[rgreen4]

1MacGeek said:

I am sorry, but there is just so much ignorance and misinformation I can can stand at one time, and this doozy rang the bell.

If you knew squat about SEC rules, you would know that a CEO is NOT required to inform anyone, not the board, not the public, about his/her medical condition. Any lawyer who sues Apple on this basis will very quickly find themselves up on sanctions, and deservedly so.

While you are correct in that the SEC rules do not specifically require information on the health of the CEO, what they actually require is that ANY material fact that may affect the future earnings of the company or the financial health of the company MUST be revealed. In the case of Apple, the health and physical well being of Steve Jobs can be argued to affect both.

[1MacGeek]

rgreen4 said:

While you are correct in that the SEC rules do not specifically
require information on the health of the CEO, what they actually
require is that ANY material fact that may affect the future
earnings of the company or the financial health of the company
MUST be revealed. In the case of Apple, the health and physical
well being of Steve Jobs can be argued to affect both.

Really, people - this is getting silly. It's like you have never heard of HIPAA, or anything.

Sorry, but Federal HIPAA laws trump SEC rules. Medical information cannot be revealed without the say-so of the patient, and that includes big-shot CEOs.

Were this not to be the case, people would be sitting in jail right now after a rumored SEC investigation of Apple back in January. People are not sitting in jail because the SEC dropped the matter - they knew they would be running afoul of HIPAA. Period. End of Story. Full Stop.

And if you know anything about the SEC they never just drop an investigation unless it's twenty kinds of stupid to pursue the matter.

Oh, and the Pre has still fizzled.

[davoaxiom]

So you are saying that a "leaked Memo" AT&T posted to an Apple based web site is a reliable source? Come on.

Law suits how about this one:

Shareholders of Apple Computer have filed a new derivative suit against
company executives and directors, marking the third such suit since
Apple in late June said it had discovered several irregularities
related to stock option grants.
The latest suit, filed in the United States District Court for the
Northern District of California, arrives just as the Mac and iPod maker
announced it has uncovered more irregularities than it had previously
suspected.
In the complaint, shareholders allege that the defendants breached
their fiduciary duties and colluded with one another to: improperly
backdate grants of Apple stock options, improperly record and account
for the backdated stock options in violation of GAAP, and improperly
take tax deductions based on the backdated stock options in violation
of the Tax Code.
The complaint also charges the defendants with producing and
disseminating to shareholders false financial statements and other SEC
filings that improperly recorded and accounted for the backdated option
grants thereby concealing the improper backdating of stock options.
In a statement in late June, Apple announced an internal probe related
to the issuance of certain stock option grants made between 1997 and
2001. On Friday, the company issued an updated statement, saying it had
discovered additional evidence of irregularities and would likely need
to restate its historical financial statements.
Hmmm. Apple falsified statements, cheated stockholds, that sounds like we should just take them at their word on everything right? Oh wait this was in the past and they wouldn't do that now. Right?
You posted a link to a video on CS's site that pretty much is a draw. They really don't state anything one way or another except in the title. In fact they state the price difference between AT&T and Sprint. That video could go either way. Not clean cut sorry.

As far as QC issues it is a small amount of the over all users. However everyone that has had an issue seems to have gotten a complete replacemnt. I will admit most of them had to wait for the replacement due to stock issues but as I staed before Apple has already said they are looking at having the same supply problems very soon.

I think you will find that a lot of users, including myself have contacted Palm with ideas on improving the phone. Also there is a growing group Developers that have already hacked the root and are building on it. This has for the most part been incuraged by Palm, who has only issed a warning about teethering. WebOS has already had 4 updates. There will be added features like flash by October and Video by the end of the year. At this point there is no where to go but up. Face it Apple is so dug into controling everything that it will only slow future developements down. I know you are going to bring up app but the lastest TomTom fees would piss me off if I was an iPhone user. Also to bring even bigger profits, Apple is moving on to subscription apps. Have fun with that. Oh wait your an AT&T customer so you are already trained to be nickeled and dimed to death but you have the iPhone.

