[TechieXP]

:D Oh and lets not forget how many devices can be daisy chained from a USB Hub...last count with USB 2.0...127 devices hooked to one computer...how many can firewire support? As far as I know 1. So many motherboards that you buy come with firewire...yet I have yet to ever even hook up a FW device. Most cameras and phones use a mini-usb cable and it hooks to what...pc fans..USB. Yes USB isn't as fast...so what. Its just like this...I have a Honda you have a Porsche...no matter how fast you are...the speed limit on the highway is still 75...I can do 75 and so can you...You paid 150,000 more than I did...to only go as fast as me? So smart. Just like a Mac...why spend an extra $1500 to only go as fast as me...NO WAIT. If I build my own...I can go faster than you at 1/2 the cost...
If Apple was to ever get the marketshare Windows has and I am alive...i'll kill myself by swallowing n Apple. BTW Apple didn't invent USB or Firewire, but they were the first to sport the connections...much good it did..Windows made better use of it. It start a whole new industry of devices that were common but now didn't need an expensive $30 printer cable...or a $50 SCSI cable...or a $15 Firewire cable...I can use a $3.00 USB cable and it works just as good.

Bluetooth, modems, flash drives, tv tuners, soundcards...and the list just goes on...even external drives use USB over Firewire...and many now sport eSATA which is transferring data at the speed of youe FSB. I am sure that is faster than FW on my PC...where my bus can hit 1333mhz....

Most laptops come with as many as 6 USB connections....and most don't have firewire....And yet Macs are better than PC's? And MSFT gets ragged for not following standards. I would say Windows is most lenient to technology even to its own demise...

Most of the new tech toys Macs lack...no blu-ray or hdmi...they may not be important to everyone...but they are important to someone...look how many have jumped on to HDMI. HDMI is almost the next USB...it totally digital...carrying both audio and video...home theatre...hdtv's...digital cable...and so many more are using HDMI....Yet the technologically more expensive Mac doesn't offer either...and teh only thing great about them is they are made of aluminum...lol

The name is PC...as in Personal Computer...I want to personally make it do what matters to me. It doesn't say Steve's Computer. And just because it says Apple...once I buy it...it is no longer yours.

I just gave you your undeniaable proof of why Macs are different from a standard PC.Standard PC's aren't limited in what they can do...only proprietory ones are...That is why MSFT dropped IBM in the middle of OS/2. Bec IBM want to do that expensive micro-channel hardware and other propritory stuff. MSFT wanted the best OS in the world to have an open platforms. So it can grow and not be hampered. And for that accomplishment...the jealous bashers have to resort to fowl play to try to show up the big boy. But taking facts and exaggerating them...or making a mockery...or attcking with bad software in the form of viruses and malware and spyware. Maybe it will all go away when MSFT is gone. Which is exactly why hackers don't write viruses for other OS's even if they are wide open...and if they were number one...and were hated as much as MSFT is...they would have to endure the same.

[smax013]

WinTard said:

Firewire is a market flop.

Not sure that I would call it a "market flop", but I will agree that it has lost the battle with USB.

Whether you consider it a "market flop" kind of depends a little bit on which market you look at. If you look at the low data bandwidth device market (i.e. mice, keyboards, etc), then it never competed in that market. Firewire was never intended as a low bandwidth device connection, while USB was. Firewire was intended as a high bandwidth connection, which initially USB (as in version 1) was not. Thus, at first, Firewire was meant for digital video and connecting external drives and such, while USB was more aimed at things like printers, mice, and keyboards. The release of USB 2.0 change that. It could handle high bandwidth connections. And that is when the real direct competition started.

In the case of the external hard drive market, it is kind of a market flop. For a while, it was winning in this market. But, for a long time, you would only see USB 2.0 ports and no Firewire ports on Windows computers. And thus, it became much more common to see people buy external USB drives, even though a Firewire connection is technically a better choice. The better technical choice does not always win out. Add in that Firewire never really had a "horse" in the flash/thumb drive market. But, both will likely lose to eSATA unless they "up their game" in their next versions.

