[RobRokoli]

I am sure we applaud your heroism lutra and stand in admiration of your achievement. However you appear the biggest dupe of all. If you consider complaining about a bad product whining, and think it fair enough that the manufacturer fails to make appropriate redress, then you set yourself up as the snake oil salesman's dream. Since Microsoft has held a virtual monopoly and chooses to barricade itself behind an all but impenetrable corporte firewall, remaining deaf to the outcry, I will join the chorus and communicate my displeasure with Microsoft as loudly as I can, in any forum I can find. The only likelihood of fomenting consumer revolt, of shaking up the arrogant "corporate attitude" that has brought the world to the mess in which it currently finds itself, is the hope that we can shake up arrogant and greedy morons like the heads of Microsoft Corporation and make them aware that the market is angry and ready to say," I'm mad as HELL, and I'm not going to take it any MORE!"

[lutra]

"I am sure we applaud
your heroism lutra and stand in admiration of your achievement. However
you appear the biggest dupe of all. If you consider complaining about a
bad product whining, and think it fair enough that the manufacturer
fails to make appropriate redress, then you set yourself up as the
snake oil salesman's dream."
I'm trying to get across the point that Vista was a poorly recieved operating system from the start. I can remember reading reviews about it -- you know, actual professionals writting up what they think about a product. You read them before you buy something to avoid getting ripped off. People might try that from now on. Issue a little bit of intelligence before jumping feet first into a big purchase. If you don't like the way Microsoft handles themselves -- and they don't have to actually provide any type of pre-sale upgrade discount to anybody if they didn't want to -- then you could always move to Mac or Linux.

And if you think that typing up a complaint and posting it on PCWorld is the same as writing a letter to Microsoft about the issue, then you're terribly wrong. The former is whinning and will get you nowhere. The later is a legitament venue for frustrations.



And as far as Apple giving away 30 dollar upgrades to their new OS, well duh! They make a fortune off of the hardware you -have- to buy from them. Talk about a monopoly.

[RobRokoli]

As I said in my original post Lutra, my next computer WILL be a Mac but with a new motherboard and cpu's on my PC, my present computer has a couple of years left. I would move to Linux now but for the fact that in addition to using my computer for work, I also play games. So maybe I buy a game console AND a Mac. I also mentioned in my original post that my coming to Vista Ultimate is a long story not worth recounting, so I didn't exactly "dive" in.

And you are right the only way to get through the impenetrable corporate firewall at Microsoft is to sit down and write and print and mail a letter and all to the same end really, save for some greasy reply full of apologies followed by a non sequitur like, "we at Microsoft look forward to serving you in the future." It ain't worth all the trouble. I will vote with my feet. Time was I respected MS. Now, I hate the arrogance. I hate that Microsoft would presume to make itself the one God above computing and the Internet. PC World is an influential magazine. If I know corporations they tend to gather public and media comment. Maybe someone at MS will see this thread. Maybe they won't

I have even worked at the top end of mainstream media and have observed how "movements" begin and I still have enough revolutionary zeal that I want to fight back against corporations like Microsoft. When people join together and share experiences, when outcry is followed by a decline in market share, companies like Microsoft can be brought to bay. Would I be happy to see MS turn itself around so that I could continue on my way? You bet. In the mean time for many, many reasons this company has made me angry and I simply refuse to buy any Microsoft product and just to spite it even further, My browser is Firefox.

[rgreen4]

ShannonVanWagner said:

Perhaps you could provide a list of the software you are talking about...

How about a Word Processor with Mail Merge?
How about a spreadsheet package that will open a password protected .xls file sent to you by someone, so you can update and send back. (OO will open it, but when you make a change, it will not save it in the .xls format)?
How about any application that will download and can then be installed by just clicking on the setup routine?
How about IBM terminal emulations so you can log onto a mainframe?
How about a package that will allow you to open an Access database generated by a colleague, much less let you update and return it?
Or just how about an OS that will recognize the Broadcom Wireless adapter in a 4 or 5 year old HP or Dell?
Or are we expecting too much from an OS that after more than 15 years on the free distribution list still only has a 1% market penetration at the consumer level?
These forums are full of posts by those declaring their favorite Linux distro the latest and greatest alternative to Windows, only to have questions raised by those who have tried it, been frustrated and fled back to Windows.
As for those with Vista Ultimate, the major difference between Vista Business and Vista Ultimate included Media Center and Business did not. However, there have been postings that Windows 7 Professional will include Media Center, so then the question remains - what does Ultimate have that Professional does not?

