[smax013]

WinTard said:

I use USB for universal flexibility. I use USB because my peripherals do not support IEEE 1394. But on my HDD external cases I use OKGear (with nice blue leds) and both USB and eSata interfaces built in. So, I still don't see the point of IEEE 1394.

That's cool. A lot of people use USB for that reason...and I don't blame them. While Firewire is faster, it is not like it take 5 years to transfer a 1 GB file by USB and it takes 5 minutes for Firewire. If you are going to start copying a large amount of data and walk away or automatically run your backups at night, then you will likely never notice the speed difference between the two and thus USB will be just fine.

And then there is the issue of cost. It is a plain simple fact that Firewire drives (or enclosures with Firewire) cost more than USB only drives (or external enclosures). So, why you someone want to spend more money if USB will work for them, unless they will REALLY benefit from the added speed of a Firewire drive.

Thus, it is perfectly logical that many people just get a USB only drive.

FWIW, all my Firewire drives (whether brand name "manufactured" drives or self built from an internal drive and external enclosure) have both a Firewire port and a USB port. Thus, I have the best of both worlds! :D

[smax013]

asiafish said:

eSata would be nice, but few retail computers have eSata ports yet. My brand-new high-end ThinkPad doesn't have one, nor does my MacBook Pro. There are a few laptops starting to come out with the port, but since they are mostly bulky luggable models I won't consider them, especially since I already have FireWire and it is fast and easy.

Can you say "ExpressCard"? ;)

I bought an ExpressCard so that I could use an eSATA drive with my MacBook Pro. Haven't had a chance to play with it yet, however.

Quote

Also, I consider the "nice blue LEDs" to be tacky and cheap-looking, just like the pulsing LEDs on some HP laptops or the glowing eyes on an AlienWare. I like good, clean and simple design, without a bunch of cheesy decoration.

Then you don't like it when the MacBook Pro is asleep and the little power light at the front clasp pulses at you, right? :D

[WinTard]

smax013 said:

Yes and no. True, Apple did not invent IEEE 1394, which is the underlying specification of Firewire. But, they did "invent" Firewire...I put invent in quotes because they did not actually invent the technology, but they did trademark the Firewire name, which is kind of like "inventing" Firewire (i.e. they invented the name). Firewire is Apple's trademark name for IEEE 1394...which means that if you want to market that your computer has Firewire, then you have to pay Apple some money (rather nice money grap by Apple). It is just like Sony calling IEEE 1394 "iLink"...Sony trademarked that name.

Apple is good at spinning FUD. It's like they invented EVERYTHING...

http://www.ieee.org/...home/index.html

A non-profit organization, IEEE is the world's leading professional association for the advancement of technology.

The IEEE name was originally an acronym for the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers, Inc. Today, the organization's scope of interest has expanded into so many related fields, that it is simply referred to by the letters I-E-E-E (pronounced Eye-triple-E).

The IEEE is a standards body organization. Lots of standards came from them. Nothing to do with Apple which is a for profit only marketing organization.

Similar with EFI. Apple didn't invent anything there either. All newer motherboards are going EFI.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/ExtensibleFirmwareInterface
The Extensible Firmware Interface (EFI) is a specification that defines a software interface between an operating system and platform firmware. EFI is a much larger, more complex,[1] OS-like[2]:4 replacement of the older BIOS firmware interface present in all IBM PC-compatible personal computers.[2] The

EFI specification was originally developed by Intel, and is now managed by the Unified EFI Forum.

The original motivation for EFI came during early development of the first Intel-HP Itanium systems in the mid-1990s. PC BIOS limitations (16-bit processor mode, 1 MB addressable space, PC AT hardware dependencies, etc.) were seen as clearly unacceptable for the larger server platforms Itanium was targeting. The initial effort to address these concerns was initially called Intel Boot Initiative and was later renamed to EFI.[3]

In 2005, the UEFI Forum was created, and is now responsible for EFI development[4] and promotion.

Version 2.1 of the UEFI specification was released on January 7, 2007; as of March 2007. It added cryptography, network authentication, and the User Interface Architecture (Human Interface Infrastructure in UEFI).

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/UEFI_Forum
The Unified EFI Forum or UEFI Forum (where UEFI stands for Unified Extensible Firmware Interface) is an alliance between several leading technology companies including AMD, American Megatrends, Apple, ARM, Dell, HP, IBM, Insyde Software, Intel, Lenovo, Microsoft, and Phoenix Technologies.

