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"I agree 100%. With the clarification that costliest may not always be the best..."
No image editor beats Photoshop. No page layout software beats QuarkXPress (I can't vouch for InDesign... but I do have Id CS4 and will be incorporating it into my CS4 workflow... I'll continue with Quark on my older systems though). No draw software beats Illustrator. Period.
Free/cheap apps like Gimp (the name says it all), Graphic Converter, Pixelmator etc are really for consumers... amateurs. If you are a serious graphic designer who actual makes a living in the industry, you don't screw around with apps that do maybe 60% of what the pro stuff does.
Which is Better For Your Business?a Mac or a PC?
MultiQuote
#602
TechieXP 
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Posted 25 May 2009 - 10:43 AM
@EvilDave
If all of America could get food 3 times a day to feed their whole family, do you think McDonald's would be so popular? We all need water to live, so why don't we all just run over to the ocean, or river, or lake and just grap buckets of it? Air is free so when my car tire needs it, why should I go pay for it at a gas station?
Just like some things you pay for arn't better, some free things aren't either.
To answer you rant on PDF. You don't have to buy Acrobat to view or create PDF files. Install Adobe Reader or ODFCReator are both free and they both create a PDF printer. I can creat a document using any word processor and then print is as a PDF.
I use GIMP at work because I need to do some simple photo editing here and there. It isn't worth it for us to go out and buy Photoshop. I don't thin GIMP is bad at all. And for simple editing tasks it is sufficient for a majority. But for a professional it isn't even close to being a replacement.
Asisde from the fact Asisfish said the gov't requires docs to be in Word format, what about those companies that need the macros of Excel? Or who need the special abilities of Word? Open Office would suffice for many...but why waste time downloading it? Windows already comes with WordPad which would be sufficent for typing generic documents. And most systems come with Works...which is better than WordPad and doesn't office the complex tools of Word. It rests so nice in the middle. And its free.
If free simply worked, then commercial software won't stand a chance. A company that has 25,000 employees would surely save a lot o money as oppose to buying MSFT licenses to Office and Windows if Open Office and Linux did what they needed it too do on huge scale. If Linux can become more desktop friendly then it sure could be more useful at home. But free software doesn't do what commercial software does.
Here are some things you can try for free.
Go build a car and see how close you can get to the commerical versions.
Go build a plane and seee how close you can get to the commercial.
Oh and there is a catch...you aren't allowed to BUY any components.
I don't think free software is bad..Windows has plenty of it...it is just commercial software is better.
Take something as simply as webpage editing....a very good programmer who knows HTML inside an out can code pages by simply using Notepad..or some other generic WYSIWYG editor. But what about peope who can and need to use features they are not familiar with? FrontPage would be sufficient...but what about on a professional level where you need to be able to program for the differences in teh browsers. Wouldn't Dreamweaver make more sense? Are there any free programs as good as Flash or Dreamwaver...? I doubt it.
Money matter...look what Apple did in 10 years....look what Microsoft did in 10 years...now look where Linux is...HUGE DIFFERENCE.
I am sure many companies would love to get away from commercialized software providing they can find free tools that do the exact same things. But they aren't going to find something that doesn't exist...just like sceentists are never going to find the missing link to man and ape...because there is non. Just like there is no caveman...just like reptiles aren't related to birds...and just like we aren't going to find aliens in space...These are just all illusions to waste our money...if they haven't found anything in 3 centuries...why would I believe they ever will? If Linux hasn't become main strean in all this time...why should I believe it ever will. Open Source software has been around for a while...Linux isn't the first and it won't be the last.
Linux is simply a movement for people like you who hate comercial based software...especially ones made by Microsoft.
If all of America could get food 3 times a day to feed their whole family, do you think McDonald's would be so popular? We all need water to live, so why don't we all just run over to the ocean, or river, or lake and just grap buckets of it? Air is free so when my car tire needs it, why should I go pay for it at a gas station?
Just like some things you pay for arn't better, some free things aren't either.
To answer you rant on PDF. You don't have to buy Acrobat to view or create PDF files. Install Adobe Reader or ODFCReator are both free and they both create a PDF printer. I can creat a document using any word processor and then print is as a PDF.
I use GIMP at work because I need to do some simple photo editing here and there. It isn't worth it for us to go out and buy Photoshop. I don't thin GIMP is bad at all. And for simple editing tasks it is sufficient for a majority. But for a professional it isn't even close to being a replacement.
Asisde from the fact Asisfish said the gov't requires docs to be in Word format, what about those companies that need the macros of Excel? Or who need the special abilities of Word? Open Office would suffice for many...but why waste time downloading it? Windows already comes with WordPad which would be sufficent for typing generic documents. And most systems come with Works...which is better than WordPad and doesn't office the complex tools of Word. It rests so nice in the middle. And its free.
If free simply worked, then commercial software won't stand a chance. A company that has 25,000 employees would surely save a lot o money as oppose to buying MSFT licenses to Office and Windows if Open Office and Linux did what they needed it too do on huge scale. If Linux can become more desktop friendly then it sure could be more useful at home. But free software doesn't do what commercial software does.
Here are some things you can try for free.
Go build a car and see how close you can get to the commerical versions.
Go build a plane and seee how close you can get to the commercial.
Oh and there is a catch...you aren't allowed to BUY any components.
I don't think free software is bad..Windows has plenty of it...it is just commercial software is better.
Take something as simply as webpage editing....a very good programmer who knows HTML inside an out can code pages by simply using Notepad..or some other generic WYSIWYG editor. But what about peope who can and need to use features they are not familiar with? FrontPage would be sufficient...but what about on a professional level where you need to be able to program for the differences in teh browsers. Wouldn't Dreamweaver make more sense? Are there any free programs as good as Flash or Dreamwaver...? I doubt it.