[johnwalterman]

Hmm thank god I got Home Premium.
Sd fsr sd I am conserned, any features over those included in Home Premium are useless anyway.

[Grr8008]

All computers used for personal use are PCs. Anyway, I don't get all the Microsoft bashing in this article. Microsoft has the right to set their own prices, just like Apple.

[gsmiley]

Microsoft has copied a lot from Apple in Windows for 20+ years. This time it should copy the pricing. When Snow Leopard (OS X 10.6) ships in September the cost will be the princely sum of about $30. This version will incorporate numerous improvements. Most of these will be under the hood facilities intended for developers. Apple has understood that if it wants to get users to upgrade it would have to offer a really good price.
For most Windows XP users and current and former Vista users, Windows 7 won’t be seen as an upgrade of Vista but as a replacement for a fiasco that shouldn’t have been offered in the first place. IMO, the right consumer price for Windows 7 should be the OEM price.

[Boomshadow]

"How about a Word Processor with Mail Merge?"

That would be Microsoft Word, of which six (!) versions work with Ubuntu and other Linux flavors under Wine. You didn't even check out http://appshq.wine.org, did you?

"How about a spreadsheet package that will open a password protected
.xls file sent to you by someone, so you can update and send back. (OO
will open it, but when you make a change, it will not save it in the
.xls format)?"

Excel (see above). Also, there's a simple option for OpenOffice Calc to save in the format of your choice. You can also pick this option separately in Writer, Base, etc.

"How about any application that will download and can then be installed by just clicking on the setup routine?"

Synaptics Package Manager allows you to pick from a huge list of applications and set them up easily. Beyond that, maybe it's time for you to read some documentation instead of just doing it the old way.

"How about IBM terminal emulations so you can log onto a mainframe?"

Telnet 3270 emulators are preinstalled on nearly every Linux distro. Check your menu, or install with Synaptics. Again, RTFM.

"How about a package that will allow you to open an Access database
generated by a colleague, much less let you update and return it?"

ahem. Access. See above.

"Or just how about an OS that will recognize the Broadcom Wireless adapter in a 4 or 5 year old HP or Dell?"

Here, your mileage may vary. I never had issues with my 5 year old Compaq, which also used Broadcom.

"Or are we expecting too much from an OS that after more than 15 years
on the free distribution list still only has a 1% market penetration at
the consumer level?"

Considering that it's community-programmed and not crammed down consumers' throats via a massive marketing campaign, maybe it's the Linux community that's expecting too much from the consumer.

"These forums are full of posts by those declaring their favorite Linux
distro the latest and greatest alternative to Windows, only to have
questions raised by those who have tried it, been frustrated and fled
back to Windows. "

Did you really try it, though, or did you just load it up, freak out when it didn't do exactly what you thought it should do, and then flee? Seriously, you're talking about making a real change here. If you approach it like you're just buying a different brand of toaster, of course you're going to be disappointed. Educate yourself.

[boushara]

Microsoft's whole idea behind not giving Ultimate users discounts is the fact that they shelled out the bucks for Vista Ultimate because the wanted or needed the features in Ultimate and will be willing to do so again. While users of the lower end could look at going to other options such as Mac or Linux. Offering the discounts to the lower end protects their market share, while offering a discount to the kind of people that buy ultimate would not make the same sense because they are going to be less likely to switch away from windows.

[Boomshadow]

I perhaps could have mentioned that OpenOffice has had mail merge since version 3.0, if not before.

[angylProgrammer]

Oh, no! The linux troll is out again... :P

Seriously, no one here wants to hear this BS about linux slavery. How about just being ble to go down to the store, buying a new game, with DX10 graphics, and running it. No linux hack can enable that. And face it, everything you do with linux is a hack or a buggy workaround to a sloppy OS made by a bunch of hackers living in their mom's basement. I'll take the freedom I can get from Apple or even evil M$. The freedom to run the software I want, when I want to, with no hacking, console windows, package managers, or broken drivers.

