[davoaxiom]

I think the roaming minutes is standard. In fact most carriers will charge for any roaming minutes.

I have to ask if your current AT&T Plan includes text messaging? The fact is that AT&T charges $30 per line.

With my current business plan I have 3 lines with 1500 shared minutes, unlimited text and data, free nights and weekend, mobile to mobile, insurance and I'm paying around $160 a month. Last time I went to AT&T and asked about jumping ship from Sprint was right after the iPhone came out. They wanted me to pay full price for the phone and it was going to be $130 a month plus insurance. Additional lines I think were around $30 per line. So it was going to come to around $1200 for the phones and then $190 a month. When at the time I was spending around $115 for the same thing at sprint and was discounted on upgrades.

The only reason that AT&T prices are any getting any better is they see both the Pre, Sprint and verizon as a threat. I think that's a good thing for everyone. Maybe Ma Bell will improve it's service and lower it's prices.

[achristie]

Hey, 1MacGeek, you do realize that those numbers DON'T include Pre sales, right? EVERYONE knew those numbers would be bad, however, they actually thought the results would be much worse.

So in summary, here's how stupid 1MacGeek is... he calls an earnings announcement that was MUCH better than what the street predicted, that sent the stock soaring 15.69% to a 52 week high, a "disaster". So EVEN when a company does MUCH better, it's a disaster to him. And 1MacGeek, I supposed you still think you're right about Palm stock being in a downward trend since the release of the Pre. All this coming from the guy who claimed that the Sprint stores in his area have plenty of Pres but refuses to tell me what area that is, after numerous direct requests, so that I can call the stores in that area.

So hey man, are you still running with the pump and dump story or are you going to change that story too? Maybe Palms cooking the books? I'm sure there are plenty of other stories you can come up with if the previous story starts unraveling.

I don't know if you actually believe the bile that you spew, but everyone is on to you. I suggest you go find another site to spread your propeganda. It's simply not working here.

[achristie]

I thought the article was interesting. Nobody has really brought up the open source issue on here. I think the Apple fanboys really underestimate the power for rapid development on an open source platform.

http://blogs.techrep...10things/?p=808

[rfceo]

When we compare Sprints plan with at&t we must be fair to at&t and add everything in that they charge extra for.

.............................................att................ sprint

Rate Plan Details....................$99.00.............$99.00

Anytime Minutes Both unlimited

Night & Weekend time..........at&t 9pm-6am......Sprint 7pm-7am
Night & Weekend minutes*.. at&t Unlimited.....Sprint Unlimited
Mobile to Mobile minutes......at&t Unlimited.....Sprint Unlimited
AT&T Unity Minutes... Not Included
Long Distance.....................at&t $0.00...........Sprint $0.00
Roaming Charges................at&t $0.00...........Sprint $0.00
Additional minutes...............at&t $0.00...........Sprint $0.00
Contract length...................at&t 2 years.........Sprint 2 years
Data Unlimited for iPhone....at&t $30.00...........Sprint..included
AT&T Navigator..................at&t $9.99.............Sprint..included
unlimited Text Messaging...at&t $20.00...........Sprint.. included
AT&T Mobile TV Basic.......at&t $15.00...........Sprint.. included

total..................................at&t.. $173.99......Sprint..$99.00

[1MacGeek]

achristie said:

he calls an earnings announcement that was MUCH better than what the
street predicted, that sent the stock soaring 15.69% to a 52 week high, a "disaster".

No. I called the RESULTS a disaster. Really, people - lay off the weed. It makes you look really stupid when you can't read.

achristie said:

So EVEN when a company does MUCH better, it's a disaster to him.

What company did MUCH better? As I mentioned, the difference between expectations and reality vis-a-vis Palm was about 25%.

achristie said:

And 1MacGeek, I supposed you still think you're right about Palm stock
being in a downward trend since the release of the Pre.

