[Boomshadow]

I've run 20 years' worth of commercial software, and a good deal of it required just as much tinkering as the free stuff. Have fun shelling out. I'm taking the path of freedom wherever possible.

[Havoc]

I have an issue with MS pricing, yes the 49 and 99 upgrade prices are pretty decent.

I bought and paid for a retail version of Ultimate, which was supposed to have all the bells and whistles i wanted, however this never came to pass.

IMO MS should give the users who purchased the most expensive OS at least an Upgrade to 7 for their troubles.

Personally i dont like Vista, was it ok, i guess. I used it for awhile and went back to XP. The release was a joke, the unsupport hardware was a pain, and the bloatware was a joke. After the sp1 things seem to calm down a bit, but i never really went back to it.

I have installed and used W7 x64 on my Hp Dv6500 since beta and it is awesome, i would more than happily pay for the upgrade from Vista Ultimate to win7 Ultimate, but for an upgrade price not for this full price bend you over crap MS is doing.

Overall if MS would offer the ultimate Vista users a little something in return for the fact they got nothing then hey i would be good with that

[snowbank]

An impressive effort. So much so that I followed up on Access... a program that is not available on any other platform... Here is what I found. 2007 does not work. and what about 2003? 7 year old software:

Selected test results (selected in 'Test Results' table below)
What works
Opening existing forms and tables, entering data, saving data.

What does not
Opening files from network volumes. Certain dialogs seem not to work when creating new entry forms, but further testing may prove otherwise.

What was not tested
Creating new queries and reports.

Additional Comments
Several MS runtime libraries need to be installed via winetricks for Access to work. I got it to work by installing the following additional packages via winetricks:
corefonts, dac28, jet40, vcrun2008sp1, vb6run

Hmmm.... that is freedom for you?

I say: free yourself from hacking things together and BUY engineered code.

[snowbank]

It's true. But recently I only have issues with XP or OS X if I am trying to do something funky or extremely high-end. And then it is a matter of customizing it.

I am willing to concede that Ubuntu is much better than the Red Hat that I used to use... Shannon's install feature is pretty sweet... but using WINE is clearly a PITA. You are deluding yourself and weakening the Linux community by making any other claim. If ubuntu were anywhere close to the current Vista (which is decent if you have the hardware) or OS X experience, then it would own the NetBook market. Even then, when people only want to surf the web and using a doc editor, the machines get returned.

[williamb]

Not half so much as any MS users in the UK and Europe, according to Techworld. Reason given is that Microsoft had to produce a special edition of the OS without IE. Instead everyone will have to buy new Windows 7 licenses instead of being able to upgrade. Prices are appropriately elevated over those charged in the US for an upgrade. Thank you Microsoft and EU for penalizing your customers and EU bureaucracy your citizens for where we live.

[ShannonVanWagner]

>Even then, when people only want to surf the web and using a doc editor, the machines get returned.

Actually this statement is FUD.. Dell is selling 1 out of every 3 netbooks with Linux and the ratings for Ubuntu on their site are very good. As for the return rate, Dell says it's comparable to Windows XP. Look at this article to see what I'm talking about:

http://blog.laptopma...-sold-run-linux

Also, Dell has an Ubuntu version option for every netbook, look for yourself here:

http://www.dell.com/home/netbooks

For customer satisfaction ratings on Ubuntu Linux, see here:

http://www.dell.com/...en&s=dhs&~ck=mn

To get your $299 Notebook (yes full NOTEBOOK, NOT NETBOOK ), go here:

http://digg.com/linuxunix/299DellUbuntuLinuxLaptopcomputernota_netbook

Here are the specs:

Intel® Celeron® 585 (1MB
cache/2.16GHz/667Mhz FSB), Ubuntu GNU/Linux Desktop Edition version
8.10, Glossy, widescreen 15.6 inch display (1366x768), 2GB Shared Dual
Channel DDR2 at 800MHz, 160GB SATA Hard Drive (5400RPM), Intel Graphics
Media Accelerator X4500HD, AND $13.8 Billion dollars worth of FREE open
source software for you to use/share/enjoy

> but using WINE is clearly a PITA

There are many good Windows games that actually run better, in terms of performance on WINE. See some basic videos here:

http://digg.com/linuxunix/DellInspiron530nNVIDIA9400GTUbuntupreloadedAwesome

The only thing "hurting the community", are the people who don't want to share the good news about GNU/Linux.
FREE YOURSELF, Use GNU/LINUX! | linux.com | getgnulinux.org |
ubuntuguide.org | whylinuxisbetter.net | openoffice.org |
humans-enabled.com

[RNR19952]

Actually when you purchase a product from a store that sucks, you can take it back for a refund, anyone get a Vista refund??

