[dogrivergrad68]

I can read just fine. The RDF is clouding your ability to think objectively, though.

[guitz]

How strikingly naive to write an article pretty much based on pictures of people, or lack thereof, waiting in line....THAT's the major basis of calling the pre a 'fizzle'? Even I , a non-scribe web surfer found articles straight from Palms higher ups days before the pre launch that they FULLY expected NOT to have big lines and even more important acknowledged the VERY limited availability of these phones at day 1. I'm embarrassed for you for your lack of research on this. Pre will do just fine...especially in the coming months when other carriers offer it.

[achristie]

Hey 1MacGeek! Palm is up over almost 6% today while Apple is down almost 3%. Meanwhile, the overall markets remain essentially unchanged. According to the logic you were using yesterday, the Pre is a now a HUGE success and Apple is headed for bankruptcy! Oh no, wait! Was it just that some obscure analyst said something good about Palm again and all the investors decided to give this guy that nobody heard of TOTAL credibility and they've decided to completely ignore the atrocious financials (which, according to you, completely eliminates any possibility for Palm to survive no matter how well the Pre does) and throw all their money at Palm, yet again? Or maybe you have yet another hilarious theory about the how stock markets and trading psychology works! Come on man, where are ya? I need a good laugh today!

[swagg]

lmao! yeah i need a good laugh too, and i think i just got it!

[1MacGeek]

achristie said:

According to the logic you were using yesterday, the Pre is a now a HUGE
success and Apple is headed for bankruptcy!

I never said that, and you know it. I have consistently said Palm has a lousy balance sheet, and it doesn't have the cash to fight Apple. Unless they add 200 points to the price of Palm's stock they still won't.

Quote

Oh no, wait! Was it just that some obscure analyst said something good
about Palm again and all the investors decided to give this guy that nobody
heard of TOTAL credibility and they've decided to completely ignore the
atrocious financials (which, according to you, completely eliminates any
possibility for Palm to survive no matter how well the Pre does) and throw
all their money at Palm, yet again?

Actually, it was Credit Suisse First Boston, and the financial sector is trying to figure out if they have lost their minds, or if they know something someone else doesn't - like if CSFB will be extending a line of credit to Palm to give them a chance to see if the Pre can salvage the company. Which also matches what I have said, which is that without some cash infusion from somewhere Palm could only go bankrupt. All I know is CSFB is issuing guidance which is way out of line with the rest of the street.

Quote

Or maybe you have yet another hilarious theory about the how stock markets
and trading psychology works! Come on man, where are ya? I need a good laugh today!

I would remind you the day is young so far as trading goes. If I were to put money on the line, it would go to betting that CSFB is doing a pump 'n' dump. It would be interesting to know precisely how many shares of Palm CSFB owns, and when they sold them. This really should be something for the SEC to look into since CFSB is so far out of line with everyone else in the market.

[jabberwolf]

Again im still laughing at people having issues in the workplace with active sync and the iphone!
I'm upset with Sprint, because they dont have the fricken Pre on stock!
As for 1MacGeek, I'm sure he's one of many paid Apple bloggers or - someone who thinks he's leading a revolution or something because he can't get a real tech job, so rides a trend wave.
But I think most are seeing through this lately and beginning to laugh like the rest of us.
Sometimes a joke takes awhile for an entire population to understand.

[jabberwolf]

"Or maybe you have yet another hilarious theory about the how stock markets
and trading psychology works! Come on man, where are ya? I need a good laugh today!"
Um ok lets forget about short trading and take a look at a long trade of Palm stock. If I bought palm at the beginning of the year at 2.5 and sold today at 13, I too would be laughing.
Any theory about THAT?
"Oh no, wait! Was it just that some obscure analyst said something good"
Yeah you keep thinking its just a fluke, while Apple stock fluctuates on a liver transplant of a guy who cant even program.

[achristie]

[~217988]

Thanks man! I knew you'd come through with more comedic genius!! You should apply as a writer for SNL, I'm sure they'd love your stuff!

So it's a pump and dump consipracy now! Awesome! Do you think aliens from another planet are involved? Maybe all the analysts wereabducted by a UFO. Yeah, it's all coming together now. Palm is actually being controlled by a rogue species on a planet in another galaxy and this "pump and dump" scheme is their first step to taking over our planet! Dude! You're a genius! I'm sorry I ever doubted your intelligence! You'll be a true hero when this story breaks on CNN!