About the only market where Firewire is not yet a market flop is the digital video market, but it is starting to lose out here as well. Video professionals still prefer Firewire over USB 2.0, but at the consumer level, it is getting harder and harder to find Firewire equipped video cameras.

Quote

Virtually no acceptance, or ubiquity. Not necessarily technically. But in terms of interoperability. Even Macs use USB.

I would say availability rather than interoperability. Both USB and Firewire are completely interoperable from computer to computer...IF the computer has that correct ports. Thus, Firewire's problem is not one of interoperability, but of that fact that Firewire port are many times not found on Windows computers (this has become less of a case in recent years...it is a lot easier to find a Firewire port on a Windows computer than it used to be...many laptops have one and it is even more prevalent on desktop...the motherboard that I choose for my latest build had it).

But, the point is a perfectly valid one...you can find USB ports on ANY computer (unless it is a VERY strange computer), while that is not the case with Firewire. And that is why USB has won the battle.

Quote

And forget the next version of Firewire, or USB numbers. They will both match performance as required. As for connecting external drives or high-speed devices, eSATA is the way to go.

Very true. eSATA is definitely the way to go in the future. And that is why I know use it, rather than Firewire, for my external drives when I can. Both of my desktops backup/external drives are being moved to eSATA.

Quote

You don't want to supply power to the external high-performance device anyways. Especially not from a battery powered laptop.

It all depends on your particular application.

I agree 100% that a bus powered external drive is a complete waste with a desktop...after all, a desktop will be plugged into a wall, which means that there should easily be a power plug for the drive within reach. About the only reason to use a bus powered drive with a desktop is if you want small portable drive that is WAY larger than a flash/thumb drive OR you have such a drive for your laptop and would like to also use it with your desktop.

The story changes quite a bit with a laptop. Most people choose a bus powered portable drive for use with a laptop because A) it is smaller and lighter and more portable than a desktop drive and B) not all laptop users use their laptop near a power plug but still need the backup ability or added storage space of a portable drive...and desktop drives with their own power supply don't work so well when there is not a power plug near by. Now, if you mainly use your laptop like a desktop, then a desktop drive should be fine.

[rasmasyean]

What you're thinking of is "polishing".
Machining from a block wastes more material and takes more time to carve it out because heat/cutting tool/part handling, etc. impose limits. And prolly unless they decide to build the infrastructure for robots to place the "blank" and remove it and put it on a polishing station, and dry the coolant all over it...people have to handle it manually.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=fc43LpuwHek
Stamping you can do by some presses punching out some sheets or rolls of metal and feeding them via conveyor into a like 50 ton forge that just squashes it into shape. I'm sure they finish off the edges by light polishing and/or anodize it where all they do is just dip it in some special water reservoir and it comes out colored and surface coated. But it's super fast. and you can smelt all the scrap from the sheets.
Plastic you can just melt a whole bunch and inject it into molds. Very little waste. I'm sure they finish off the edges by even lighter polishing and dunk it in die I guess through some conveyor type process. I think it might take a bit longer for it to cool and harden though. But still cheaper than machining and they just produce a lot of identical molds to keep it going without stopping.

[waldojim]

"Oh and lets not forget how many devices can be daisy chained from a USB Hub...last count with USB 2.0...127 devices hooked to one computer...how many can firewire support? As far as I know 1. So many motherboards that you buy come with firewire...yet I have yet to ever even hook up a FW device. "
Then please do not speak on the subject, no offense but that is flat wrong. Firewire will support up to 63 devices - and like scsi, it has in integrated controller that takes the load off the CPU.
This is not about being the "faster" port, more of what is better suited for a given job. For REAL TIME, video capture and MINIMAL cpu impact, Firewire is choice. For external harddrives/dvd burners/ etc, Pre- E-Sata, Firewire.

