[TechieXP]

A cheap kia costing about $13...got a 5 star rating in a crash test that a BMW 5 Series failed...

[WinTard]

Sorry for the OT:

Quality and Price are never proportional...

Same goes for a Toyota Corolla, or Honda Civic, vs BMW or Mercedes. Dollar for dollar, you get way much more quality, sophistication, refinements and value in the Corolla or Civic versus any luxury brand.

Oh, just look at youtube for comparisons between Corolla XRS or Civic Si, and any performance car out there... Results are eye opening. A Stock Corolla XRS 1.8 L 4 or Civic Si 2.0 L 4 will easily take on (and win) over a BMW 3 series, or a Police Package Dodge Challenger souped up Hemi V8. Don't believe me? Check it out! Well that is MY experience... Both my cars rev-limiter cut-off at 8650 RPM.

Everybody knows performance is a function of HP/weight ratio. Try to catch a 600cc 15500 rpm superbike that does 0-60 in less than 2 seconds in any exotic car!

Did anyone know that the Lotus Exige and Lotus Elise have the same identical engine and six-speed transmission from Toyota (2ZZ-GE) as a Corolla XRS? And in a 1980 pounds car, it will do 0-60 in 3.9 seconds... (The Lotus Exige Supercharged that is...)

It's not displacement or # of cylinders, it's technology, high-RPM's and low weight that count. Ever wonder why those million-dollar formula 1 cars rev so high?

For more on these high tech engines: http://www.sandsmuse...ine/toyota.html


Back to topic... ;)

[dragon69]

yeah but which ones have the better computers . . . toyota?



lol just kidding around



gl and tc



:-)

[Cyborg2012]

This message is intended for Bandit4556

Well, dude Mac is only for guys who don't like to play. In Windows there are loads of fun which you can't get in a Mac PC. For instance, you can make your own virus (or accept others virus). It is rich in features like the new Silverlight and .Net Technologies. and also you have lots of programming languages available. You have the registry which is a good thing.

The Mac kernel is also bad. for instance all the thing running in a Mac are like different instance of same program.

[WinTard]