Money matter...look what Apple did in 10 years....look what Microsoft did in 10 years...now look where Linux is...HUGE DIFFERENCE.
I am sure many companies would love to get away from commercialized software providing they can find free tools that do the exact same things. But they aren't going to find something that doesn't exist...just like sceentists are never going to find the missing link to man and ape...because there is non. Just like there is no caveman...just like reptiles aren't related to birds...and just like we aren't going to find aliens in space...These are just all illusions to waste our money...if they haven't found anything in 3 centuries...why would I believe they ever will? If Linux hasn't become main strean in all this time...why should I believe it ever will. Open Source software has been around for a while...Linux isn't the first and it won't be the last.
Linux is simply a movement for people like you who hate comercial based software...especially ones made by Microsoft.
#603
rasmasyean
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Posted 25 May 2009 - 10:45 AM
Incidentally, while we're on free software side-topics...
I was looking at MMORPG's and found that there are a lot of free ones out.
www.onrpg.com/
Those who aren't familiar with what those are...they are the epidome of online games. Massively multiplayer requires the most resources and initial investment to maintain. Most of them are on Windows (the advanced ones at least), a few are browser based, and I couldn't find one that supports Mac or Linux natively. So not only would you be lacking non-Windows support on retail games, you would also lose out on the most sophisticated free games as well that in the past required subscriptions.
Even if you don't play them yourselves, maybe you kid or niece/nephew would...or you want to keep some kid busy instead of wrecking the house, etc.
This is World of Warcraft for kiddies...and it's free! It even claims 12,000 quests (WoW has 8,700)! So if you wanna give some kid something to do or kill some time...check this out. Windows only!
Ether Sage Online
I was looking at MMORPG's and found that there are a lot of free ones out.
www.onrpg.com/
Those who aren't familiar with what those are...they are the epidome of online games. Massively multiplayer requires the most resources and initial investment to maintain. Most of them are on Windows (the advanced ones at least), a few are browser based, and I couldn't find one that supports Mac or Linux natively. So not only would you be lacking non-Windows support on retail games, you would also lose out on the most sophisticated free games as well that in the past required subscriptions.
Even if you don't play them yourselves, maybe you kid or niece/nephew would...or you want to keep some kid busy instead of wrecking the house, etc.
This is World of Warcraft for kiddies...and it's free! It even claims 12,000 quests (WoW has 8,700)! So if you wanna give some kid something to do or kill some time...check this out. Windows only!
Ether Sage Online
#604
artzy65
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Posted 25 May 2009 - 11:14 AM
"But for a professional it isn't even close to being a replacement."
Exactly.
"You don't have to buy Acrobat to view or create PDF files. Install Adobe Reader or ODFCReator are both free and they both create a PDF printer. I can creat a document using any word processor and then print is as a PDF."
Sure, but that method is really limited, compared to the sophistication of Acrobat Professional:
http://www.creativep...-9-professional
"...but what about on a professional level where you need to be able to program for the differences in teh browsers. Wouldn't Dreamweaver make more sense? Are there any free programs as good as Flash or Dreamwaver...?"
Good one... nothing out there comes within a light year of anything from the CS4 lineup:
http://tv.adobe.com
CS4 rocks.
Exactly.
"You don't have to buy Acrobat to view or create PDF files. Install Adobe Reader or ODFCReator are both free and they both create a PDF printer. I can creat a document using any word processor and then print is as a PDF."
Sure, but that method is really limited, compared to the sophistication of Acrobat Professional:
http://www.creativep...-9-professional
"...but what about on a professional level where you need to be able to program for the differences in teh browsers. Wouldn't Dreamweaver make more sense? Are there any free programs as good as Flash or Dreamwaver...?"
Good one... nothing out there comes within a light year of anything from the CS4 lineup:
http://tv.adobe.com
CS4 rocks.
#605
TechieXP
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Posted 25 May 2009 - 11:19 AM
Very cool. I loke WOW too...but I thought the cost was a bit extreme unless you simply have nothing but time to play it all day everyday and get your monies worth. I subscribed 2 times and I barely played it once a week for a couple hours. It would have been better if it had the option to just play it on my own computer. I love interactive play...but not at that cost.
Free stuff has its place. Some free thinbgs offer major benfits..and some don't.
As EvilDave said...some people will choose Coke and Pepsi no matter what else comes along. When you already feel you have the best...or you have what you like..why try anything else. Its all sugar water anyways...if it only costs 0.10...it certainly can't be as good as what cost 1.00. That is how the world has peopletrained right...? It muct me better...look how much it costs?
Cars, travel and even sex is deemed to be better if you pay more for it. Only a dummy would pay $10,000 to have crazy sex with a woem when he could ahve gotten it for free. All he is paying for is the look...the sex isn't better. Just like cars...with Benz and BMW all you are paying for is a look..the ride isn't that much better than a car costing 1/2. Its simply an illusion. It must be better because I paid more for it. A house that cost $400,000 isn't better than a house that cost $100,000...ist simply bigger. Bigger isn't always better....its just bigger...and means you have to lie, cheat and steal in oreder to keep it...
Free stuff has its place. Some free thinbgs offer major benfits..and some don't.
As EvilDave said...some people will choose Coke and Pepsi no matter what else comes along. When you already feel you have the best...or you have what you like..why try anything else. Its all sugar water anyways...if it only costs 0.10...it certainly can't be as good as what cost 1.00. That is how the world has peopletrained right...? It muct me better...look how much it costs?
Cars, travel and even sex is deemed to be better if you pay more for it. Only a dummy would pay $10,000 to have crazy sex with a woem when he could ahve gotten it for free. All he is paying for is the look...the sex isn't better. Just like cars...with Benz and BMW all you are paying for is a look..the ride isn't that much better than a car costing 1/2. Its simply an illusion. It must be better because I paid more for it. A house that cost $400,000 isn't better than a house that cost $100,000...ist simply bigger. Bigger isn't always better....its just bigger...and means you have to lie, cheat and steal in oreder to keep it...