And yes apple holds the license to firewire

And yes I have firewire on EVERY PC I own.

"and many now sport eSATA which is transferring data at the speed of youe FSB."
eh? Most eSATA is connected to a controller attached to a 1x PCI-E bus, limited to 250MB/s

"Most of the new tech toys Macs lack...no blu-ray or hdmi...they may not be important to everyone...but they are important to someone...look how many have jumped on to HDMI. HDMI is almost the next USB...it totally digital...carrying both audio and video."
So is display port - and display port has no license fees. DP is very nice in its own way. Just useless until mass support happens...

"The name is PC...as in Personal Computer...I want to personally make it do what matters to me. It doesn't say Steve's Computer. And just because it says Apple...once I buy it...it is no longer yours. "

agreed, all my desktops are home built, for their task, and for that reason

[rasmasyean]

bq. asiafish wote: Oh, aluminum is non-conductive. Evildave wrote: And though aluminum doesn't conduct electricity well, it is marvelous at conducting heat. The whole chassis is one big heat sink.
When are you guys going to quit making up your own reality. Now it has extended it's reach to basic natural sciences.
And you're representing Mac and Linux fanbois...hmmm....I'm not sure they would want you on their side. lol
bq. Aluminum has been used as a conductor in housing applications for cost reasons. It is actually more conductive than copper when compared by unit weight, but it has technical problems related to heat and its coefficient of thermal expansion, which tends to loosen connections over time. http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Electricalconductor]
bq. All metals are conductors... That's the definition of a metal! In [chemistry, a metal (Greek: Metallo, Μ?ταλλο) is a chemical element whose atoms readily lose electrons to form positive ions (cations), and form metallic bonds between other metal atoms and ionic bonds between nonmetal atoms.^[[#cite_note-morty-0]^ Metals are good conductors, making them valuable in electrical appliances and for carrying an electric current over a distance with little energy lost. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal

[TechieXP]

So all you could do was copy and paste a bunch of quotes from Asiafish...
Oh wait aren't those Mac-Libs (Mad-Libs)? Where all you do is take a paragraph that has a few blanks where you can put in any word you want. And they are all fixed to fit the words MSFT and Windows in any sentence using either word...

MSFT Sucks, Windows sucks...see requires no thought.

Anyway...all those things are nice....But what good is it if you can't afford it? When you're on a limited income like most americans you can only buy what you can afford. We all would like to have nice things, but not all of us can't. But you ever notice how all the nice things have so many limitations. That's why HP and Dell are number one and two...they try to give the rest of us very nice computers that do amzing things without costing a whole lot of money. Yes Macs are a cream of the crop model, but most brands have them.

When people see something they want bad enough...they will save their money to buy it...no one is holding out for a Mac bec they don't have to...they can have a PC now that simply works. Looks aren't everything. Some of the richest people in the world are ugly...look at Bill Gates...

Look at the ThinkPad. Unlike the Macbook Pro...ThinkPad has been rated in the top 10 laptops to buy year after year..even after changing owners. How many times has macs made that list. Out of all the top 10 desktops on a given list..again macs barely show up. However when asked which is the best system for editijng video and music, and doing stellar 3d graphics..macs are more desirable...and so should be. And there is a PC that can do it just as good. This is another gap where PC.s have certainly caught up. The only thing that separates our hardware is the OS. And now that line is even smaller bec like any other PC you run Windows.

One thing we have learned here in America...is being unigue isn't always so widely accepted. And some groups sound just like others when it comes to touchy subjects. These special groups are always a niche market and they always have to do whatever to get noticed...even bashing their counterparts for being different. Its a frikkin machine...it job is to do what u tell it to do. As long as it can do what you need no matter which platform you use...ur using it because it works for you. What works for u doesn't work for every1. That is why this is America...I have a right to like as I like. And if you don't like it...you simply don't use it.

