[quackadilly]

"Don't worry - by Windows 10 or 11, you'll catch up to Mac OS 7."



This isn't anti-Windows? Sounds like it to me.

[quackadilly]

"So you've proven that you never read the article."



Nah....I never proved that. I'm just saying that 2200 people is a VERYsmall sample to judge the world on.


-----
I never said Vista was superior to OSX. I never tried to prove it either. I think the opposite. I do think Windows 7 will be though.


-----
"not mindless Windows troll raving, real factual information"



What exactly am I raving about? I never said that the studies were wrong.... Just stating that it is a small sample.....relatively speaking.


-----
From your last post, it looks like you are a Mac fan posing as a "performance" seeker....



Just admit it....you hate Microsoft.

-----
Oh, and that other survey you posted......same surveying group just 3 months earlier....



Like anything's gonna change in 3 months.... why don't you do some research next time.

[mistoffolees]

quackadilly said:

"Don't worry - by Windows 10 or 11, you'll catch up to Mac OS 7."

This isn't anti-Windows? Sounds like it to me.

No. Just the voice of experience.

I've been hearing since Windows 3.0 days about how the next version of Windows would be just as good as a Mac. Excuse me if 20 years of waiting has made me skeptical.

[quackadilly]

"I've been hearing since Windows 3.0 days about how the next version of Windows would be just as good as a Mac."





I've never heard that.









Yes, you know all.... I'm sorry. :^0

[rgreen4]

Well, you are going backwards. That article was from January, 2008 and your previous one was from February, 2008. Very current. Can't you find one from at least 2009 or better, one that is less than 3 months old?

[mistoffolees]

rgreen4 said:

Well, you are going backwards. That article was from January, 2008 and your previous one was from February, 2008. Very current. Can't you find one from at least 2009 or better, one that is less than 3 months old?

I guess Google doesn't work on Vista.

Try here:
http://vista.blorge....r-satisfaction/

or
http://money.cnn.com...nings/index.htm
"Microsoft's Vista operating system, which was released in early 2007, never took off like the company had hoped. Sales in the division that produces Vista fell 16% in the previous quarter. User satisfaction has been underwhelming, and IT departments have largely opted to stick with Vista's predecessor, Windows XP."

or
http://news.cnet.com...0019711-37.html
"dissatisfaction with Windows Vista might have hurt the scores for the other companies"

or
http://www.blogoflux...s-7-than-vista/
(53% of IT execs surveyed will skip Vista entirely)

or
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2286065,00.asp
(OK, 2nd quarter 2008, but that was more than 6 months after the Vista release and none of those issues have been addressed)

Bottom line, there are countless stories and surveys about dissatisfaction with VIsta - and no surveys showing it to be even acceptable, much less approaching Mac OS X satisfaction levels.

Plus, your argument (it's not that bad when you get used to it) is addressed:
http://www.webpronew...isfaction-trend
""you get used to it" isn't the sort of slogan that any marketer would suggest"

Go ahead and bury your head in the sand. Or Bill Gates' rear. Or wherever. The real world doesn't agree with you.

[rgreen4]

I've never heard it either. But then I've never circulated in the Mac users forum either.

One hard cold fact Mac fans can't get around - businesses don't care about versions or software manufacturers, they only care about what is effective in their offices from a cost standpoint and an efficiency standpoint. Now in some departments in corporate entities there are Mac's, but for most the vast preponderance of machines are Windows based. Before that they were DOS based. Our Mac friends don't want to seem to accept that the Windows based machines are the most effective solutions company wide, therefore, they fall into the mantra that we just don't under stand. They fail to understand that companies abhor single source supplies, and when you go Mac, you are single sourcing. While corporations may have a contract this year with one brand, they can always shift next year if they want. With a Mac, that's impossible, you have to pay what Apple wants if you want the product.

As for the stats, I have a Professor in Statistics who alway quoted " Figures don't lie, but liars figure". You can skew any survey any which way you want, by the phrasing of the question and the structure of the sample. You are correct in that the sample is small, and given it's small size possible given to a high error. I know from working in the business community for over 35 years, that we get a plethora of surveys, most of which we place in the circular file. My friends on the IT side always complained about them as well, they took similar action.

When I retired the corporation was just starting to roll out Vista and Office 2007, replacing Windows 2000 and Office 2000. Of course their version was the Enterprise without the games, without the Media Center and without the sidebar. In that venue, except for the shape of the icons, there won't be that much difference. (Control Panel is also pretty much disabled for most users).