#606
Evildave
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Posted 25 May 2009 - 11:24 AM
Edit web page WYSIWYG?
Lots of free software does that. SeaMonkey (a branch of formerly Mozilla) has a web page editor that works OK. It's been good enough for almost everything. All platforms.
Yes, look where Linux is. A very huge difference. It runs on practically everything, it's easy to use, has lots of software, and the price is right.
I have faith that America will continue to be stuck on Windoze just as it's still stuck on inches/gallons/Fahrenheit. Even when the whole rest of the world has moved on to more rational standards.
Lots of free software does that. SeaMonkey (a branch of formerly Mozilla) has a web page editor that works OK. It's been good enough for almost everything. All platforms.
Yes, look where Linux is. A very huge difference. It runs on practically everything, it's easy to use, has lots of software, and the price is right.
I have faith that America will continue to be stuck on Windoze just as it's still stuck on inches/gallons/Fahrenheit. Even when the whole rest of the world has moved on to more rational standards.
#607
TechieXP
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Posted 25 May 2009 - 11:32 AM
And in addition...
If Open-Source was so great, then MSFT wouldn't have been able to have Apple by the balls when it came to Office. MSFT use Office as leverage and even was going to pull the plug on it all together. If Open Office was even around and MSFT Office didn't matter, Apple could have simply jumped on the free alternative MSFT is the standard for Offce software.whether it is liked or not. Not everyone who uses Office likes it...they use it because they have to be compatibile with people who do. Yes there are lots of programs that can create PSD files...but can't you do with them what Photoshop can? No!
Even though Linux has gotten better it isn't even good enough to compete with its own close relative..OSX. So you surely can't pit it against Windows.
If you Google, you can find plenty of free programs for all 3 platforms that would be sufficent for common users. However, common users are surrounded by professional users. When they go to work they see Windows and Office...or OSX and Office..they don't see Linux and Open Office. Photoshop founds it home on Mac and then progressed to Windows...after having 2 offerings do we really need a 3rd?
If I took the time to use Linux and try to get it to a point that it is half as good as Windows or OSX, it would take me several months and a whole lot of lost time And my free time is free. So what a bout a company where every second on the clock of lost time is money?
Again a company will spem millions of licensing software vs just jumping on open-source. Why? Simple! Open-Source is for those who don't want to use closed source software. It is simply a movement to hate something. Larry Ellison hates MSFT so...so he is backing open-source. IBM hates MSFT, so they too are using open-source. Sun hates Microsoft and they too are open-source...I see a treand. Linux and Open-source is just the KKK of commercial software. They aren't promoting it to benefit you..they are only wanting to benefit themselves and to promote prejudice...espcially against Microsoft.
If Open-Source was so great, then MSFT wouldn't have been able to have Apple by the balls when it came to Office. MSFT use Office as leverage and even was going to pull the plug on it all together. If Open Office was even around and MSFT Office didn't matter, Apple could have simply jumped on the free alternative MSFT is the standard for Offce software.whether it is liked or not. Not everyone who uses Office likes it...they use it because they have to be compatibile with people who do. Yes there are lots of programs that can create PSD files...but can't you do with them what Photoshop can? No!
Even though Linux has gotten better it isn't even good enough to compete with its own close relative..OSX. So you surely can't pit it against Windows.
If you Google, you can find plenty of free programs for all 3 platforms that would be sufficent for common users. However, common users are surrounded by professional users. When they go to work they see Windows and Office...or OSX and Office..they don't see Linux and Open Office. Photoshop founds it home on Mac and then progressed to Windows...after having 2 offerings do we really need a 3rd?
If I took the time to use Linux and try to get it to a point that it is half as good as Windows or OSX, it would take me several months and a whole lot of lost time And my free time is free. So what a bout a company where every second on the clock of lost time is money?
Again a company will spem millions of licensing software vs just jumping on open-source. Why? Simple! Open-Source is for those who don't want to use closed source software. It is simply a movement to hate something. Larry Ellison hates MSFT so...so he is backing open-source. IBM hates MSFT, so they too are using open-source. Sun hates Microsoft and they too are open-source...I see a treand. Linux and Open-source is just the KKK of commercial software. They aren't promoting it to benefit you..they are only wanting to benefit themselves and to promote prejudice...espcially against Microsoft.
#608
TechieXP
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Posted 25 May 2009 - 11:48 AM
But we have gooten use to those standards. Remember America adopted its own standards to get away from those of our forefathers in England.
When I see weather and I see celcius...I don't have time to try to remember the formula to know the exact temperture. A gallon if more simple to remember, then remembering how many litres makes one. Its easier to remember how many inches make a foot...so when I am buy shoes I can remember what size i wear. It doesn't mean that the other things like celcius and litre and kilometers is bad.
Linux is not easy to use Its easy for YOU to use
If we pulled Windows and OSX off the shelf..I willing to bet that people would hold on to their older versions of Windows and wouldn't jump to linux until they had no choice. The only way that would happen is if Linux progressed to a point where it offered better then the other 2. I agree with you when you say Linux has gotten better...it certainly has...imagine where it would be if someone decided to put money into it. Oh wait someone did..and its called OSX...see how much difference money makes? Yea I know..OSX isn't Linux...but it is a variant of a bunch of nix based free software. As said..what Apple is selling is simply the GUI that is on top of it.