How would you like it if you were walking down the street and someone said you sucked because the clothes you have on are cheap because I prefer Levi's and you want to wear Hilfiger. It not better bec you pay more for it...

[WinTard]

While I agree with most of what you say smax013, I said interoperability with this in mind:

USB-2 is virtually available everywhere. Most phones, my old Motorola Razr had a standard USB port. My first, second, third and fourth digital cameras had USB. The BlackBerry Bold 9000 has a standard USB. Even the iPhone 3G has a 'proprietary' bastardized USB, that ends up into a 'real' USB to plug into the charger, or PC / Mac... My Digital camcorder has a USB. My WD MyBook Pro's have USB. All my removable drives are USB. All the memory keys are USB. I can boot from USB. Hmmm, let's see...

Now onto computers. My old old old 1999 computers have USB and IEEE 1394 (Firewire). My old 2004 Dell Inspiron 300m has IEEE 1394 (firewire). My Dell Latitude D830 has IEEE 1394. I've NEVER used any of these ports EVER. I don't have a single device supporting IEEE 1394. Maybe because as I've said previously, I AVOID Firewire? I find these peripheral devices are more expensive than equivalent USB counterparts, but offer nothing more in terms of performance. Ah, perhaps the new Firewire does, but still, even the real IEEE 1394 offers LESS performance than USB2.

>
Firewire in Dell Inspiron 300m ultra-portable (2.6 pounds without battery)


Firewire in Dell Latitude D830

My HP Media Vault has 3 USB ports, so I can attach USB drives, and make them available over Ethernet. My Xbox is USB (albeit proprietary, but I purchased adaptors from interestingdevices) My Xbox 360 also has USB. And so does the PS3. But no IEEE 1394 on any of these either.

Basically all my computers have USB. All my peripherals are USB or eSata. And a $12 8GB USB memory key or $20 16GB USB key are commonly available, yet I never saw a IEEE1394 memory key? Maybe it exist, but ... Why would I care?

That is what I meant in terms of interoperability. Not with devices supporting IEEE 1934, but it appears everything else... My HD Satellite has USB. My HD cable box PVR has USB. The Western Digital HD media set-top-box is USB exclusively. www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=572 ~ $100 Costco.


[quote]Excerpt from [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_1394]
The IEEE 1394 interface is a serial bus interface standard for high-speed communications and isochronous real-time data transfer, frequently used by personal computers, as well as in digital audio, digital video, automotive, and aeronautics applications. The interface is also known by the brand names of FireWire (Apple Inc.), i.LINK (Sony), and Lynx (Texas Instruments). IEEE 1394 replaced parallel SCSI in many applications, because of lower implementation costs and a simplified, more adaptable cabling system. The 1394 standard also defines a backplane interface, though this is not as widely used.

[smax013]

WinTard said:

I find these devices cost more, but offer nothing more in terms of performance. Ah, perhaps the new Firewire does, but still, even the real IEEE 1394 offers LESS performance than USB2.

Care to support that statement with some references?

Yes, USB has a higher theoretical speed (480 Mpbs compare to 400 Mbps for the original Fireiwre/IEEE 1394), but that is just a number on a piece of paper that is NEVER achieve. It is, however, an established fact that Firewire 400/IEEE 1394 is a higher performance connection than USB 2.0 for sustained throughput/higher data bandwidth (i.e. for hard drive and digital video). Here is just one link to support that assertion: http://www.usb-ware....ire-vs-usb.htm. Feel free to do your own Google search and I am sure that you will find a LOT more that say the same thing.

Oh, and the "new" Firewire (i.e. 1394b or Firewire 800) is "real". It is just a newer, update spec. Much like USB 2.0 is the newer update spec compare to USB 1.1...that does not make USB 1.1 (or 1.0) the "real" USB...just makes it the older USB.

