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Vista Can't See Xp Computers On Network

#1 User is offline   shoeheel 

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 06:22 PM

My wife's new Toshiba laptop, with Vista Home Basic, cannot see XP computers on our home network. Nor can I access it with other XP computers .(My son's Windows 7 can see both, and can access both).

All are set to "WORKGROUP" workgroup. Sharing, anti-virus and firewall programs are not the issue. I also added the Link Layer Topology Discovery Responder on the XP machine. I can ping both the Vista and XP machines, to and from each other. I even installed a trial copy Cisco Network Magic on each machine, which works perfectly (allowing the machines to see each other, file transfer, printer sharing, etc., within the Network Magic application).

I can't think of anything else to do, other than upgrade to Windows 7. But I really don't want to reward Microsoft by giving them money to fix a problem they caused.
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#2 User is offline   crazy4laptops 

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 05:24 PM

View Postshoeheel, on 20 February 2010 - 06:22 PM, said:

My wife's new Toshiba laptop, with Vista Home Basic, cannot see XP computers on our home network. Nor can I access it with other XP computers .(My son's Windows 7 can see both, and can access both).

All are set to "WORKGROUP" workgroup. Sharing, anti-virus and firewall programs are not the issue. I also added the Link Layer Topology Discovery Responder on the XP machine. I can ping both the Vista and XP machines, to and from each other. I even installed a trial copy Cisco Network Magic on each machine, which works perfectly (allowing the machines to see each other, file transfer, printer sharing, etc., within the Network Magic application).

I can't think of anything else to do, other than upgrade to Windows 7. But I really don't want to reward Microsoft by giving them money to fix a problem they caused.


Vista Home Basic is (i cannot say the word here) its awful & painful to put it simply

i would recommend windows 7 over any version of vista any day

but that problem is interesting... did you turn on network discovery on the private/public network selection?

wait... how are you connecting to the network? wired?? wireless??

if there is a wifi router between the laptop and the windows xp computers, there's the problem

if your network looks something like this- (the carats ">" are a representation of a device connected)
internet modem > network switch/hub---
> xp computer
> xp computer
> win7 computer
> wifi router > winvista laptop


wifi routers have a security protocol that does not allow local network connections across the internet port (its for hacking prevention/internet invisibility)
unless you get a tunneling program like cisco's netmagic, which basically fakes the connection type if needed to make the network work

if your son is in college... check out http://www.microsoft...us/default.aspx
you can get win7 for $70 instead of $160

hope this helps
-C
Even the experts started out as beginners
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#3 User is offline   shoeheel 

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 08:47 PM

View Postcrazy4laptops, on 21 February 2010 - 05:24 PM, said:

did you turn on network discovery on the private/public network selection?

I assume you're talking about the Vista machine...I think so. I put it as a private network. How do you turn on network discovery? Is it a check box somewhere? I seem to remember having something like that checked. (The wife is gone with her laptop, so I can't be sure until tomorrow.)

View Postcrazy4laptops, on 21 February 2010 - 05:24 PM, said:

how are you connecting to the network? wired?? wireless??

All of the computers are connected wirelessly. Since the XP-to-Windows 7 connection and the Vista-to-Windows 7 connection is OK, I would think the wireless network shouldn't be an issue. Or did I misunderstand?
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#4 User is offline   rgreen4 

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 06:44 AM

View Postshoeheel, on 21 February 2010 - 08:47 PM, said:

View Postcrazy4laptops, on 21 February 2010 - 05:24 PM, said:

did you turn on network discovery on the private/public network selection?

I assume you're talking about the Vista machine...I think so. I put it as a private network. How do you turn on network discovery? Is it a check box somewhere? I seem to remember having something like that checked. (The wife is gone with her laptop, so I can't be sure until tomorrow.)

View Postcrazy4laptops, on 21 February 2010 - 05:24 PM, said:

how are you connecting to the network? wired?? wireless??

All of the computers are connected wirelessly. Since the XP-to-Windows 7 connection and the Vista-to-Windows 7 connection is OK, I would think the wireless network shouldn't be an issue. Or did I misunderstand?


I disagree with Crazy in that you can share files from machine to machine across a wireless network. Now he may be thinking of trying to share files with a machine that is not part of the wireless network, say a machine at home and a machine at school. That is, to use a phrase, a whole different kettle of fish.

You should be able to share files from XP to Vista or to Win7 and vice versa. I have a home network that has two laptops, one XP one Win7. Three desktops, one XP and the other two dual boot Vista/Win7. I can see any of the other four machines and share files from any machine.

On the Vista machine, click on Start -> Network. A box will open showing all the networked devices and computers by name that are powered on. If the machine is powered on but does not show up, that is one to work on. Make a note of any missing computers that you know are turned on. Double clicking on the listed computer should show all the folders set to share.

