[rgreen4]

When I went to Virginia in 1980 they had commented that they had shifted from Socium Chloride to Calcium Cloride (I think) and it was less corrosive to the vehicles. Of course, North Carolina was even easier on cars, they didn't clear the roads, Mother Nature put it down, let her clean it up.

[coastie65]

I used to just run my car through the car wash after that stuff had been put down. never really had any rusting problems. Anyway, Chloride is Chloride and highly corrosive. As far as North Carolina goes, in NE NC, in Gates County where my Grandmother's farm was, they would use graders to move the snow, when they got any, although in most cases, mother nature took care of it pretty fast.

[WinTard]

Overall, I prefer RWD. Mechanically, it makes more sense to me I suppose? The front is for steering (with no torque steer) and the rear for pushing. I find it hard or virtually impossible to 'power-slide' a FWD with precision, whereas in a RWD, that is fairly easy. Thus IMHO, a RWD is more balanced and neutral than a FWD.

See: http://en.wikipedia....Torque_steering
http://en.wikipedia..../Coriolis_Force
http://en.wikipedia....al_acceleration


Also, a longitudinally mounted engine is better than a transverse mount engine for the very same reasons.

Oh an interesting anecdote: In a huge snowstorm, I couldn't make it up the 10 degrees slope from my house to the main intersection. Even with winter-only tires. So I simply went uphill, in reverse, effectively turning my FWD into a RWD. That worked like a charm, to the amazement of my onlooking neighbors, everybody being stuck and digging themselves out... Hey I saw it on MythBusters, tried it and it worked!

[TechieXP]

The concept of 4/AWD is similar to FWD. in the 4/AWD vehicles..all wheels spin and the computer can control each wheel undepandantly...so if one is spinning to fast...it will slow the wheel down..to try to help get traction...thus pulling and pushing at teh same time. In snow RWD sucks...because if you slip...you matter which way you turn the front wheels they car will push straight forward. In a FWD car, with anti-lock...the wheels are always free to turn...so that you can control over the steering. If you into a skid, teh idea is to control which way the car is going to go. RWD can control the direction the car is going...theu are uni-directional by design. The Dodge Steath RT w/Twin Turbos was really cool because not only was it AWD...it also had 4 wheel steer. So that way if you turn left in a skid...the rear wheels would turn inward to the right...effectively swinging the rear of the car to teh left as well...adding to the control of teh vehicle.

I am sure if you get use to RWD you can probably do as good as any FWD car. But when ppl skid they tend to panic. The idea is to give them as much control as possible. When a car is stuck in snow...pulling at heavey weight is better then pulling...unless you driving up a hill. If the object is long like a semi...front wheels trying to pull dead weight is not good...but in a small car if different...

In deep snow weight can be bad as it can bury you deeper...so thus a RWD could be better. But here in Chicago we rare;y have deep snow in the city..and most cars I see that wipe out are RWD where people gun the pedal and lose control. When it comes to racing...then RWD is probably better...but I a sure there are some FWD race cars that could give those a run for their money :-)

[mjd420nova]

A real four wheel drive is only true if you have posi-traction differentials in both front and rear differential units. I do have such a beast, and it will out pull any other unit out there. My oldest son does auto gear work for a living and had this set up for me. It is in a classic '70 K5 Blazer. I really enjoy this beast, a lift off hard top for summer use and a hot 350 four bolt main engine. Here in California you don't need smog equipment in anything older than '74 so it has headers, a performance intake with a regular carburator and huge 39 inch tires. I use it to pull my boat around and for camping in the mountains. It will handle up to two feet of snow and eighteen inches of mud. It will run with two wheels on the same side on ice without any slippage, which I have had to do when treking through the hills for skiing. Not your ordinary setup and quite a bit of hardware and a skilled mechanic to setup but is unsurpassed in performance under adverse conditions. The FWD units out there today are seriously lacking in traction and really takes a skilled driver to handle wet, snowy or icy conditions. For general all around performance with anyone behind the wheel, RWD is the best and easiest for the average driver to handle. Most wrecks aound here in the rain are from the clowns who have to be retrained every time it rains. In the bay area it seldom snows, and only once in the last thirty five years. We do get black ice once in a great while and it only happens on freeway overpasses and bridges. That condition can catch anyone unaware and even the most experienced drivers will find the ditch or guardrail regardless of what they are driving.

[smax013]

mjd420nova said:

The FWD units out there today are seriously lacking in traction and really takes a skilled driver to handle wet, snowy or icy conditions. For general all around performance with anyone behind the wheel, RWD is the best and easiest for the average driver to handle.

I am going to disagree. Most people (i.e. average driver) deal with FWD drive better as the natural instincts that one has when dealing with slipping is more "in tune" with a FWD (i.e. wanting to turn the wheel in the direction you want to go rather than the direction you are slipping)...unless one is "trained" and experienced in the use a RWD so that you override natural instricts with trained instincts...which is NOT the case for your "average driver" these days as most vehicles are FWD.

Quote

Most wrecks aound here in the rain are from the clowns who have to be retrained every time it rains. In the bay area it seldom snows, and only once in the last thirty five years. We do get black ice once in a great while and it only happens on freeway overpasses and bridges. That condition can catch anyone unaware and even the most experienced drivers will find the ditch or guardrail regardless of what they are driving.

That is because most people don't understand or care about physics. It is the same reason a LOT of people tailgate (although I will offer that I have known some engineers, who generally understand physics rather well, who tailgate as well). I am constantly thinking about how slamming on my brakes would teach some people a nice lessen about momentum/interia as well as response time.