Well, obviously the cheaper yet more powerful one! Computer that is... :D

~~~~~~~~~~
Problems cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them.
~ Albert Einstein (German born American Physicist who developed the special and general theories of relativity. Nobel Prize for Physics in 1921. 1879-1955)

[waldojim]

So the Kia then? or is it Nissan?

I can't remember who has the $9,990 car

[dragon69]

well Queen of Quotes PC World has two list ( one for desktops and one for mobile cpus) for intel processors as to which support VT ( virtualization technology) and those ones will be able to use the " Win XP mode " in Win7 RC and all the will not



but if you do have a AMD cpu that was made in the last 3 or so years it should support the Wiin XP mode



sorry to go off topic but you brought up Win XP mode earlier



GL and TC

[evilkillerwhale]

Are you joking?

The guy says he built a $4000 computer. Technically, he said $400, but I'm assuming that's a typo (if he's comparing a $400 pc to a MacBook Pro, then I have no reason to make fun of him. He's mentally handicapped at that point). You take the best MoBO out there (probably the Asus Rampage II Extreme. I mean, it has a ridiculous QPI, triple channel memory clocked at 1800MHz. Who the heck builds a high end machine with 1066MHz? My laptop has faster RAM than that).

Front Side Bus? Nice job throwing around terms. It's QPI at this point, assuming you're comparing the Intel based systems.

So let's build a $4000 computer, shall we? We know he had a GeForce 280, so let's assume it's the most expensive one eVGA makes at 270 dollars to the door.

Let's put in the core i7 for $999.
Now a motherboard to fit: The EVGA 141-BL-E759-A1 LGA 1366 Intel X58 SLI Classified ATX Intel Motherboard for $450
Now we need some nifty RAM: We have 6 slots: Let's put in the most expensive RAM newegg has:
2x OCZ Blade Series 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2000 (PC3 16000) Desktop Memory Model OCZ3B2000LV6GK for $430

Now a power supply:
PC Power & Cooling PPCT1200ESA 1200W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready Active PFC Power Supply $600 with a $50 mail in rebate

Now a Case: ZALMAN EXTREME HYBRID LQ1000 Black Aluminum Alloy ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
It's water cooled. For only $800
current total: $3230

So now I need $770 of HDD's... let's throw in some velociraptors, eh? Well, no, they aren't the most expensive, nor the fastest. Let's go HP
2x HP 375872-B21 147GB 15000 RPM Serial Attached SCSI (SAS) 3.5" Hard Drive $720
Now we need a storage drive for files, because 300Gb just isn't cutting it...
Western Digital Caviar SE WD3200AAJS 320GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Hard Drive $50

So that's our 4 grand, kids. We have the fastest of every frakkin' part newegg has. I can throw in OSX86, and have all the updates and everything for skittles, (nearly) legally. You can run OSX on PC hardware, genius. You just need to remove the restrictions in the executable and burn that .iso to a new disc.


So your comments are ridiculous, even for a 16 year old. You give us teenagers (I'm a measly 19) a bad name spouting bullocks such as these. Wait until you're half way into your Electrical Engineering degree before spouting such BS.

Another thing I'll point out about your ridiculous post: Several languages? Several meaning 2? Some doesn't mean you CAN. I know hola, por que, and several other Spanish words, so I guess I speak Spanish, eh, amigo?

More computers in your room than he has owned... herm...
Let's take a quick comparison, shall we? I'll go with my room since I don't know about the OP's. I'm sitting in my spare room with a 20.1" HP HDX attached to a 40" Samsung 120Hz DLP TV and a 22" Gateway monitor. Behind me is a $2500 desktop with dual 24" monitors. On my left is my 10 HDD server. To my right the oldest desktop I still own, a $900 Hp Pavillion that's got a Pentium 4 with HT. I gave my sister in the next room my Pentium 3. I have a Pentium II, and a Pentium (I got my first computer when I was three or four). All of those have monitors hooked to them. Beyond that, there's almost NOTHING in our lives that isn't computer driven excluding food at this point. The televisions, watches, alarm clocks, cars, phones, game systems, and even things like fans and lights have computer controls at this point. My PS3 runs Linux, my xbox runs Linux (actually, all three do), and my DreamCast runs Windows. No one CARES about how awesome you are in high school because we're past that. It's no longer the most awesome thing to have 3 computers and know HTML (If you consider interpreted languages like that trash programming anyway). Spend a few years learning some .NET languages, some Python based languages, Java, Pearl, Ruby, Ruby on Rails, or even things like MatLab, and then we'll talk. I'm guessing based on your 'extensive' computer hardware knowledge you aren't very good at those particular languages anyway, because you don't understand what gates are.

Before puffing out your chest like some technological giant, realize that there are people on here who ARE smarter than you are. No one's the smartest in the world by very definition of intelligence or mental ability. Now go home and play playstation, and leave grumpy kids like me be.

[TechieXP]

I don't why people think because something cost more it is better. That is only true in some cases...But there are ore cases where that is not true, Example...Carbon Fiber is a very expensive material. If you built a car from it, it would surely be lite. You see how much bikes cost that use that material? The fras alone can exceed $3000...yet they snap like a toothpick compared to lesser expesive Aluminum framed bikes.

Aluminum is cheap to produce compared to plastic. Don't think so? Compare teh cost of soda in a can vs soda in a plastic bottle. A 16oz can of soda rarely exceeds a dollar...yet a 20oz bottle of soda is 1.50...what do you think you're paying for? Plastic which can hold its forms for years and remaiin unchanged in landfills vs aluminum which will biodegrade over time.

So Macs being made out of Aluminum should certainly be cheaper in cost than a laptop that used plastic...yet is isn't. Am I the only one who sees that. Yet people say Dell and HP are cheap because they use plastic. I beg to different.

Imagine is a car was still as rigis as they use to be and you get into an acceident. Certainly steel is strong...yet you are more likely to die in one vs a car made out of sheet metel which is designed to collapse on impact and take teh force of the hit instead of you. And sheet metal is surely cheaper to produce. Remeber Matchbox car vs Hot Wheels? Why were Hot Wheels more popular. Because the cars were cheap bec they used die-casted metal and were lighter...which is how they were able to perform tricks and have a track system...Matchbox made there are out of plastic, but they had heavy metal bottom that prevented teh cars from being fast.

Expensive isn't better. It is simply expensive. An when it breaks it means you pay more to fix it.