As far as web design. That program you mentioned I am not familiar...however I am betting it doesn't do what Dreamweaver does...or what FrontPage aka Expression does. I actually never liked Dreamwaver as I started with FrontPage. After Dreamweaver got easier to use by version 8...it was worth my investment as I didn't know web design enough to do all the coding. But Dreamweaver has helped quite a bit. But Open-source wasn't being pushed as much as they are trying to now. They are pusing it harder now IMHO because of 1 main reason.....MICROSOFT. Bill Gates is an old man...the assumption is that after he is dead...Microsoft's dominance will start to slip..and users will need an alternative. Same for Apple...We saw how much impact Steve being gone from Apple did to the company...it almost died. However both companys have very inspiring minds and they aren't going to just disappear tomorrow. Things become mainstream when people need it...right now we don't need Linux...maybe one day we will. Just like CUB fan believe one day they will actually win a World Series. Just like Scientist believe that one day all the ice on this planet will melt. Just like they believe that one day an earthquake will drop the whole west coast into the ocean and the desert will become the new west coast.
When I see weather and I see celcius...I don't have time to try to remember the formula to know the exact temperture. A gallon if more simple to remember, then remembering how many litres makes one. Its easier to remember how many inches make a foot...so when I am buy shoes I can remember what size i wear. It doesn't mean that the other things like celcius and litre and kilometers is bad.
Linux is not easy to use Its easy for YOU to use
If we pulled Windows and OSX off the shelf..I willing to bet that people would hold on to their older versions of Windows and wouldn't jump to linux until they had no choice. The only way that would happen is if Linux progressed to a point where it offered better then the other 2. I agree with you when you say Linux has gotten better...it certainly has...imagine where it would be if someone decided to put money into it. Oh wait someone did..and its called OSX...see how much difference money makes? Yea I know..OSX isn't Linux...but it is a variant of a bunch of nix based free software. As said..what Apple is selling is simply the GUI that is on top of it.
As far as web design. That program you mentioned I am not familiar...however I am betting it doesn't do what Dreamweaver does...or what FrontPage aka Expression does. I actually never liked Dreamwaver as I started with FrontPage. After Dreamweaver got easier to use by version 8...it was worth my investment as I didn't know web design enough to do all the coding. But Dreamweaver has helped quite a bit. But Open-source wasn't being pushed as much as they are trying to now. They are pusing it harder now IMHO because of 1 main reason.....MICROSOFT. Bill Gates is an old man...the assumption is that after he is dead...Microsoft's dominance will start to slip..and users will need an alternative. Same for Apple...We saw how much impact Steve being gone from Apple did to the company...it almost died. However both companys have very inspiring minds and they aren't going to just disappear tomorrow. Things become mainstream when people need it...right now we don't need Linux...maybe one day we will. Just like CUB fan believe one day they will actually win a World Series. Just like Scientist believe that one day all the ice on this planet will melt. Just like they believe that one day an earthquake will drop the whole west coast into the ocean and the desert will become the new west coast.
#609
Evildave
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Posted 25 May 2009 - 11:49 AM
TechieXP said:
Again a company will spem millions of licensing software vs just jumping on open-source. Why? Simple! Open-Source is for those who don't want to use closed source software. It is simply a movement to hate something. Larry Ellison hates MSFT so...so he is backing open-source. IBM hates MSFT, so they too are using open-source. Sun hates Microsoft and they too are open-source...I see a treand. Linux and Open-source is just the KKK of commercial software. They aren't promoting it to benefit you..they are only wanting to benefit themselves and to promote prejudice...espcially against Microsoft.
So you're going to liken open source advocacy with being a member of the KKK?
Really?
#610
artzy65
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Posted 25 May 2009 - 12:00 PM
"If you Google, you can find plenty of free programs for all 3 platforms that would be sufficent for common users. However, common users are surrounded by professional users"
Yeah, I've been using computers since 1995, and in those days dabbled in a lot those free/cheap/shareware apps that were trying to emulate the adobe stuff. Like wysiwyg web editors... what you saw was usually what you didn't want to get.
Consumers/amateurs don't recognize what professionals recognize in the design/production process; the result of which leads the 'free/cheap/open-source' advocate to mistakenly believe that his choice is superior because of price... in the meantime those apps simply won't come close to what is needed in a professional workflow.
Yeah, I've been using computers since 1995, and in those days dabbled in a lot those free/cheap/shareware apps that were trying to emulate the adobe stuff. Like wysiwyg web editors... what you saw was usually what you didn't want to get.
Consumers/amateurs don't recognize what professionals recognize in the design/production process; the result of which leads the 'free/cheap/open-source' advocate to mistakenly believe that his choice is superior because of price... in the meantime those apps simply won't come close to what is needed in a professional workflow.
#611
TechieXP
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Posted 25 May 2009 - 12:12 PM
yeah...
because it is driven by the same thing. HATE.
Your rants show that you hate Microsoft. Even people who are prejudice do things to benefit everyone..because they need support. Even cops hate minorities, but it is their job to protect everyone. But here is the difference...if I live in a minority location and I call the cops...its takes forever for one to show up. However if I go to an expensive surburb and call a cop...they are there in literally seconds..nad several show up. Why? I already know why.
Open-Source is good in many respects if you can use it.
Right now companies are finding a way to pinch every single dime. Right now drop MSFT would seem to be a good move. Jump on Linux and help it move up. But they aren't. I am not saying everyone who uses open-source hates MSFT...but most of them as far as I can tell do. Open-source is great for people to find alternatives to software they are likely to not be able to afford. However if you can afford a Windows or APple based computer...then you can also afford the software that goes on it. Or at least you can find reasonable priced ones that work. Can't afoord Photoshop? There is Photoshop Essentials. Can't afford Dreamwaver? There is always FrontPage/Expressions...or you can even use MSFT Word to do some HTML. Can't afford VMware...there is MSFT VPC or VirtualBox. Can't afford Symantec? There is AVG. Can afford Nero? XP and Vista and OSX offer native basic CD burning..and there are a host of free appz. In fact I am betting you can find a free app for every comeercial based one. But why are people still buying the commercial ones? Not just out of habit. How are is it to Google this = Free (whatever software i need) and you will find 100's of results. Now which one do you pick? Geez I never hear of GIMP, but maybe I will try it. In my case I never heeard of GIMP until I saw you mention it here. Now I use it at work. But I don't need it at home. I have CS3 and CS4. I use VirtualBox at home and I use VMware too. But I use free software because I too HATE some commercial based programs...butI hate the extreme cost...not the programs themselves. An if I can find a free programs that does exactly teh same I would use them. There aren't any.