I don't remember ever hearing Palm say that the Pre was a iPhone killer. Maybe Sprint did but Palm didn't. The thing is that it is the best device to come out since the iPhone and let's face it Palm listened to iPhone users, Google users and Blackberry users and came up with a completely new OS and what I think is a better UI than iPhone or Blackberry. This maybe the reason that AT&T is now pushing for the mobile industry to ban new OS releases. Now iPhone is great and all but you have to wonder if Palm developed the Pre if the 3gs would have been as fast as it is, have search, a better camera, MMS, copy and paste or video. Palm did put some fear into Apple and AT&T or you wouldn't have seen the price reduction or new features. I might add you still don't have MMS. I got a Pre because I hate Apple, hate their products and hate iTunes. I think they are evil and have become the Walmart of the media file industry. I also hate AT&T and their poor coverage. The thing that Sprint got right is that they lost customers not because of bad coverage or service but because of their lack luster phones. AT&T gained a market share because of the iPhone cause everyone and I mean everyone, I know that is on ATT has had both issues with coverage and customer service and have paid through the nose for it. The stupidest thing Sprint ever did was buy Nextel. I'm not sure there is any kind of numbers out there but I'm guessing that a majority of the users they lost came from Nextel. Sure it helped Sprint on network but Nextel phones suck and other than those that work in the construction business and shipping business, who uses dirrect talk?

That all said I went with a Pre because I now have most of my contacts business and personal in one place. I know spend less time on my lap or jumping from phone to computer. When they add Yahoo, MSN and SkyPe everything will be there. You just can't get that with an iPhone. Also something you will never have with an iPhone is true multi-tasking or the flow from phone call to IM to e-mail to text messaging. It would mean a completely new OS, UI and hardware config for the iPhone and I doubt we will be seeing that anytime soon.

As I stated before on this number game, Blackberry is beating the tar out of the iPhone. Look it up, the iPhone only has about a 2% market share of all smartphones. Who knows they maybe up to 4% after the 3Gs but the fact remains that Blackberry is sitting at 40%. What will be interesting is where that is at in 6 months when the Pre is released world wide and the new Google phones it the market as those first generation iPhone users start to see what their friends are doing on other phones. A big question will be what keeps them, will it be new features, love of their phone, value or will it be the idea of losing their investment in Apps?

[1MacGeek]

davoaxiom said:

> So you are saying that a "leaked Memo" AT&T posted to an Apple based web site is a reliable source? Come on.

Yes. It is the M.O. of Apple recently. There is nobody - repeat : nobody - better at a whisper campaign than Apple. And there are far too many fanboy websites willing and able to be useful idiots for Apple.

davoaxiom said:

Shareholders of Apple Computer have filed a new derivative suit against
company executives and directors, marking the third such suit since
Apple in late June said it had discovered several irregularities
related to stock option grants.

Wow. Talk about your weak tea. Every shareholder suit has either been dismissed, or settled for a paltry amount - like $14 million. The problem is the shareholders have been hard-pressed to prove loss. The stock went up during the time they were allegedly harmed. And it's really, really tough to prove harm if you made a boatload of money.

Not to mention, this is really, really old news.

davoaxiom said:

Hmmm. Apple falsified statements, cheated stockholds, that sounds like we
should just take them at their word on everything right? Oh wait this was in the
past and they wouldn't do that now. Right?

You got it, Sparky. I note you did not mention the people in trouble for the backdating are no longer employed by Apple. Or the stockholders made out like bandits during the time they were allegedly harmed.

davoaxiom said:

As far as QC issues it is a small amount of the over all users. However everyone
that has had an issue seems to have gotten a complete replacemnt. I will admit
most of them had to wait for the replacement due to stock issues but as I staed
before Apple has already said they are looking at having the same supply problems very soon.

But for completely different reasons - Apple literally cannot have them built any faster, and Palm can't afford to have them built. That is a huge difference.

davoaxiom said:

I think you will find that a lot of users, including myself have contacted
Palm with ideas on improving the phone. Also there is a growing group
Developers that have already hacked the root and are building on it.
This has for the most part been incuraged by Palm, who has only issed
a warning about teethering.

And you make the same error again - there is a world of difference between allowing something to happen, and giving it your full blessing. Palm has been rather tepid with that blessing, which makes me think there are going to be some very shocked developers when the SDK is released, if it ever is.

