[danield]

Setup? What setup? Us stupid Mac users wouldn't know a firewall from drywall, so, chances are it's never turned on. How many years has this been the case? Try since 2001 when OS X was first released. Ever hear of some kind of Malware disaster? Uh.... (crickets sounding in background). Yeah, I thought so. We'd still be OK without following their guidance. There's nothing that's gonna attack us just from plugging the damn thing in. Case closed, again!

[waldojim]

Hang on, so you are saying that Apple can send you new patches BEFORE you open the BOX? Holy crap! That is awesome!


Oh wait, no you are betting on there never being a threat...

I will tell you sir, that I have been using PC's for nearly 20 years. And in 20 years there is one thing I have learned.

Your machine is never secure. Because there is someone out there who wants what you have (identity, software, etc) or wants to destroy what you have.

You can pretend that it will never affect you, or you can do the smart thing and take precautions to protect yourself.
I opt for protection. To date, I have been able to avoid most viruses over the years. Though there were some good ones in the past (Stealth.b and stoned for those who remember)

[danield]

Hmmmm. FUD? It's you, waldo, and the rest of the PC fans here trying to tell us Mac users that our platform of choice suffers or will suffer from the ills you have to deal with on the Windows side of things. There is absolutely no concrete evidence of massive malware challenges that affect Mac OS X. Nope, you keep convincing yourselves with your own FUD that OS X is just as weak on security as Windows. Ignorance is indeed bliss!

[waldojim]

"Nope, you keep convincing yourselves with your own FUD that OS X is just as weak on security as Windows."

No, actually, mac is not more secure, and in fact has more crippling security problems than I would ever have to deal with. Let someone get into one of my Windows or Linux boxes and see how much harm they can do. With proper account security in place, a solid firewall, and an up to date os, I get nothing.

I am not spreading anything. I am trying to get you to realize you are full of crap. Just because no one has taken the time (yet) to break OS-X completely, and make a friggin mockery of it, does not mean that it won't happen. And by not using common sense and securing it, is stupid.

[BGG001]

You're getting rather defensive for being so sure of yourself. Security is a measure that should be taken on every computer, Windows, Linux, or Mac OS X, because nothing is invulnerable. Humans make mistakes, humans make OSes, therefore OSes contain human error; your failure to rationalize with this simple fact is spellbinding to me. All programming for all OSes can be contorted to exploit systems in anyway the writer sees fit. If a linux user made a driver that wasn't a driver, but rather spread itself on a computer, constantly opening, forcing the computer to essentially cripple due to lack of RAM, is that not malware? I consider it to be, similar programs can be built on both Windows and Apple as well, and the moment you open it, the deed is done. The fact that such an application can be made cross platform would mean that spyware could be made across all systems as well, and activated just as easily.

[artzy65]

waldojim wrote:
"Just because no one has taken the time (yet) to break OS-X completely, and make a friggin mockery of it, does not mean that it won't happen."

Just how, exactly, do you know that 'no one has taken the time to break OS X completely'? It seems to me that any given hacker would welcome becoming famous?or infamous? as the first to break OS X 'completely', rather than choosing to be just another windows hacker.

You'd think the challenge would be irresistible.

[waldojim]

www.techworld.com/security/news/index.cfm?newsid=1798
Eh, looks to me like it has been done. For that matter, it looks like there is no such thing as secure.... oh wait I said that already. But there is one line in that article which they labled windows users with, but applies to OS-X users as well...
"A third factor is that Linux / Unix people are very concerned about privilege escalation vulnerabilities, while Windows people in general are not"

--More holes--

http://news.cnet.com...-9881870-7.html

http://rixstep.com/1/20080625,00.shtml

http://voices.washin...2008/06/serioussecurityvulnerabilty_1.html

[artzy65]

"Eh, looks to me like it has been done."
If so, why did you say 'just because no one has taken the time to break OS X completely' in your previous post?

"...it looks like there is no such thing as secure.... oh wait I said that already."
Where, exactly, did I claim that macs are completely secure? If I thought that, why am I using firewalls and AV on all my macs?