[mistoffolees]

What an incredible mess of crazy logic:

"when you go Mac, you are single sourcing"
- Just like Windows is single sourcing - unless you can buy Windows from someone other than Microsoft. If you're really opposed to single sourcing, you should be using a mixture of OSs - not 100% Windows.

" You can skew any survey any which way you want, by the phrasing of the question and the structure of the sample."
- That's true - which is why a wise person looks at multiple surveys. Interestingly, ALL of the available surveys show massive dissatisfaction with Windows.

"Our Mac friends don't want to seem to accept that the Windows based machines are the most effective solutions company wide, "
- Actually, if you were ever able to support that, it might be more believable. As it is, Mac fans have provided endless surveys, studies, and so on for decades showing Macs to be easier to use, more productive, more reliable, and higher customer satisfaction. I haven't seen a single piece of factual evidence to support your contention. So maybe it's simply that Mac users prefer facts and Windows fans prefer living in their own fantasy world. That's not to say that Windows isn't widely used, of course. But that's not the issue.

"One hard cold fact Mac fans can't get around - businesses don't care about versions or software manufacturers"
- Then why is it that 53% of IT execs said that they're skipping WIndows Vista?

"I've never heard it either"
- Pretty good evidence that you're deluding yourself. Think back to the Windows 95 days. There were months (if not years) of articles in virtually every computer magazine about how Windows 95 was going to be just as good as a Mac. Your denial is 100% proof that you're not interested in an honest discussion.

[rgreen4]

Gee, I guess CNN never figured out that OS sales are tied to machine sales. As machine sales go down so do the OS sales. Or maybe they missed the whole recession news as well. As for skipping Vista, sure, many will as they did most of the due diligence in getting their customized applications modified for the Vista kernel and the announcement was made for Windows 7. With Windows 7 using the same kernel as Vista (like XP used the same kernel as Win2000), what runs in Vista will run without modification in Windows7. Actually many applications that run in XP will also run in Vista, especially those written to the Microsoft programming standards issues over 10 years ago. (You know the ones that warn not to write directly to video, but go through the kernel) Since it will be released later this year, they will simply jump to Windows 7. Many corporations leapfrog systems.

The company I retired from went from Windows 2000 to Vista. Did that mean that there was something wrong with XP? According to your logic, yes. I have also never understood the love affair some have with an operating system. After all, it provides a platform for an applications so you can do work. Now, the better the platform is, the better the application is. Do you use OS/X do do your spreadsheet, write your memos and send your e-mail?

By the way, what is wrong with OS/X? Only 53% were satisfied? That must be distressing to any Mac fan who thinks everyone must be 100% satisfied with the "world's greatest OS". Almost as distressing as the 9% market share (over 15 points behind Vista).

[mistoffolees]

rgreen4 said:

By the way, what is wrong with OS/X? Only 53% were satisfied? That must be distressing to any Mac fan who thinks everyone must be 100% satisfied with the "world's greatest OS". Almost as distressing as the 9% market share (over 15 points behind Vista).

That's what happens when you don't read the article. 53% were VERY satisfied.

IIRC, the total satisfaction rate was over 80% for OS X. No one expects perfection or 100% satisfied users. But Mac OS X is consistently far higher than any version of Windows. You keep forgetting to mention that fact.

[quackadilly]

vista.blorge.com/2009/04/17/apple-beats-windows-pc-manufacturers-for-customer-satisfaction/
The data is from 2008..... and it's not a study of OS really...but PC manufacturer....
"The companies which were the subject of the PC makers category included Apple, Gateway, Hewlett-Packard, and Dell."





Also:


"Firstly I think this survey is rather poor. The questions asked don’t seem to get to the root of how good a company’s service pedigree is. Rather it concentrates on how much the consumers like a certain product. So no wonder Apple came top. Show me an Apple fanboy that would say anything negative about the company and I’ll show you a liar."

"Quite apart from the fact these results will be skewed in favor of Apple, there is the issue of price. Customers should be guaranteed a better experience from buying Apple because they pay through the nose for the privilege."

"Do I believe Apple is a better company than every Windows-based PC manufacturer? No way. It just uses what it has well to ensure its customers with deep pockets stay loyal. That’s not customer satisfaction, that’s keeping consumers on a tight leash and yanking hard when a new product is unveiled."