[rgreen4]

The only features that Windows 7 Ultimate has that Windows 7 Professional Does not, is BitLocker and switch between 35 different languages. Here is the version comparison. This is unlike Vista where the Business version could join a domain and had the backup, but did not have Media Center, whereas Ultimate had it all.

Is there something else you need that would not be found in either Professional or Home Premium?

[snowbank]

Re:Returns
Okay, so that contradicts everything that I have read for the past two months... so I guess you know something that all the major tech editors don't. Can you find an article from a tech site backing you up? I would research it more, but I din't really care. BTW, here is the first comment from the first article you posted:
"If you read the forums of sites such as mydellmini, you?ll find that the enthusiasts tell you to buy the cheapest Mini and upgrade the SSD and memory yourself- these users may use Linux or they may install the OS of their choice like Windows or Mac OS X."
... which is what I would do, since I have an extra copy of XP.

And here is what it takes to run WOW on WINE:
My PC is a Intel Core 2 Duo 8500 with a dp35dp mobo. 4gb of ram and a Nvidia 8600. I did not do anything out of this world. My step by step guide would be something like this:

1. Install ubuntu 9.04 or whatever you have from scratch. In my case it is Ubuntu 9.04 with ext4 as default format.

2. Add the winehq source for your synaptic / aptitude usage. I mean the software source repository thingy. And the key from the winehq download place. No need to compile anything.

3. aptitude update or synaptic update and download the 1.1.24 that you should now see in your repositories.

4. Download the drivers from nvidia from the restricted repos. I use jockey-gtk in my case.

5. Configure the wine with winecfg, remember to configure the sound to alsa. If you do not hear anything configure it to oss. Afterwards configure the video and remember to activate the option about pixel shader and vertex shader set to hardware. At least in my case this is the best solution.

6. Install the game from scratch or copy it from another place but remember to remove your cache, logs, wtf config and account data.

7. run the game and configure it as you like.

8. You can configure some tweaks to the nvidia card which might help a little more with the nvidia-settings.

Also, there is no support for Warhammer Online. Apparently your characters do not render. But no one has seriously tried to get it to work... because even if you made $10 an hour it would not be worth the trouble to try!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thus my original point... you can waste your time with Ubuntu or just a damn computer that does what you want without having to search to the ends of the earth for drivers and config files... blah, blah blah. For about $100! There is ZERO benefit to ubuntu! None. It's just free and you edit the source code.

I am done. Thanks for playing with me, but you are obviously unreasonable people, so there is no point in continuing to prove you wrong.

[OshkoshJohn]

I say people who installed Windows Vista on an underpowered PC deserve to be disappointed. I get the latest and greatest Windows OS when I get a new computer, not when Mister Bill releases the new OS. My present machine runs Vista Ultimate 64-bit, and has a Q6700 on an Intel 775-pin MB, a 512 megabyte Invidia card, and four gigs of RAM. When I got the machine a year ago, it worked perfectly. I have installed the service packs and all the recommended upgrades automatically as they are released.



I have no idea what my next box will be, or who will be building it or even when it will happen. I'll get the latest and greatest Microsoft OS at that time.

[rgreen4]

THE TOPIC AT HAND IS WINDOW 7 AND WHETHER SOME USERS OF VISTA ARE GETTING SCREWED BY NOT GETTING A DISCOUNTED UPGRADE. IT IS NOT THE VARIOUS FEATURES OF LINUX AND HOW TO INSTALL AND USE IT. IF SOMEONE WANTS TO FOLLOW THAT DISCUSSION, PLEASE START A DISCUSSION IN THE LINUX FORUM AREA. STAY ON TOPIC.

[bbvammy]

if my Vista is a Lemon ... can I call BBB?

[WinTard]

mcbarker said:

>

Quote

I'm not so sure about that. As far as I know, there's no "upgrade" path from a 32-bit version of XP to a 64-bit version of 7 Ultimate (same as the RC1 candidate), and the $319 fresh install version price is a little over the top for an OS.

Please see the PCWorld article: Microsoft to Sell Windows 7 for $50

Windows users in the U.S. will be able to preorder Windows 7 Home Premium for US$49.99 starting Friday.
...
It will begin letting people who buy PCs with Windows Vista starting this Friday upgrade to Windows 7 for free, once it becomes available in October.
...
The discounted preorder offer lasts from June 26 through July 11. People can choose from the discounted Home Premium offer or Windows 7 Professional, which will run for $99.99.
...

