[PwrBuk4Eva]

Remember there are 2 separate companies being talked about here. Sprint and Palm, and a success for one does not necessarily equal a success for the other. Both companies are trying to get an increase. Palm by the number of units it sells and sprint by the number of customers it has paying for it's services every month. Clearly Palm has seen an increases, the last numbers I saw had Pre sales at over 100,000. Way to go Palm. Problem for Sprint, however, is that the vast majority of these were sold to current Sprint customers. There is a finite number of mobile phone users out there, and if you are not increasing your percentage of that number, it's never a good thing. As any business owner will tell you, fighting just to keep the customers you have is never an enviable position.

[1MacGeek]

swagg said:

hey go to my profile and go read all my post, and after doing so, you will see that
i could care less about productivity or numbers, or sales, or whatever..
i prolly wont have the pre for 2 years b4 i get another phone, lol cause i get to
upgrade every year ;), and i know palm will be around for at least that long,
so im not worried about it at all...

How can you possibly "know" Palm will be around that long? Wall Street analysts sure don't know - that is precisely the reason they are asking the question. Only a few days sales for the Pre are going on this quarter's results for Palm, so the numbers are only going to be stunning in how bad they are. The most recent numbers (reported in February) showed nearly $100 million in loss for net income.

swagg said:

and if you really think that palm isnt going to be able to stay alive after this
release and the release of newer phones coming out, then you are in need
of some serious help...

Well, that would be me and the rest of Wall Street. And we can't all be wrong, now can we? As I predicted over the weekend, Palm stock is already racing for the basement today. It's down five percent already, and the trading day is young.

You can say all you want, but you are just flat-out wrong about where Pre and Palm are heading. Palm is heading out of business because they bet the company on sales that matched Apple and it didn't happen. Nothing you have to say will ever change that fact.

Quote

i just want the phone in my hand, and i can tell you, that when i do have it
in my hands, you will see my review only once, and it will be the last time
you hear from me on this horrible discussion board because ill have what
i want, and you will still be here with your sync cord as a whip and itunes
as your sheild trying to put a product down, just to get your rocks off.
but in the end, i will be a happy palm user. and trust me, i wont dog
you for switching to a pre, when or if you ever get your hands on one...

Why on earth would I invest a dime in a dead company or dead product? All I hear from everyone who says I am wrong is emotion and "feelings", and not one of you have stepped up with a concrete reason Palm will even be around in December, let alone in 2010. You cannot point to investments, loans, or any other money flowing into Palm that will allow it to keep running until this mythical Pre "gold rush" hits.

It's not going to happen.

Palm doesn't have the money to make it happen. Nothing you whine about will change that basic fact. People think all the Pre needs is a good, solid ad campaign to make those Apple people eat crow. And while that MAY be true, Palm doesn't have the money to make it happen. Palm can either spend money to make more Pres or they can have an ad campaign, but Palm does not have the money for both.

And even if Palm ran an ad campaign that caused them to sell 1.2 million Pres in a weekend, it STILL wouldn't save the company because it would be accrued on the books one month at a time, or in 1/24th increments. Palm is starved for cash right now, and getting a cash infusion that is 1/24th of what it needs wouldn't do anything for the company NOW.

And in the time it took me to write this post, PALM is down another percent - making a 6% decline on the day. But that's ok because I don't have any clue as to what I am talking about, and I didn't call it this weekend... oh, wait. Yes I did.

[swagg]

[quote name='1MacGeek']
> [quote name='swagg']
> hey go to my profile and go read all my post, and after doing so, you will see that
> i could care less about productivity or numbers, or sales, or whatever..
> i prolly wont have the pre for 2 years b4 i get another phone, lol cause i get to
> upgrade every year ;), and i know palm will be around for at least that long,
> so im not worried about it at all...

How can you possibly "know" Palm will be around that long? Wall Street analysts sure don't know - that is precisely the reason they are asking the question. Only a few days sales for the Pre are going on this quarter's results for Palm, so the numbers are only going to be stunning in how bad they are. The most recent numbers (reported in February) showed nearly $100 million in loss for net income.

>

swagg said:

> and if you really think that palm isnt going to be able to stay alive after this
> release and the release of newer phones coming out, then you are in need
> of some serious help...

Well, that would be me and the rest of Wall Street. And we can't all be wrong, now can we? As I predicted over the weekend, Palm stock is already racing for the basement today. It's down five percent already, and the trading day is young.

You can say all you want, but you are just flat-out wrong about where Pre and Palm are heading. Palm is heading out of business because they bet the company on sales that matched Apple and it didn't happen. Nothing you have to say will ever change that fact.