Did you read this article? I think not.


-----
[http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/23/technology/microsoft_earnings/index.htm]
When people don't buy PCs because we're in a recession, Windows doesn't go out the door either.
-----
[http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10019711-37.html]
Also a study on brand, not OS.

1 more thing:

Apple - 79

HP - 76

Compaq - 73



Not so far behind. That kind of gap is statistically ignored.

-----
[http://www.blogoflux.com/survey-beta-testers-more-happy-with-windows-7-than-vista/]
Umm.....nothing to do with Apple vs. MS....
-----
[http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2286065,00.asp]
So John Dvorak is an obvious Vista hater. Pretty much his yop 11 reasons not to buy Vista. I don't think he ever gave it a shot....Vista is really not that bad...
-----
[http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2008/12/09/microsoft-talks-up-vista-customer-satisfaction-trend]
Did you read any of these? This one is pretty much saying that Vista users "dislike" Vista because they don't know how to use it and because 44% of them don't update their OS.
-----
Bury my head in the sand for this pathetic list of "surveys" and "studies"...... deam on dude.
















You do know that this thread is about Windows 7 right? Try finding bad things about that.....

[quackadilly]

"Just like Windows is single sourcing - unless you can buy Windows from someone other than Microsoft. If you're really opposed to single sourcing, you should be using a mixture of OSs - not 100% Windows."


Yeah....I'm single sourcing when I upgrade my computer any time I want with whatever hardware I want. Or when other people have DOZENS of PC vendors to choose from...













With Apple, all you have is.....Apple....


-----
"That's true - which is why a wise person looks at multiple surveys. Interestingly, ALL of the available surveys show massive dissatisfaction with Windows."


53% dissatisfaction is freaking horrid too!





I'll bet you half of those survey results blogs are based off the same numbers.

-----
"Actually, if you were ever able to support that, it might be more believable. As it is, Mac fans have provided endless surveys, studies, and so on for decades showing Macs to be easier to use, more productive, more reliable, and higher customer satisfaction. I haven't seen a single piece of factual evidence to support your contention. So maybe it's simply that Mac users prefer facts and Windows fans prefer living in their own fantasy world. That's not to say that Windows isn't widely used, of course. But that's not the issue."



And the Mac troll in you comes out.



If this is true, why does only 7% of corporate employees and 10% of the world use Mac? If it was better, wouldn't more people use it? If Mac was so good that EVERY survey showed Macs easier to use, more stable, blah blah blah.... WHY DOES APPLE STILL HAVE ONLY 10%??????

Explain this to me please. Why do people not want to use the "better" product? Why do we all settle for mediocre technology? Why isn't it Apple that is over the fire for being a monopoly? Why does MS own the (computer) world and not Apple?


-----
"Then why is it that 53% of IT execs said that they're skipping WIndows Vista?"


Because Windows 7 and XP are better for corporations than Vista. It's not about version, its about functionality.


-----
"Pretty good evidence
that you're deluding yourself. Think back to the Windows 95 days. There were months (if not years) of articles in virtually every computer magazine about how windows 95 was going to be just as good as a Mac. Your denial is 100% proof that you're not interested in an honest discussion."


Again, if this were true, why does Apple still only have 10% of the market?

[mistoffolees]

quackadilly said:

Yeah....I'm single sourcing when I upgrade my computer any time I want with whatever hardware I want. Or when other people have DOZENS of PC vendors to choose from...

The point is that when you Mac bashers keep screaming that it's terrible to buy Apple products because Apple is a single source are advocating an OS that comes from a ...... single source. Why is it so terrible to rely on a single source if it's Apple, but OK to rely on Microsoft as a single source?

Quote

53% dissatisfaction is freaking horrid too!

>

First, your numbers are wrong. 53% of Mac OS X users were VERY satisfied and about 80% were either somewhat or very satisfied. I'll take 53% (Mac OS X) very satisfied over 8% (Vista) any day.

Quote

If this is true, why does only 7% of corporate employees and 10% of the world use Mac? If it was better, wouldn't more people use it?

For the same reason that only 1% of car buyers buy BMWs, Ferraris, or Mercedes Benzes. Or not everyone drinks Chateau Lafitte Rothschild? Apple never wanted to be the cheapest and therefore doesn't win the customers who buy the cheapest computer.