Okay, Microsoft has not announced the pricing for "Ultimate" yet. But what is available to ANYBODY, regardless of the OS you use, is to pre-order Windows 7 Home, or Windows 7 Pro for $50 and $10 respectively. x86 (32-bit) or x64 (64-bit) are included in the current promo.

And when Microsoft announces something for Windows 7 Ultimate, it will apply to both x86 and x64 alike...

Why speculate? Let's wait. Some morons predicted $800+ right here in PCWorld forums. Ha! I've always stated that for around $200 or so, I would buy Windows 7 Ultimate x64. Just look at my posts, and you will see I am quite predictable, and steady... But I expect street prices to be lower than that, (sorry I'm speculating) perhaps in the $150 range for a full license (not upgrade) to Windows 7 Ultimate x64. As evidenced by current prices for Vista Ultimate x64 of $104.95. (Please see for substantiation: http://www.pcworld.c....html?id=10230) And I surmise that an upgrade would cost less than a full license, as is usually the practice nowadays...

Since Windows 7 isn't released yet (except in Ultimate beta RC form), there certainly is an upgrade path from XP x86 (32-bit) to Vista Ultimate x64 (64-bit) today.

In addition have you checked Microsoft website concerning the upgrade option?

Windows 7 Upgrade Option

Looking for a new PC?
So you want a new PC and you want Windows 7? No problem. We've worked with PC manufacturers to help you protect your PC investment. The companies below offer selected PCs that qualify for the Windows 7 Upgrade Option.* Buy a qualifying PC today, then follow the manufacturer's instructions to get the software upgrade. Prices and delivery methods will vary, please check the manufacturer's website for full details.
Acer, Asus, Dell, eMachines, Gateway, HP, Lenovo, Samsung, Sony, Toshiba, Other PC manufacturers

Love your current PC?
Buy a Windows Vista upgrade now. Get a Windows 7 upgrade later.
Are you happy with the PC you have, but haven't updated its operating system to Windows Vista yet? There's never been a better time. With the Windows 7 Upgrade Option, you can get the benefits of Windows Vista today, and be ready for Windows 7 when it's ready. Here's how it works:
- Make sure your PC is ready for Windows Vista.
- Download and run the Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor.
- Purchase a qualifying version* of a Windows Vista retail packaged product from your favorite retailer between June 26, 2009 and January 31, 2010.

{Snipped}

Good luck!

~~~~~~~~~~~
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.
~ Leonardo da Vinci, 1452-1519, Italian Painter and Sculptor

[rgreen4]

WinTard - your PM mailbox is full.

[bbvammy]

Next year's title:

Are some Windows 7 users getting screwed on Windows 8?

[TheBigOldDog]

Leave it to Microsoft to do the wrong thing. If there is a more mismanaged defacto Monopoly in the US I don't know what it is. They are just going to continue to do all they can to drive people to other platforms. Unreal.

[PoorBird]

hmmmm....you buys your ticket, you takes your ride....no guarantees on the ride quality.... a less charitable view might be that if one bought ANY version of Vista, they deserve what they got....but I won't say that here.

[pddcoo]

Those MAC vs PC ads might be worth another look. The SP2 upgrade failed on my Ultimate PC. Two weeks later, MS tech support still hasn't figured out how to resolve the problem. Their solution is to send me a new Ultimate disk with SP2. If I have to reinstall the OS you'd think they'd send one that worked with their own freakin upgrades...I had a similar problem with XP Pro some years back, and the fix was MUCH easier than this. $219 represents a pretty good discount on a mac.

[rgreen4]

It's really easy to maintain the OS for a Mac, there are only about six machines or so that run the OS, and Apple makes them all. Microsoft has to produce an OS that runs on millions of combinations of hardware put out by manufacturers. Have you posted a question about solving your problem under the Windows discussion area on this forum?

Open a question and post the machine specifics, especially make and model along with any modifications. And although you fault the OS, they are sendning you a new install disc with SP2 aren't they. Now, I have not loaded SP2, as it is just the compiliation of all the updates released since SP1.

[WinTard]

I would have fixed your problem in 30 minutes, by installing XP-SP3 from scratch. How? A brand new 1000GB disk for less than $90. Once installed, plug your existing old HDD. Done. And you've also got a full backup, you can stash away in a fire-proof safe, or offsite to boot!

Is your time worth anything?

Problem? What problem?

Oh, and find me any Mac with 8GB RAM and 4 core 64-bit processor for $400 please...

~~~~~~~~~~
A genius is someone who can accomplish in one step what anybody can in twenty.
~ Anonymous