate x64, Centos Enterprise Linux 5.2 x64, OS X|

|Apple Mac Pro 8 core|Windows dual 4 core|
|$3299|$3320|
|(2)2.66GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon "Nehalem" processor|(2)Intel Core i7 920 / 2.66GHz Quad-Core Processor BX80601920 "Nehalem"|
|6GB (six 1GB) memory|24GB (4) Sets of Corsair XMS3 Tri Channel 6GB PC10666 DDR3 Memory (12) x 2048MB|
|640GB hard drive|2TB Serial ATA-300 7200 RPM 16MB Buffer Memory: 16MB X 2|
|NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 with 512MB|(4) NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260 with 896MB DDR3 total 3584MB|
|18x double-layer SuperDrive|(2)Pioneer BDR-202BK Retail Blu-ray Disc Writer - 4x BD-R, 2x BD-RE, 8x DVD?R Burn, 2x DVD+R DL, SATA|
|Overclock NO|(2)Overclock to 2000MHz bus|
|OS X|Windows 7 Ultimate x64, Centos Enterprise Linux 5.2 x64, OS X|

Comparisons? Incomparable PERIOD. Not even in the same class. Any which way you look at it.

Welcome to the real PC World of true enthusiasts who understand enough that a 13 yr old (raised by a WinTard(ed) technocrat and purist) can put this together in a mere two hours (by himself). And in all humility, without gloating, raised in a family that can afford two of these tomorrow on the spot. Simply because we're passionate people about what we believe in.

~~~~~~~~~~
Quality is never expensive.

Your premium brand had better be delivering something special, or it's not going to get the business.
~ Warren Buffett

Money talks, BS walks...

Risk comes from not knowing what you're doing.
~ Warren Buffett

What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
~ Oscar Wilde (Irish Poet, Novelist, Dramatist and Critic, 1854-1900)

Price is what you pay. Value is what you get.
~ Warren Buffett

I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.
~ Confucius

Energy follows thought. We can strive towards but never exceed what we can imagine and believe in.
~ Sci

Those who think outside the box, see things differently...

[batwing]

WinTard, you r simply the best, but you know... you wasted too much of your energy with a very well done report that "even a caveman" can read and understand.. and then... read "MacCrap" replay... and you understand why try to be educational with real facts it s just a wasting of time and energy.

This debate is over and we are NOT saying which one is better than the other.... we are just saying what you can get for an amount of money, period.

People happy with MAC has to stay happy with MAC, as well for people happy with PC Compatible, which for educated IIT people, not necessarely means Windows, because Linux is out there too (for free).

[villanim]

I do not know why you would not compare the Ideapad, as the original premise was to compare what $1,000 would purchase you. You later change it to similary equipped systems. That Ideapad 530 is being sold for 100 less at my local computer superstore configured with 4GB of ram, 320GB hard drive, GeFroce 9300M graphics card not to mention integrated web cam with facial recognition. You should revisit this another time and jsut compare what $1000 or less will purchase.

[asiafish]

First off, the $1000 price point was about 13" laptops, not desktops. $1000 desktops are a whole different animal, and except for the all-in-one iMac represent an area where Apple chooses not to compete at all. There is a gaping hole in the Apple desktop lineup between the Mini (a boutique machine designed for those who value silence and size more than performance) and the Mac Pro, which unlike the desktop you built using high-end consumer processors (i7), runs MUCH more expensive SERVER grade Xeon processors. Performance is comparable for many tasks, but speed isn't the only factor that went into Apple's (or Dell's, or IBM's) specification of a server-grade processor.

It is easy to compare prices in an area where Apple doesn't compete and say Apple is too expensive. Its like comparing economy cars and complaining that the BMW 128i (their cheapest car) is overpriced because the Kia Rio will get better gas mileage and seat 5 instead of 4. They are aimed at completely different consumers and serve a completely different purpose.

Comparing the $1000 laptops, the MacBook offered lower specs in terms of hard drive and ram for the same price. The nVidia integrated graphics are vastly superior to the Intel integrated graphics on one Windows machine, and inferior to the nVidia discreet graphics on the other. All of the machines were within $100 of one another, and all were within 1/2 pound of one another. The review said nothing about thickness or design. How much is a slot-loading optical drive worth compared to a tray loading optical drive? both have advantages, tray is cheaper, which do you want? How does the build quality compare? Which OS version comes with the Windows machines? Is it home premium instead of business or ultimate? This doesn't matter if you plan to use it at home, but what if you want to connect to a domain? OS X can be bound to an active directory domain with little effort, but home versions of Windows cannot.

How much is MS Works worth? How much is iLife worth? Is Works good enough for the PC user or do you need a full copy of Office? Is the $79 iWork package good enough for the Mac user, or again is a full copy of Office needed? Can either user get bye with a free office suite, which incidentally is the same price (free) on both platforms?

Now instead of comparing in a market where Apple doesn't compete at all like $1000 tower systems or netbooks. Look at $1300 laptops, $1500 all-in-one desktops, $2000 laptops, but stick to a market in which Apple actually competes, and the prices are comparable for retail Macs and retail systems by first-tier venders. Do it yourself is usually cheaper and with more choices, but of course you don't get the (legal) choice of OS X as your OS. If you don't care about running OS X then its not an issue to be considered, but if you insist on OS X then it immediately disqualifies any non-Apple hardware.

[villanim]

