[tazfreeatlast]

[quote name='davidbunnell']I guess the machine that started it all doesn't count--the Altair 8800 from Mits was the first personal computer. The whole industry and many of its facits sprung from this development from Mits, a tiny company in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Introduced in January, 1975, this machine was based on the Intel 8080 chip and had an open architecture. The IBM Personal Computer, which didn't arrive until 1981, was just a souped up Altair with a 16-bit microprocessor. They even look alike. Both inspired the development of 100's of add-on products and 100's of clones. Both ran Microsoft software. Microsoft BASIC was originally called Altair BASIC. Bill Gates and Paul Allen worked for Mits and Microsoft started in Albuquerque. The first retail computer stores were Altair stores. The first personcal computer convention was the World Altair Computer Conference held in 1976. The first personal ocmputer magazines, BYTE, CREATIVE Computing & Personal Computer were largely about the Altair and then the TRS-80 and Apple II. Mits' founder, Ed Roberts, not Steve Jobs or Don Estridge, is the father of the Personal Computing Industry. He had the original vision and he created the first personal computer. I know because I worked for him....> > > > Most of you all probably weren't born in 1975--or you were still in diapers. Oh well....> > > > --David BunnellNumber 12. MITS Altair 8800 (1975) Computer historians are still squabbling over whether MITS's Altair was the first true personal computer. (Earlier candidates include the Kenbak-1 and Micral-N.) What's undeniable is that it was "the first machine to really capture the imagination of the geek sector in a big way," says Erik Klein of Vintage-Computer.com. "The fact that other companies quickly jumped onto the bandwagon was proof of its power and allure."The Altair started life as a $397 build-it-yourself kit--little more than a box, a board, an Intel 8080 CPU (which MITS bought at a discount because of cosmetic blemishes), and 256 bytes of RAM. At first you needed to program it by flipping switches, until Bill Gates and Paul Allen started a tiny company called Micro-soft (yes, with a hyphen) and came up with a version of the BASIC programming language that would work on the system.Software from Bill Gates wasn't the only thing the Altair had in common with today's systems. Much of the infrastructure that would support later PCs--from disk-drive manufacturers to software developers to computer stores--sprung up to support it. There were even clones, such as the popular IMSAI 8080.The Altair's time as the dominant computing platform was brief, and in 1978 it was discontinued altogether. But what a legacy it left.Need a referral to a good optometrist? :wink:

[Golden]

Why C64 could not be considered in the list:- C64 is a computer that has been designed initially as a game console. Due to the 81 crisis game consoles, was changed as a home computer. However, after many years of success finally C64 converted in machine for porting arcades. His great fame basically came from this.- C64 has the same architecture as Atari computers, even like some enginners said, there is reverse engineering in some aspects. The list includes the first computer in the serie of innovation.- Nothing new you can say about C64 computers. His fame come because is a machine with good capatibilities and cost cheaper than others. There is 3'000,000 commies in the world (i have a C128), that explain why people are angry with this list.

[genedefcon]

[quote name='kjpweb']With all due respect - your list is incomplete and maybe somewhat biased.> > Not that the Apple II didn't have a significant impact - but the> > IBM PC - who actually started the whole industry deserves> > the throne hands down.> > Missing are two icons - that initiated making Computers> > interesting for kids - the C 64 and the Atari (800?).> > Without these two the gaming industry wouldn't be> > what it is today.> > I also would place the Thinkpads way higher - they> > really made laptops desirable.> > Of course it is at the end of the day always a matter of> > taste what you rank high and what not.> > But I really think ranking Apple II or even the original Mac> > higher than the box who started it all - is a Faux Pax. They listed the Commodore 64.

[peased]

If the IBM AT makes the list then the Apple McIntosh SE30 should make it. Basically the change from the Mac to Mac plus is like the PC to XT.

[DurocShark]

How did a C=64 NOT end up as #1??? The only reason anybody used Apple II's was because that's the crap the schools had.

[jonarbeiten]

Hey, what about MSX? Maybe not very know in the USA but great success around the world and still has an active community that started the emulation movement

[spooky]

[quote name='kjpweb']With all due respect - your list is incomplete and maybe somewhat biased.> > Not that the Apple II didn't have a significant impact - but the> > IBM PC - who actually started the whole industry deserves> > the throne hands down.> > Missing are two icons - that initiated making Computers> > interesting for kids - the C 64 and the Atari (800?).> > Without these two the gaming industry wouldn't be> > what it is today.> > I also would place the Thinkpads way higher - they> > really made laptops desirable.> > Of course it is at the end of the day always a matter of> > taste what you rank high and what not.> > But I really think ranking Apple II or even the original Mac> > higher than the box who started it all - is a Faux Pax.The IBM PC didn't start it all; the AppleII did. Thanks, Woz!

[PDogg]

I don't understand how you could put the TRaSh computers ahead/instead of the Commodores - the VIC 20, 64 and 128. I ran my law office for four years on a C=128. Not one of those TRaSh 80s was as good as a C=64 so they shouldn't be listed as one of the best 25 when the C=64 wasn't mentioned at all (except as a footnote to the Amiga - which, aside from its gargantuan cost, was a great computer).P.S. "definitely" has no A in it.