[rfceo]

jabberwolf I'm upset with Sprint, because they dont have the fricken Pre on stock!

I feel your pain, but Sprint is not manufacturing the phone. I read somewhere that a chip supplier was lagging a bit.
The ads are starting to hit so lets hope they get some units available soon. Saw 2 on CBS last night during prime time, one by Palm and one by Sprint.

[bulletstorm]

Let me see.... the Palm Pre has only been out for roughly 3 weeks. The iphone has had 3 versions of it in 2 years. The Pre has everything the old, and new Iphone has with the exeption of Apps (only about 30) or video (iphone just got that ability). And its a fail already?? Come talk to me next year, when the Iphone finally is able to multitask, has a removable battery, a physical keyboard, not Itune locked, auto syncs, and changes the design. Till then, I will keep enjoying my Palm Pre.

[davoaxiom]

Before the release of the first iPhone there was huge media blitz and build up. I remember seeing anywhere from 3 to 4 per hours for up to 6 months before it's release. This has not been the case with the pre due the issue of sprint and palm not having the stock. They could have waited but it would have effected the first half of 2009 promise both had made.
Everyone goes on and on about the Pre iTunes sync. Personally I could do without it. The driving force behind iTunes is not how good of a program it is but the iStore and the fact that you can't sync an iPod any other way. The program is terrible on a windows machine. I don't think I've ever ran it on my laptop without it causing the system to freeze up or crash. All those Apple fan boys are going to say that's cause Windows sucks but every other media program loads faster, reacts faster and doesn't cause a complete system slow down. I hate the way that iTunes sync and hides the music, it's just one more way of Apple treating people like children. I've used both WMP, iTunes and DoubleTwist with no problems and MWP did it in half the time. Also I can drag and drop or delete by just plunging the thing in. Try that with an iAnything.
Oh and everyone on Verizon waiting for Pre to be available, you might end up very disappointed come January. The quote that seems to have been a trick to steal Sprints thunder stated, "a WebOS Device". That could be the Pre or it could be a completely different device running WebOS.
As far as the tethering or phone as modem goes, I'm beginning to wonder if this is Sprint and AT&T pushing their much more costly Air-cards. I had phone as modem on my HTC for over a year and was paying $15 a month for the service to have an Air-card costs $69.99 a month. If they opened this up to all of their phones would anyone pay $69.99 a month? To date I've had no clear explanation of the huge price difference.

[achristie]

Hi David Coursey, 1MacGeek, and Biggkatt01... just wonder if you've seen this article on AppleInsider. Sure seems to be a lot of good news for what you guys call a failure.

[achristie]

And here's the article...
http://www.appleinsi.../09/06/23/applehaspsystarslawsuitstayliftedpalmpreunhurtbyiphone.html

[Biggkatt01]

Achriste, I have grown to luv you on this discussion that was a wonderful article you linked us to.

Now point 1 they got the infomation from a palm exec which I have no problems with and i would like to know where the proof is for his observations, Give us the numbers I will have no problem believing the Pre is selling when the cowards at Palm & Sprint GIVE US THE NUMBERS its not hard Apple did it Palm can aswell.

Now point 2 you can,t sell out of a phone that has no stock palm said the phone was out of stock so how can you sellout of something that is not in stock all you are doing is full filling orders you already have not new ones. selling out means you ship a product it sells out and then you ship out some more product and it sells out, that means your stores have it (not just 1 or 2 stores) and they sell out of there stock again .

Listen I told you I don't like the phone I don't think its good but thats my opinion, But if the Pre had massive sales figures I would have to eat my words but it doesn't so I don't. it's quite simple Apple had great sales figures and released their numbers all Palm has to do is released their numbers but they won't and thats because their afraid to they no the sales aren't there.

Now I don't like the Pre but like I said I believe it would have sold better if they produced more units and released it on Verizon. i know people who wanted the phone but got mad at Sprint and Palm and went and purchased the new Iphone I keep saying this is a situation Palm put itself in,marketing wise unit wise they should have planned better they didn't so now there paying the price.

I've used the phone and I have yet to see how its better then my Iphone I just don't see it. and lets don't talk about the keyboard (can't use it) muti tasking ( super battery drain) But I said and will say again it's a place for the both of them Palm just isn't beating the Iphone.

As soon as you link us to an article where Palm is releasing their official sales numbers that are at least 300,00 units on its launch 3 day period not up until now but their launch day figures then you will become the king on this discusion.