WebOS has already had 4 updates. There will be added features like flash
by October and Video by the end of the year. At this point there is no where
to go but up.

Again, wrong. There is one place to go : bankrupt. There are lot of people on this discussion who don't understand that simple fact - Palm only has enough cash to last until December, then they go bankrupt. The only thing which can prevent this from happening is someone to step out of the shadows and give Palm a half-billion dollars to give them enough time to see if the Pre will save the company, or not.

If that does not happen, the Pre is not selling at a pace that allows Palm to continue operations. They will either go out of business or be purchased by another company.

Face it Apple is so dug into controling everything that it will only slow future
developements down.

Again with the wrong. Apple adds more applications to the App Store every day than Palm has available for the Pre in sum toto.

I know you are going to bring up app but the lastest TomTom fees would
piss me off if I was an iPhone user.

I am an iPhone user and they don't bother me in the least. I simply don't use that service. I don't buy subscriptions to software, I purchase a license to use software. One time. No ongoing costs.

Also to bring even bigger profits, Apple is moving on to subscription apps.
Have fun with that. Oh wait your an AT&T customer so you are already
trained to be nickeled and dimed to death but you have the iPhone.

Again with the wrong. I pay less than I would for the Pre. I pay less than the average Joe on the street with an iPhone.

I don't remember ever hearing Palm say that the Pre was a iPhone killer.

MEGA-WRONG. You haven't been paying attention. The links to the MSM stories have been posted, and that is EXACTLY what Palm claimed. And as recently as May that idiot investor from Palm was shooting his mouth off about all the iPhone contracts expiring and not one person using an iPhone the next day.

EPIC FAIL. Didn't happen.

The thing is that it is the best device to come out since the iPhone and let's
face it Palm listened to iPhone users, Google users and Blackberry users
and came up with a completely new OS and what I think is a better UI than
iPhone or Blackberry.

EPIC FAIL, part two.. You may think it, but people who design this stuff for a living sure aren't.

Now iPhone is great and all but you have to wonder if Palm developed the Pre
if the 3gs would have been as fast as it is, have search, a better camera, MMS,
copy and paste or video.

Did the iPod get better without any serious competition? Yes, it did. Apple dominates market, and yet the innovation continues. Strictly from a competition-pressure perspective, Apple has no reason to dump even one dollar into R & D, yet they do. Why do you think that is?

Palm did put some fear into Apple and AT&T or you wouldn't have seen the
price reduction or new features. I might add you still don't have MMS.

Why would Apple fear a company teetering on the edge of oblivion? As we have seen, the iPhone is setting sales records by beating out the only competition it has : the old iPhone. Apple doesn't waste one minute of thought on how to beat the Pre because they already have. Even the most conservative numbers show Apple outselling the Pre 15 :1. Believe me, the only thing Apple is thinking about is the Pre driving more sales to the iPhone.

I got a Pre because I hate Apple, hate
their products and hate iTunes. I think they are evil and have become the
Walmart of the media file industry. I also hate AT&T and their poor coverage.

I would like to know where this poor coverage is - I hear about it, but I have never experienced it. Even in downtown Chicago I have never had less than four bars, or dropped a call. And I know it wasn't just the off-chance that I had a perfect iPhone, because that one broke and I now have a different one, but the same performance.

The thing that Sprint got right is that they lost customers not because of bad
coverage or service but because of their lack luster phones.

No, as a former Sprint customer I can state without a doubt it was bad coverage. What you complain about with AT&T is my experience with Sprint.

That all said I went with a Pre because I now have most of my contacts
business and personal in one place. I know spend less time on my lap or
jumping from phone to computer. When they add Yahoo, MSN and SkyPe
everything will be there. You just can't get that with an iPhone.

What are you talking about? I have Skype on my iPhone, and Yahoo! has a client for the iPhone. There are third-party apps for MSN, though God knows why anyone would want to use it.

Also something you will never have with an iPhone is true multi-tasking
or the flow from phone call to IM to e-mail to text messaging. It would
mean a completely new OS, UI and hardware config for the iPhone
and I doubt we will be seeing that anytime soon.