[rasmasyean]

10% world internet use...IF evenly contributed by each OS user, would be 160 million users.
www.50x15.com/en-us/internet_usage.aspx

[WinTard]

[quote name='smax013']
>

WinTard said:

> I find these devices cost more, but offer nothing more in terms of performance. Ah, perhaps the new Firewire does, but still, even the real IEEE 1394 offers LESS performance than USB2.
>

Care to support that statement with some references?

Yes, USB has a higher theoretical speed (480 Mpbs compare to 400 Mbps for the original Fireiwre/IEEE 1394), but that is just a number on a piece of paper that is NEVER achieve. It is, however, an established fact that Firewire 400/IEEE 1394 is a higher performance connection than USB 2.0 for sustained throughput/higher data bandwidth (i.e. for hard drive and digital video). Here is just one link to support that assertion: http://www.usb-ware....ire-vs-usb.htm. Feel free to do your own Google search and I am sure that you will find a LOT more that say the same thing.

Oh, and the "new" Firewire (i.e. 1394b or Firewire 800) is "real". It is just a newer, update spec. Much like USB 2.0 is the newer update spec compare to USB 1.1...that does not make USB 1.1 (or 1.0) the "real" USB...just makes it the older USB.

Sigh. Another exercise in futility. But I'll humor you.

Google: Results 1 - 10 of about 293,000 for firewire memory key. (0.31 seconds)

FireWire flash drive Flash Memory - CNET Reviews
The Bottom Line: Kanguru's Fire Flash memory key delivers midrange speeds but is awkward to use and expensive. Unless you absolutely must use a FireWire ...
reviews.cnet.com/4566-32337-0.html?filter=50324911723801_ - 58k - Cached - Similar pages

I'll leave the rest of the exercise to your efforts, since you ask. Why don't you provide examples for a change?

Listen, I go by electrical specs. I find the high-bandwidth devices are those external (non e-Sata) USB drives. And they work fast. Since I DO NOT HAVE experience with IEEE 1394, having no peripherals, I guess I could research the issue? Just to prove what?

But theoretical specs are better than hearsay IMHO. ;)

As for sustained throughput, both you and I agree about eSATA...

Excerpt from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SATA#SATA6Gbit.2Fs
SATA 6 Gbit/s
Serial ATA International Organization presented the draft specification of SATA 6 Gbit/s physical layer in July 2008,[11] and ratified its physical layer specification on August 18, 2008. The full 3.0 standard is expected to be available in early 2009.[12] While even the fastest conventional hard disk drives can barely saturate the original SATA 1.5 Gbit/s bandwidth, Intel's Solid State Disk drives are close to saturating the SATA 3 Gbit/s limit at 250 MB/s net read speed, and other new drives including Super Talent, Memoright and Samsung are close to that as well. Ten channels of fast flash can actually reach well over 500 MB/s with new ONFI drives, so a move from SATA 3 Gbit/s to SATA 6 Gbit/s would benefit the flash read speeds. As for the standard hard disks, the reads from their built-in DRAM cache will end up faster across the new interface.[13]

Point being: USB-2 is the most flexible / cost effective and efficient way of universally connecting virtually anything. And for sustained throughput, SATA is the way to go, eSata providing an external connection...

Not because the new 800mbits/sec Firewire is technically inferior, but because of economies of scale, I'll still be first and foremost be using USB over IEEE 1394. Most my computers have Firewire ports, that I NEVER use. Total waste for me. JMHO.

And speaking of trivialities or useless futile comparisons, I can't even purchase a USB 1.1 port anymore! Or find contemporary USB 1.1 peripheral devices either... Moot point. (Unless one purchases used, second-hand stuff, which I NEVER do either).