[1MacGeek]

achristie said:

Hi David Coursey, 1MacGeek, and Biggkatt01... just wonder if you've seen this
article on AppleInsider. Sure seems to be a lot of good news for what you guys call a failure.

You're kidding, right?

Please show me one definitive statement in that story.

"We still have a backlog of subscribers but it's not unmanageable" - ok, how many? 2? 10? 30?

"we get shipments every week" - how many?

"Further estimates, however, had Sprint doubling its total sales count in less than a week" - how many? Analysts are saying sales are falling week-on-week. Are they right?

"any big change" - how much is big? Was the Pre not selling to expectations to begin with?

"and believes that the Pre is both drawing in converts from rivals as well as preventing existing customers from jumping ship" - Believes? Are there any hard numbers? Did you consult a psychic? If you don't know, who would?

Apple made no bones about its numbers. Why don't we hear anything definitive from Palm? If it is a success, why don't we hear a hard number bandied about?

What is Palm afraid of?

[achristie]

Palm is doing NOTHING different than what they've done from the day the Pre won Best in Show, People's Voice Award, Laptop Magazine's Best Cell Phone, and Popular Mechanics Top 18 Products at CES 2009. They are being patient, which in my opinion, is smart. When all the naysayers were interpreting Palm's silence as some kind of failure, such as hardware problems or software bugs or not being able to meet their target release timeframe of the frist half of 09, Palm remained quiet. They paid NO attention whatsoever to those naysayers, they just went on about their business. Yet, they came through just like they said they would. They released a GREAT phone that, from what I can find, does NOT have the problems that you guys are claiming, such as overheating and software instability. I have yet to see any reports of overheating (mine certainly doesn't) and if there were any software instability issues, I would see them because I've been using mine almost constantly since I got it at 8:00 AM on the day it was released.
I'm quite confident they are doing the exact same thing with their sales numbers. When they're ready to release the sales numbers, they will. According to you guys, they should have been protoming the phone before they had sustainable stock. However, Palm and Sprint are patient. They'll start promoting heavily (this week) when they are closer to being able to support the increased demand.
It's awefully ironic that you don't want to believe that there are still stores with waiting lists, yet YOU are the guys who are repeatedly saying that the Sprint stores in your area have plenty of Pres, but you REFUSE to tell me where you live so that I can veify the claim... WTF??
There's a pretty common thread amongst you guys that's very obvious to even the most casual reader... any positive news about the Pre is suspect... some type of conspiracy going on or someone lying or someone is withholding information or someone's not telling the whole truth or whatever. HOWEVER, if it's BAD news about the Pre, then it's taken as gospel... it's GOT to be true! Yet the opposite is true for Apple iPhone news. As soon as we hear that Apple has sold 1 million iPhone 3GS's, about double than what they projected, then that's GOT to be TRUE! NO questions asked!
So Biggkatt01, I didn't know you made the rules of the forum. So you get to come up with an arbitrary sales numbers that Palm needs to meet in order for ME to be King of discussion?? I fail to see your logic here? Did I ever claim those numbers? No... not only that, I don't understand your concept of "king of discussion". Palm did NOT sell 300k units in the first three days... I think we all know that! I am NOT in a Pre vs. iPhone battle here. I'm just here to call out your unfounded, rediculous claims that the Pre sucks with all kinds of flaws and issues and has already failed.
Biggkatt01: Point 1 - Do you think a Palm exec is going to lie about the numbers when he's obvioulsy going to be exposed when the official numbers are released?
Point 2 - Are you reversing your position now? You said that the Sprint stores in your area had plenty of stock. I don't know what you're reading, but what I've been reading and what the employees at the local Sprint stores have told me is that they are getting shipments in 2 or 3 times a week. Everytime they do, they work their way down the waiting list. However, the waiting list continues to grow as more and more people learn about the Pre.
And finally, here are some things that greatly improve my productivity and overall user satisfaction on my Pre that you simply CANNOT do on an iPhone. When working in ANY application, I can see mini-alerts at the bottom of my screen for incoming email, texts, and any other alerts from other applications (like the song and artist when Pandora plays a new song) without having to exit out of the application. I can also see the first line of text which normally gives me enough information to let me know if I need to switch to that alert immediately, which I can do quickly and easily by simply tapping the alert, or if I can just keep doing what I'm doing. So let's say I'm playing Connect Four with an online opponent. While I'm waiting on my opponent to take his turn, I can go surf the net. When it's my turn, I'll get an alert letting me know I need to switch back to take my turn. Or, let's say I'm writing an email while listening to Pandora. A new song comes on that I want to give a thumbs up to. No need to switch, I can do it at the bottom alert, where I can also pause and play the song and see artist and song title. And of course, being able to switch between running applications with just a single swipe of my finger is also pretty friggin awesome!