At the top of this box, is a link to the Network and Sharing Center. Clicking on this will open the Sharing Center and in the lower part of the right hand pane are six options that you can turn on and off. They are in order Network Discovery (mine is on), File Sharing (mine is on), Public Folder Sharing (mine is on) - note that a password is required from the other machines, Printer Sharing (mine is off as I have no printers connected to this machine), Password protected sharing (mine is on) and Media Sharing (mine is off).

I find it interesting that you have named your work group WORKGROUP, as that is the default for Vista and the default for XP was MSHOME. Please check an XP machine by clicking Start -> Control Panel -> Performance and Maintenance -> System. Note that the General Tab gives system information. Click on the Computer Name Tab and it will list the computer name and work group name.

While on the XP machine, click on Start -> My Network Places. This should open a box, again listing all the computers and devices on the network. See if the Vista Machine is listed. If not, not the fact for when you post back. This box also lists all the shared folders on the network.

Then check the Vista machine by clicking on Start -> Control Panel -> System and Maintenance -> System. The window that opens lists not only machine and system information but in the lower section the computer name and work group name. Ensure they are spelled alike.
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#5 User is offline   smax013 

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 06:30 PM

View Postcrazy4laptops, on 21 February 2010 - 05:24 PM, said:



if your network looks something like this- (the carats ">" are a representation of a device connected)
internet modem > network switch/hub---
> xp computer
> xp computer
> win7 computer
> wifi router > winvista laptop





To my knowledge, this setup would not work at all. You need some sort of router between the modem and the computers...not just a hub/network switch. You need some sort of NAT device that will turn that one "public" IP address into a series of private IP addresses for the various computers.

In most cases, the "network switch/hub" would instead be a broadband router, typically with an integrated network switch, with or without a built-in WiFi access point...and the (second) "wifi router" would not be present as the "thing" between the computers and the modem will typically have WiFi as most broadband routers have integrated WiFi access points.
Good riddance PCWorld.
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#6 User is offline   shoeheel 

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 09:10 PM

View Postsmax013, on 22 February 2010 - 06:30 PM, said:

if your network looks something like this- (the carats ">" are a representation of a device connected)
internet modem > network switch/hub---
> xp computer
> xp computer
> win7 computer
> wifi router > winvista laptop


my network does not look like the above. It is an integrated switch/ wifi router, like this:

internet modem > network switch/wifi router ---
> xp computer
> xp computer
> win7 computer
> winvista laptop
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#7 User is offline   shoeheel 

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 09:19 PM

View Postrgreen4, on 22 February 2010 - 06:44 AM, said:

At the top of this box, is a link to the Network and Sharing Center. Clicking on this will open the Sharing Center and in the lower part of the right hand pane are six options that you can turn on and off. They are in order Network Discovery (mine is on), File Sharing (mine is on), Public Folder Sharing (mine is on) - note that a password is required from the other machines, Printer Sharing (mine is off as I have no printers connected to this machine), Password protected sharing (mine is on) and Media Sharing (mine is off).

Mine is the same

View Postrgreen4, on 22 February 2010 - 06:44 AM, said:

I find it interesting that you have named your work group WORKGROUP, as that is the default for Vista and the default for XP was MSHOME. Please check an XP machine by clicking Start -> Control Panel -> Performance and Maintenance -> System. Note that the General Tab gives system information. Click on the Computer Name Tab and it will list the computer name and work group name.

Then check the Vista machine by clicking on Start -> Control Panel -> System and Maintenance -> System. The window that opens lists not only machine and system information but in the lower section the computer name and work group name. Ensure they are spelled alike.

Both are "WORKGROUP"

View Postrgreen4, on 22 February 2010 - 06:44 AM, said:

While on the XP machine, click on Start -> My Network Places. This should open a box, again listing all the computers and devices on the network. See if the Vista Machine is listed. If not, not the fact for when you post back. This box also lists all the shared folders on the network.

I can see the Vista machine from the XP machine, but when I click on it, it is "not accesible"..."The network path was not found."

I'm still stumped.
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#8 User is offline   smax013 

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 11:48 PM

Do you have the same account on both machines with the same passwords? I have never completely figured out the "quirkiness" of Windows networking and thus cannot say if that is required or not, but I have found it does seem to help many times.
Good riddance PCWorld.
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#9 User is offline   rgreen4 

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Posted 23 February 2010 - 08:56 AM

As an experiment, here is what I did.

I installed a clean copy of Vista HP onto a spare drive on my HP Media Center machine that already had Vista on one drive. The clean copy was on a drive with no other drives connected. I set it up, on the network with a user id (required) but no password. I set up a shared folder off of the root (C:/) with the name of Test.