I don't hate Windows and I don't like WIndows. I like the fact Windows is easy to use. So I use it. I don't hate OSX and I don't like OSX...I don't use it because to me it isn't as good as Windows...its the same thing with a different approach. I don't hate Linux and I don't link Linux because it is simply to hard for everyday usage and it does offer what the others do. But I use open-source stuff because I HATE paying out huge sums of money. But I don't have much choice. I still have to buy Office...but in my case OO would be perfect as I don't have a special use for word or excel...however people I work with do...so thus I have to have it. I am betting that is true of the majority. I am betting many businesses don't like to pay and hate MSFT licensing...however their business is built around the tools...and thus they need them. If they would have found an equal replacement for free they'd be the first to use it. You can't use what isn't there.
Oh and saying Open-Source being like the KKK may have been a bit strong...and I am not saying I am right...it is simply my opinion. But the way you address MSFT and their software, I don't see no difference. There is no way to sugar cost HATE. You hate Microsoft and I know you do because your post show how much. I am betting that when you see the Windows logo...you just want to burn it and set it in Bill Gates yard :-) ----- sarcasm.
because it is driven by the same thing. HATE.
Your rants show that you hate Microsoft. Even people who are prejudice do things to benefit everyone..because they need support. Even cops hate minorities, but it is their job to protect everyone. But here is the difference...if I live in a minority location and I call the cops...its takes forever for one to show up. However if I go to an expensive surburb and call a cop...they are there in literally seconds..nad several show up. Why? I already know why.
Open-Source is good in many respects if you can use it.
Right now companies are finding a way to pinch every single dime. Right now drop MSFT would seem to be a good move. Jump on Linux and help it move up. But they aren't. I am not saying everyone who uses open-source hates MSFT...but most of them as far as I can tell do. Open-source is great for people to find alternatives to software they are likely to not be able to afford. However if you can afford a Windows or APple based computer...then you can also afford the software that goes on it. Or at least you can find reasonable priced ones that work. Can't afoord Photoshop? There is Photoshop Essentials. Can't afford Dreamwaver? There is always FrontPage/Expressions...or you can even use MSFT Word to do some HTML. Can't afford VMware...there is MSFT VPC or VirtualBox. Can't afford Symantec? There is AVG. Can afford Nero? XP and Vista and OSX offer native basic CD burning..and there are a host of free appz. In fact I am betting you can find a free app for every comeercial based one. But why are people still buying the commercial ones? Not just out of habit. How are is it to Google this = Free (whatever software i need) and you will find 100's of results. Now which one do you pick? Geez I never hear of GIMP, but maybe I will try it. In my case I never heeard of GIMP until I saw you mention it here. Now I use it at work. But I don't need it at home. I have CS3 and CS4. I use VirtualBox at home and I use VMware too. But I use free software because I too HATE some commercial based programs...butI hate the extreme cost...not the programs themselves. An if I can find a free programs that does exactly teh same I would use them. There aren't any.
I don't hate Windows and I don't like WIndows. I like the fact Windows is easy to use. So I use it. I don't hate OSX and I don't like OSX...I don't use it because to me it isn't as good as Windows...its the same thing with a different approach. I don't hate Linux and I don't link Linux because it is simply to hard for everyday usage and it does offer what the others do. But I use open-source stuff because I HATE paying out huge sums of money. But I don't have much choice. I still have to buy Office...but in my case OO would be perfect as I don't have a special use for word or excel...however people I work with do...so thus I have to have it. I am betting that is true of the majority. I am betting many businesses don't like to pay and hate MSFT licensing...however their business is built around the tools...and thus they need them. If they would have found an equal replacement for free they'd be the first to use it. You can't use what isn't there.
Oh and saying Open-Source being like the KKK may have been a bit strong...and I am not saying I am right...it is simply my opinion. But the way you address MSFT and their software, I don't see no difference. There is no way to sugar cost HATE. You hate Microsoft and I know you do because your post show how much. I am betting that when you see the Windows logo...you just want to burn it and set it in Bill Gates yard :-) ----- sarcasm.
#612
WinTard
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Posted 25 May 2009 - 12:22 PM
I'd say open-source is good. It is the fanatics that are bad. And most if not all open-source works under Windows as well... Proving Windows, Linux and OS X are mere transient things, no big deal.
Who cares about the OS? Since they all run anywhere and everywhere? And perform the same functions in the end?
Those who don't want to pay, it's there.
Those who want Apple, by preference, no problem.
Those who want Windows, by preference, no problem either,
Yet they all run on any standard PC...
I'll go even further, and state Apple is a good company with good products (albeit at a 'premium' price). It's the fanatics that are bad; a bit like the Spanish Inquisition...
Who cares about the OS? Since they all run anywhere and everywhere? And perform the same functions in the end?
Those who don't want to pay, it's there.
Those who want Apple, by preference, no problem.
Those who want Windows, by preference, no problem either,
Yet they all run on any standard PC...
I'll go even further, and state Apple is a good company with good products (albeit at a 'premium' price). It's the fanatics that are bad; a bit like the Spanish Inquisition...
#613
TechieXP
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Posted 25 May 2009 - 12:22 PM
it is safe to say:
free isn't better, its simply jus free.
expensive isn't better, its simply more expensive.
skinny girls are the most beautiful, they are just skinny.
etc etc etc
just like this thread...which is better for buisness...niether is better.