"... A third factor is that Linux / Unix people are very concerned about privilege escalation vulnerabilities, while Windows people in general are not"
In my post I said nothing about wintel security issues. I'm not interested in wintel security issues.
Message was edited by: artzy65

[BGG001]

artzy65 said:

bgg wrote:
"MacWorld. Considering your biased source, the reliability of this information is about as firm as a marshmallow."



Hey... I like marshmallows... especially roasted... thanks for the flame!

Well, when I'm getting information to show that Microsoft Windows is better, I'm not going to get it from www.microsoft.com am I? You would immediately pick that to pieces, so unless you're denying that you wouldn't, I see no reason for you to complain to me about pointing that out.

[artzy65]

"Well, when I'm getting information to show that Microsoft Windows is better, I'm not going to get it from www.microsoft.com am I? You would immediately pick that to pieces, so unless you're denying that you wouldn't, I see no reason for you to complain to me about pointing that out."

Actually, I wouldn't pick that to pieces. If you notice any of my other posts here you'll see that I don't flame wintel at all. I choose mac simply because its 'look & feel' appeals to my sense of taste.

Re you 'pointing that out' for me... well, I'm a big boy and can more-or-less take mac reviews?even by mac sources?with a grain of salt (I always read the forum postings attached to each review). In this case, I pretty much grabbed the first review I could find quickly (by the way that review is from 2006). All I wanted to demonstrate was that a built-in OS X firewall does exist and is relatively easy to implement.

Believe it or not, mac users are not robotic zombies, mindlessly accepting whatever apple says and does.

[waldojim]

""... A third factor is that Linux / Unix people are very concerned about privilege escalation vulnerabilities, while Windows people in general are not"
In my post I said nothing about wintel security issues. I'm not interested in wintel security issues."

Now read it, that is not in reference to Windows security.

[danield]

You know, you can pull up all the scare articles you'd like because it doesn't change a thing. Windows security sucks and if you're OK with that, then good for you. All the Mac users I know ask for help on how to learn how to use the Mac or some application on it. Windows user always need help getting some malware removed from their system. I'm a system admin and just today had a Windows user ask for some help getting some malware removed from her home computer. I told her she should get a Mac. Her response was that she didn't know the Mac. I told her she could get training right at the Apple store. Did I offer my services to help her Windows malware problem. Hell no. She can go to Geek squad and fork over $200 or so to get it cleaned. And then do it again the next time she's hit. Three weeks ago it was another Windows schlub asking for help. Next time you run into a Mac user, ask them if they've had any problems with malware? Keep going until you find one and then let us know. OK. Good luck.

Even with the one or two holes, Macs are still much safer to use. It's a fact, and no amount of wishful thinking or articles will change it. Case closed. The Apple ads are 100% true and you know it. Here are their points again.

1. Malware is a problem on Windows.
2. Customer care is less than stellar.
3. "Denial" is not only a river in Egypt, it's a state of mind for a windows user.

I'm out.

[BGG001]

Yeah, way to prove you're point, your hypocritical statement proves nothing. Scare article? Isn't that what you just pulled out of your ass there? FUD much? Those people probably got that stuff by being completely irresponsible, running without a firewall and AV program WHICH EVERY COMPUTER USER SHOULD USE REGARDLESS OF OPERATING SYSTEM. PERIOD. Perhaps Mac is better for her, who am I to say? Who are YOU to say? Perhaps the tons of money she has to spend on the damn thing is too much, or perhaps she never thought of it, reasons are beyond you and me both. oh, oh, oh, I found a Windows user who hasn't had a problem with it, Me, and all of my friends, even the non-tech-savvy ones, which goes to prove my point above.

There, that's called actually replying to what has been stated, you seem to be very good at contorting conversations to your liking, Senator McCarthy.

