[rasmasyean]

Well, THAT was dumb. Why the heck are they excluding it now while everyone else seems to be increasing it and it's becoming sort a standard.
Or maybe it's mostly Asians who use it and it's not that popular in the US?
Or maybe it's because they don't want people buing DVD-RAM camcorders and favor the firewire ones???

[asiafish]

rasmasyean said:

You are correct, I'll give you that one. I am a zealot. A zealot about objective standpoints based on facts. And he who twists those facts for whatever end shall be struck down upon thee by the Hand of Turing!

Considering you keep ranting about how "equivalent" Mac software is to the PC because you didn't know about MacOffice criticisms and nerfed Office features...then you keep defending the point that it's still "practically equivalent" anyway after finding out the truth. And you make claims that equivalent ultra-portable and business class PC's are similar prices to Macs...even as PC prices go down so that can't ever be true...yet you still keep saying that and bringing up various other "features" that somehow helps defy this mathematical impossibility...among other things Who's the real zealot? lol

What are you smoking? I never defended it, and pointed out that if you want VBA you need the older 2004 version and if you want Access you are simply out of luck. I know for a fact that the only things I said about Mac Office is that it works exactly as well FOR MY WORK, which doesn't need VBA or Access.

And I never said that Macs weren't more expensive than PCs, just that the price gap isn't nearly as large as zealots like you put it out because you must compare premium to premium. My brand-new ThinkPad T400 is more powerful than my MacBook Pro, and was a lot cheaper. It wasn't, however, priced in the ridiculously low range of the consumer-grade models that PC zealots like you and TechieXP put out as equivalent. Its retail price was the same as the MacBook Pro, and with the Lenovo sales and coupons I bought it for a lot less.

[asiafish]

rasmasyean said:

It's more like Jeep vs. Toyota. If you don't need to bang it up they will be the same.

I disagree.

[asiafish]

rasmasyean said:

It makes me nervous to use a metal laptop. I keep thinking it will shock me on day or I will static charge it and it will relay to a part and destroy it. But the aluminum they use is machined (carved) from a block so it's a lot more expensive than one that is "stamped and punched" from sheet metal. The Sheet metal ones are usually stronger incidentally because you have some type of "forging" going on. Like how they use to make swords. But stamping can't yield the precision and consistency of machining. But aluminum is stronger than most plastics that they would use in a laptop at least. But when it bends, it doesn't bounce back like plastic. There are some carbon fiber laptops.

Then you think wrong.

[asiafish]

(removed for personal attack)

This message was edited for a personal attack against Community Standards. Please refer to the Community Standards: http://www.pcworld.c...community.html.
Message was edited by: smax013

[TechieXP]

Wow that is a very good point. All I can say is Intel did if for them. Apple paid Intel to reduce the size of it cpu just for the air. But what you said is perfect. Why would a mfr spend money to make special better hardware just for Apple...? Intel can certainly afford too...so could ATI and Nvidia....but I think the list gets pretty scarce from there.

The Mac is x86...it is no different inside then any other. It just like the difference in other brands.OSX simply looks for something found inside Macs that allows it to boot, which is missing from ordinary pc's to prevent them from booting OSX.

But i am sure Apple engineered a few tricks OEM's haven't thought of because I do know they found a way to cure many of the bottlenecks that plaque pc's. So I am sure whoever MFR's the boards they have something a lil different. But its all the same components brands. Still makes you wonder about some of the cost.

[asiafish]

rasmasyean said:

Well, THAT was dumb. Why the heck are they excluding it now while everyone else seems to be increasing it and it's becoming sort a standard.
Or maybe it's mostly Asians who use it and it's not that popular in the US?

What does race have to do with computer components? As for DVD-RAM, it was first introduced as a consumer technology on the Mac, and still there. Every Mac currently shipping has one. By the way, I'm not Asian, and I live in sunny Southern California. (edited for personal attack)

Quote

Or maybe it's because they don't want people buing DVD-RAM camcorders and favor the firewire ones???

Apple could care less what camcorder you use.

(edited for personal attack)

This message was edited for personal attacks that are against Community Standards. Please refer to the Community Standards: http://www.pcworld.c...community.html.
Message was edited by: smax013

[asiafish]

TechieXP said:

Wow that is a very good point. All I can say is Intel did if for them. Apple paid Intel to reduce the size of it cpu just for the air. But what you said is perfect. Why would a mfr spend money to make special better hardware just for Apple...? Intel can certainly afford too...so could ATI and Nvidia....but I think the list gets pretty scarce from there.

The Mac is x86...it is no different inside then any other. It just like the difference in other brands.OSX simply looks for something found inside Macs that allows it to boot, which is missing from ordinary pc's to prevent them from booting OSX.