[smax013]

Generally speaking, torque steer is a non-issue for most people. It only really becomes an issue with FWD cars that have a LOT of power. I had a Eagle Talon with turbo. It was a fun car to drive with GREAT acceleration. But, you had to be careful while accelerating fast as you did have to deal with significant torque steer. Most "normal" FWD cars, however, generally do not have enough power to make torque steer an issue...and a lot of "power" cars tend to have RWD for this reason.

[mjd420nova]

SMAX: I certainly hope that you'd refrain from pulling such a stupid stunt in front of me, tailgating or not, you'd most likely find yourself behind bars for intentionally causing an accident. My prefered vehicle is a full size chevy van and you'd most definately wind up on the rotten end of that stick. I do see some people who like to wash their windshield when they think others get too close, but that's not really advisable either. A gentle tap on the brakes is simpler and a reminder to those who insist on reading my bumper stickers. I do not have a rear window or rear view mirror but do have some very large mirrors on both sides. You could get close enough that I wouldn't know you were there unless I saw your shadow. Slowing down or changing lanes is the most advisable method of getting a tailgater off your rear, let them go, they obviously think you're going too slow and a road hog, so best to let them go before they do something stupid and cause an accident. Best that you not be involved.

[smax013]

mjd420nova said:

SMAX: I certainly hope that you'd refrain from pulling such a stupid stunt in front of me, tailgating or not, you'd most likely find yourself behind bars for intentionally causing an accident. My prefered vehicle is a full size chevy van and you'd most definately wind up on the rotten end of that stick. I do see some people who like to wash their windshield when they think others get too close, but that's not really advisable either. A gentle tap on the brakes is simpler and a reminder to those who insist on reading my bumper stickers. I do not have a rear window or rear view mirror but do have some very large mirrors on both sides. You could get close enough that I wouldn't know you were there unless I saw your shadow. Slowing down or changing lanes is the most advisable method of getting a tailgater off your rear, let them go, they obviously think you're going too slow and a road hog, so best to let them go before they do something stupid and cause an accident. Best that you not be involved.

Oh, I would never do it...I only said I thought about it...one of those "idle fancies". Of course, some people will face that situation in real life due to someone ahead of them needing to stop for an emergency and then the tailgater will get the ticket.

If someone tailgates me, I usually slow down so that either 1) they pass or 2) we are both going slower so that if I did have to make an emergency stop their close distance would be less of a factor. But, I will note that there are a LOT of people who will just tailgate rather than pass even if you are on a 4 lane divided highway and there is not another car in site. For such people, I suspect that either their depth perception is screwy or they just do no understand the implications of tailgating.

[rgreen4]

When I was working on a temp assignment for my employer back in my old hometown of Houston in '95, I was on the way downtown from the airport. I was in a strange vehicles (rental) and a car suddenly changed into my lane and slammed on the brakes. There was a semi behind me and fortunately the left lane was empty and I jerked to the left and missed the guy. Had I been in my truck and with a witness, I probably would have slammed him. I know there are stunts like this on the city streets, but at 60 mph someone could get hurt.

[bbvammy]

Dry pavement -

Toyota Prius with front wheel drive

Wet / Snow

Toytoa Prius front wheel drive with studded snow tires ]:)

Seattle, Washington with 3, 4 months of snow.

[coastie65]

Hey now, You guys got dumped on last winter, but as far as I know there isn't that much snow in Seattle on average. Now where my cousin is in Moses Lake, Wa. It is a whole nother thing. :D coastie

[bbvammy]

@Coastie

you know cities very well. ]:)

[rgreen4]

Don't forget to put studded tires on the rear if you mount them on the front.

[bbvammy]

@Rgreen

I forgot to mention it.

4 studded snow tires. ]:)

[coastie65]

:D I have Cousins in both Oregon and Washington. :D

[rgreen4]

When I moved to Lynchburg, Va from S. Georgia in Dec., 1980, I had a '80 Honda. We got a good snow fall about a month later, and felt I needed some assistance. So one evening after work, I went to the tire store and bought two snow tires and was having the studs mounted. The guy doing the mounting came in with this little piece of red paper with black printing, stating that if mounting on front wheel drive and installing studs, the tires should be mounted in sets of four. I asked him what that meant, and why. He said he did not know, so I only put on two.

Going home that night, I was alone on a nice wide four lane road with no traffic. So, at about 35 MPH, I slammed on the brakes. The car stopped nicely and in a straight line, only it was BACKWARDS!. I then knew the answer of why you mount them in sets of four. I gingerly drove to work the next day and then after work went back to the tire store and got the other two.

In the spring, I mounted the original tires on a new set of wheels so I could then change the tires back in the winter by my self. I used those tires on 3 different Hondas, all with the same wheel size. Never put it in a ditch, even one morning when I got up and set forth without listening to the radio, and only down the road noticed the glistening on the road was not water, but ice. Glare Ice. I managed to get back home without event. In that climate, studded snow tires are the only way to go.

[smax013]

coastie65 said:

Hey now, You guys got dumped on last winter, but as far as I know there isn't that much snow in Seattle on average. Now where my cousin is in Moses Lake, Wa. It is a whole nother thing. :D coastie

Kind of depends on where in "Seattle" one is and how one defines "Seattle".

If you are talking the City of Seattle proper, then you are correct. Typically, Seattle (and Tacoma...within the city limits) do not get a whole lot of snow, although they seems to have gotten hit more heavily in recent years.

But, if you are talking the "Seattle" area, then it does not take you to much heading East to get high enough into the mountains to have snow be a real issue. In particular, the pass that I-90 goes through (Snoqualmie Pass if I recall correctly) can be a mess.