Which one is better is what you picked that works.
If I marry a fat girl, how dare you come to me and said I can do better if I had a skinnier one. I chose what I felt was better for mw know what the alternatives were. I chose what I like. You don't have to like my choice...just repect it. As I will repect yours.
I think guys who chose to use Linux are an elite group because it does take gonads to say...I want something different. But it should be for the right reason. Linux may be free, but you still ahve to buy the same hardware to use it. If I go out an buy a system ti isn't going to have linux on it unless I request it or buy a netbook. However when I need software...unless I am a hermit and I have no outside contact with the world...there is no way you can get by with having the commercials brands.
Even tho stores are filled with generic items, we all know brand names taste better. That si why they cost more. However simple foods..like rice and sugar and flour are all the same no matter what the package looks like. So for that stuff there is no benefit to brand names. And software is similar. There are a few freebies that are just as good as the ones you buy. But there aren't enough of them.
free isn't better, its simply jus free.
expensive isn't better, its simply more expensive.
skinny girls are the most beautiful, they are just skinny.
etc etc etc
just like this thread...which is better for buisness...niether is better.
Which one is better is what you picked that works.
If I marry a fat girl, how dare you come to me and said I can do better if I had a skinnier one. I chose what I felt was better for mw know what the alternatives were. I chose what I like. You don't have to like my choice...just repect it. As I will repect yours.
I think guys who chose to use Linux are an elite group because it does take gonads to say...I want something different. But it should be for the right reason. Linux may be free, but you still ahve to buy the same hardware to use it. If I go out an buy a system ti isn't going to have linux on it unless I request it or buy a netbook. However when I need software...unless I am a hermit and I have no outside contact with the world...there is no way you can get by with having the commercials brands.
Even tho stores are filled with generic items, we all know brand names taste better. That si why they cost more. However simple foods..like rice and sugar and flour are all the same no matter what the package looks like. So for that stuff there is no benefit to brand names. And software is similar. There are a few freebies that are just as good as the ones you buy. But there aren't enough of them.
#614
WinTard
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Posted 25 May 2009 - 12:27 PM
I agree with you TechieXP, there is no ultimate best.
Merely personal preferences.
It is morally wrong for anybody to attack somebody else's choices in life...
Only immature people play this game, of stepping onto others, just to make themselves adequate or reassure themselves and vindicate their choices... Due to a lack of self-esteem, and huge chips on their shoulders...
Dear friends, this isn't an attack onto anybody else. As I have been guilty of 'proving' this or that in the heat of the argument, just like so many others...
~~~~~~~~~~
I have been a selfish being all my life, in practice, though not in principle.
~ Jane Austen (British Novelist and Writer, 1775-1817
Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live; it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.
~ Oscar Wilde (Irish Poet, Novelist, Dramatist and Critic, 1854-1900)
Merely personal preferences.
It is morally wrong for anybody to attack somebody else's choices in life...
Only immature people play this game, of stepping onto others, just to make themselves adequate or reassure themselves and vindicate their choices... Due to a lack of self-esteem, and huge chips on their shoulders...
Dear friends, this isn't an attack onto anybody else. As I have been guilty of 'proving' this or that in the heat of the argument, just like so many others...
~~~~~~~~~~
I have been a selfish being all my life, in practice, though not in principle.
~ Jane Austen (British Novelist and Writer, 1775-1817
Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live; it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.
~ Oscar Wilde (Irish Poet, Novelist, Dramatist and Critic, 1854-1900)
#615
TechieXP
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Posted 25 May 2009 - 12:32 PM
I agree.
A fan of a product will always say they are good evene when they aren't. Right CUBS fans? A team that hasn't won a World Series in a centurt seems like a complete waste of money. No wonder the Tribune is going down.
Not every industry has to have a winner. Thus Apple. Apple is proof you don't need too be number one to win at something. And they are not alone. Money isn't everyones driving force in every industry. For MSFT money probably is because they are so big and so mnay are dependant on them, that they can't afford to lose any money. Just like Doctors. However in both iindustries there are enough cleints to insure they will make enough money that they don't have to price gouge. Open-Source is proof you can make good software and it doesn't have to have extreme cost.
A fan of a product will always say they are good evene when they aren't. Right CUBS fans? A team that hasn't won a World Series in a centurt seems like a complete waste of money. No wonder the Tribune is going down.
Not every industry has to have a winner. Thus Apple. Apple is proof you don't need too be number one to win at something. And they are not alone. Money isn't everyones driving force in every industry. For MSFT money probably is because they are so big and so mnay are dependant on them, that they can't afford to lose any money. Just like Doctors. However in both iindustries there are enough cleints to insure they will make enough money that they don't have to price gouge. Open-Source is proof you can make good software and it doesn't have to have extreme cost.
#616
asiafish
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Posted 25 May 2009 - 12:59 PM
TechieXP said:
Very cool. I loke WOW too...but I thought the cost was a bit extreme unless you simply have nothing but time to play it all day everyday and get your monies worth. I subscribed 2 times and I barely played it once a week for a couple hours. It would have been better if it had the option to just play it on my own computer. I love interactive play...but not at that cost.
Free stuff has its place. Some free thinbgs offer major benfits..and some don't.
As EvilDave said...some people will choose Coke and Pepsi no matter what else comes along. When you already feel you have the best...or you have what you like..why try anything else. Its all sugar water anyways...if it only costs 0.10...it certainly can't be as good as what cost 1.00. That is how the world has peopletrained right...? It muct me better...look how much it costs?