You are absolutely right that we won't be seeing that anytime soon - because it has been here since the 3G was introduced. The EDGE-based iPhones couldn't do data and voice at the same time, but since the 3G has been out there hasn't been a problem with sending a text message while on a phone call.

You're right - can't do multitasking on an iPhone at all. Except for making a phone call, surfing the web, and IM'ing all at the same time.

As I stated before on this number game, Blackberry is beating the tar
out of the iPhone. Look it up, the iPhone only has about a 2% market
share of all smartphones.

EPIC FAIL. AGAIN.

Apple owns two percent of the total cell phone market, and 10.8% of the "smartphone" market. It actually falls like this :

Nokia - 41.2%
RIM - 19.9%
Apple - 10.8%
Everyone else - 28.1%

Where is Palm in that "everyone else". Who knows? I haven't been able to track down any hard-and-fast numbers (SHOCK!), but the last time Palm talked about it they were claiming 13.4%. In 2008. A lot has changed since then, and the only thing certain among analysts is Palm market share since then dropping like a stone in water.

Who knows they maybe up to 4% after the 3Gs but the fact remains that
Blackberry is sitting at 40%.

STILL EPIC FAIL. RIM is sitting at 20%, Nokia at 40%.

What will be interesting is where that is at in 6 months when the Pre is released
world wide and the new Google phones it the market as those first generation
iPhone users start to see what their friends are doing on other phones.

Palm is nearly bankrupt - how will they finance an international roll-out? You claim - NOT ME - that Palm can't keep up with demand here in America. If that is so, and for the sake of argument I concede it is, then where do you think Palm will come up with the manufacturing resources to avoid a complete disaster in the rest of the world?

Palm is out of time, and it is out of resources. It has but six months before it utterly consumes the cash it has on hand. The loss for the most recent quarter DOUBLED. The income FELL by 70%. Because of accounting laws Palm cannot recognize Pre income save at a pace of 1/24th at a time. Even if Palm sold three million Pres in one day, it would still take TWO YEARS to fully recognize that income. That means on the books it would appear that Palm is only selling 125,000 Pres per month.

THAT IS NOT A PACE OF SALES WHICH WILL KEEP PALM FROM BANKRUPTCY

As far as what the first gen iPhone users will do - we already know. They bought 3GSs.

A big question will be what keeps them, will it be new features, love of their phone,
value or will it be the idea of losing their investment in Apps?

Or all of the above...
Message was edited by: smax013 - no personal attacks please

[TechieXP]

At least w/Sprint the navigation app can be used with the everything plan. No additional cost. Why pay $120 for something that you aren't going to use that often...unless you get lost everywhere you go. When I was on Sprint, I use the navigation app 3 times in a whole year.

[novice14]

This IPhone is cool, but the Palm Pre is cooler. I like the IPhone I just like the Palm Pre more. You do NOT have to hate one to like the other.
Why are people so vehement in the support of one over the other. Remember "The only difference between men and boys is the size of there toys"

[smax013]

TechieXP said:

At least w/Sprint the navigation app can be used with the everything plan. No additional cost. Why pay $120 for something that you aren't going to use that often...unless you get lost everywhere you go. When I was on Sprint, I use the navigation app 3 times in a whole year.

But, then why would I want to pay for the everything plan just to get navigation when I can get a $60 to $70 a monthly plan for what I need call and data wise. That would be like paying WAY more than $120 a year to get navigation.

[rfceo]

If you are going to pay to have a smart phone then why limit what it is capable of doing?

Sprints everything plan for $69. Gives you voice, data, texting/messaging, turn by turn GPS navigation, sprint TV, sprint music and more.

Maybe they should come out with a striped down plan with just voice and data. Or maybe they should just stick with the winning plans that they have.

I do not think I have heard any current sprint customers complaining. I have been with sprint for 8 plus years and have had very good service. Even at a cabin in the mountains of TN I had service where at&t users had to go outside to find (and I mean wandering around) a signal.

So to each his own. You like at&t fine, you like iPhone fine. I will stick with Sprint who has provided excellent service and support.

[davoaxiom]

See I use the nav for gas prices and when I travel. Google maps works well too but the turn by is so easy when you just blue tooth it to the car stereo. I really use it a lot more than I thought I would.