Where do you get your figures from, you just pull them out of a hat? Mac does not have 66% of the market above $1000 as I know of no company that spends less than that on a laptop purchase running WINDOWS! I just purchased 600 laptops for my firm and the average cost was $1400 including docking stations, keyboards, mice and 21" wide screen LCD's from Lenovo. The price of the laptops by themselves would have been $1400 but when you purchase in bulk with other components you get a nice discount, something you do not get from Apple. And this whole one is better the other is BS. They both have their pro's and con's. Macs are easier to install/uninstall software on but have a steeper learning curve when it comes to learning how to use the software. Windows is the most secure OS (OS X is number 3) but can be more difficult to get your software and hardware to play nicely with. Is this MS fault, no as they make thier OS backward compatible to work with just about every software and hardware out there. They do not control the pie like Apple does, which explains the expense of a Mac as well. Good luck replacing an out of warranty component on a Mac, as you could purchase a new Windows based pc for the price of an Apple superdrive ($300) and get a good decent laptop for the price of a processor upgrade ($600 and up).

[jjljr]

This is real simple ... computers are like anything else -- You Don't Get What You Don't Pay For. In the short run, Mac's cost more, but in the long run, they really cost less. PC's are like those car ads that say "Base Price $24,000", then add a disclaimer that the car shown in the ad costs $32,000.
Like millions of people, I use a PC at work every day and a Mac at home. I use my Mac everyday at home, which is why I know the slight up-front premium is a long-term bargain. I paid slightly more for my Honda Accord than I would have for a Ford Focus, and I'm convinced that I got a long-term bargain. If you bought a PC instead of a Mac strictly based on the up-front cost, then you probably drive a Yugo, too.
Everyone knows someone who's switched from the PC to the Mac, but it's pretty hard to find someone who's gone the other direction. Maybe all of us who did aren't very-bright with our money -- but I doubt it.

[Islandgirl]

A friend of mine was very happy for a brand new 22" I-MAC he got...

There is no 22-inch iMac. There is one 20-inch model and then the size jumps to 24 inches.
The 20-inch model is $1,199 with a 2.66GHz processor, which I don't think would qualify as "a lower end dual core." It ships with 2GB of RAM, a 320GB hard drive and NVIDIA GeForce 9400M graphics.
The next size up is the entry 24-inch iMac with a 2.66GHz processor, 640GB hard drive, 4 GB of RAM and NVIDIA GeForce 9400M graphics. It retails for $1,499.
You can find both of these models cheaper online and can configure them with different RAM, processor or hard drive choices. Neither of these computers, especially the 24-inch iMac, sound "marginal, or have "crappy hardware," and neither is "somewhere above $1500."
The next most expensive iMac has a 2.93GHz processor, 640GB hard drive, 4GB of RAM and a NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 with 256MB memory. It retails for $1,799, though cheaper through non-Apple sources, and doesn't appear to be "marginal" or "crappy," either.

FYI, the NIVIDIA 9400M greatly outperforms Intel integrated graphics and runs Photoshop just fine, according to what I've read from people who have tested it.

Of course, folks who build their own computers are never going to be interested in an all-in-one. So it doesn't surprise me that you dismiss iMacs as "it is very pretty anyway!"

[MacHelp]

Apple?s market share of PCs over $1,000 hits 66%! Who says? See below:

From Computerworld! See here - http://www.computerw...ticleId=9087058

From Apple Watch - http://blogs.eweek.c...nt/channel/macsdefywindows-gravity.html

CNNMoney (Fortune Mag) - http://apple20.blogs...rce=yahoo_quote

[villanim]

Mac's cost of ownership is actually quite high,a s for one, you do not have an Office suite included on purchase. You either have to purchase Microsoft Office for Mac if you want full compatibility) or download openoffice.org and hope you do not have any problems. Also, replacement parts are much more costly than their PC brethren and do tend not to last as long. I own both a Windows and a Mac. I have a G5 and a home built PC dual booting Vista and Windows 7. My Mac's superfine died and I cannot go to the store and purchase a replacement like I can for my PC. I have to get the replacement from Apple at a cost of $300. My DVD-RW for my PC cost me all of $45 for a Plethora drive. Also, when I did own an Apple Macbook Pro, I did find the craftsmanship to be good but the LCD's more easily subject to scratch than my Thinkpad and the components more prone to failure on the Mac. I just think Apple builds in obsolescence in their systems. My PC is user upgradeable while Macs are not. My PC can be upgraded to run the latest and graded OS and software while my G5 cannot (unless you considering purchasing a new system and upgrade).

[WinTard]

Yes but consider that for less than $1000, outperforming the $2500 entry-level Mac Pro isn't a small feat. Perhaps explaining why expensive PC's don't exist? Simply due to thriving competition? Thus your rationale that a good performing PC should cost more is nullified.

Now what is performance and quality? To me performance is a linearly quantifiable and measurable object. Numbers don't lie. And quality is the ratio afforded by the dependability versus the cost you had to pay to get it.

All the PC systems I have hand built over the past twenty years, all have survived an average of seven years without any single hardware trouble at all. I still have a 1998 Dell Latitude Cpi laptop, functioning like new. And a Dell Inspiron 300m from 2004, like brand new. And never have troubles with my handcrafted systems either. No BS. To me that's quality.

And to put an end to mere unsubstantiated FUD, I can assure you I will have less troubles with my hand selected component by component and handcrafted with love and passion systems, than any mass-producer can provide. PERIOD. But feel free to believe what you want, and I shall do likewise.

To make a parallel, which is substantiated by independent sources, Toyota and Honda provides not only better value, performance and quality for the dollar than any Mercedes or BMW. Also by market share, Toyota is #1 in the world, and also twice the size of Mercedes. Even Honda is larger than Mercedes. And both these companies have R&D budgets, unmatched in the rest of the industry. Although high-performance, BMW isn't even in the same league. Both these prestige brands only compete on the exclusivity scale, nothing else. But let's not get into car debates onto PCWorld...

Sources of subtantiation? Most car magazines, websites, and http://ConsumersReports.org, a NON PROFIT organization established in the 1930's. And also confirmed by their market shares...