Some people don't believe in over-kill. Performance doesn't have to cost a lot of money...PC's prove that. So do cars. It simply depends on what you're using them for. But if anyones says something is better just because they paid more it...that's just dumb. I realize Mac are a premium brand...but all OEM's for the most part sell at least 1 premium computer. An as many have said, they cost right around the cost of a Mac. Well fair enough. However for th cost a Windows PC can still do more...or at least has a better potential to do so.

I think if MSFT has many of the benefits Apple has like building there own pc, limiting the configurations, properly testing Windows on them...we would have a better quality machine. However, MSFT has proven that no matter what brand you buy...if you buy one that has hardware that MSFT has tested to properly work with Windows and you use MSFT drivers vs the horrible buggy retail ones...Windows will run solid on that machine. That is why when people build there own system and actually know what they are doing and not simply picking a mixture of bad parts, they have a perfect stable system that will twice as long as any brand PC...even from Apple.

The reason your next PC should be a Windows based one...is because less money gets you more options. You get to choose to have your PC reflect who YOU are. Not reflect on the person who designed it at a factory for you to buy. The Mac is based on Steve's personality which isn't good or bad. I think Steve has awesome taste and a wonderful eye for design and quality. But I don't make the kind of money Steve makes and even if I did...I don't have to buy more than I need just because I can. In the works of Nickolai Hilton..."I would never pay $500 for a pair of jeans...no matter how rich I am."

[sklranch]

How did this post turn into a car comparison?

All I see are ego's going back and forth.

[Foxylady48180]

Probably because they know more about cars that computers. You have to just let some of this STUFF go.

[dragon69]

sorry off topic again here


i have win7 rc 32 bit @88% and win7 rc 64 bit @21% and was wondering when these will last till? do they have a termination date?





thanks for any help



never mind i found it .... june 1st 2010



Message was edited by: dragon69

[TechieXP]

You don't have to spend $999 for an i7 CPU unless you're gettin the Extreme Edition The standard version with only 2 levels of cache will still perform faster then 2 Xeon running side by side. Test have proven so. So you can drop the price down to 544.99 - http://www.newegg.co...N82E16819115201

And just to keep it in the family...how about we go with a board that doesn't come with fancy features. How about we choose the best MB we can get made by Intel - http://www.newegg.co...N82E16813121361 $249.00


$ Ram slots...these had pretty good timings...to bad there aren't any 5-5-5-15 in the range - OCZ Reaper HPC 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ3RPR16004GK - Retail - 79.99 x 2 (i prefer OCZ or Kingston)
or
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820104016 84.99 x 2 (kingston)

I prefer ATI cards only vs Nvidia. CrossfireX has been proven to be much faster. Even if you increase anti-aliasing to the max. These cards have DDR5 ram - http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814102801 - 189.99 x 2

HDD - I like teh raptors at 10000RPM - http://www.newegg.co...N82E16822136322 on RAID 0 - how about 4 of them 229.99 x 4

And i'll stop and just thrown in $300 for a ThermalTake Case. $150 for a power supply....and $300 more to cover any extras like 2 dual layer burners (one with blue ray) mice keyboard and webcam...and for about $3000 I have a system that will burn any Mac.

Isn't building fun? All top quality components...all expensive...more power at the price of a comparable Mac Pro....yet my system will offer way more benefits. Including but not limited to...I can run XP, Vista, 7, and at least the next 2 versions of Windows after 7 on the same system without a major upgrade. Buy then much better an faster stuff will be out. By then USB will probably transfer gigs of data per sec...same for Firewire.

The best reason to choose a Windows PC? You can build a MONSTER that could tear up Tokyo...vs one that would only be an F2 tornado.

[waldojim]

hey umm, dude - i7 uses tripple channel ram, not dual channel

and for compatability - Nvidia cards, for Cuda applications - Nvidia cards and for the sake of apples to apples (no pun intended) comparison, Nvidia cards

For speed use either 15K SAS OR Sata SSD's then use a large (1.5TB) WD storage drive

and I would prefer the Asus baord with only PCI-Express slots, as that is where things are going... no need for legacy PCI these days...

Just my .02 on the idea...

[Kezopster]

While I respect the Apple method of a locked down system as a solid approach to maintaining product quality, my family has never been able to justify the premium expense. We've been PC users since the early ‘90s and Windows 3.1. The years since have been filled with a mix of store bought computers, computers built from scratch, and "Frankensteins" I created from left over parts. After 15 years of dealing with Windows operating systems, I'm happy to report, well, I'm happy. I've been able to accomplish all the work I want to do and kept my gamer son happy. From video production to publishing, it's all been down on Windows based machines with nary a problem.
Have I wrestled with buggy drivers from time to time? Most certainly. It's one of the reasons why I no longer buy HP printers; I've had nothing but bad luck with their drivers. Has there been a virus or two along the way? Yep, but nothing that couldn't be fixed (and even prevented in most cases). Of course, the Apple aficionado's are surely smugly smiling right now. Everything for a price, right?

I grow weary of those smug smiles, much the same as I cringe when I see someone driving a Cadillac Escalade or a Toyota Prius. The first is a car that probably cost as much as my home did. The latter is someone typically more interested in making a statement than being economical. I find most Apple users to be a mix of the above.

So excuse me while I enjoy the 30 mpg I get with Pontiac Vibe, which I purchased at two-thirds the cost of a Prius. Or while I enjoy my lack of a McMansion home that may have cost less than your Escalade. My Creative Zen MP3 player was half the cost of an iPod with more features and a lack of DRM. Much as my Windows Mobile based cell phone was less than the iPhone and still as feature rich. I don't wear Birkenstock shoes or sandals either. I don't ride the political correct mountain bike. I bought my reusable shopping bags from Wal-mart and I'll even use them at Target.

Apple users, it's NOT really a lifestyle choice that you've made, it's a financial one. If you see the benefit, that's fine. But please stop berating those of us who found a different path to computing nirvana or we'll insist that you go back to your RISC based processors.

[WinTard]

Nerds are nerds. Cars or computers. Hey we know and are passionate about our stuff!

Speaking of building a computer:


http://www.tigerdire...09&sku=B69-1054

That would be my starting point.

Add (2) BFG GeForce GTX280 1GB DDR3 $269 each

http://www.tigerdire...709&sku=B52-280

And we're rockin'

Of course Windows 7 Ultimate x64 for free till June 2010, approx $200 to purchase for real when available...

PS: Oh, lifetime warranty on the PSU and BFG video GPU cards... And the Asus mobo supports overclocking to 2000MHz. I suppose http://www.newegg.com/ has something similar?