> i just want the phone in my hand, and i can tell you, that when i do have it
> in my hands, you will see my review only once, and it will be the last time
> you hear from me on this horrible discussion board because ill have what
> i want, and you will still be here with your sync cord as a whip and itunes
> as your sheild trying to put a product down, just to get your rocks off.
> but in the end, i will be a happy palm user. and trust me, i wont dog
> you for switching to a pre, when or if you ever get your hands on one...

Why on earth would I invest a dime in a dead company or dead product? All I hear from everyone who says I am wrong is emotion and "feelings", and not one of you have stepped up with a concrete reason Palm will even be around in December, let alone in 2010. You cannot point to investments, loans, or any other money flowing into Palm that will allow it to keep running until this mythical Pre "gold rush" hits.

It's not going to happen.

Palm doesn't have the money to make it happen. Nothing you whine about will change that basic fact. People think all the Pre needs is a good, solid ad campaign to make those Apple people eat crow. And while that MAY be true, Palm doesn't have the money to make it happen. Palm can either spend money to make more Pres or they can have an ad campaign, but Palm does not have the money for both.

And even if Palm ran an ad campaign that caused them to sell 1.2 million Pres in a weekend, it STILL wouldn't save the company because it would be accrued on the books one month at a time, or in 1/24th increments. Palm is starved for cash right now, and getting a cash infusion that is 1/24th of what it needs wouldn't do anything for the company NOW.

And in the time it took me to write this post, PALM is down another percent - making a 6% decline on the day. But that's ok because I don't have any clue as to what I am talking about, and I didn't call it this weekend... oh, wait. Yes I did.

lol well dont try to prove me wrong lol, youre going back to the numbers and sales, and like i said b4 i could care less about those numbers. because it will work for me and do what i want it to do. i have to worry about the money i make, and what i need to do with it, other than worrying about what palm and sprint are gonna do finacially.. in then end, palm doesnt have the fanbase as something like the iphone.. ipod came out long time ago, and it started to evolve and it turned into a phone, and with that huge fanbase, many got rid of their mp3 players and cell phone, and got the mix of the two... =SALES



palm on the other hand had a different fan base, of which their OS was crap along with some of their products, so i feel like it will take time, and with them making new devices and going over to different carrriers, i dont have any fear that things wont pick back up with them. how can you tell me that it wont? and saying it went down 5-6%, means nothing to me.. what was it ave b4 launch and what is it now? and your telling me apple stock doesnt fluctuate?



anyways, like i said, i dont care if i was the only person sold a palm pre, i dont care if you ever get to see or use one, and i dont care about any other person that has the palm pre, i just want one of my own..

[1MacGeek]

swagg said:

lol well dont try to prove me wrong lol, youre going back to the numbers and sales,
and like i said b4 i could care less about those numbers. because it will work for
me and do what i want it to do.

Not to put too fine a point on it - if you don't care about the numbers then you are a fool. A company has to be in business to honor warranties, and if Palm isn't going to be around and your Pre bricks because of overheating, then what will you do? Sprint won't let you out of the contract because your phone breaks, even if you are an employee.

swagg said:

> and saying it went down 5-6%, means nothing to me..
what was it ave b4 launch and what is it now? and your telling me apple stock doesnt fluctuate?

Palm pre-launch : 52 week high of $15.25. Now - $13.06. So far today, Palm lost $30 million in market cap. Which means they are now more than $100 million into a negative equity situation.

Of course Apple's stock fluctuates. The problem for Palm is that Apple has boatloads of cash to do pretty much whatever it wants, including driving Palm into the ground like a railroad spike.

swagg said:

anyways, like i said, i dont care if i was the only person sold a palm pre,
i dont care if you ever get to see or use one, and i dont care about any
other person that has the palm pre, i just want one of my own..

Well, you know what they say about fools and their money...

[achristie]

What does one day's stock performance have to do with anything?? If there's one thing you're good at, it's the speed at which you're able flush your credibility down the drain.

Have you noticed that the whole market is down today, including your beloved Apple? Oh, I already know what you're going to say... But Palm is down more on a percentage basis than Apple. Well son, here's a little lesson in volatility for you...
Apple's historic volatility (30 days) is 34. Palm's is 91.13, or 2.7 times Apple's volatility. Do the math. Apple is down about 2% today. 2% x 2.7 = 5.4%, pretty close to where Palm should be given the historic volatility. Yes, Palm is down a little more than that, but there's a lot more uncertainty with Palm and there will be for a long time to come.
Have you noticed that on broad market up days, that Palm is also up more on a percentage basis? Would I ever get on here and say, "yay! Palm is a huge success because the stock is up almost 3x as much as Apple on a percentage basis today!!" Only if I wanted to be made a mockery of! The ONLY reason I would point out Palm's up days on the stock market is to make the point that the down days mean NOTHING over the short term.