As far as price goes, I'm using everything I pay for and rely on most of it. Especailly the unlimited text. In fact I added a line when I upgraded and I'm paying less then I was before the upgrade.

[1MacGeek]

davoaxiom said:

As far as price goes, I'm using everything I pay for and rely on most of it.
Especailly the unlimited text. In fact I added a line when I upgraded and
I'm paying less then I was before the upgrade.

At last we have the definitive article on living with a Pre,
and the cost of doing it the Pre way :

"There is one diversion on the Pre that's really great, but you'll definitely want to be plugged in while you use it: Sprint TV. The live TV streaming to the device works quite well, and I got a huge kick out of watching ABC News and some reality TV shows on my phone. But I estimate (I haven't formally tested) that I could stream about 30 minutes of TV to the Pre before completely nuking the battery."

30 minutes? That's it?

One half-hour sit-com and then you have a useless paperweight. The bottom line is the Pre battery life just absolutely sucks, but that is the price to be paid for cramming a way-too-powerful processor in a case with way-too-little battery.

Palm Pre : Epic Fail since 2009.

[jabberwolf]

Dear paid Apple employee 1MacGeek,

You seriously need to READ all of the articles you post.
Please read carefully the last sentence of the paragraph you quoted.
That is all.

Also, Sprint's "streaming" is a constant connection (3GPP RTSP Streaming protocol) and not a downloaded cache or even a flash stream.
These are different protocols and, I agree, are a convenience and not something to rely on.

But in saying that, its an option not even available for the iphone yet alone flash.

Nice try, but again= not really!

[1MacGeek]

jabberwolf said:

You seriously need to READ all of the articles you post.

So do you. Seriously.

jabberwolf said:

Please read carefully the last sentence of the paragraph you quoted.

I am certain there is a point here somewhere, but I can't find it. I made no claims, only copied what the author claimed. And so what if the battery life is 35 or 40 minutes? The point is that after not very much time the Pre becomes useless if you use it even as a portable TV.

jabberwolf said:

Also, Sprint's "streaming" is a constant connection (3GPP RTSP Streaming protocol)
and not a downloaded cache or even a flash stream.

And how does this affect the accuracy of the article in the least? Is Sprint TV not a service one will use on the Pre?

jabberwolf said:

But in saying that, its an option not even available for the iphone yet alone flash.

Unfortunately, we are not talking about the iPhone but we are talking about the abysmal battery performance of the Pre. And after all, the people around here have been talking up how much the Pre can do. I have merely pointed out the Pre cannot do them for very long. Nothing you have said disputes that assertion in the least.

Therefore, I don't have to "try again", as you haven't countered with any evidence which gives lie to what was said the first time.

The fact of the matter is the Pre has fizzled, and is continuing to fizzle. Here is an example. The whole "silence" on the sales thing is starting to backfire on Palm AND Sprint. And it was as easy to discover as picking up a phone and calling Sprint stores.

And nothing you can say can alter that fact. But it is so amusing when you try, so do carry on !

[smax013]

rfceo said:

If you are going to pay to have a smart phone then why limit what it is capable of doing?


Sprints everything plan for $69. Gives you voice, data, texting/messaging, turn by turn GPS navigation, sprint TV, sprint music and more.

I do not know what plan you are talking about, but when I go to the Sprint website, the "Simply Everything" plan is $100 (actually, $99.99...but what is a penny among friends).

For less that $70 a month (including taxes and fees), I get 750 anytime minutes, unlimited night and weekends starting at 8 pm, and unlimited data for my Treo. I don't need Sprint's GPS as I have my own TomTom GPS Bluetooth device that works with my phone. I do not use Sprint TV (but get some of the channels anyway) or Sprint Music. I do not come close to using my 750 minutes (a grandfathered special plan that I got for being a good customer), so why would I need unlimited? So, why would I want to pay more than $30 more a month after taxes and fees for a bunch of stuff that I do not need.

My original point was that why pay for an unlimited plan when something less than unlimited might work.

[TechieXP]

You are so concerned about what iPhone can do, that you're mising the other points.
Hardware developers daid years ago, the batteries that come in phones simply aren't powerful enough to handle what todays phones do. Phones now are basically little computers and they need power. The problem is the size of teh battery. It is small. The best battery would be one that is the size of the back of the phone.