Cars, travel and even sex is deemed to be better if you pay more for it. Only a dummy would pay $10,000 to have crazy sex with a woem when he could ahve gotten it for free. All he is paying for is the look...the sex isn't better. Just like cars...with Benz and BMW all you are paying for is a look..the ride isn't that much better than a car costing 1/2. Its simply an illusion. It must be better because I paid more for it. A house that cost $400,000 isn't better than a house that cost $100,000...ist simply bigger. Bigger isn't always better....its just bigger...and means you have to lie, cheat and steal in oreder to keep it...
Free stuff has its place. Some free thinbgs offer major benfits..and some don't.
As EvilDave said...some people will choose Coke and Pepsi no matter what else comes along. When you already feel you have the best...or you have what you like..why try anything else. Its all sugar water anyways...if it only costs 0.10...it certainly can't be as good as what cost 1.00. That is how the world has peopletrained right...? It muct me better...look how much it costs?
Cars, travel and even sex is deemed to be better if you pay more for it. Only a dummy would pay $10,000 to have crazy sex with a woem when he could ahve gotten it for free. All he is paying for is the look...the sex isn't better. Just like cars...with Benz and BMW all you are paying for is a look..the ride isn't that much better than a car costing 1/2. Its simply an illusion. It must be better because I paid more for it. A house that cost $400,000 isn't better than a house that cost $100,000...ist simply bigger. Bigger isn't always better....its just bigger...and means you have to lie, cheat and steal in oreder to keep it...
Obviously you don't drive a Mercedes or BMW. Yes, the ride really is better than that of a car that costs half as much, MUCH better. In fact, its so good that you have to pay, what a shock, about the same to match it. Lexus, Audi, Cadillac (the new CTS rocks) and Acura all offer ride as good as BMW or Mercedes (usually softer, but equal in quality), but of course, those brands all cost about the same.
#617
TechieXP
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Posted 25 May 2009 - 01:54 PM
My first car after high school was a used 318i. I earned it because I agreed to go through 4 years of high school without and allowance and lunch money for school for 4 years and I also worked a part time job throsing papers as a junior and I worked at McDonald's making 3.35hr as a senior. And I wanted to go to college and I wanted to be impressive. It was a very nice car...but there were better ones even then and even now. I am not saying they are bad cars. I said there are bettering ones that cost only 1/2 as much...OH and tha car..even the simpleset of repair cost way to much. Example...it cost me close to $1200 to get 4 brake rotors replaces and pads....my dad had a Chrysler that had 4 wheeled disks...he paid just over 1/2 to get the same work done.
Yes they ride somooth. Yes they are quiet. And yes when they break they cost more. After that car I refused to buy another import. However when I settle down I boguth 1 more. I bought a Hyundai. Of course they are so much better now. Look the Genesis won JD Power and Associates rewards. It passed a 5 start crash test..the same one the 5 series BMW which cost 2x's as much failed.I can get a Lexus and pay less and still have a car that on many levels is better. The car I drive now? 300M? It has space. Lots of it..without buying some over-priced import. I like it becaus eit is cury...compared to its boxy sibling the 300C. I put 20 inchs rim on it that are wide and use low profile tires to make it ride even smoother and I added a moon-rrof and spoiler to give it a more sporty look. And I bet it rides just as nice as your car and it cost me less than $25k to have it all. What did you pay? And it still only takes me 3 1/2 tanks of gas to drive too my old place in Sarasota Florida from Chicago.
I never liked big cars...as I always like smaller 4 cylinders...then after getting this car I won't even go back to a 4 cylinder. My next car will only have 2 doors. Will be American made...and it will still cost less then an import. Will have agreesive styling and more. All for less. Even if I made 6 figures like you do, I still wouldn't drive a Benz or Mercedes. Those cars are driven for status not need. It is your taste in cars...I respect your taste. I'm surprised you don't drive a Jaq or a Porsche. Again if you can afford an expensive car...you can afford the cost of the repairs. However you notice something with people who own those? They don't drive them everyday...and they try to only drive them in rural or suburban areas. Why? Because the cost for maintence and repairs is skyhigh. If I can't drive a car everyday...if I have to be scared if someone hits me...then I don't want to own it. Just like a computer. If I drop my pc its nice to know it is covered @ no extra cost. Can you say that? My car is less likely to get stolen. Can you say that? And my repairs don't cost an arm and a leg...can you say that? Just because you make a lot of money doesn't mean you have to waste it. I personally know the value of money...I grew up in a poor family. Now that I have...I don't want to be without. However I could survive on very little...Can you say that?
I am curious. If the USa closed its borders..and didn't allow imports....what would you drive? I could be happy with a SMART car...could you? I am not impressed by ,uxury items. They are nice to have for those who choose to buy them. I have no problem with people spending money on expensive things. It isn't my money why do I car. I just find it funny when I see them on the side of the road asking for a jump in the middle of Winter. All that extra money and the car still won't start. Wow for 50 grand you'd think they give you a better battery.
Yes they ride somooth. Yes they are quiet. And yes when they break they cost more. After that car I refused to buy another import. However when I settle down I boguth 1 more. I bought a Hyundai. Of course they are so much better now. Look the Genesis won JD Power and Associates rewards. It passed a 5 start crash test..the same one the 5 series BMW which cost 2x's as much failed.I can get a Lexus and pay less and still have a car that on many levels is better. The car I drive now? 300M? It has space. Lots of it..without buying some over-priced import. I like it becaus eit is cury...compared to its boxy sibling the 300C. I put 20 inchs rim on it that are wide and use low profile tires to make it ride even smoother and I added a moon-rrof and spoiler to give it a more sporty look. And I bet it rides just as nice as your car and it cost me less than $25k to have it all. What did you pay? And it still only takes me 3 1/2 tanks of gas to drive too my old place in Sarasota Florida from Chicago.