It was. As I said before, and which you are not inclined to read since it may make you think before you shoot your mouth off, the stock WAS trending down until some unknown analyst gave it a bump. The bump wore off, and it was on the way back down when CSFB make a buy recommendation, then it was bumped again.

Tell you what - if I am wrong about the stock being overvalued then the stock will be up from today's close a month from now. Check back then and we will see who was the jabbering idiot.

achristie said:

All this coming from the guy who claimed that the Sprint stores in his area
have plenty of Pres but refuses to tell me what area that is, after numerous
direct requests, so that I can call the stores in that area.

You know, it's really starting to piss me off you making claims on things I never said. I never said they had plenty - that was you. I said they had them. I didn't check stock levels, I just walked into the stores and asked if they had one I could buy, and every one said yes.

Also, I told you the stores I checked were those NOT in multi-million population cities. So that would be a big section of the country considered fly-over country. You know, what the people there call America's heartland.

So since reading isn't your strong suit, nor thinking, I don't suppose you rubbed two brain cells together to come up with an answer of why Sprint is discounting the Pre if it is such a hot seller. In business that is a really dumb thing to do, unless a product isn't selling. So that would say to me - a rational businessman with critical thinking skills that either (a) someone at Palm was smoking weed when they came up with the idea, or (b) the Pre isn't selling as well as we have been lead to believe.

I note that Palm didn't release any hard, verifiable numbers when they released their financials. Again they were using superlatives, but never a hard number that could be checked. Why is that? I know you don't care, but someone around here would can think might.

achristie said:

So hey man, are you still running with the pump and dump story or are you
going to change that story too? Maybe Palms cooking the books? I'm sure
there are plenty of other stories you can come up with if the previous story
starts unraveling.

No need. If I am wrong, I have enough integrity to admit it - unlike you. You won't even read what I write, you read what you want to see and then attribute to me things I never claimed. That is a lack of integrity. If the hard evidence is there, I have no problem what-so-ever admitting I am wrong.

I don't know if you actually believe the bile that you spew, but everyone is on
to you. I suggest you go find another site to spread your propeganda.
It's simply not working here.

That, madam, is what we call a lie. Well, bad spelling and a lie. Were my words to carry no weight there would be no response, especially from you. Since you respond, it gives lie to your statement above. What twists your knickers in a knot is that deep down inside, you know I am right. That's the reason - or so I believe - that you have to make things up and attribute them to me - you simply cannot refute the numbers. You can't refute the logic, and you sure don't have the business education to refute the business reasoning I am using. So like a petulant toddler, you make things up and try to beat me over the head with them.

The problem is simply that it isn't working for YOU. I believe more people would say I am honest and have integrity than would say that about you. Sure, I may be biased, but I note that not one single person on here can counter my reasoning, or logic so they attack me directly but never my argument. They may not like what I have said, but they can't disagree with why I said it. Well, at least if they were honest, too.

[1MacGeek]

cyberstven said:

Mac Geek. You are a douche.

1. Dude, I'm tellin' ya - lay off the weed.

2. Invest in a new invention - it's called a "spell checker". But lay off the weed, first.

3. Nobody is forcing you to read anything.

[1MacGeek]

rfceo said:

total..................................at&t.. $173.99......Sprint..$99.00

I am sorry, but that just isn't true. I just posted earlier about the deal Sprint sent to me to lure my business away from AT&T and the basic plans for both match at 450 minutes WITH NO ROLLOVER MINUTES FOR SPRINT. Somehow, you guys just keep forgetting to mention that little detail.

And as I mentioned before, Sprint cost more than I am currently paying for a comparable plan from AT&T. Just to be clear - for voice and data I am paying less per month than Sprint wants for the data only plan for the Pre at $70 per month.

My nights and weekends do not start at 9, they start at 6 pm, a full hour before Sprint. I had not thought to mention this until I saw it on your list.

And seriously - who uses Mobile TV? Just throwing numbers in there to inflate the total is pretty weak.