1. Malware is currently only a problem on Windows but is capable of changing.
2. Customer care with Windows depends on the company, generally it's acceptable.
---I've heard stories with apple, $700+ repairs for certain types of damage UNDER WARRANTY. Outright BS.
3. Apple users tend to be in a hypnosis state following a logo.
Message was edited by: smax013

[jregooden]

Oww! A bit sniding. I thought you were beyond that? Continue on!

[WinTard]

So you say. What about some solid independently verifiable facts? For a change? Not some feelings? Come on, there must be tons of evidence out there? Supporting your assertions?

I'm being considerate and polite here... :)

[BGG001]

I never really stated that a Mac firewall doesn't exist, I've states that users of Macs (and PC users even) refuse to use one despite it being readily accessible.

Unfortunately, alot of mac users are...

Quite frankly, I'm getting irritable because I'm fighting the same bloody battle again and again because some people (not you) choose to ignore points and continue on to something else with absolutely no backing of any sort, and continue this pattern infinitely. So I appologize if I come off harsh at times, blame it on those who make it impossible for me to remember who actually is being civil and isn't.

[waldojim]

" I'm a system admin and just today had a Windows user ask for some help getting some malware removed from her home computer. I told her she should get a Mac."
That response tells me that either: A. you are a pathetic Sys Admin, and need to find a new career, or B. (more likely) that you are too lazy to give a crap.
If some sys admins answer to a question of mine, was get a mac, I would tell him to grow up.

"
1. Malware is a problem on Windows.
2. Customer care is less than stellar.
3. "Denial" is not only a river in Egypt, it's a state of mind for a windows user.
"
If any of that was supposed to mean something, let me know... because that looks like a load of crap as well. Malware is a problem for any OS
"Malware is a general term for software programs that have been designed with or can be used for malicious intent. These include viruses, worms and Trojans." So by that definition Mac, Linux, Windows, AIX, and everything else out there is bound to have some sort of malware.
Customer support..... you know, I just wont touch that... go look into what apple does to people who have problems, and post on their forums... oh wait, you can't they have been deleted. Wonderful customer support, pretend there is no problem... ever. Denial works both ways


@BGG001
"I never really stated that a Mac firewall doesn't exist, I've states that users of Macs (and PC users even) refuse to use one despite it being readily accessible."
All too true. This was something I was trying to get across in a different post. For the most part Windows users have to be a little more vigilant about security, and thus have a lot of these things in place. Linux/Mac users tend to think they can never be attacked, and thus ignore simple precautions.

[jregooden]

It's quite simple really. MS just can't get it right. That's right! They'll never get it right. Even with the right tools hand delivered to them they'll still bungle it. They WILL absolutely, positively screw this up. GUARANTEED! Can I get a witness up in here? Their track record is proof enough. XP was to be the most secure...Whutever! See how well that went. The future doesn't look too rosy either with the IE8 pre release hacked. It was patched for the final release and the threat is still present to Vista SP2 and Window 7. This is your future OS. Hey the topping on the cake is the new proof-of-concept exploit that renders all the security measure useless, and it can't be fixed. That's right IT CAN'T EVER BE FIXED. Suddenly, it don't look so good for Windows7. Dude, please stay with your PC. I want you to enjoy every bit of what's coming your way soon, and I guarantee you will get way more exploits on your PC than I ever will on my Mac.

I'll stick with my Mac and it's REAL security, and REAL safety that's available today. Right Now.
Message was edited by: smax013

[Evildave]

Actually, it's not a company system administrator's job to fix people's home PCs (those not issued to them by the company).

At least not without some sort of reciprocation. Cash, good food/beer, etc. are all perfectly acceptable fees, and "Bugger Off!" is also a perfectly legitimate response to someone wanting to consume endless hours of your personal time for free technical support.

Once you fix one coworker's machine for free, you set a bad precedent, and EVERYONE expects you to be their own personal PC-helping slave 24/7 until you move far away and don't give out your number.

And it never ends with the one issue. Once you fix one thing, they think you're going to fix everything. They even think you'll pull free replacement parts out of thin air to go with all the infinite free labor they get.

[jregooden]

To PC users, patching their system puts them on par with the Mac users. Like the former president, they are out of touch.