I never liked big cars...as I always like smaller 4 cylinders...then after getting this car I won't even go back to a 4 cylinder. My next car will only have 2 doors. Will be American made...and it will still cost less then an import. Will have agreesive styling and more. All for less. Even if I made 6 figures like you do, I still wouldn't drive a Benz or Mercedes. Those cars are driven for status not need. It is your taste in cars...I respect your taste. I'm surprised you don't drive a Jaq or a Porsche. Again if you can afford an expensive car...you can afford the cost of the repairs. However you notice something with people who own those? They don't drive them everyday...and they try to only drive them in rural or suburban areas. Why? Because the cost for maintence and repairs is skyhigh. If I can't drive a car everyday...if I have to be scared if someone hits me...then I don't want to own it. Just like a computer. If I drop my pc its nice to know it is covered @ no extra cost. Can you say that? My car is less likely to get stolen. Can you say that? And my repairs don't cost an arm and a leg...can you say that? Just because you make a lot of money doesn't mean you have to waste it. I personally know the value of money...I grew up in a poor family. Now that I have...I don't want to be without. However I could survive on very little...Can you say that?
I am curious. If the USa closed its borders..and didn't allow imports....what would you drive? I could be happy with a SMART car...could you? I am not impressed by ,uxury items. They are nice to have for those who choose to buy them. I have no problem with people spending money on expensive things. It isn't my money why do I car. I just find it funny when I see them on the side of the road asking for a jump in the middle of Winter. All that extra money and the car still won't start. Wow for 50 grand you'd think they give you a better battery.
#618
TechieXP
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Posted 25 May 2009 - 02:10 PM
Oh..and you actually don't have to buy a Lexus or an Infinity or even an Acura. In fact for about $30K...i can list at least 10 cars that will perfrom just as good as what you drive, still look calssy and can be fixed up with all the trimings as your Benz and still cost 10's of thousands less: !http://www.privatefleet.com.au/images/upload/Image/Chrysler-300C-002.jpg|thumbnail=true! !http://www.tintdude.com/images/toyota_avalon01.jpg|thumbnail=true!
http://www.newcarbuy...AccordEXL01.jpg
http://www.gotryke.c...ssan-maxima.jpg
http://media.2theadv.../images/LincolnMKZ042007.jpg
Now there are 5 to get you started...
Want the other 5?
http://www.newcarbuy...AccordEXL01.jpg
http://www.gotryke.c...ssan-maxima.jpg
http://media.2theadv.../images/LincolnMKZ042007.jpg
Now there are 5 to get you started...
Want the other 5?
#620
Evildave
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Posted 25 May 2009 - 02:24 PM
If you don't think Microsoft is 'evil', you just don't know enough about them. Really. You're still in the stage of telling us how the trains run on time ever since the fascists took over.
The problem is, people 'hate' Microsoft for the same reason they hated Standard Oil, Halliburton, etc. They're evil. Why should I NOT despise evil wherever I see it? You may as well tell me to 'love' Chevron after they killed the electric car and kept it dead for over a DECADE. (No I don't buy their gas, either.)
Keep in mind that Sun bought StarOffice and set up OpenOffice because they didn't want to buy Microsoft machines to sit next to their Sun machines for their employees (about 40,000 of them at the time). So instead of buying PCs for every desk, and Office licenses, and contributing mightily to Micro$oft - also a direct competitor who would use their licensing audits to SPY ON SUN, they got rid of them.
As for ODF (what OpenOffice writes/reads natively) not being a 'standard', Microsoft is the one who put in a competing XML 'standard', and then a BENT version of ODF support into Office just to try to hijack the standard (their normal practice for adopting open standards - warp, subvert, destroy).
Microsoft practically goes to WAR with any state that considers ODF as a standard file format. They love astroturfing (i.e. paying shills to complain to the government as if they are 'grass roots'). Massachusetts won.
http://en.wikipedia....n#Massachusetts
Worldwide, ODF (which OpenOffice writes natively) is gaining momentum with governments. After all, why DEMAND your citizens PAY MICROSOFT for the privilege of doing any kind of business with the government? This is probably excellent class-action fodder for every state in the union that's not already standardized on ODF. So before you know it, you might be exporting ODF from your Microsoft software and wondering why you're paying for the next 'upgrade'. Or not. Most sheeple don't think about anything like that. They just keep doing what they always do.
http://en.wikipedia....cument_adoption
The problem is, people 'hate' Microsoft for the same reason they hated Standard Oil, Halliburton, etc. They're evil. Why should I NOT despise evil wherever I see it? You may as well tell me to 'love' Chevron after they killed the electric car and kept it dead for over a DECADE. (No I don't buy their gas, either.)
Keep in mind that Sun bought StarOffice and set up OpenOffice because they didn't want to buy Microsoft machines to sit next to their Sun machines for their employees (about 40,000 of them at the time). So instead of buying PCs for every desk, and Office licenses, and contributing mightily to Micro$oft - also a direct competitor who would use their licensing audits to SPY ON SUN, they got rid of them.
As for ODF (what OpenOffice writes/reads natively) not being a 'standard', Microsoft is the one who put in a competing XML 'standard', and then a BENT version of ODF support into Office just to try to hijack the standard (their normal practice for adopting open standards - warp, subvert, destroy).
Microsoft practically goes to WAR with any state that considers ODF as a standard file format. They love astroturfing (i.e. paying shills to complain to the government as if they are 'grass roots'). Massachusetts won.
http://en.wikipedia....n#Massachusetts
Worldwide, ODF (which OpenOffice writes natively) is gaining momentum with governments. After all, why DEMAND your citizens PAY MICROSOFT for the privilege of doing any kind of business with the government? This is probably excellent class-action fodder for every state in the union that's not already standardized on ODF. So before you know it, you might be exporting ODF from your Microsoft software and wondering why you're paying for the next 'upgrade'. Or not. Most sheeple don't think about anything like that. They just keep doing what they always do.
http://en.wikipedia....cument_adoption
