[chrisscfan]

I'll say this much, I like what Apple is doing for the American economy. Just for that alone I like Apple. I'm not passionate one way or another about their products but I respect them for making very marketable and practically useful devices that other companies are trying desperately to emulate. IPod? IPhone? Utter genius. Both of those are staples in our society today. I guess you can even start putting the Macbook up there. All those other companies you mentioned don't have products that have revolutionalized the market and has captivated buyers all around the world(not just the US). Even the Asians are freaking buying them.

This post has been edited by chrisscfan: 09 March 2010 - 08:14 PM

[quackadilly]

asiafish, on 09 March 2010 - 07:06 PM, said:

quackadilly, on 09 March 2010 - 08:26 AM, said:

I'm talking about functionality. PERIOD. Apple is expensive and Apple fanatics will try to deny it all day long.

Apple isn't expensive, PREMIUM is expensive, and you get what you pay for.

Thank you for proving my point.

                        	Apple	Dell	Custom
			
Operating System        	OSX	W7 Pro	W7 Pro
2.66GHz Quad-Core Xeon  	X	X	X
12GB DDR3 1066MHz ECC   	X	X	X
RAID Controller         	X	X	X
4TB 7200 rpm (1TB x 4)  	X	X	X
CD/DVD Burner           	X	X	X
Video Card              	GT120	9800GT	GTX 285
			
                        	$5,550	$4,822	$2,922.00

asiafish, on 09 March 2010 - 07:06 PM, said:

quackadilly, on 09 March 2010 - 12:38 PM, said:

quackadilly, on 09 March 2010 - 08:26 AM, said:

Instant sleep and wake might be a killer app for you, but what about the rest of the world? I'm talking about a REAL killer app that THE MAJORITY of the world wants/needs that the other does not have . . . there is none. Well, maybe gaming . . .

I 'm incorrect with that statement . . .


Flash.


Jobs will have nothing to do with it and the users lose out because of that decision.

Flash works just fine on my Mac, always has.

iPod, iPhone, iPad . . .

This post has been edited by quackadilly: 10 March 2010 - 04:40 AM

[crazy4laptops]

goonielover14, on 01 June 2010 - 11:48 AM, said:

Apple can suck my butt. I only love iPods. Macs suck!!! Over priced pieces of crap!!!

overpriced... depends on the point of view

you have to think long term, you buy one mac, it'll last you atleast two or three PC computers... therefore not overpriced, but it is a tough bit to chew for first time buyers

i am an apple convert, windows is behind the times in user simplicity...

[asiafish]

Just sold my 18-month-old MacBook Air, and got just $150 less than I paid for it new.

[Grr8008]

Try this on for size people.

Hehe, seems like if Microsoft wanted to embarrass Apple, it is all on that video.

This post has been edited by Grr8008: 02 June 2010 - 10:24 AM

[nonseq]

asiafish, on 01 June 2010 - 07:11 PM, said:

Just sold my 18-month-old MacBook Air, and got just $150 less than I paid for it new.

Asiafish, I made your font larger because this is the point, the whole point and nothing but the point about the alleged "Apple Tax." I make my living establishing value of high tech equipment and you are not going to see comparable retention of fair market value on the PC side of the ledger.

[asiafish]

Nope. I even got $750 for a 5-year-old 12" PowerBook about six-months-ago. Thats half of the purchase price on a machine that was thoroughly antiquated by the time I sold it (though still quite useful). Only Apple makes that possible.

[Grr8008]

Guys aren't you arguing a moot point? No matter what everyone says, Apple products have a premium price! Whether or not that premium price is worth it is just personal opinion. When it comes down to it, you have to think, is it worth it arguing over opinion time and time again. Everyone has their own set opinions. So since those opinions are already their, what is the point of saying they are wrong? Say why you think you are right, then read what the other person says. In the end if you have a discussion on the similarities and differences of the thing you are discussing, in this case computers, then everyone gains knowledge instead of a higher blood pressure! So not only what is wrong about each thing, but also what is right about both of them. A sort of agree to disagree. You know? Even look at what you are defending and see if there are things wrong with it. If you point them out and then say what is right about the thing you are attacking, it makes things a whole lot easier.