I then signed onto my XP Pro machine on a secondary user id and removed the password.

The XP Pro machine showed the icon for the Vista machine, but when I attempted to access it, I got the sign on screen. I entered my user id, left the password blank and got an error. I then entered my user id, my normal password, clicked on ok and it just came back without any connection.

I then set up my normal password on the Vista machine and tried again. This time on the XP Pro machine when I entered my user id and password (as set up on the Vista machine) it connected to the shared folder. It was an Excel spreadsheet I had copied down from my network drive. I was able to open and view it on the XP Pro machine. (The Vista machine has no applications installed).

In short, in order to share a folder over a network Vista requires a password be set up for the user id, even though it does not need one to log on. Once the password is set up, it will then be needed to long onto that user id.

This is because Vista is set up as a multi user OS from it's basic foundation, and requires the use of passwords to allow access to the files when accessing the machine over a network.

You must attach passwords to the user ids on the XP and Vista machines.
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#10 User is offline   shoeheel 

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Posted 23 February 2010 - 04:35 PM

View Postsmax013, on 22 February 2010 - 11:48 PM, said:

Do you have the same account on both machines with the same passwords? I have never completely figured out the "quirkiness" of Windows networking and thus cannot say if that is required or not, but I have found it does seem to help many times.


The computers have identical accounts with identical passwords. I have also tried different accounts.

The problem does not seem to be with the accounts/passwords, since the Vista machine can't even see the XP machine (except for pinging and Network Magic).
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#11 User is offline   rgreen4 

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Posted 23 February 2010 - 07:24 PM

View Postshoeheel, on 23 February 2010 - 04:35 PM, said:

View Postsmax013, on 22 February 2010 - 11:48 PM, said:

Do you have the same account on both machines with the same passwords? I have never completely figured out the "quirkiness" of Windows networking and thus cannot say if that is required or not, but I have found it does seem to help many times.


The computers have identical accounts with identical passwords. I have also tried different accounts.

The problem does not seem to be with the accounts/passwords, since the Vista machine can't even see the XP machine (except for pinging and Network Magic).


I know we have covered this before, but since the default XP work group name is not WORKGROUP, you would have had to have changed it on all your XP machines. Is this correct? You manually changed the work group name on all your XP machines? Humor me please and change the work group name on the Vista machine to MSHOME and see what effect it has. You will of course have to re-boot after the change.
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#12 User is offline   shoeheel 

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Posted 23 February 2010 - 08:40 PM

View Postrgreen4, on 23 February 2010 - 07:24 PM, said:


I know we have covered this before, but since the default XP work group name is not WORKGROUP, you would have had to have changed it on all your XP machines. Is this correct? You manually changed the work group name on all your XP machines? Humor me please and change the work group name on the Vista machine to MSHOME and see what effect it has. You will of course have to re-boot after the change.



They absolutely have the same "WORKGROUP" workgroup. I even re-ran the network connection wizard on the XP machine, as I suggested on a blog somewhere.

My son checked today on his Windows 7 machine. He can see and connect to both the XP and Vista machine, BUT THEY CAN'T CONNECT TO AND SEE EACH OTHER. (XP CAN SEE VISTA, BUT NOT CONNECT; VISTA CAN'T EVEN SEE XP.)

Weird, weird, weird. Oh well. Looks like I'll be buying Windows 7 soon.
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#13 User is offline   rgreen4 

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Posted 23 February 2010 - 10:50 PM

View Postshoeheel, on 23 February 2010 - 08:40 PM, said:

View Postrgreen4, on 23 February 2010 - 07:24 PM, said:


I know we have covered this before, but since the default XP work group name is not WORKGROUP, you would have had to have changed it on all your XP machines. Is this correct? You manually changed the work group name on all your XP machines? Humor me please and change the work group name on the Vista machine to MSHOME and see what effect it has. You will of course have to re-boot after the change.



They absolutely have the same "WORKGROUP" workgroup. I even re-ran the network connection wizard on the XP machine, as I suggested on a blog somewhere.

My son checked today on his Windows 7 machine. He can see and connect to both the XP and Vista machine, BUT THEY CAN'T CONNECT TO AND SEE EACH OTHER. (XP CAN SEE VISTA, BUT NOT CONNECT; VISTA CAN'T EVEN SEE XP.)

Weird, weird, weird. Oh well. Looks like I'll be buying Windows 7 soon.


Something is definitely weird. The network setup in Vista was far easier than that in XP. You mentioned that the Win7 machine can see and connect to the Vista machine is the reverse true? There has got to be some small setting clicked somewhere that is not working. While I like Windows 7 much better than Vista, I never had a problem setting up a network connection on three Vista machines (2 wireless, 1 wired), in fact the setup in Windows 7 is almost identical.
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#14 User is offline   shoeheel 

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 04:58 AM

View Postrgreen4, on 23 February 2010 - 10:50 PM, said:

You mentioned that the Win7 machine can see and connect to the Vista machine is the reverse true?