On my AT&T bill, even with all the taxes, fees, and extra charges thrown in on ALL cell phones monthly, I am still less than Sprint BEFORE those charges go on.

[davoaxiom]

1Macgeek

I'm not sure what you are talking about. AT&T advertises their prices as those listed above. The only thing I can think of is you are sharing minutes and dividing the total of the bill by phone. If you want to do that I'm paying about $50 at sprint per line for 500 minutes. While you are paying $70. And rollover minutes, really that's the best you can do, rollover minutes.

As far as the $50 off, it sounds like they are targeting AT&T business accounts. I get a flyer from every major mobile provider about once every 3 months offering either free phones or discounts on phones to switch from sprint. It's a standard business practice you suck them in with the great deal and then get them into a 2 year contract.

I in fact live in one of those heartland under a million cities. Des Moines, IA and I can tell you they still have a waiting list at both of the sprint stores. I was in Best Buy last Monday and asked if they had any in stock and the reply was, "I get asked 100 times a day and there is about 50 on the waiting list last time I checked." He went on to tell me that they keep getting 5 to 10 twice a week and the waiting list keeps getting longer. As he put it they would be selling 50 of them a day if they had them in stock. Not the best source I will admit but I think it is safe to say the Pre is still selling and most of the retailers can't keep them on the shelf.

As far as Palm stock goes. Really don't care but I find it interesting that they released their biggest product in years right aftter years end. I've heard that the stock problems have been caused by lack of supply thanks to Apple but I really have to wonder if it was simply Palm didn't have the capitol to manufacture the phones in the numbers to keep up with demand. So on this one I'm in the middle of the road. However they have a winner here if they can just keep up with demand. I think as Palm and Sprint begin to advertise and the stock gets to the level it should have been from the start, you are going to see a lot of Pres out there. Then after the first of the year, if it goes to other carriers there will be no stopping it.

[lemajr]

I own a small Defense contractor business. I do have an iphone (switched from a Blackberry). All of my application developers are standardized on Macs... although we do have 5 Dell PCs in the office. My employees have a mixture of iphones and blackberries. ... so I guess I am bias.

I have been trading Palm for the past month due to its volatility .... made and loss $ both long and short ... Once it went above $14 and then $15, I am short bias ...

Due to the run-up in the stock price yesterday and listening in on the conference call .... I broke down and went to a Sprint store in Fairfax, VA (Fair Oaks Mall) today to see what all of the hype is about. Spent about 15 minutes with the Sprint rep and also spent time playing with the Pre (they had 2 demo models on display) along with another customer (in his mid-40's). We both did not get it. The phone felt cheap; way too small. Felt ridiculous even holding it. Felt even more odd trying to type ... Pull out key board is practically unusable. I am sure that I am just used to typing on the iphone virtual keyboard (with automatic complete). The rep said that "you will get use to it"....refering to our typing... so we asked the rep to type a test message; she couldn't even do with out fumbling all over.

Anyway, I asked did she have any for sale and if there is a waiting list. At this store they had 9 available plus the 2 on display. In the same Mall, there is a Best Buy Mobile store and a Radio Shack. The Best Buy had a plastic phone display. The Best Buy rep said that he cannot tell me how many is in inventory .... but I could buy one today. The Radio Shack had a waiting list... but upon further digging... At least for Radio Shacks in this area... they are not slated to get Pres until August.... That is when his Distributor said the Pre launch will get to Radio Shack.

I ran an unscientific experiment... Using the Sprint location locator... I called 15 stores in each of the following cities randomly (note that none would tell me how many Pres did they have in stock)... Fairfax, VA, Philadelphia, PA (got many stores in NJ), Boston, MA, San Francisco, CA, Orlando, FL and Washington, DC. Out of all of the calls... all of the stores had Pres for sale and with 1 or 2 demos ... only 6 stores had a waiting list ... including the 3 stores that said that they had a waiting ... but if I came in right away, I can buy one today - huh? I did call the 5 Best Buy stores (not Best Buy mobile stores) in VA. All 5 said that they only get a few Pres... and all 5 are willing to put me on their waiting list. Did not call Radio Shack.