You see there are practical reasons, then academic ones... Firewire is academic (and useless to me). Yet it may be indispensable to you. I don't dispute that.

~~~~~~~~~~
Pure sciences is good. Engineering is better. It is applied sciences...

[MarioJP]

i see we are debating usb vs firewire hmm ic. I can shed some light into this as i can explain whats reality and whats bs. Reality: usb is plug and play easy to work with and even hard drives is okay for them. Your old T10/100 base ethernet is much slower than usb 2.0 so thats a moot point about usb limits hard drives speeds as any mechanical drive barely achieve at thos speeds. What is changed now we have ethernet cards with T10/100/1000 But notice before 1000 came it was 100 where as usb 2.0 is 480??





BS:even though firewire has higher bandwith and higher voltage support up to 32Volts. But here is the gotcha the amperage is very limited. USB is 5 Volts but with somewhat higher amperage. To say "Get external firewire drive because is faster" that is BS. Whats fact though firewire drive does not require additional power as i siad before. Firewire voltage is much much higher than USB. That i will admit that firewire has over USB. But firewire is not plug and play. I don't even use my firewire ports at all in fact i have it physically disconnected from the motherboard.










The reason why usb is popular because it is plug and play where as firewire is not. Even apple has usb ports now. But with USB 3.0 coming we will see how fast it be going. Till then USB is just owning.

[artzy65]

"Mac's last longer because on average, people don't know what to do with them because after they buy it, there's like no games and applications for them worth using and it becomes a sporadic convenient internet kiosk."



I'm glad you said 'average' mac users.

As for me, my G4 tower (2002) and G4 Powerbook (2005) are both running all (except Ae and Pr) adobe CS4 apps very nicely. As for my G3s (1999) all 3 run Panther (and I could install at least Tiger, using XPostFacto4, on those machines) and reasonably modern CS software and Quark 6.

There are a ton of mac users like me out there who continue to get yeoman service out of really old macs. Average mac and pc users simply don't give a s--t about tech and so naturally will be unable or unwilling to maximize their investment, like tech-savvy users do.

And yes, we do baby our macs.... good on you for recognizing that! There's hope for you yet!

; )

Message was edited by: artzy65

[smax013]

MarioJP said:

But firewire is not plug and play.

That's funny...on all my computers (both Windows and Mac), I simply plug in my Firewire drives and "play".

[smax013]

WinTard said:

I'll leave the rest of the exercise to your efforts, since you ask. Why don't you provide examples for a change?

I already did...but if you want more, fine:

From http://www.usb-ware....ire-vs-usb.htm:

"Read and write tests to the same IDE hard drive connected using FireWire and then Hi-Speed USB 2.0 show:

Read Test:

5000 files (300 MB total) FireWire was 33% faster than USB 2.0
160 files (650MB total) FireWire was 70% faster than USB 2.0
Write Test:

5000 files (300 MB total) FireWire was 16% faster than USB 2.0
160 files (650MB total) FireWire was 48% faster than USB 2.0"

From http://www.barefeats.com/usb2.html:





And since you like Wikipedia, from http://en.wikipedia....Wire#ComparisontoUSB:

"Although high-speed USB 2.0 nominally runs at a higher signaling rate (480 Mbit/s) than FireWire 400, data transfers over S400 FireWire interfaces generally outperform similar transfers over USB 2.0 interfaces. Typical USB PC-hosts rarely exceed sustained transfers of 280 Mbit/s, with 240 Mbit/s being more typical. This is likely due to USB's reliance on the host-processor to manage low-level USB protocol, whereas FireWire delegates the same tasks to the interface hardware. For example, the FireWire host interface supports memory-mapped devices, which allows high-level protocols to run without loading the host CPU with interrupts and buffer-copy operations.[4] Besides throughput, other differences are that it uses simpler bus networking, provides more power over the chain, more reliable data transfer, and uses fewer CPU resources.[24]
FireWire 800 is substantially faster than Hi-Speed USB, both in theory and in practice.[25]"

Quote