Palm is simply more volatile for OBVIOUS reasons. Todday's down day has NOTHING to do with ANYTHING, other than the markets are DOWN!

[rfceo]

Smart Phone Battle Rages

The number one tech stock in 2009 has been Sprint Nextel (NYSE: S ? Trading Report). The stock has risen an eye-popping 183.1% year-to-date. The company made a splash earlier this month with Palm (Nasdaq: PALM ? Trading Report) launching its Pre smart phone. Sprint Nextel is presently the exclusive carrier of the Pre. It has been estimated that between 90,000 and 100,000 Pres were sold during the phone?s first week on the market.

[jaason]

I am truly amazed how ultra defensive the Apple fanboys get when a competing product comes to market; it's borderline cult like.
I personally have a multitude of smartphones since I manage technology for a very large law firm. They include the iPhone 3G, BB Bold, HTC Touch Pro, and now the Palm Pre. Out of the four, the WebOS experience outdoes the competition in almost every single way. Although it may not be practical for large scale business use quite yet, the fact that Palm released an update to fix the EAS issue within a week of launch is remarkable. I'm assuming remote security policies are also in the works which will make this device a true contender for RIM. I hope the aforementioned holds true since I can't get users off my back clamoring for this device. Many of my colleagues have also informed me of the same excitement surrounding this phone in their organizations.
To the point of Apple Fanboys pointing out multiple issues with the hardware, it would seem they forget about the iPhone 3G launch. Terrible battery life, horrendous service coverage, and patches which masked the true problem. Given that the Pre is first gen, I would say they did far better then Apples 2nd attempt.

Obviously the fair thing is to compare the Pre to 3GS, but given the Pre's start out of the gate I can see the potential of Palm taking back a significant share of the business sector in the next 2 - 3 years. At the end of the day WebOS will push Apple/Rim/MS to take their OS's to the next level which is good for everyone.

[swagg]

[quote name='1MacGeek']
> [quote name='swagg']
> lol well dont try to prove me wrong lol, youre going back to the numbers and sales,
> and like i said b4 i could care less about those numbers. because it will work for
> me and do what i want it to do.

Not to put too fine a point on it - if you don't care about the numbers then you are a fool. A company has to be in business to honor warranties, and if Palm isn't going to be around and your Pre bricks because of overheating, then what will you do? Sprint won't let you out of the contract because your phone breaks, even if you are an employee.

> [quote name='swagg']> and saying it went down 5-6%, means nothing to me..
> what was it ave b4 launch and what is it now? and your telling me apple stock doesnt fluctuate?

Palm pre-launch : 52 week high of $15.25. Now - $13.06. So far today, Palm lost $30 million in market cap. Which means they are now more than $100 million into a negative equity situation.

Of course Apple's stock fluctuates. The problem for Palm is that Apple has boatloads of cash to do pretty much whatever it wants, including driving Palm into the ground like a railroad spike.

>

swagg said:

> anyways, like i said, i dont care if i was the only person sold a palm pre,
> i dont care if you ever get to see or use one, and i dont care about any
> other person that has the palm pre, i just want one of my own..

Well, you know what they say about fools and their money...

let it brick, lol i dont care, they will let me out of it, with a 0 month contract, ummm i think i could get out of it.. and who you calling a fool?? im 23 years old lol, i just want a cool phone, and with an automatic rebate, i make 200 bucks no problem, and to get a phone better than the iphone for that price, im not hurting... So WHY WOULD I care about the numbers? and if it does brick up ill just go get the new touch pro 2, and do what i want with my phone, where my old iphone couldnt. i dont want to make this into a comparison because this article is not one.. im just saying FTBS, get what you want and use it and love it.thats what im about to do, and anyone who dont like it can KMA lol..

[1MacGeek]

achristie said:

Have you noticed that the whole market is down today, including your beloved Apple?
Oh, I already know what you're going to say... But Palm is down more on a percentage
basis than Apple. Well son, here's a little lesson in volatility for you...

But Apple isn't trending down. Palm is. It's already off two bucks and change because analysts are starting to put it together that the Pre won't save Palm.

achristie said:

but there's a lot more uncertainty with Palm and there will be for a long time to come.