Again, nothing to do with Apple, other than they participate, like all others... Including Microsoft.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/930061
Microsoft Windows Server 2003 supports Extended Firmware Interface (EFI) 1.10 on Intel Itanium platforms. Windows Server 2008 supports EFI 1.10 on Intel Itanium platforms, and introduces support to start the computer by using a native UEFI boot on x64 64-bit platforms. Although the initial release of Windows Vista will not include UEFI x64 64-bit support, a later Windows Vista release will support UEFI.

Who needs bootcamp? Windows can boot through EFI natively. Including Windows 7... (except perhaps for XP... Sorry I look ahead, not behind)

[WinTard]

I'd say the best of both worlds is eSATA and USB-2.0 Lol! ;) To each its own! Even though most of my PC systems today have IEEE 1394 ports built-in...

[smax013]

WinTard said:

http://www.google.co...&q=OKGear+esata

http://www.okgear.co...ures/ok2168.htm

FWIW, I use IcyDock external enclosures for my drives. I have one Firewire/USB enclosure and two eSATA/USB enclosures. They have a nice design with a tray that slides out...and you can buy extra trays so that you can swap drives rather quickly.

But, the "new" addition is this:




It is the NewerTech Voyager Q. It will accept either 2.5" or 3.5" SATA drives. It has a quad interface (USB 2.0, Firewire 400, Firewire 800, and eSATA). I use it for when I clone my boot drives for backup purposes...I can quickly swap in and out drives for when I clone one of my three boot drives (soon to be more as I plan on "playing" with Win 7, Vista x64, and some flavor of Linux) on the Windows desktop. I will use the eSATA connection, but I have already used it when I upgrade my MacBook Pro's internal hard drive...hooked it up by Firewire so that I could install the OS on the new drive and then copy over the files/data/applications/preferences to the new drive from the old drive...then installed the new drive...then used the Voyager again to clone the new drive to a backup drive. So far, it has been a handy little device.

[Evildave]

If you have 1000bt and two or more users, actually a NAS drive (though about $100~$200 more expensive) is probably the thing for you. After all, almost all PCs have a network. Some of the NAS doohickies have wireless routers built in, too.
Another minor nitpick about the 'superiority' of having 128 devices plugged into a USB2 port.
With IEEE-1394, you just plug the next (and next, and next) drive into the previous ones.
And you'll have to buy an enormous stack of USB hubs to plug those 128 things into. I wonder if you'd have enough outlet strips for all the wall warts for all the USB hubs? Realistically, 127 is sort of a dumb value, unless you have composite USB devices (like EVDOGPSpez dispenser). 480 / 127 = not much bandwidth left, per device. Maybe they're planning ahead for USB3 or USB4, but for now the fact that there are 127 possible devices is meaningless.
And it's not as if a Mac doesn't have any USB 2 ports. They all do. At least all of them SINCE USB was established.
Once upon a time, before every digital camera had video built in, 1394 was the de-facto standard for getting 'lossless' digital video off DV video cameras. This is probably one reason Apple kept a 1394 (AKA 'Firewire') port on every Mac. The video monkey could plug a stack of 'big' firewire drives in, along with the camera/VCR things, and it would all work like magic.
Firewire 800 has been around for years, now. Any newer PC/Mac that has Firewire will have Firewire 800. Even my Craptastic Dell Vostro has a mini-firewire 800 port. Most chipsets have it, whether or not the motherboard manufacturer wired it up.
lspci | grep 1394 sez: 03:01.0 FireWire (IEEE 1394): Ricoh Co Ltd R5C832 IEEE 1394 Controller (rev 05)
I'm sure most of you complaining about never having a use for 1394 don't have a single 'express card' device for your notebook. Many desktop PCs still have legacy printer and serial ports. Most people shrug. Some people complain. After all, a big, fat USB header could've gone where those (mostly useless, unless you need them) ports are. Some people never plug a second monitor into their notebooks, yet there is a port for that on most notebooks.
My real pet peeve is all these morons out there who design a keyboard layout that scramble the keys up to make room for a numeric keypad. I'd rather have the completely 'normal' layout made infamous in the 1980's, and no keypad. All the design it needs is, hack the numeric keypad off. Instead, I get scrunched keys, deleted keys, fn keys, and keys with invisible blue text on black for what 'fn' does with them. I hate fn keyboards. I have no use for the numeric keypad. Other people claim they'd die without it. I say let 'em die.

[TechieXP]

Here is what is so great about Windows and TRADITIONAL cellphones. With the flash memory I can go out and buy multiple micro drives...and I can spend 1 saturday filling them all up. And then mark them so I know which has what. Instead of constantly firing up my pc to use Itunes to switch music...I can simply swap out a memory card.

What convienience...what for-throught...what a Windows PC. And I can even plug the card in and give my pc and use the drive to epand my memory.
and with a USB adapter I can plug them into any pc and trade songes...or even bluetooth them over...

the computer is the most versatile tool that is probably known to man...yet people rather limit the possibilities of what can be done with them...simply to be different. Sometimes being different...gets more criticism than being popular.