But i am sure Apple engineered a few tricks OEM's haven't thought of because I do know they found a way to cure many of the bottlenecks that plaque pc's. So I am sure whoever MFR's the boards they have something a lil different. But its all the same components brands. Still makes you wonder about some of the cost.

Its called EFI, something designed by Intel and supported by both Apple and Microsoft. Five years from now, when Windows 8 shows up, all recent PCs will use EFI instead of BIOS, its just a newer and better technology.

[quackadilly]

Umm, DVD-RAM was introduced ON THE MAC. The Power Mac G4 that I bought A DECADE AGO had a DVD-RAM drive.



Any chance on getting a source for that "fact" ??? I can't seem to find a reference for that statement.

[quackadilly]

:D Thank you.



Someone please show me where the current Apple hardware differs vastly from PC hardware. Until I can be shown irrefutable proof that Apple gets special hardware, I will be under the understanding that they use the same components other than the special, futuristic, amazing slot loading cd drive that drives the cost of a Mac up 30%. (We all know it's not the OS......seriously, if it was, that price would make MS OSs look like off brand mac and cheese.)

[MarioJP]

quackadilly said:

:D Thank you.





Someone please show me where the current Apple hardware differs vastly from PC hardware. Until I can be shown irrefutable proof that Apple gets special hardware, I will be under the understanding that they use the same components other than the special, futuristic, amazing slot loading cd drive that drives the cost of a Mac up 30%. (We all know it's not the OS......seriously, if it was, that price would make MS OSs look like off brand mac and cheese.)

don't apple Motherboards use pc enthusiast boards like Foxconn?? thats what i heard?

[MarioJP]

[quote name='asiafish']
>

TechieXP said:

> Wow that is a very good point. All I can say is Intel did if for them. Apple paid Intel to reduce the size of it cpu just for the air. But what you said is perfect. Why would a mfr spend money to make special better hardware just for Apple...? Intel can certainly afford too...so could ATI and Nvidia....but I think the list gets pretty scarce from there.
>
> The Mac is x86...it is no different inside then any other. It just like the difference in other brands.OSX simply looks for something found inside Macs that allows it to boot, which is missing from ordinary pc's to prevent them from booting OSX.
>
> But i am sure Apple engineered a few tricks OEM's haven't thought of because I do know they found a way to cure many of the bottlenecks that plaque pc's. So I am sure whoever MFR's the boards they have something a lil different. But its all the same components brands. Still makes you wonder about some of the cost.Its called EFI, something designed by Intel and supported by both Apple and Microsoft. Five years from now, when Windows 8 shows up, all recent PCs will use EFI instead of BIOS, its just a newer and better technology.

Only problem with that is its not taking off well on the pc side for the simple fact that you won't be able to tweak or have access to efi like you can with bios for that matter. Top that off the bios keeps getting revised all the time. With more better features. Well i can't say for the retail pc's but for enthusiasts boards. omg let just say it has soo much that one can do its insane. Whats more on the new bios for upcoming motherboards you have the ability to do a direct flash update from a usb flash drive without ever needing a cd and the old ass ancient floppy. The bios is not going anywhere anytime soon. efi is just to limited.

[quackadilly]

don't apple Motherboards use pc enthusiast boards like Foxconn?? thats what i heard?



Thats my point. Same stuff.

[quackadilly]

When was the last time you saw a FireWire thumb drive? One of the most common peripherals in the world.....dominated by USB.






This sounds very similar to the current Mac vs PC debate:

PC = USB

Mac = PC with a "wow shiny" added in = FireWire



While the FireWire might have better performance, it might never be fully utilized by the user. The FireWire is obscure and rarely used by the masses. USB is the prominent technology which everyone knows and uses.



Is USB better? It depends on the metric. Speed.....no. Versatility.....yes. Technological acceptance.....yes.







So..."what technology is more successful?" might be the real question. A great product is usually followed by success. . . . right?

[Evildave]

The electronic Mac components are identical, chip for chip, give or take, in the same way that all software is just ones and zeroes. It's all in what parts you use, and what you do with the parts.
A chassis for their notebooks is milled from a solid block of aluminum is different than a 'normal' notebook PC.
A battery that lasts eight hours in a 17" WUXGA notebook PC is different than a 'normal' 17" notebook PC of the same specs, where if you don't RUN to the power next outlet, you're going to have problems.

A notebook that weighs half as much, and is half as thick as PC notebooks is a huge differnce. Especially lugging it around.

A unique multi-touch (like iPhone) mouse pad. Very different from the little plastic P.o.S. mousepad you get on most notebooks.