~~~~~~~~~~
Price is what you pay; Value is what you get.
~ Warren Buffett

And there is no direct correlation between absolute price and absolute quality or absolute performance either.

[Chris32]

MRcap,
"The total cost over the life of a Pc is more expensive then a MAC".......What?........... Where is your data to support this? You have none!!! ....Please spare me the BS..... its a matter of maintenance whether Mac or PC. If you keep your computer maintained then you should in theory have little to no OS problems. Have you ever had to take you Mac to a Mac store to get repaired.... Do you know the turn around time they have? That also can be a factor in your theory right? (time = Money) Your argument has no data to support it. Mac resale values where good when they had the PPC's but now that intel has the contract, the Mac will not hold the same value as they used to because if Mac wants to stay competitive performance wise then they will have to refresh there line faster which in turn drives down the value of older macs. Don't even get started on telling me how to do my job....You have no idea on what the issue really was but since you decided to take a stab ill share. Problem was not client related but was client and server related. and affected about 85% (400 users) of our users the other users happend to be the working ones that we fully tested....also we waited a good month before the update was pushed out. Maybe rather than blaming me you should look at why Mac didnt bother to test the update before they pushed it out, rather they blamed it on some fonts that were installed. Trust me i wasnt the only school in the nation that had this same problem. And if MACS were such a great value then tell me MRCap why is it that 80% of the worlds businesses run windows? Becasue yes there cheaper and they can do everything a MAC can do plus more. Macs Still don't' have the application support and flexibility that MS does period. ---Regards,

[veggiedude]

I use Macs at home, PC's in the office. After all these years, Windows till can't handle TEXT properly. I constantly fumble with trying to work with text in any Windows application. How can that be? Will Windows 7 fix that?

[WinTard]

veggiedude said:

I use Macs at home, PC's in the office. After all these years, Windows till can't handle TEXT properly. I constantly fumble with trying to work with text in any Windows application. How can that be? Will Windows 7 fix that?

Fix what? All Windows handled TEXT properly since day one. Even DOS handled TEXT properly. Perhaps you should explain what your problem is? Maybe you are one of the exceptions?

[Chris32]

VeggieDude,

Yes please explain why you are an idiot or should I say....... I-DIOT

[Chris32]

Macs are Intel X86 now....Shouldnt that classify them as a PC? LOL... Crap a gave Microsoft an idea for there next commercial.....

[Mrcap]

Eight Financial Reasons Why You Should Use Mac OS

http://www.cio.com/a...le/127050/EightFinancialReasonsWhyYouShouldUseMacOS?page=2