[smax013]

WinTard said:

Apple is good at spinning FUD. It's like they invented EVERYTHING...

I have never heard Apple claim to invent either Firewire (aka IEEE 1394) or EFI. They were certainly the first major computer manufacturer to support/use IEEE 1394. And they are the first computer manufacturer to widely use EFI on computers that are NOT server level computers.

[WinTard]

I stand corrected, the best is to have all three. More statistical probabilities of universality! On that I agree with you smax013! Good find!

[smax013]

WinTard said:

I stand corrected, the best is to have all three. More statistical probabilities of universality! On that I agree with you smax013! Good find!

FWIW, they also offer a version that has eSATA and USB only, which would likely work better for you since you choose not to use Firewire. And it is half the price of the quad interface version (why pay $100 to get an interface that you likely won't use, when you can pay about $50).

[WinTard]

Well I have heard so many times that Firewire was INVENTED by Apple... Of course I'm a bit of a nerd ;) and knew this was um, an erroneous assumption... Generally it comes from zealots (of which I am guilty as well)... And here at PCWorld, about the advanced EFI, statements like Apple PC's have no BIOS, or non-Apple PC's use the OLD BIOS but Apple is Advanced... Both you and I know how to discern FUD. BTW. The EFI is an 'advanced' BIOS. LOL! Involving NVRAM as well... Imagine the viruses. I shudder to think about that. And you know, first is a relative term... I never looked into the recent i7 mobos, but suspect they support EFI. I'll get there with my new system. However, Microsoft is ready with EFI. And AMI + Phoenix Technologies are THE major BIOS makers... And they are part of UEFI forum, as much as Apple and Microsoft are. Also, I'm sure not so well informed zealots will say that people are copying Apple on EFI LOL! :D

But there again you are RIGHT! I've never seen anything from Apple themselves claiming any of these fallacies. Please believe me when I say I have nothing against Apple. It's the zealots spewing FUD that annoy the heck out of me... But two wongs do not make a right, and I am guilty of becoming devil's advocate, I take the other side, and it may come through as I am seriously anti-Apple. I am only anti-FUD.

[smax013]

Evildave said:

If you have 1000bt and two or more users, actually a NAS drive (though about $100~$200 more expensive) is probably the thing for you. After all, almost all PCs have a network.

Very true...and to that effect, I have an LaCie NAS with two drives in RAID 1 that has Gigabit ethernet...and all three of my main computers have Gigabit ethernet, so transfers are rather zippy. It is my main file repository.

All my non-NAS external drives are for local additional storage or backup.

[TechieXP]

yea they can be painful. I miss having my Palm VX700...
I haven't found a touchscreen that was really comfortable. unless u have very pointy finger tips. I have narrow fingers and I still can't type well. But the storm is the best I have used....in a way. I like that just touching the letter doesn't make it type...u have to actually push the screen to confirm. A bit slower...but by the time u backspace with any other it will take the same time. I still love my Instinct, but the Storm is better.

I like iPhone too...but Blackberry which I didn't like turned out to be pleasant. I didn't like the curve or bold as they look like curved motorola q's. The Storm had a cooler look without the keyboard and I can change the themes which is what I liked about Windows Mobile...something u can do with you know who.

[smax013]

TechieXP said:

I haven't found a touchscreen that was really comfortable. unless u have very pointy finger tips. I have narrow fingers and I still can't type well.

I strongly dislike the touchscreen keyboard on the iPhone (and iPod Touch, which I do have)...which is one reason why I have yet to get an iPhone. My Treo 755p with its physical keys (lovely old concept) is MUCH better for typing in short email messages (no way I would want to type ANYTHING long on ANY phone keyboard).

[TechieXP]

As I recall...i specifically said overseas market. Apple has a 9.x% total market...6% is the USA alone....

While Dell has 5 times the overseas market penetration...and HP has quite a bit as well.

Ever notice...? The most popular devices in other countries aren't made by Apple. In most Asian countries...Nokia is the popular phone.
And for the car stuff that other comment on...the most reliable cars come from Japan not Germany..ever notice the only other car companys that out numbe our own are from Asian countries...not Germany.

A ;exus is proof you don't need a Benz or a BWM to have a classy car. And teh Vette and Viper shows you can have a fast classy care that doesn't need cost 6 figures. Try this the fastest car in product if the what? Mc Claren F1...which is basically a F1 race car with a sprt cars body...cost over $1 MIL to get one sent here. Yet a stock Dodge Viper cost about $60K beat a fighter jet to the finish line in a 1/4 mile...Something that McClaren can't do. Again poof you don't have to spend a lot to get equal or better quality.