However, I use to be with Sprint and I to trie the Sprint TV. I don't find watching pre-recorded tv on a phone a useful feature. It is simply to slow even with the boost that Sprint gave to the data network. Which is the best amongst all carriers.

The reason why the iPhone battery lasts so long, is bec you can't do a damn thing with the phone. What sucks ore is ATT allows other phones to benefit more from their services than iPhone, yet you still have to pay for them even tho you can't use them.

You are so hype over a device. I don't understand why you think iPhone is just a masterpiece that God handed down too the earthling to fight over. Its a phone, please get over yourself. The only thing that is great about the iPod is its slick design. No more no less. I like the iPhone too, but you act like you are married to it and it is baring your children.

The Pre's OS is obviously a cpu intensive application that needs power. If teh power is that bad, then it seems best to use certain features when you have the phone plugged in. At least there is an option to buy a better battery or even carry a couple charged ones around. Your so amazing phone doesn't even have a user replacable battery. So what happens when it dies and your phone is no linger under warranty. At leats with usm as long as we remain with teh carrier they will replace the battery FREE. Does Apple offer that? No they don't and neither does ATT.

Every other phone has a long list of pluses while the iPhone does not. I find more people complaining about iPhone yet they keep buying the latest one HOPING that Apple will finally make it better. They haven't. Same old boring original stripped down version of OS X with features that you can't use, or really don't matter. Its a usic player with a phone feature...please get over yourself.

I beem reading your rants aand it is amazing how you can take any positives and make them a negative. That makes you a Devil and a troll. Its ok to like a device...I like all tech toys too. But just bec you don't like soething doesn't mean its bad. I can list at least 30 distinct problems that Apple still needs to fix with the iPhone. 1/2 of which are common across the board and the reast are problems that are hit or miss.

The Pre has just came out...it barelt been a month. You haven't even given it a chance. All the problems Palm is having...Apple is still having on soe level and this is phone 3....actually phone 1 with basic upgrades. Iphone is Apple with no taste and no original ideas as they tried to say about MSFT. They can't even improve their own phone.

[1MacGeek]

TechieXP said:

You are so concerned about what iPhone can do, that you're mising the other points.

It's so easy to miss, Techie, because you do not have firm command of the English language. Reading what you write is the literary equivalent of fingernails being dragged across the chalkboard. I have tried, but I just am not strong enough to do so.

[davoaxiom]

I've personally watched 2 hours of the sprint TV and still was at about 57%. Of course this was after the last 3 updates and I turned off the wifi and bluetooth. Just like the 4 other devices I've used sprint TV on it depends on the signal strength. I don't care what device you are using if you are using multi apps that rely on connections, you will find battery drain. If you have a poor signal it will eat battery. Oh wait I forgot you are used to Apple and AT&T that would rather save face by not allowing their users to do something then address the fact that their products and services are sadly limited. How about we talk about the fact that, I can upgrade my battery or swap the battery on my pre. What do you do with the iPhone? Can you upgrade the battery? Can you swap it? No but then you don't get the option to run multi-app that may drain the batter in the first place. Do you really understand how stupid it is to keep bring up battery life when the iPhone is in fact more limited and seems to be having real heat issues.

You need to stop digging up articles from 2 weeks ago that there are other articles that state the other way. The rummor mill on the EOS or pixie is that it is going to come out on Verizon, AT&T and T-Mobile. Palm never stated the device was going into production in the first place. The photo is from some sources and there maybe some references to it or another device in the root of the WebOS. Maybe if you would have taken the time to research the device you would have know this.

[TechieXP]

I think what people need to learn about cellphones, especially ones with lots of hardware based features, that all those feayures need power. You need to use the phone like you use a laptop. To get the maximum from a power source that depleats very fast, you need to turn off feeatures you don't need.

Even when a chip is not being used, it uses poer. Like a light, the only way it use no power is to turn it off. Features like WIFI and Bluetooth especially drain power. The antennae in your phone is powered, that is how it picks up a signal. Some phones actually disconnect from the network when the battery is very low, so as to save energy in case you need to make a 911 call.