[lewisjk]

Gosh, where's the Kaypro II-X in all of this bruhaha? As I remember it, it had TWO 360KB disk drives (5 1/4 inch disks) AND a 10MB hard drive. There was nothing like it -- for a while. And personal computing has gone downhill ever since. It also was "portable."

[tsprague1]

I remember very well four of us at a time playing M.U.L.E. on the Atari 800. We had tournaments playing it. :-) Or playing Beta Lyra. Or Miner2049'er.

[metalhead]

I was a member of an Amiga user group back in high school and college. I owned an Amiga 500 with a staggering 50 Megabyte hard drive. I would have put the Amiga nearer the top of the list.. the Amiga geeks had Flame wars on the BBS systems for years (remember dialup bbs's).. If the amiga was rechistened today I would still buy it. way ahead of its time. The Amiga community was always trying to convert users to the amiga. Amiga users were almost fanatical about how good a system it was (myself included)., .... I still remember staying up all night playing a bootleg copy of NUKE WARS (Ronnie raygun bombing Iran and etc)... ah the memories of my AMIGA.. I think I am starting to cry........

[metalhead]

we had APPLe IIe 's in our computer lab in high school. But almost all of the kids taking computer courses had C=64's at home or that they could use. The only reason the apple was so dominant was that they sold the computers to schools at a deep discount or gave them away. they were not in as many homes. my 2 cents at least

[Rimmer]

I think this article was created to intice a big debate over Apple being the No1 greatest PC of all time....or is 25 the top slot......nice work editor.I'm surprised the Sinclair ZX spectrum isn't listed.....the 'speccy' kick started the gaming scene and created a few millionare bedroom programmers 8)

[Rowgue1]

This thing is just plain dumb. Did you guys use disgruntled interns that decided to make you look stupid to put this thing together for you or what?Here are the problems you've got off the top of my head.1) I can buy the apple II but apple certainly hasn't made 20% of the greatest computers ever as your list indicates.2) The original IBM is good too but again dispraportionatly represented throughout the list.3) The first laptop and that's it, no more.4) The first IBM clone (Columbia's) and no more. Compaq please.5) There's too much on the list that were complete financial flops. If nobody wanted them they can't be honestly considered great.6) You have an Amiga on the list but no C64? The C64 dominated computing for a decade. The Amiga line alienated most of commodores formerly loyal customer base, didn't do a good job of bringing new people to the party, and sent the company into financial ruin. But it was pretty, I guess that's all you goofs really scored on, LOL

[Oswald]

[quote name='Golden']Why C64 could not be considered in the list:> > > > - C64 is a computer that has been designed initially as a game console. Due to the 81 crisis game consoles, was changed as a home computer. However, after many years of success finally C64 converted in machine for porting arcades. His great fame basically came from this.> > - C64 has the same architecture as Atari computers, even like some enginners said, there is reverse engineering in some aspects. The list includes the first computer in the serie of innovation.> > - Nothing new you can say about C64 computers. His fame come because is a machine with good capatibilities and cost cheaper than others. There is 3'000,000 commies in the world (i have a C128), that explain why people are angry with this list.- its a common misbelief that c64 was designed to be a game console. this is not true. amiga was designed to be a game console its still on the list so whats the big idea ?- c64 is totally different from the atari except from the 6510. c64 has its own custom chips, with its own mainboard. - Nothing new you can say about C64 computers. His fame come because is a machine with good capatibilities and cost cheaper than others. are you nuts ? this are good enough reasons to be on the list. It had unseen before capabilities sold for half of the price of the rest of the crap of the day.

[Oswald]

[quote name='"makeshift"My guess is that the Commodore computers just had the unfortunate distinction of being the ones a lot of people used and then dumped' date=' and in hindsight would rather forget. Don't know why.[/quote']you are blind. you dont even see the number of reactions why is the c64 left from the list. probably everyone here demands the c64 into the top 25 because they have dumped and forgot about it.

[Rimmer]

The C64 was a "Home Computer" and not a "Personal Computer" (PC) which was the Amiga :PI think the "Home Computers" had a TV modulator built into them.

[Rowgue1]

RimmerThat's just retarted. The number one greatest computer of all time according to the people that put the list together is not even a PC. Clearly they really meant "Best computers of all time" instead of "Greatest PC's of all time".And the whole Home/Personal argument is just semantics anyway. They both mean the same thing: a machine that's made for you to use personally at home, not a room sized box full of mechanical equipment.

[Hypressure]

I think your choice for #1 is totally legitimate. I have never found another computer I liked as much as my IIc, IIgs, and IIe.By the way, PC means personal computer in this text, not an IBM product!!!

[Rimmer]

[quote name='Rowgue1']Rimmer> > > > That's just retarted. The number one greatest computer of all time according to the people that put the list together is not even a PC. Clearly they really meant "Best computers of all time" instead of "Greatest PC's of all time".> > > > And the whole Home/Personal argument is just semantics anyway. They both mean the same thing: a machine that's made for you to use personally at home, not a room sized box full of mechanical equipment.Well here is some more more retarted info for you....'Home Computers' or 'second generation' computers were the C64's, ZX80's, Spectrums, Amigas etc....you know, the computers all-in-one or 'door-stop' computers as I call them.'Personal Computers' were introduced after the success of IBM's first PC which came with professional keyboards and required high resolution monitors (not televisions).go read for yourself the correct terms and meanings.....[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBMPC