[Kahuna]

"Kahuna you seem pretty emotional about your obvious bias for Apple? "

No emotion at all. I am cold-blooded in everything I do. You would not like me.

Don't confuse taking a determined position and one with an emotional investment.

[backbuster]

"People will pay a premium for quality."



People pay a premium for a name assuming a popular name brand is of better quality. Customer satisfaction and reliability ratings are based on a number of variables, specs and quality are but two of those. To assume because a product has high quality and specs because it has high customer satisfaction and reliability ratings is the same as assuming they are the same because they come out of the same factory. It's not the right information to make that determination. Do I believe that at Apple produces a quality product? I think they do, but I can't prove it with out the manufacturing specs. I don't make assumptions about the quality and specs of a product based on the namebrand, price, and place of manufacture or costumer surveys as this can be very misleading.

[Kahuna]

"People pay a premium for a name assuming a popular name brand is of better quality. "

And they would howl the loudest if those expectations were not met, believing (correctly) that they were ripped off. However, for most Mac owners, this is not the case. I have good friends who have replaced their PCs at least once in the same years I have had my current Mac. Needless to say, their total cost of ownership is far greater than mine.

So, does the Mac cost "too much"?

[leicaman]

[quote name='WinTard']
> [quote name='leicaman']
> To call the iPhone's success "hype" is naive in the extreme.

Suit yourself. I think it is naive not to see through the hype and FUD that Apple generates...
[/quote]

I see through the hype just fine. But to call hard numbers hype is ridiculous.

[leicaman]

WinTard said:

Quote

I agree with all you say in general. I don't agree with the assertion that Apple spec's higher quality parts than HP or Dell. I'd require some independent substantiation, proving that assertion...

There are plenty of surveys out that prove that Apple's service numbers, and customer satisfaction is by far the best in the industry. Independent substantiation? Maybe not in one survey, but it's consistent across the spectrum. Look at the numbers that came out of the UK this week. 94 percent of users believe Macs are better.

Quote

My experience with Asus is outstanding, going back to at least 13 years of continuous and reliable service. I still own: Dell Latitude CP/I from 1998, Dell Inspiron 300m from 2004, and a Dell Latitude D830 from 2008. All running flawlessly. All running on original parts, (except for batteries). Zero problems.

That tells me that Dell uses quality enough electronic components to last easily 11 years of continuous duty. Perhaps not better than Apple, but certainly not below par either...

One person's experience is hardly a test. And the numbers show Dell is actually behind the average, with Lenovo, Asus and others making better machines. Dell's reputation is in the toilet the past years, and certainly since the last time I bought a Dell. We have one Dell workstation at work and it performs very well. But again, one example is not proof at all.

Quote

The best warranty is the one never used...

Amen to that!

[leicaman]

WinTard said:

Kahuna you seem pretty emotional about your obvious bias for Apple? Regardless of brand loyalty, be careful who or what you follow blindly... Keep your options open, for your own sake.

That's a cheap shot, and a gross generalization to characterize a person who like Apple products as following blindly. You really need to dial back on the a priori attacks based on cliche, and old memes. To assume that someone is following blindly just because they use Apple products is a worn out old argument that goes against the trends in the three industries Apple competes in. Apple has its faults, and makes us furious at times with the choices it makes, but the problem is, everyone else is worse. Hardly a blind endorsement of Apple.

[Kahuna]

@leicaman

I appreciate your kind gesture on my behalf to put Wintard's post in its proper perspective. I am also aware of previous "issues" Wintard has had on this board.

For the record, my first computer was a PC I had custom built, running Windows 95. I went on to a WebTV (before Microsoft bought that company), then Oracle's New Internet Computer, and then finally a G4 iMac I bought in 2002.

Your post has given me the opportunity to get back on subject and I will now claim that I (and millions of others like me) are really the ones who "saved" Apple by buying Apple products. It really is that simple.

[leicaman]

Kahuna said:

@leicaman

I appreciate your kind gesture on my behalf to put Wintard's post in its proper perspective. I am also aware of previous "issues" Wintard has had on this board.

For the record, my first computer was a PC I had custom built, running Windows 95. I went on to a WebTV (before Microsoft bought that company), then Oracle's New Internet Computer, and then finally a G4 iMac I bought in 2002.

Your post has given me the opportunity to get back on subject and I will now claim that I (and millions of others like me) are really the ones who "saved" Apple by buying Apple products. It really is that simple.

You're welcome. I was a big PC advocate (mind you, I used OS/2 and then NeXTSTEP for Intel, BeOS and Windows reluctantly) for years. Used Macs at work but never thought they would pull out of the doldrums. (I read Infoworld and BYTE and thought they knew what they were talking about.) When I heard OS X was coming, after having used NeXTSTEP, I knew that was the future. And it was people like you and me that saved Apple.

Microsoft certainly did not, and Steve Jobs was exactly right about it not being a zero sum game. (I wonder if the person who wrote that Steve Jobs was wrong even knows what zero sum means.) Microsoft does not have to lose for Apple to be successful. Not everyone is like Daniel Palinview in "There Will Be Blood" (based on Sinclair Lewis' book Oil) who believed that not only did he have to win, but eveyone else must lose completely.

What makes Apple stand out is beyond the comprehension of some people. They think it's how their products look. They think it's how they are marketed. But that's only the gloss. As Steve Jobs himself once said, design isn't about how a product looks, it's about how it works. Good enough is never that. Don't ask what's wrong with something, ask what's right with it.

[Kahuna]

@leicaman

" and Steve Jobs was exactly right about it not being a zero sum game. (I wonder if the person who wrote that Steve Jobs was wrong even knows what zero sum means.) Microsoft does not have to lose for Apple to be successful."

In an expanding market that is, at least in theory, true. (A company capable of disruptive technology could make a competitor's product obsolete, in short order. Before the iPod, there were several hundred music players. Now, you have the iPod an a relative handful with fractional market share....in a much larger market than 10 years ago.) In a static or contracting market, most assuredly there will be winners and losers.

"What makes Apple stand out is beyond the comprehension of some people. "

Because it is largely an intangible, something some have described as the user experience. They are right, because what Apple products do, that few from any other company can, is perfectly mesh the machine with the human, so that the machine becomes an extension of the human. Good design is fine, the technical capabilities may be awesome, but it comes down to how it feels.

My iMac feels like it was made just for me. I suspect you have had the same reaction.

[artzy65]

"My iMac feels like it was made just for me. I suspect you have had the same reaction"

http://www.robertful...com/Apple2.html
"Its followers are unshakeable. They are besotted. They have discovered enchantment, and even a whiff of moral purpose, in a device for organizing and transmitting data. There have been infatuations with consumer equipment in the past: people were loyal to certain automobile manufacturers, occasionally to the point of fanaticism, and high-fidelity fanatics of the 1950s drove their friends crazy by demonstrating the sonic range of their equipment. But these passions never approached the levels of commitment and anger we can find in the world of Apple. Devotion to Apple is unprecedented in the history of technology."

[Kahuna]

I read the entire article and the parts you did not quote are most telling. It starts with:

"We who are not Apple devotees can only look upon them with wonder and awe as they mourn their beloved corporation in the days of its dying. We may sympathize with the grief they feel over the huge losses, sinking market share, and major layoffs at Apple Computer Inc. "

The only problem is that it is now a full dozen years later, and Apple is the most widely respected brand in the world, with a fortune in the bank and products that are envied by the competition.

As for Microsoft, "Microsoft DOS system used in PCs is Protestant, even Calvinistic. "It allows free interpretation of scripture, demands difficult personal decisions...and takes for granted the idea that not all can reach salvation." "

It was true a dozen years ago and it is more true now. Vista was the sort of thing one finds in Hell.

If you want true salvation and eternal bliss, go to an Apple Store.

[RedSlayer]

Erm - are you on another world?

Jobs is known for ignoring iPhone producers (directly) in China that are dying from poison - did you miss that news item?
Jobs is known for being the worst employer known on this planet - according to his own employees - did you miss that fact?
Jobs was a control-freak - did you miss that fact?

Did you miss that Apple was bankrupt, and Bill Gates stepped-in and bailed Apple out? Jobs crucified Apple.

Apple is trash - based on conning imbeciles into believing that they are joining a cult.
Cults are born from a need from susceptible people who have key parts missing from their lives.

Remember this: Apple promised the Earth and failed - Android only aimed for it - and is very nearly there.

Red

[RedSlayer]

Kahuna,

What makes Apple stand-out is indeed beyond the comprehension of some people - typically - Apple fan-boys.
Marketing - all about gloss? It's 'how it works'?

You mean - when Jobs tells you to do EVERYTHING - as he tells you, with software that he allows, on networks that he allows - is 'the way'?
When your battery fails - you MUST send the whole kit away for a battery change?
When you get a virus - you didn't really - it DOES NOT EXIST - it was ALL in your imagination (which you believe, because you are in the Apple 'cult').
When I want a music track I download it - from anywhere - in ANY format - on ANY network or Wifi or Bluetooth connection.
Can you do that? Whoops - no - Jobs forbade it - you gotta be connected back at home to BiTunes.
You got a mobile or land line ffs? I really can't differentiate the iPhone from a land-line.

And still, you believe?

Yep - you're an Apple fanatic - even when it goes to 4% like the Mac - you'll still live your life out believing it's gonna be 'big' - lmao.

What a waste of life. tut-tut.

Red

[brainout]

Oh someone kill me now. I just googled "Microsoft stock price today" and got 30.82. Then, "Apple stock price today" and got what? 665.24.