Palm was able to book revenues and costs based on shipmenst of 60,000 - 70,000 Pres (according to analysts) in May ... and by showing this in the NON-GAAP numbers .... it was able to beat the concensus numbers (b/c none of the analysts included Pre shipments in their proforma)... The issue I have is with the balance sheet and mainly with cash flow... just don't see how, over the next 2 -3 quarters, Palm would not have to raise capital. I have to make payroll every 2 weeks... my main concern every hour is cashflow.

I am assuming that the short squeeze is pushing the stock way up... just cannot believe how this price is sustainable... although I have been wrong recently since the high $14's shorting it.... and got out at a loss in the mid 15's. I could not borrow any today to short in the $16's.... so will try again on Monday. I have read a few analyst reports... I tend to believe the ones stating $9 - 14.... of course, at this time, we all are wrong as Palm closed at $16.22. I am waiting see what happens as we get pass the end of the calendar 2nd Quarter... and into next month... if this is a short squeeze and is the primary driver for the run up... or that it is possible for Palm to have an infinity PE (or assuming .20 earnings at the end of Q4 2010.. to have a PE of 155 assuming current close price) and still continue to climb.

[Blove23]

Ok MacGeek, first of you are lying about your plan.The Paln for the Iphone is 450 minutes for $69.99 and if you have unlimited texting you would pay an extra $20. Your total would be $89.99 plus taxes depending on where you live $100. The avgerage Iphone bill is a $100. AT&T does not insure the Iphone because they get $400 each time an Iphone is sold. That's why you pay $199 for an Iphone. Before you speak on behalf of Apple make sure you know what you are talking about. Stop lying to the people .

[1MacGeek]

davoaxiom said:

I'm not sure what you are talking about. AT&T advertises their prices as those listed above.
The only thing I can think of is you are sharing minutes and dividing the total of the bill by phone.

And you would be wrong. I do not share a single minute with any other cell phone in the entire universe.

Tell me - do you pay full price for your cars, too? Do you pay full price for everything you buy?

davoaxiom said:

As far as the $50 off, it sounds like they are targeting AT&T business accounts.

Granted, as I believe this to be the case as well. However, (a) why the conflicting language on the coupon? and (b) why discount the Pre if it is selling as hot as Sprint and Palm would have us believe? That's just pure madness!

davoaxiom said:

I in fact live in one of those heartland under a million cities. Des Moines, IA
and I can tell you they still have a waiting list at both of the sprint stores.

I must admit I had not checked when I went through Des Moines. I will check again in a couple of weeks and see what is going on then.

davoaxiom said:

As far as Palm stock goes. Really don't care but I find it interesting that
they released their biggest product in years right aftter years end. I've
heard that the stock problems have been caused by lack of supply thanks
to Apple but I really have to wonder if it was simply Palm didn't have the
capitol to manufacture the phones in the numbers to keep up with demand.

That is my conclusion - look, they have 1/2 a years worth of cash. My big question - everything else tossed aside for the moment - is this : will Palm be there to honor any warranty during the two year contract with Sprint. And judging by the balance sheet, I cannot answer that in the affirmative and keep a straight face.

Doubling their losses and more than halving their revenue should have made the risk-loving investor head for the hills. And all sorts of warning bells should have gone off when (a) Palm refused guidance for the next quarter, and (b) they never used one solid number to describe Pre sales. Mark my words - there will be an SEC investigation come of this. Fools rush in where angels fear to tread...

davoaxiom said:

So on this one I'm in the middle of the road. However they have a winner here
if they can just keep up with demand. I think as Palm and Sprint begin to
advertise and the stock gets to the level it should have been from the start,
you are going to see a lot of Pres out there. Then after the first of the year,
if it goes to other carriers there will be no stopping it.

And I don't necessarily disagree with that statement, provided Palm fixes the things the present owners are complaining about. I can picture warranty costs eating Palm alive if they do not, but we shall see. It would also be nice to see some verifiable numbers on sales, but we can't have everything can we?

But all the above makes the assumption there won't be a class-action lawsuit over the whole battery-life issue. If I were forced to pick one thing - beyond financials - as Palm's single, fatal mistake it would be setting unrealistic expectations on battery life. Everyone else has been burned over it, including Apple. I would be shocked if someone wasn't shopping for an attorney at this very moment. Remember, it was Palm who bragged up the five hour talk-time for the Pre and not anyone else. It was Palm who hyped the Pre as the iPhone killer, and they encouraged everyone else to do so as well. I think they are going to have to blow a good chunk of that $255 million defending that lawsuit when it comes, not if.

[1MacGeek]

Blove23 said:

Ok MacGeek, first of you are lying about your plan.The Paln for the Iphone
is 450 minutes for $69.99 and if you have unlimited texting you would pay
an extra $20.

You are wrong on a couple of fronts : (a) I am not lying, I am merely better at business than you, and (b) when did I ever say I had unlimited texting? Texting - for the most part - is for teenagers. I use e-mail because it doesn't cost me anything. The only thing I use texting for are news alerts set up with Google for items that could affect my business. Those alerts are well within the 200 message standard limit, but invaluable for real-time business intelligence.

Blove23 said:

Your total would be $89.99 plus taxes depending on where you live $100.

My bill is less than $70 per month AFTER the taxes.

Blove23 said:

The avgerage Iphone bill is a $100.

I will agree there are many fools out there quickly parted from their money - I am happy to report I am not among them.

Blove23 said:

AT&T does not insure the Iphone because they get $400 each time an Iphone is sold.
That's why you pay $199 for an Iphone. Before you speak on behalf of
Apple make sure you know what you are talking about. Stop lying to the people .

Again, wrong on at least two fronts :

(a) That's why YOU pay $199 for an iPhone. I did not.

(b) I can't stop lying because I never started in the first place. Everything I have said is the 100%, unvarnished truth. That you make assumptions based on incomplete or incorrect information is your own fault.

Let me give you a quick education on business relationships : they work to your benefit if you do them correctly, and well. I have been with AT&T for many years now, and I work with one agent and one agent alone. I do everything reasonable and necessary to advance his career, such as sending him referrals. He has done so well - in part because of me - he has now risen to be assistant manager of the store I use. I have to be careful, because if they make him a manager they may also transfer him, but I digress.

Naturally, helping his star to rise generates a certain sense of gratitude. That gratitude is expressed in me accessing deals which are not normally available to general members of the public, which would be you. You see son, when you make others around you more powerful, you become more powerful in return. That is a mutually beneficial business relationship. That is how one acquires wealth by never paying full price for anything. Whereas you are focused on cost, I am focused on value. Learning and knowing the difference between the two is one facet of knowing the secret to acquiring true wealth.

School is dismissed.

[jabberwolf]

Good lord, are you still at it?

Its been 3 days of this crap... get over it iphone sucks.
We know you base your entire life on it, no one else would harp on this as long as you.

But trust us, if the iphone isnt as up to it, that's not a reflection on you. Really it isnt!!!

We'll all use a better product, and when you're all alone with your iphone and everyone has moved on, maybe you will too.

Good grief and good riddance!

[rfceo]

You want business plan info here you go starting at $69 and you get all below INCLUDED. I know you pay 70 with taxes, but only have voice and data, I will check and see what a comparable plan would be, but here is their everything for business, for starters.

Give your employees the tools they need to succeed with 24/7 email access, unlimited texting to always stay connected and driving directions to every important meeting.
This plan includes
Unlimited data: Web surfing, email, BlackBerry Internet Services (BIS), GPS Navigation, Music Premier, TV Premier, NFL Mobile Live, NASCAR Sprint Cup MobileSM
Unlimited Direct Connect: Direct Connect and Group Connect (for capable phones)
Unlimited messaging: Text, pictures and video
Talk: Unlimited mobile to mobile, night calling and weekends starting at 7 p.m., nationwide long distance and no roaming charges

[rgreen4]

Relative AT&T plans have nothing to do with the topic at hand. Relative iPhones and the like and dislike have nothing to do with the topic at hand. The topic at hand is about the Palm Pre and whether it has or has not "fizzled".
Stay on topic or start another discussion about the iPhone.

[rfceo]

It has not fizzled they do not have them to sell. They are selling as fast as they come in.



On a conference call with analysts on June 25, Palm CEO Jon Rubinstein said the Pre, released earlier this month, “is by far the best product we’ve ever launched,” and said the product is in minor backorder as demand exceeded supply. “There’s been a short wait for product. We’re working as quickly as possible to catch up with demand,” he said.

Bob Brust, CFO of Sprint revealed during a webcast investor conference about Palm Pre supply, "We still have a backlog of subscribers but it's not unmanageable and we get shipments every week ... We'll be short for a while but we're catching up."

He sees that the Palm Pre is attracting both new customers and existing Sprint subscribers.

He said that Sprint had not seen a change in Palm Pre sales since Apple's iPhone 3G S went on sale Friday, tailed sales figures for the Pre when it reports second quarter earnings next month.

The next shipment of Palm Pre smartphones is due in July 8 at Best Buy. Buying a Palm Pre at Best Buy means you don't have to wait for a rebate. Some Best Buy stores are requiring customers who want a Palm Pre held for them to give a $50 deposit in the form of a Best Buy gift card for to be on the pre-order list and be guaranteed a Palm Pre the card can be used for the Palm Pre or anything else in the store.

We previously reported that a good way to get a Palm Pre is to be on the waiting list at your local Sprint Store.

[achristie]

1MacGeek:

Thanks again for the ongoing entertainment! What's so funny about what you write is not the content, but the fact that you actually expect anyone to believe what you write when it is so excrutiatingly transparent. We all bow to the highly successful businessman who spends most of his time on message boards trying to convince everyone that his beloved iPhone is the best thing ever invented and that the Palm Pre is headed for the smart phone graveyard.

iPhone overheating?? http://forums.pcworl.../59680?tstart=0

It must be a failure just like the Pre, eh? Nah! Couldn't be true!

http://www.brighthan...15382&news=PalmPreSprint

6.5 Million Pres sold?... 7.7 Million Pres sold? I'm sure Mr. 1MacGeek has a perfect explanation as to why this simply cannot happen and we all know that he is smarter than anyone else in the universe <insert a heafty dose of sarcasm here>!

[achristie]

http://features.csmo...with-open-arms/

Now we'll start seeing the real marketing coming out. Sorry, but THIS is SMART marketing! Will it work? Only time will tell. I'm sure 1MacGeek and kittyKat will have all kinds of twisted reasons why it can never work, and as we all know, they're smarter than anyone.... just ask 'em, they'll tell you.

But for all of you who said that Sprint/Palm had lousy marketing, you were't patient enough.

[1MacGeek]

achristie said:

Now we'll start seeing the real marketing coming out. Sorry, but THIS is SMART marketing!

No, THIS is smart marketing :

http://www.apple.com...vailability.php

It makes you wonder why Palm won't tell you anything concrete about the Pre. Well, at least it makes rational people wonder. I am wondering right now if Palm will follow Apple's lead and tell us where the Pre is and isn't, or if they will keep quiet. My bet is they will keep quiet because the Pre isn't selling as Palm would have us believe.

[qingwa]

I don't think personal attacks while debating the merits of a smartphone platform is the ideal way to discuss things.

You're not going to convince people with personal attacks but just make yourself look foolish.

Just my opinion.