Again a Mac is just an over-price PC brand...if you compare Apple sales of highend laptops...vs other highend laptops who do you think will have more sales? Enterprises companies mostly use Windows...Which means most businessmen which I see usually have ThinkPads or Vaio's...and Dell Latitudes...Not Macs. Windows PC's alrady have a hugh marker....if 60% of that market is mid-grade hardware...what is the other 40%

[Evildave]

And yet the Dodge viper doesn't fly, and the fighter jet in its element (airborn) goes faster than the speed of sound.

Lick poo! A trillion flies can't be wrong!

[asiafish]

[quote name='smax013']
>

asiafish said:

>
> eSata would be nice, but few retail computers have eSata ports yet. My brand-new high-end ThinkPad doesn't have one, nor does my MacBook Pro. There are a few laptops starting to come out with the port, but since they are mostly bulky luggable models I won't consider them, especially since I already have FireWire and it is fast and easy.

Can you say "ExpressCard"? ;)

I can, but why? I already have FireWire on all of my computer, Mac and PC, and its built-in. I see no need to move to add-on cards and dongles to convert my sleek and portable laptops to ESATA. Just like FireWire 800 and USB 2 before, I'll move to ESATA when it becomes ubiquitous.

Quote

I bought an ExpressCard so that I could use an eSATA drive with my MacBook Pro. Haven't had a chance to play with it yet, however.

>
> Also, I consider the "nice blue LEDs" to be tacky and cheap-looking, just like the pulsing LEDs on some HP laptops or the glowing eyes on an AlienWare. I like good, clean and simple design, without a bunch of cheesy decoration.

Then you don't like it when the MacBook Pro is asleep and the little power light at the front clasp pulses at you, right? :D

That little LED onthe MacBookPro is tiny, white and not in any way garish, unlike a large blue glowing corporate name on the front of the drive. I would prefer a small, single LED.

[asiafish]

WinTard said:

I'd say the best of both worlds is eSATA and USB-2.0 Lol! ;) To each its own! Even though most of my PC systems today have IEEE 1394 ports built-in...

Why ignore FireWire when it is on every board you have and all of your laptops? It is faster than USB 2 and with its bus-power, more convenient. The only reason I can see leaving FireWire out is to be anti-Apple.

Nobody says you should use FireWire, but saying that ESATA and USB are the best of both worlds is clearly biased. I would say for hard drives that FireWire and ESATA is the best of both worlds and leave USB for keyboards, mice and printers.

[asiafish]

TechieXP said:

As I recall...i specifically said overseas market. Apple has a 9.x% total market...6% is the USA alone....

While Dell has 5 times the overseas market penetration...and HP has quite a bit as well.

Ever notice...? The most popular devices in other countries aren't made by Apple. In most Asian countries...Nokia is the popular phone.
And for the car stuff that other comment on...the most reliable cars come from Japan not Germany..ever notice the only other car companys that out numbe our own are from Asian countries...not Germany.

A ;exus is proof you don't need a Benz or a BWM to have a classy car. And teh Vette and Viper shows you can have a fast classy care that doesn't need cost 6 figures. Try this the fastest car in product if the what? Mc Claren F1...which is basically a F1 race car with a sprt cars body...cost over $1 MIL to get one sent here. Yet a stock Dodge Viper cost about $60K beat a fighter jet to the finish line in a 1/4 mile...Something that McClaren can't do. Again poof you don't have to spend a lot to get equal or better quality.

Nobody needs a Lexus either. With premium cars, you buy it because you WANT it, not because it is any more reliable than a regular car.

I bought Mercedes (twice now) and BMW (once) because I found the Lexus cars in the same class to be boring. The Mercedes C class sport sedan is distinctive, fast, tightly built and a blast to drive. The Lexus ES350 is a Camry with nicer leather while the IS250, fast and fun though it is, feels tinny and cheap compared to the Mercedes.

Quote

Again a Mac is just an over-price PC brand...if you compare Apple sales of highend laptops...vs other highend laptops who do you think will have more sales? Enterprises companies mostly use Windows...Which means most businessmen which I see usually have ThinkPads or Vaio's...and Dell Latitudes...Not Macs. Windows PC's alrady have a hugh marker....if 60% of that market is mid-grade hardware...what is the other 40%

Here you go again, making assumptions you know NOTHING about. Apple is THE HIGHEST VOLUME SELLER OF LAPTOPS OVER $1000 in the United States. Period.

[artzy65]

"...Macs don't need warranties, because they never break...because they are useless. Useless things never break..."



There is no way to get a sensible response from you, sir.
Message was edited by: artzy65