If you want to equate "cheapest" with "best", feel free. Fortunately, not everyone sees it that way.

Quote

-----
Because Windows 7 and XP are better for corporations than Vista. It's not about version, its about functionality.

That's not what Microsoft said at release. Vista was supposed to replace XP - but users objected because it was so bad.

Quote

Again, if this were true, why does Apple still only have 10% of the market?

See above.

[mistoffolees]

quackadilly said:

You do know that this thread is about Windows 7 right? Try finding bad things about that.....

Yes, why did you cut out all the quotes that showed that my citations were about Windows?

And I notice that you STILL haven't provided a single shred of evidence that Windows Vista doesn't stink. It took me about 30 seconds to find half a dozen articles that state that it does - and there are hundreds more.

So what should we believe - hundreds of articles saying that Vista customer satisfaction is poor or your own biased opinion?

[quackadilly]

"IIRC, the total satisfaction rate was over 80% for OS X. No one expects perfection or 100% satisfied users. But Mac OS X is consistently far higher than any version of Windows. You keep forgetting to mention that fact."


No, not in the surveys we're talking about.



How do you differentiate between very satisfied and just plain satisfied? It's totally inconsistent from person to person.

I have taken A LOT of statistics classes in college. This is one of the big things you have to keep in mind when setting up a poll. These surveys are totally subjective, and that does not make a good survey. How do you accurately measure peoples' feelings? You can't. (Note that I said "accurately)

[quackadilly]

"First, your numbers are wrong. 53% of Mac OS X users were VERY satisfied and about 80% were either somewhat or very satisfied. I'll take 53% (Mac OS X) very
satisfied over 8% (Vista) any day."


Oops, my bad. 53% "very satisfied"..... not dissatisfied.

[quackadilly]

"Yes, why did you cut out all the quotes that showed that my citations were about Windows?"


This is about OSX beating Vista in customer satisfaction. Thats why.

-----
"And I notice that you STILL haven't provided a single shred of evidence that Windows Vista doesn't stink. It took me about 30 seconds to find half a dozen articles that state that it does - and there are hundreds more."


I'm satisfied with it. Thats all I need.

-----
"So what should we believe - hundreds of articles saying that Vista customer satisfaction is poor or your own biased opinion?"


Because it's been stated that these articles are skewed in Apple's favor by misleading questions. Actually, in one of the reports that you posted.....imagine that.

[quackadilly]

Not talking about the OS. It's about the whole package. With an Apple, all you get is Apple. With a non-Apple, you get HP, DELL, Compaq, Acer, Toshiba.......
-----
"For the same reason that only 1% of car buyers buy BMWs, Ferraris, or Mercedes Benzes. Or not everyone drinks Chateau Lafitte Rothschild?"


Why? Because not all of us are stuck up and think that our Sh@t doesn't stink. Apple is an "elitist"name. You buy Apple and you're awesome because you payed more.....yeah right, get a life.

-----
"That's not what Microsoft said at release. Vista was supposed to replace XP - but users objected because it was so bad."


Well MS can't tell the world what to do. MS thought Vista would be better for a business than XP, turned out they were wrong. When have you ever listened to MS? Why start now?

-----
"See above."


Yes, exactly.

[WinTard]

[quote name='mistoffolees']
>

quackadilly said:

>
> You do know that this thread is about Windows 7 right? Try finding bad things about that.....

Yes, why did you cut out all the quotes that showed that my citations were about Windows?

And I notice that you STILL haven't provided a single shred of evidence that Windows Vista doesn't stink. It took me about 30 seconds to find half a dozen articles that state that it does - and there are hundreds more.

So what should we believe - hundreds of articles saying that Vista customer satisfaction is poor or your own biased opinion?

It took me about um, Google: Results 1 - 10 of about 86,700 for os x stinks. (0.19 seconds) ;)

Well you brought up the subject.

[mistoffolees]

WinTard said:

Quote

>
> So what should we believe - hundreds of articles saying that Vista customer satisfaction is poor or your own biased opinion?
>


It took me about um, Google: Results 1 - 10 of about 86,700 for os x stinks. (0.19 seconds) ;)

Well you brought up the subject.

Yes, but I didn't expect that anyone would be foolish enough to think that your method had any validity.

Of course, if you want to use your method:

vista stinks 196,000
windows stinks 535,000
microsoft stinks 260,000
"os x stinks" 146 (with quotes)
"vista stinks" 3,130