Why? If the Pre is the runaway hit people around here claim it is, the stock should be shooting up to the moon. Yet, the reality is it is in decline? Why?

Contrary to popular belief, stocks are not an indicator of past performance, but future viability. If the stock is going down - which is has since the launch - then the Street has judged there to be not as much potential as before the launch. Translation : Palm isn't delivering the goods, and probably can't.

achristie said:

Palm is simply more volatile for OBVIOUS reasons. Todday's down day has
NOTHING to do with ANYTHING, other than the markets are DOWN!

No, it has to do with Palm's lousy balance sheet, and the fact it faces significant future challenges it can't overcome.

[achristie]

Have you ever heard the saying, "buy on the rumor, sell on the news?" Palm is bound to come back down a bit. It's been bid up way too much because of all the hype. It my opinion, the stock has been bid up further than where it should be right now. Does that make it a bad phone? Nope! Does that mean it's going to fail? Nope. That just means there are a lot of amature investors out there like you. They buy when all the pros and institutional investors are selling, like after the launch of something that's been hyped for the last six months.

I've never claimed the Pre to be a "runaway hit". I won't make outrageous claims like you do. I wait to see the evidence. Maybe you're right, maybe it will fail, but you simply don't have solid facts to support that. You're pulling st out of your ass. All I've ever said is that it's a great device. I love mine.

The stock has not been going down since the release, btw. On June 5th, the day before the launch, Palm closed at $13.00. It has gone as high as $14.58 and is now at $12.98. OMG... a WHOLE TWO CENTS LOWER!!! EVERYONE RUN FOR THE HILLS!!! THE SKY IS FALLING! PALM IS GOING TO IMPLODE!!! Dude! That's called fluctuation.

Guess what, Palm has had a lousy balance sheet for about two years now. So going on your logic, if a lousy balance sheet is going to prevent the company from succeeding, why did the stock get bid up to where it is? Kinda shoots a hole in your theory that the stock price has anything to do with Palm's chances of success, doesn't it?

[rfceo]

From ZDNET
Here’s Sprint’s chance to take advantage of the public relations beating that AT&T is experiencing over its network quality. I can see the commercial now…
SPRINT: “Hello. I’m Sprint.”
AT&T: “Hello. I’m AT&T.”
SPRINT: “Wow, AT&T. People sure are picking on you lately over these iPhone service problems.”
AT&T: “Are they? I haven’t noticed. No one has called me on my iPhone to complain.”
SPRINT: “Really? No calls about that?”
AT&T: “Well, it’s hard to say. My signal goes in and out at home sometimes. And in the office. And in the car, too. I might have missed a call or two. But, you know, we’re working on…..”
(AT&T goes silent)
SPRINT: “AT&T? You OK? You there?”
(SILENCE)
SPRINT: “Ummm… AT&T? You still with us?”
(AT&T springs back to life.)
AT&T: “Hello. I’m AT&T.”
SPRINT: “Right. We’ve established that.”
AT&T: “Sorry. I must have faded out for a…”
(AT&T goes silent again)
SPRINT: “Wow. He seems to do that a lot. I wonder if iPhone users have noticed?”
Now’s your chance, Sprint.

[Biggkatt01]

Ok now don't evveryone go all off and get mad at me. The numbers have been released by Apple per CNN and CNBC Apple sales of the Iphone 3Gs beats its own mark and sells 1MILLION thats 1MILLION units in a 3 day span it breaks its own record and also per CNBC financial experts" This is just amazing for a smartphone to sell like this in let alone a recession when there are cheaper models out there, We were all wrong on this station we predicted probable 500,00 units or less Steve jobs have proven us wrong once again" end qoute. now lets go back to Sprint and Palms release I mean official company release of Palm Pre sales. oh I forgot there is still no company release. I wonder why.

[1MacGeek]

achristie said:

Have you ever heard the saying, "buy on the rumor, sell on the news?"

Yes. It's a very efficient way to go broke.

achristie said:

Palm is bound to come back down a bit. It's been bid up way too much because of all the hype.

Hype that Palm did nothing to reign in until it bit them in the butt. Actually, I would think this rises to the level of stock manipulation worthy of an SEC investigation. It's almost a classic pump 'n' dump.

achristie said:

>It my opinion, the stock has been bid up further than where it should be right now.

A LOT further than the balance sheet warrants.

achristie said:

Does that make it a bad phone? Nope! Does that mean it's going to fail? Nope.