Cameras, video playback and more drain power Video playback is cpu intensive on a phone as it is on a pc. The CPU may not be as powerful, but it is the chip that runs everything.

No phone is impervious to quick drainage...not even iPhone. Apple says 5 hours of talktime. You need to read the fine print to see how to get those 5hours. Thsi is based on having the screen shutdown within 10 secs, call that use WIFI tax teh batter more than standard calls on the cell network, tuen off features you don't need at the time and keep the phone cool. Hot chips work harder and drain more energy....laptops are proof of that...a cellphone is no different.

I see so many bashing Pre for shorten battery life...at least Pre has an alternative. You can have more than one battery..or purchase a longer lasting one. Distinct advantages over iPhone. The WebOS also has several advanatges over OSX on iPhone. However all that multi-yasking comes at a price. Its no different then a laptop. The more you are doing, the shorter teh batter life. A laptop will get as much as 6 hours on a full charge. Some can get a bit more...however its based on turning off features you don't need...lowing the brightness on the screen...using the cpu at a lower speed and not using graphic intensive appz. The bigger the chip the more poer it needs to run...CPU and GPU are always the biggest....a screen no matter how small it is...is drain power in 2 ways...one for brightness and the other to actually display the picture....graphics that move require more power than stuff that sits still. Which is why phones die faster if you game.

A phone wasn't designed to game or play videos and music and etc...all of that comes at a cost. Anyone who buys a Smartphone and complain about battery life being an issue is simply crazy to begin with. I agree it should last longer than a couple hours....but imagine how far you can drive on a bettry in a car...most cars with no gas will run about 30 miles on a charged battery...and a car battery is 1000's of times bigger...bt look how heavy a car is that it needs to move. Same for your phone. If you want great battery life...get a cheap phone like a Razr or a phone that has no features beyond calling. If you get a multimedia based phone and you get bad battery life...suck it up and deal with it. You bought the phone, ur stuck with it after the initial 30 days.

[rgreen4]

No personal attacks. If you don't care for some one's literary style, then just skip the post.

[davoaxiom]

Here you go http://finance.yahoo...8.html?x=0&.v=1
bq. "The PC World tests took place in March and April this year in 13 major markets across the country, including Boston, Baltimore, New York, Orlando, Denver, Chicago, San Francisco, New Orleans, Phoenix, Seattle, Portland, San Diego and San Jose. In each location, testers measured download speed, upload speed and reliability. In every market, Sprint bested AT&T for reliability. And, overall, Sprint proved more reliable over Verizon with a strong connection 90.5 percent of the time, according to the results. In Boston, Denver and Seattle, Sprint earned perfect scores – 100 percent reliable in connection tests."
My sis had no signal or low signal at The Shedd, Field, Navy Pier, Boys Town/Northside and the Wirgley Ville area. I had 4 to 5 bars everywhere but the sub-basement at the Shedd but I don't anything could get a signal down there. She even dropped a call on I-55. It was also the same 3 years ago in Orlando. At WDW and Sea World. I couldn't get her on the phone a a majority of the time due to no signal and had to resort to sending her a text and waiting until she got signal again. Also I have anumber of friends that are either in a band or work in the live music industry. Most travel world wide. Though they gets great service in Europe, if they is in the US, I would say 40% of the time you go to voice mail cause they have no signal. Most of them are waiting for the contract to be up on their first iPhone so they can go to Sprint, Verizon, or T-Mobile. The only ones I've talked to that are staying are unwilling to give up the investment they have made in Apps.

Face it AT&T sucks, costs too much and wouldn't have the iPhone if Verizon hadn't passed and AT&T wouldn't have put up the money to develope the thing. Sure MacGeek we've heard all about your cheap plan with data and voice but this is the Modern World, the text message use overtook voice calls awhile ago. Time to get with the times grandpa.

[Geiger]

I told you so! Obviously the Palm Pre hasn't fizzled.

Interestingly, in places like the UK, surveys show that the phone is going to be the number one smart phone (http://www.precentral.net/study-pres-uk-debut-outshine-original-iphones). 27% of everyone surveyed said that they want to buy it, compared to 17% that wanted to by the iPhone.