Listen, I go by electrical specs. I find the high-bandwidth devices are those external (non e-Sata) USB drives. And they work fast. Since I DO NOT HAVE experience with IEEE 1394, having no peripherals, I guess I could research the issue? Just to prove what?

But theoretical specs are better than hearsay IMHO. ;)

Not hearsay...just facts that don't support your opinion.

Quote

Point being: USB-2 is the most flexible / cost effective and efficient way of universally connecting virtually anything.

Never said it was not. I merely said that Firewire is faster for sustained throughput, which matters when talking about external hard drives.

Quote

And for sustained throughput, SATA is the way to go, eSata providing an external connection...

Don't disagree that eSATA is better than both...but that is not what was being discussed at the time...the relative speeds of Firewire and USB 2.0 were.

Quote

You see there are practical reasons, then academic ones... Firewire is academic (and useless to me).

And Firewire is the better practical choice compared to USB for external hard drives if you only connect the drive to one computer and leave it connected (which is the case for the majority of users). If you move your drive from computer to computer, then most likely USB is the more practical choice...unless all your computers have Firewire ports (which is the case for me...but I suspect not for most people). And if you are caring around a drive and might end up using it with some friend's or client's, etc computer, which you know nothing about, then USB is definitely the more practical choice.

[asiafish]

TechieXP said:

So all you could do was copy and paste a bunch of quotes from Asiafish...
Oh wait aren't those Mac-Libs (Mad-Libs)? Where all you do is take a paragraph that has a few blanks where you can put in any word you want. And they are all fixed to fit the words MSFT and Windows in any sentence using either word...

MSFT Sucks, Windows sucks...see requires no thought.

When have I EVER said that Microsoft or Windows sucks? Thats right folks, NEVER. My harshest criticism of Windows Vista and Windows 7 is that they don't suspend and resume as quickly and reliably as OS X does. One feature. I've also mentioned, on many occasions, the things that I do like about Windows Vista, Windows 7 and Microsoft Office, both Mac and Windows versions. I've been a Microsoft customer for over two decades now, both operating systems and office software for both Mac and Windows platforms, so don't go accusing me of Microsoft or PC-bashing.

[WinTard]

Nice, sorry I didn't read that. My bad! Why didn't you post it then like you did now? Then the point would have been made. But again, to me this is academic, since for sustained throughput I'd use eSata (which I am). I use OKGear eSata (all aluminum) external HDD boxes... Again, moot point! And there is a nice little switch in the back, for when I carry that portable external drive somewhere they don't have eSATA. But EVERYONE has USB...

I get the best of both, performance and interoperability.

http://www.google.co...&q=OKGear+esata

http://www.okgear.co...ures/ok2168.htm

I use USB for universal flexibility. I use USB because my peripherals do not support IEEE 1394. But on my HDD external cases I use OKGear (with nice blue leds) and both USB and eSata interfaces built in. So, I still don't see the point of IEEE 1394.

But It was a nice read smax013. Thank you. I mean it. :)

[smax013]

TechieXP said:

:D Oh and lets not forget how many devices can be daisy chained from a USB Hub...last count with USB 2.0...127 devices hooked to one computer...how many can firewire support? As far as I know 1.

Nope...not one...but rather 16 devices daisy chained.

As to USB's 127, that is correct it is to one USB "header"...if your computer has more than one USB header, then I believe you can go further than 127 devices (but I could be wrong)...but it is a theoretical limit and it is also limited by cable lengths and other factors. The end result is that it is rather difficult to connect 127, but you can certainly do more than Firewire.

But, considering that Firewire is NOT meant for "low bandwidth" devices (i.e. printers, mice, keyboards, etc), there are lot less devices that you would even try to use with a Firewire port.

Quote

BTW Apple didn't invent USB or Firewire, but they were the first to sport the connections...much good it did..Windows made better use of it.