Commercial software, FTW!

[greenjrd]

Hey I just bought a new laptop at the start of June with Vista Ultimate. So of course I am getting shafted. Wish the powers that be would take notice.

[RobRokoli]

It is self evident that computers for personal use are Personal Computers. Common usage distinguishes between what once was known as the IBM standard, now more or less the Microsoft standard and Mac with its separate and distinctive OS. So, do I know that Mac's are for personal use too? Count on it. To suggest that Microsoft can charge whatever it chooses to charge is hardly trenchant but also is self evident. By all means let the geniuses at MS charge whatever they choose and in the absence of any gesture on their part to create and maintain good customer relations, I and millions of others will take our business elsewhere. The field is much larger than it was in the days when IBM proclaimed MS DOS to be its standard operating system. The futures of HP, Dell, Acer, Toshiba and all other PC makers also are hinged to the Microsoft that has become too big and too arrogant. When those companies which already have had about enough of Ballmer's boys in Redmond WA, see the market abandoning Microsoft they will not waste time following suit.

[lutra]

Why are people who just bought compters getting shafted because they got it with vista ultimate? It's not like it's news that Windows 7 is coming out in just a few months. Perhaps you'd want to wait until the new OS comes out then make your purchase. Can it be that simple? Yes, it can.

[greenjrd]

Well excuse me for needing Ultimate for my business Mr. Snippy. You ever think that maybe... I couldn't wait any longer to get a new notebook?

[ShannonVanWagner]

>How about a Word Processor with Mail Merge?
OpenOffice.org has a "form letters"(aka Mail Merge) process included, check the help.
>How about a spreadsheet package that will open a password protected
.xls file sent to you by someone, so you can update and send back. (OO
will open it, but when you make a change, it will not save it in the
.xls format)?
OpenOffice.org does allow you to open an .xls document, change it, and
save it back to .xls with a password. Perhaps it's the new OOXML format
from MSFT you're talking about, .xlsx, this is a new format inititave
by MSFT. While OpenOffice.org can't yet save to .xlsx, it can open it
and save the document as a regular .xls (or Open Document Format), and I'm quite sure it will be able to save to OOXML formats soon. So
unless you are specifically trying to save to the new OOXML MSFT format, which most people are trying to stay away from anyway, you
shouldn't have a problem.
>How about any application that will download and can then be installed by just clicking on the setup routine?
Installing
software in Ubuntu Linux is even easier than that, just click any link
on a web page that points to apt:// - then enter your password, then
the program installs. Checkout getdeb.net
for more information. Also installing programs from within the Ubuntu
Linux GUI is very easy as well, just click
Applications>Add/Remove>find the software you want and put a
checkmark by it>click Apply Changes>Enter your password because
it's an administrative task and then the program installs.
>How about IBM terminal emulations so you can log onto a mainframe?
How about the "x3270 is an IBM 3270 terminal emulator for
the X Window System and Windows." See x3270.bgp.nu/ for more information.
>How about a package that will allow you to open an Access database
generated by a colleague, much less let you update and return it?
If it's Access XP, you can use WINE.
[http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=12]
>Or just how about an OS that will recognize the Broadcom Wireless adapter in a 4 or 5 year old HP or Dell?
Ubuntu Linux will recognize Broadcom adapters but since these adapters
use a proprietary firmware to run, the drivers cannot be legally
included on the Linux disk. It is very easy to install these drivers
though, after you agree to the EULA for them, in Ubuntu Linux - simply
connect to the wired LAN and then run
System>Administration>Hardware Drivers. The Hardware Drivers
utility enables you to easily install restricted (proprietary) drivers,
i.e., NVIDIA(graphics), Broadcom, and others.
>How about an OS that after more than 15 years on the free
distribution list still only has a 1% market penetration at the
consumer level?
Are
you saying that you'll only purchase an os that has a high market
share? Why is that a good idea? Many people say Windows has the most
virus problems because it has the highest market share. I'm not seeing
the argument there... Also, there have been reports that 1% is an
inaccurate number. Dell is selling 1/3 of all netbooks with Ubuntu
Linux, that is 33%
[http://www.liliputing.com/2009/02/1-in-3-dell-netbooks-runs-ubuntu-linux.html?hl=en&client=news&q=Linux&ie=utf-8]
>These forums are full of posts by those declaring their favorite
Linux distro the latest and greatest alternative to Windows, only to
have questions raised by those who have tried it, been frustrated and
fled back to Windows.
I've been using Linux for years, and I couldn't be happier. There are many more like me.. checkout this article:
[http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/06/invisible-force-destroying-status-quo.html]
>As for those with Vista Ultimate, the major difference between
Vista Business and Vista Ultimate included Media Center and Business
did not. However, there have been postings that Windows 7 Professional
will include Media Center, so then the question remains - what does
Ultimate have that Professional does not?
There are several programs that let you use Linux as a Media Center, checkout this article:
[http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/using-your-linux-computer-as-a-media-center-part-1/]