The Vista machine can see the Win7 machine. I'm assuming I could connect. When I click on it, I get the "Login failure" box, but my son is not sharing.

It boils down to some problem with Vista and XP networking. Like I said originally, I added the Link Layer Topology Discovery Responder to the XP machine, per a thread I found somewhere, but that did not fix it. Bummer.
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#15 User is offline   rgreen4 

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 05:21 AM

View Postshoeheel, on 24 February 2010 - 04:58 AM, said:

View Postrgreen4, on 23 February 2010 - 10:50 PM, said:

You mentioned that the Win7 machine can see and connect to the Vista machine is the reverse true?


The Vista machine can see the Win7 machine. I'm assuming I could connect. When I click on it, I get the "Login failure" box, but my son is not sharing.

It boils down to some problem with Vista and XP networking. Like I said originally, I added the Link Layer Topology Discovery Responder to the XP machine, per a thread I found somewhere, but that did not fix it. Bummer.


You might try uninstalling all the third party stuff and re-running the Vista network setup. I am not using any third party "help", just the basic Windows network setup application.
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#16 User is offline   shoeheel 

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 02:28 PM

View Postrgreen4, on 24 February 2010 - 05:21 AM, said:


You might try uninstalling all the third party stuff and re-running the Vista network setup. I am not using any third party "help", just the basic Windows network setup application.


What "third party stuff"? The Link Layer Topology Discovery Responder is from Microsoft: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/922120
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#17 User is offline   rgreen4 

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 05:31 PM

View Postshoeheel, on 24 February 2010 - 02:28 PM, said:

View Postrgreen4, on 24 February 2010 - 05:21 AM, said:

You might try uninstalling all the third party stuff and re-running the Vista network setup. I am not using any third party "help", just the basic Windows network setup application.


What "third party stuff"? The Link Layer Topology Discovery Responder is from Microsoft: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/922120


The reason I called it third part stuff, is that it was not included with Windows. It obviously didn't help, and it maybe because it is aimed more at a domain (corporate) than a work group (small business/home) network.

A couple of questions - you show two XP based computers in your listing. How many of them are at SP3 versus SP2? How many are wired versus wireless? Is the Vista machine the only wireless PC?

What is very perplexing is the way it is acting. The only time I have had any similar reaction to this is when I first installed Windows 7, set it up to talk to the router, had internet connection and access to the printers, but not the existing computers. I had not yet changed the default work group name. But we have been down that road.

Have you checked the Windows Firewall settings on the Vista laptop?
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#18 User is offline   shoeheel 

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 06:35 PM

View Postrgreen4, on 24 February 2010 - 05:31 PM, said:

A couple of questions - you show two XP based computers in your listing. How many of them are at SP3 versus SP2? How many are wired versus wireless? Is the Vista machine the only wireless PC?

XP Machine 1: XP Home SP3 Wireless
XP Machine 2: XP Pro SP3 Wired
Vista Machine: Wireless

View Postrgreen4, on 24 February 2010 - 05:31 PM, said:

Have you checked the Windows Firewall settings on the Vista laptop?

Yes. Since the firewall does not prevent the Vista machine from seeing the Win7 machine, is there a special setting for seeing XP machines?
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#19 User is offline   rgreen4 

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 08:00 PM

View Postshoeheel, on 24 February 2010 - 06:35 PM, said:

View Postrgreen4, on 24 February 2010 - 05:31 PM, said:

A couple of questions - you show two XP based computers in your listing. How many of them are at SP3 versus SP2? How many are wired versus wireless? Is the Vista machine the only wireless PC?

XP Machine 1: XP Home SP3 Wireless
XP Machine 2: XP Pro SP3 Wired
Vista Machine: Wireless

View Postrgreen4, on 24 February 2010 - 05:31 PM, said:

Have you checked the Windows Firewall settings on the Vista laptop?

Yes. Since the firewall does not prevent the Vista machine from seeing the Win7 machine, is there a special setting for seeing XP machines?


I don't think so. How long have you had the Vista laptop and what brand is it?
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#20 User is offline   shoeheel 

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 11:48 AM

FIXED!!!

Two things happened, after which it began working...

1) I went out of town with the Vista computer, logging on to various free hot spots.
2) The power went out while I was, home, resetting my modem, router, switch, etc.

So, I'm guessing it was the Link Layer Topology Discovery Responder from Microsoft, (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/922120), that fixed it. I just needed to reset my home networking hardware to get it to work.

This post has been edited by shoeheel: 14 March 2010 - 11:56 AM

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