Yes and no. True, Apple did not invent IEEE 1394, which is the underlying specification of Firewire. But, they did "invent" Firewire...I put invent in quotes because they did not actually invent the technology, but they did trademark the Firewire name, which is kind of like "inventing" Firewire (i.e. they invented the name). Firewire is Apple's trademark name for IEEE 1394...which means that if you want to market that your computer has Firewire, then you have to pay Apple some money (rather nice money grap by Apple). It is just like Sony calling IEEE 1394 "iLink"...Sony trademarked that name.

[asiafish]

WinTard said:

Nice, sorry I didn't read that. My bad! Why didn't you post it then like you did now? Then the point would have been made. But again, to me this is academic, since for sustained throughput I'd use eSata (which I am). I use OKGear eSata (all aluminum) external HDD boxes... Again, moot point! And there is a nice little switch in the back, for when I carry that portable external drive somewhere they don't have eSATA. But EVERYONE has USB...

I get the best of both, performance and interoperability.

http://www.google.co...&q=OKGear+esata

http://www.okgear.co...ures/ok2168.htm

I use USB for universal flexibility. I use USB because my peripherals do not support IEEE 1394. But on my HDD external cases I use OKGear (with nice blue leds) and both USB and eSata interfaces built in. So, I still don't see the point of IEEE 1394.

But It was a nice read smax013. Thank you. I mean it. :)

My external drive has USB 2.0, FireWire 400 and FireWire 800 ports. The FireWire ports are bus-powered. This is extremely convenient and easy to use on either my MacBook Pro (FireWire 800) or ThinkPad (FireWire 400 - no bus power in the 4-pin port) or USB 2.0. There is no comparison on performance, however, FireWire 800 blows the other two into the weeds, while FireWire 400 is still much faster than USB 2.

When I travel with my drive, I carry both FireWire and USB cables, so I can connect with FireWire when available and with USB when it is not. FireWire is my first choice because of its superior throughput.

eSata would be nice, but few retail computers have eSata ports yet. My brand-new high-end ThinkPad doesn't have one, nor does my MacBook Pro. There are a few laptops starting to come out with the port, but since they are mostly bulky luggable models I won't consider them, especially since I already have FireWire and it is fast and easy.

Also, I consider the "nice blue LEDs" to be tacky and cheap-looking, just like the pulsing LEDs on some HP laptops or the glowing eyes on an AlienWare. I like good, clean and simple design, without a bunch of cheesy decoration. Stuff like that to me is like taking a beautiful BMW sports sedan and taking some silly wing to the trunk. I'll take mine clean, thank you.

[WinTard]

My gaming motherboards supports eSATA...

eSATA is SATA by the way, with an external connector... My Dell Latitude D830 has an internal 7200RPM 16MB cache Sata III. Most contemporary mobos support SATA. With a simple bracket adaptor, it becomes eSATA.

But enthusiast parts are generally more 'advanced' than retail brand. And I consider blue leds much more attractive and stylish than the ubiquitous green or red leds... Now we're not going to debate colors? Which is the 'best' color? LOL! Oh, sorry, but all bluetooth is um, blue in color... ;)

[TechieXP]

Now I have to be sarcastic.

You ever notice the only things in life that break, are thing that require being used. Isn't that right? Cars would never break if you don't drive them. Pencil leads would never break if you didn't write with them...a heart would never break if you didn't fall in love...right? Breaking denotes usages...Macs don't need warranties, because they never break...because they are useless. Useless things never break...that is why museums do so well....and that is why it is behind glass...if you don't touch it you can't break it...right?

Now I get it.
And yes pun was certainly intended.
I simply love blanket statements.

Macs don't need warranties...you don't need food either..so why you eat? Out of habit?
Common man, I just know you didn't put yourself out there to get bashed. Anyone seen Airplane? The seen where everyone was standing in line with a bat to hit the Nun? How about we all stand in line with a computer compoent and crack him a few times with some Mac components and see if you need a warranty.