Let me know if you need any assistance.

Regards,

Shannon VanWagner

FREE YOURSELF, Use GNU/LINUX! | linux.com | getgnulinux.org |
ubuntuguide.org | whylinuxisbetter.net | openoffice.org |
humans-enabled.com

[Dom2354]

I am so done with VISTA SUCKS. Get a life. Most of the people complaining have no right to be in front of a computer. Yes it is buggy and sometimes a pain in the other end, but it also accomplished one of the main functions it was supposed to and that was put up a wall of defense against virus's and malware. I am a computer tech and specialize in home repair and of all the Vista computers that I have worked on and there have been a few only 2 were really messed up to the point of a low level and reinstall. Now I won't even try to count how many XP comps I worked on and how many of them were destroyed by malicious software ( made a ton of money on them) but from my findings the numbers are not proportionate to each other and show me that with Vista MS walked in the right direction.
Now the biggest complaint about Vista IS LEARNING A NEW OS AFTER 8 YRS WITH XP. Yes the did change things up a bit and to those aforementioned people that have the wrong seat they screamed the most. Now to all those people that scream"MY OLD SOFTWARE WON'T WORK WITH VISTA" the same exact thing was said when XP came out, ah here we go again with that 8 yr span again people forget.
I have tried Windows 7 and yes it is beautiful and works better then Vista on a much wider platform of computers (9 yrs old wow, yes they did) but for all the daily chores I do with Vista it works and it works very well. So does MS owe me anything ? Yes they do MORE DREAM SCAPE BACKGROUNDS AND IN A HURRY.
P.S. I wrote this on a Vista Ultimate computer SUCKERS

[snowbank]

Exactly - the whole point of owning an iPhone, airport express and iPods is that they work easily with iTunes. Right now I have it set up so I can stream music from my AppleTV to my airport express in the backyard and patio, and control it will the Remote app on my iPhone or my wife's touch. It's sick.

Now I could spend a month of my life trying to do the equivalent in Linux... but I don't need to because I buy products that are already engineered instead of homebrewing everything. And of course, any Linux homebrew breaks with every update.

The programs that I use on Vista: ArcGIS and Warhammer Online.

Linux works for the most basic office apps for sure. For those of us that are more worried about productivity than fighting monopolies - you can't beat an OS X machine. It is just so easy to use. content flows between apps, the UI is super fast to use, etc. The OS X experience is just simply unparralleled.

[snowbank]

That sounds like fun: running office in WINE in Linux?
So for $100 I can just run windows? Best $100 I will ever spend.... just to avoid all screwing around with linux weirdness.

Yes, I have run several flavors and used to be a fanboy. Then I graduated from college and needed to get work done...

[Boomshadow]

Then let me save you $100, buddy: Wine is free (the API, not the beverage--if you want to drink, you're on your own!). You don't need to install Windows within Linux to use Wine (in fact, you can't; you need a virtual machine package like VMWare to do that, which Wine is not--it's not an emulator or a virtual machine).

Wine is already preconfigured on most Linux distributions, so there's very little tinkering for most software (unless you run something ancient like Quicken 99, but that's pretty extreme, and you probably should upgrade to Quicken 2009 or GNUcash anyway).

College must have been quite some time ago for you to have run "several flavors" of Linux and not comprehend the basics of Wine. With Wine installed, most software can be installed just as in Windows, run by double-clicking just as in Windows, and will often work as fast or faster than in Windows!