~~~~~~~~~~
Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm.
~ Winston Churchill

[waldojim]

curious what marketing team decided to call that a barebons pc...

Seems to me a barebones box used to be Case, psu, mobo, and sometimes a processor... ah times have changed.

Still that would be one hell of a rig, only change - 2 of http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814130473

some nice new GTX 295's ]:)



Man that is sexy!

[Evildave]

Or just put Linux on it and the OS will be free FOREVER.

And you won't feel that disapointment you get when you see a new Micro$uck Windoze OS for real, versus the way the demos/betas run.

http://www.joke-arch...oft/heaven.html
bq. Heaven, Hell, and Bill Gates
bq. Bill Gates dies in a car accident. He finds himself in purgatory, being sized up by St. Peter. "Well, Bill, I'm really confused on this call; I'm not sure where to send you. After all, you helped society enormously by putting a computer in almost every home in America, yet you also created that ghastly Windows'95. I'm going to do something I've never done before. In your case; I'm going to let you decide whether you want to go to Heaven or Hell." Bill replied, "Well, what's the difference between the two?" St. Peter: "I'm willing to let you visit both places briefly, if it will help your decision." Bill: "Fine, but where should I go first?" St. Peter: "I'll leave that up to you." "Okay then," said Bill, "Let's try Hell first." So Bill went to Hell. It was a beautiful, clean, sandy beach with clear waters and lots of bikini-clad women running around, playing in the water, laughing, and frolicking about. The sun was shining; the temperature was perfect. Bill was very pleased. "This is great!" he told St. Peter. "If this is hell, I REALLY want to see heaven!" "Fine," said St. Peter, and off they went. Heaven was a place high in the clouds, with angels drifting about, playing harps and singing. It was nice, but not as enticing as Hell. Bill thought for a minute, and rendered his decision. "Hmmm. I think I'd prefer Hell," he told St. Peter. "Fine," retorted St. Peter, "as you desire." So Bill Gates went to Hell. Two weeks later, St. Peter decided to check on the late billionaire to see how he was doing in Hell. When he got there, he found Bill, shackled to a wall, screaming amongst hot flames in dark caves, being burned and tortured by demons. "How's everything going?" he asked Bill. Bill responded, with his voice filled with anguish and disappointment, "This is awful! This is nothing like the Hell I visited two weeks ago! I can't believe this is happening! What happened to that other place, with the beautiful beaches, the scantily-clad women playing in the water?" "That was a demo," replied St. Peter.

[Foxylady48180]

Don't forget the sound card.(Speakers)

[MarioJP]

man thats a long card.