[quackadilly]

My fault. Should have said "anti-trust".

Good catch.

[quackadilly]

You know what.....it is Microsoft's fault that they are a "virtual monopoly" for making a product that 89% of the market buys and uses. What should they do? Tell half of them "sorry, you can't buy that. We'll make too much money and have too much of the market" ?



They made a product that people like and buy. They are good at what they do. So sue them if you're not at their level of expertise......good solution. They worked hard to get to where they are, just as Apple has. They took different paths and ended up in different places.

[quackadilly]

"I'm likely to be banned from this site for "personal attacks," based on an oppressive policy that doesn't allow for people to express their anger or outrage in response to mindless, provocative posts. I have no problem with that."



If you learn to control your anger and communicate in a reasonable manner this would not be the case. You don't have to insult anyone to prove your point. Just provide the real data that supports your argument. Calling people names does not make you right.

[NYSkater]

Spot on.

MSFT knew very well that and how they were dominating their market, and they took advantage of this. Good for them.

Anyone who either believes or states that this decision to exploit their advantage was natural, reasonable, or simply clumsy is either stupid beyond comprehension or holds an intense bias that they have no capacity to either see or acknowledge.

Holding monopoly status is not illegal. In fact, when it works well, it's well supported by consumers, industry partners and government. When MSFT was dragged into court, kicking and screaming, they were spending tens of millions of dollars in lobbying fees that the installed government favored. Their nominal competitors had virtually nothing to contribute and, more than this, weren't on the short list of favored corporations.

Yet the DOJ installed at that time went after them anyway.

How does one explain this?

Here's the stupid answer: "Whoops! We inadvertently forced people to use Internet Explorer with every copy of our overpriced OS. Our bad. Yet, it's cheaper for us to pay a government fine than it is to co-opt, buy-out, or destroy our competitors."

Bill Gates testimony in this case continues to be a disgrace. Lies, deceptions, and evasions.

I like the man. He does a great deal of humanitarian and entrepunerial work. I do believe that he cares a great deal about things that have nothing to do with increasing his fortune. But he also made a fatal error when he decided that the way to be a good person was to destroy other people's lives by imposing his considerable strength and leverage.

When is it the case that the end no longer justifies the means?

[NYSkater]

MSFT made a great business decision by breaking the Sherman Anti-Trust Law in restraint of trade.

They made themselves bigger and stronger, and got a raft load of free PR.

The only ones who suffered from this strategy was their shareholders.

[NYSkater]

What they should do is tell people like you, that if and when you invest in our products, we're ultimately going to screw you. Yet, you will sing our praises on low-rent Internet Web sites.

You are living proof that this strategy works.
Message was edited by: smax013 - no personal attacks please

[quackadilly]

"What they should do is tell people like you, that if and when you invest in our products, we're ultimately going to screw you. Yet, you will sing our praises on low-rent Internet Web sites."



Right.....MS's plan was just that..... Where do you come up with this stuff? How am I getting screwed? I've been using the same OS since 2001 and it's worked great for the last 8 years. How is that screwing me? Please enlighten me.

[TechieXP]

Netfinity is history. Everything IBM sells now is client/server based. Their only "workstations" are servers that are accessed through thin clients. IBM does not sell personal computers (PCs) anymore, they sold their entire PC business to Lenovo.

You statement was I didn't know what I was talking about...yet you simply said what I said. I had already said...IBM no longer sold consumer based hardware...they still make Servers and Workstations...That is all I said...and you said exactly what I said. So if if you parrot me then either we are both wrong or we are both right. So which is it..make up your mind.

I already know IBM no longer makes the ThinkPad. As far as I can remember that is the only consumer based hardware they had after they stopped making desktops years ago.

[TechieXP]

A monopoly is what ATT had because they we the only phone company here as they are the Bell that started it all.
MSFT certainly has had and still has competitors...meaning by true definition...they don't have a monopoly. The don't own 100% of the OS market...they have 89% known market.

I never accept teh monopoly advantage...what they have is a dominate position in this industry where they certainly have used monopolistic practices which has teh DOJ on them and they deserve it to a point. However while DOJ is spend tax-payer money on keeping MSFT compliant...others are break anti-trust laws as well. The focus shouldn't just be on them.

[TechieXP]

of course and I agree

And right there is where you continually miss it. Apple is not out to beat Microsoft. They don't compete against Microsoft. They don't play Microsoft's game. They compete against Dell, HP, Asus, Lenovo, etc. Apple is first and foremost a hardware manufacturer.

I have said in other threads that I don't believe that Apple will ever have more than about 15% (and that is likely pushing it) of the OS market share without filling some holes in their computer line up (or allowing clones to do it...but clones present other problems) or somehow seriously breaking into the enterprise market. Thus, I don't ever believe Apple will "beat" Microsoft.

Now, Apple does "beat up on" Microsoft and Windows in their marketing because all those Dells, HPs, Lenovos, etc all run Windows. And the main thing that really differentiates Apple's computers from Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc is the OS. Thus, from a marketing point of view, the more Apple can make Windows look bad, the more likely people might be to buy a Mac...which means more sales of Apple hardware, which makes Apple (and their stockholders) happy.

[TechieXP]

What does stock option have to do with anything...?
Stick option have nothing to do with me deciding what to purchase. Only people who like to gamble with money watch stocks all day.
They mean nothing to the rest of us. Stocks just means a company is doing well enough for people to invest and make more money. It has nothing to do with what happens with a consumer credit card or cash when making a purchase.

Popularity makes a difference.

Example...Blackberry...I can tell you right now..I see planty of people who have them not because they actually need or use all the features. They buy it because it is a great looking phone and it is popular...just like iPhone is popular, just like iPod is popular...

Even computers have popular brands...one reason why Dell and HP are on top...not because they are big...not just because they sell more...they sale more because they are more popular among people who feel their computers are better than other brands...popularity is a selling point. Just like with Macs. They are popular in use as far as music/video reproduction, education, desktop publishing, 3D rendering...they are popular in those cases and thus are purchase mostly in those businesses...and becaise of that more people will buy Macs if they do that type of work even if a Windows PC can certainly do the same job just as easier.

That why they are calls fads...its about what is in and what is out. The computer industry is built on what is in and what is out...USB is IN...Firewire is OUT...DVD is IN...DVD-RAM is OUT.

What makes a product popular...how about people just running out and buying them. You ever seen long line at an Apple Store to buy a Mac? NO! It is Apple least popular item. However on the release of iPod and iPhone there were lines for days...

Geez do you have to hang on every word? Me saying Macs are popular wasn't taking a hit on Apple...its market shows it is a least popular item. Computers in general are popular items...but not ever brand is...look what computer companys are in the top 5...do you see Apple in the top 5? Acer being fairly new is even above them...come on man...

[artzy65]

"I'm likely to be banned from this site for "personal attacks," based on an oppressive policy that doesn't allow for people to express their anger or outrage in response to mindless, provocative posts. I have no problem with that."
The key word here is 'provocative'... the trick is to not react to any post emotionally. Calm down and don't flame at all... there's nothing gained by doing so; besides, the other person will feel disrespected? and you can't blame them.

Yell at me, I won't hear you.
Speak to me, I'll listen
?anonymous

[bcappel]

NYSkater said:

Where am I? In Stalin's Russia?

Pardon me, but your definition of so-called personal attacks smacks of fascism.

If you can't follow a few simple rules, then you are no longer welcome here.

Good bye.

[rgreen4]

With over 52 pages of comments, everything that needs to be said about the original discussion has been made. Numerous off topic and problems posts have resulted. This thread is now locked.