[rfceo]

A good reveiw http://www.eweek.com...in-Smartphones/

It seems easy to judge an old smartphone from years ago as not being as good as today's smartphones, but that's not just because of speeds and feeds or just the industrial design. What makes one smartphone better than another is a combination of the materials used, the industrial design that integrates those materials, the user interface, the services provided, and how clever and intuitive the system is. Here, Knowledge Center mobile and wireless analyst J. Gerry Purdy shares 10 reasons why he thinks the Palm Pre is the best smartphone to date.

This is a fairly long review.

[achristie]

Hey David... here are some more positive Pre news stories that you can never seem to find. Just trying to help you out, buddy!
http://apple20.blogs...rce=yahoo_quote
http://online.barron...od=yahoobarrons
http://www.streetinsider.com/AnalystComments/DeutscheBankThinksPalm(PALM)WillAnnounceStrong+Results/4751706.html
So whacha think, 1MacGeek? Ya think Deutsche Bank and RBC are in on this pump and dump too? They're doing a damn good job, pumping the stock up another 5% today. Oh right... the day is young, just like you said yesterday.

[1MacGeek]

rfceo said:

A good reveiw
www.eweek.com/c/a/Mobile-and-Wireless/Why-the-Palm-Pre-is-a-Major-Advancement-in-Smartphones/

Point by point rebuttal :

1. The Palm Pre is the first to fully integrate multitasking - the Pre also has the shortest battery life of any smartphone, and is having overheating issues because of it.
2. The Palm Pre is the first to allow information from multiple sources to be integrated into a single application - how many users will actually take advantage of this "feature" (which will also add to shortened battery life)? 3%? 2%?
3. The Palm Pre is designed using open Web standards - the standards of today. Assuming Palm is around that long, what happens when HTML 5 comes out? What happens if any of the core technologies changes?
4. The Palm Pre's on-device App Store is powered by PocketGear - so the fact the store isn't controlled, built, or managed by Palm is a positive feature? Wow. Nothing like calling the baby ugly.
5. The Palm Pre's real, pull-out keyboard is very important for business users - and those users really want a landscape keyboard, not a portrait one.
6. The Palm Pre has solid integration and synchronization with Outlook - as does the iPhone. For less money. And with more storage space.
7. The Palm Pre thinks of applications as activity cards - which drain the battery like there is no tomorrow. Not to mention the "cards" idea is vintage Apple technology from the 1990's : HyperCard anyone?
8. The Palm Pre comes with media sync - which Apple will break at the first opportunity. Also, isn't this a tacit admission Apple just does the whole media thing better than anyone else? If that is so, then what reason is there to buy a Pre?
9. The Palm Pre has built-in e-mail - so does the iPhone, but you don't have to rely on third-party vendors to make it happen.
10. The Palm Pre's UI goes to the next level - and it might tread on Apple's patents. It's up in the air as to whether Apple is going after Palm for infringement, or not.
11. The rest of the problems, as cited by the author :

? making clipboard cut/copy/paste easier to use
? copying portions of a Web page
? viewing the phone log
? setting the homepage
? viewing a summary of events in the Calendar
? adding keyboard shortcuts and adding categories for the Contacts

All of which are after-thoughts on the iPhone. And not to mention game developers are NOT going to rush to the Pre until they number in the millions, which may never happen. And what of parental controls? Does the Pre even have them?

No, this was a nice PR piece, but a review it was not.

[achristie]

Please cite the source for the overheating issues! You keep making this claim but I have yet to see a source and I have yet to experience the problem or hear of anyone experiencing the problem (I personally know three other Pre owners)!
As far as battery life, I have two comments. It's definitely shorter than what I would like, but it's not as bad as you make it sound and, as with everything else in life, it's a tradeoff. The Pre has FANTASTIC features that come at the cost of shorter battery life. And the other comment that you are either unaware of or are unwilling to acknowledge is that fact that you can actually swap out the battery and after market batteries that last twice as long are already available. I won't be buying one because it's just not an issue for me. But at least Pre owners do have that option.

You proved the point that I made yesterday that ALL positive news/reviews about the Pre are suspect to you (PR piece), whereas all negative news/reviews are gospel.