Backlit keyboard keys on a solid foundation, excact same layout as their detached keyboards. Not wobbly chicklet keys that pop off when you type.

An LED backlit display that's instant-on and looks gorgeous.

A magnetic power cord that won't pull the computer off the desk. Go try it.

The OS software is OSX - NOT Micro$uck Windoze. This is an enormous difference. The difference between Micro$uck's ad-hoc, insecure, bloated, crawling Windoze OS that you need a whole heap of 'security' bandaids for, versus and a proven POSIX foundation that has stood the test of time.

The difference between a Mac and a cobbled-together PC are enormous. Who is at fault when the video acts up? Is it the graphics card manufacturer? Is it the motherboard manufacturer? Is it Micro$uck's driver? Is it Joe-Bob in his garage who sells cheap computers he cobbles together from salvage over a web site that looks professional?

Who's covering your PC's warranty? Could be anybody. Could be nobody. Especially with all those cheap-tastic PCs and notebooks that come with a place to stick a brand sticker on, and get resold by dozens of companies, and warranted by anonymous service contracts. Not that any of these warranty services will cover PCs made by some manufacturers. After all, it's breakdown insurance, and if it's a lemon, the insurers won't touch it. PC companies that package up cheap PCs go out of business routinely. If they directly covere the warranty, you as much as have no warranty.

[rasmasyean]

bq. asiafish wrote: rasmasyean wrote: Well, THAT was dumb. Why the heck are they excluding it now while everyone else seems to be increasing it and it's becoming sort a standard. Or maybe it's mostly Asians who use it and it's not that popular in the US? What does race have to do with computer components? As for DVD-RAM, it was first introduced as a consumer technology on the Mac, and still there. Every Mac currently shipping has one. By the way, I'm not Asian, and I live in sunny Southern California. Shows how stupid you look when you make blind assumptions, but then, you do that a lot, and it clearly shows. Or maybe it's because they don't want people buing DVD-RAM camcorders and favor the firewire ones??? Apple could care less what camcorder you use. Dud, did you ever hear of anger-management classes? Why don't you enroll in one before a judge somewhere orders you to.
Asian isn't exactly a specific race. It's an area of the world. Incidentally, it's an area of the world where the majority of computers are made. And an area of the world where more DVD-RAM recorders are made as well...as well as used a lot more when many of us were still stuck on VHS and plain DVD-R. And USA is where most of the Mac market exists as well. And if you wanted to get the latest DVD-RAM speeds, (if you looked for it for your G4 that has it), you would have found out you had to order it from like Japan or something! I think you're the one who has a narrow mind for extrapolating something rediculous like that has something to do with "race"! lol That's funny!

And whaterver Mac you had that has one, not even the Desktops have it now, apparently.
www.apple.com/macpro/specs.html

It sounds to me that you're the one who's "angry". I don't blame you. You offer easily disputable crap that get pissed off because someone can see right through it. And you just keep on going. (removed for personal attack)

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Message was edited by: smax013

[rasmasyean]

Apple hardware difference is likely that they design the shape of the motherboard to fit in their laptops. I mean, if it works with Windows, there's very little they would need to design by conforming to the x86 standard. Why do it? We know they don't make semiconductors. Like 90% of it is made by Asians who likely retool the HP line slightly to fill Mac orders.
I can see them doing a lot during the PowerPC era, but in the Intel era, each component is a specialized field that has companies with over a decade of experience in it.
Firewire is some Apple effort so naturally, they want people to use it and buy firewire products because they would get a cut of profits, etc. But since Apple had a history of being "closed" as everyone knows, that's prolly why it never took off comparatively to the "slower USB". Apple's involvement in the standard maight have made it too restrictive so manufacturers said, "screw that, we'll just go USB". That's the same story of open achitecture making Wintel dominant over PowerMac.

[rasmasyean]

You're right about that trend. But keep in mind that these are internet statistics so it gets more influenced by computers that surf the net more. For example, if you look at the iPhone and BB, you know that there are many more BB's out there, but ppl don't surf the net much on those. This favors the home side also so if you're looking at businesses, I don't think you get a similar curve. In the holiday period, Hitslink even said Macs got a blip because of the vacations and home internet shopping.

[smax013]

Some of these posts are starting to go beyond the line and into personal attacks. Please refrain from the personal attacks and keep the posts on subject. Please keep it civil.

[artzy65]

Incorrect sir... apple does indeed support dvd-ram and blu-ray; and Firewire is not 'useless' on a mac, at least not on my external dvd/cd burner.
BTW, although macs support blu-ray, we don't need it actually: http://news.cnet.com...0077633-37.html

Have a good day ; )
Message was edited by: artzy65