Yes. If Palm fails the Pre necessarily goes with it as an asset of the company.

achristie said:

That just means there are a lot of amature investors out there like you.
They buy when all the pros and institutional investors are selling, like
after the launch of something that's been hyped for the last six months.

Would this be the same "professionals" who took companies - as an example - like Lee Enterprises and rode them from $34 to $0.30 without selling? I am amazed nobody went to jail for breech of fiduciary responsibilities over that one.

I've never claimed the Pre to be a "runaway hit". I won't make outrageous claims like you do.
I wait to see the evidence. Maybe you're right, maybe it will fail, but you simply don't have
solid facts to support that. You're pulling st out of your ass.
All I've ever said is that it's a great device. I love mine.

What more solid evidence is there than a balance sheet? I would love to know.

The stock has not been going down since the release, btw. On June 5th, the day before
the launch, Palm closed at $13.00. It has gone as high as $14.58 and is now at $12.98.
OMG... a WHOLE TWO CENTS LOWER!!! EVERYONE RUN FOR THE HILLS!!!
THE SKY IS FALLING! PALM IS GOING TO IMPLODE!!! Dude! That's called fluctuation.

Keep going... on the Eighth of June, where was it? Lower. The Ninth? Lower. Then what happened? Some company nobody ever heard of put out a BS release calling Palm and the Pre the second coming. The amateurs went nuts. Then, slowly, the Street found out it was BS, and what has happened every day since then? Lower.

Guess what, Palm has had a lousy balance sheet for about two years now.
So going on your logic, if a lousy balance sheet is going to prevent the company from
succeeding, why did the stock get bid up to where it is? Kinda shoots a hole in your
theory that the stock price has anything to do with Palm's chances of success, doesn't it?

What ever you are smoking, you really should stop it. It completely validates my "theory", which isn't mine by the way. Fools bid up the price based on a BS report that didn't deliver the true skinny on Palm. Once that was discounted, the reality set in and the price went back down. Every time the future looks rosy, the price of the stock will rise. It doesn't necessarily mean there is any truth to the "news", but fools will be parted from their money...

[rfceo]

Apple has been sending out apologetic e-mails to those of the over a million iPhone 3G S customers who were unfortunate enough to run into activation issues with their brand new gadget.It's unclear whether this was a problem with Apple's iTunes servers or AT&T's activation mechanism, but Apple has stepped up to the plate and is now offering all affected customers a $30 iTunes gift certificate to make amends.
OUCH a 30 Million dollar mistake!

[Biggkatt01]

But a mistake Apple can live with how about the stupid mistake of shipping a device thats overheating and having screen issues so palm is also taking it in the backside bu Apple can afford it Palm can't since they only sold 50,000 t0 100,00 units now they have about 15% in returns so there profit margin decreases more and not on top of the fact that the unit is getting a bad name from the issues.And also the count is not 30 million most activations went fine but thats the case when you get 1MILLION units in sale and then another 10MLLION people trying to get the update but you wouldn't know that because Palm didn't have that problem because the lonely 50,000 people they had to activate wasn't a breaker on there system.50,000 hahahahahahahahah

[dogrivergrad68]

Let me get this straight. You think that the iPhone 3G was 'a new entrant' to the market, but think the Pre is a continuation of the Treo and Centro platform? It's a brand new system! Different OS, native applications, accessories, etc. The only thing common with the older system is that you can run PalmOS apps via a 3rd party emulator and the Centro's batter fits (but not recommended). It is to the older systems as the Mac was to the Apple II.

[1MacGeek]

dogrivergrad68 said:

Let me get this straight. You think that the iPhone 3G was 'a new entrant' to the market,
but think the Pre is a continuation of the Treo and Centro platform?

No, I don't. I would explain it but you a) can't read or b) won't read what's there. Either way, you won't get it, so I won't waste the time.

[rfceo]

1MacGeek wrote No, I don't. I would explain it but you a) can't read or b) won't read what's there. Either way, you won't get it, so I won't waste the time.

you did yesterday we went round and round on that one. You can't even keep your stories straight.

No point in talking about anything to do with any smartphone with a
A. Paid Apple or at&t blogger or
B. one of those hysterical iPhone fanboys, who would say white is really black if it had to do with the iPhone.

[achristie]

Yep. Ignore him. He's a friggin loon!

[achristie]

"Yes. It's a very efficient way to go broke."

HAHAHA!!! You are a trip! What are you, 18? Let me guess, you had a stock picking project in one of your high school classes and now you think your an expert. Go ahead and put some of your money in the market (since you've made it painfully obvious you never have). I'll be glad to take it from you!