[nonseq]

asiafish, on 02 June 2010 - 10:33 AM, said:

Nope. I even got $750 for a 5-year-old 12" PowerBook about six-months-ago. Thats half of the purchase price on a machine that was thoroughly antiquated by the time I sold it (though still quite useful). Only Apple makes that possible.

a "comparable" PC laptop from Dell or HP or Sony would be worth less than $50. (check usedprice.com)

[nonseq]

Grr8008, on 02 June 2010 - 10:52 AM, said:

Guys aren't you arguing a moot point? No matter what everyone says, Apple products have a premium price! Whether or not that premium price is worth it is just personal opinion. When it comes down to it, you have to think, is it worth it arguing over opinion time and time again. Everyone has their own set opinions. So since those opinions are already their, what is the point of saying they are wrong? Say why you think you are right, then read what the other person says. In the end if you have a discussion on the similarities and differences of the thing you are discussing, in this case computers, then everyone gains knowledge instead of a higher blood pressure! So not only what is wrong about each thing, but also what is right about both of them. A sort of agree to disagree. You know? Even look at what you are defending and see if there are things wrong with it. If you point them out and then say what is right about the thing you are attacking, it makes things a whole lot easier.

of you're right on the face of it but the Apple tax thing has always stuck in my craw because it is so blatantly false. I have sold several of my Apple's when I upgraded and proceeds for them went towards the purchase of the newer technology. In every case the cost of the Apple (including the sale of older technology) was equivalent or slightly less than a PC device.

[Grr8008]

nonseq, on 02 June 2010 - 11:03 AM, said:

Grr8008, on 02 June 2010 - 10:52 AM, said:

Guys aren't you arguing a moot point? No matter what everyone says, Apple products have a premium price! Whether or not that premium price is worth it is just personal opinion. When it comes down to it, you have to think, is it worth it arguing over opinion time and time again. Everyone has their own set opinions. So since those opinions are already their, what is the point of saying they are wrong? Say why you think you are right, then read what the other person says. In the end if you have a discussion on the similarities and differences of the thing you are discussing, in this case computers, then everyone gains knowledge instead of a higher blood pressure! So not only what is wrong about each thing, but also what is right about both of them. A sort of agree to disagree. You know? Even look at what you are defending and see if there are things wrong with it. If you point them out and then say what is right about the thing you are attacking, it makes things a whole lot easier.

of you're right on the face of it but the Apple tax thing has always stuck in my craw because it is so blatantly false. I have sold several of my Apple's when I upgraded and proceeds for them went towards the purchase of the newer technology. In every case the cost of the Apple (including the sale of older technology) was equivalent or slightly less than a PC device.

Ummm, did you miss the whole point of what I just wrote?

[nonseq]

Grr8008, on 02 June 2010 - 11:05 AM, said:

nonseq, on 02 June 2010 - 11:03 AM, said:

Grr8008, on 02 June 2010 - 10:52 AM, said:

Guys aren't you arguing a moot point? No matter what everyone says, Apple products have a premium price! Whether or not that premium price is worth it is just personal opinion. When it comes down to it, you have to think, is it worth it arguing over opinion time and time again. Everyone has their own set opinions. So since those opinions are already their, what is the point of saying they are wrong? Say why you think you are right, then read what the other person says. In the end if you have a discussion on the similarities and differences of the thing you are discussing, in this case computers, then everyone gains knowledge instead of a higher blood pressure! So not only what is wrong about each thing, but also what is right about both of them. A sort of agree to disagree. You know? Even look at what you are defending and see if there are things wrong with it. If you point them out and then say what is right about the thing you are attacking, it makes things a whole lot easier.

of you're right on the face of it but the Apple tax thing has always stuck in my craw because it is so blatantly false. I have sold several of my Apple's when I upgraded and proceeds for them went towards the purchase of the newer technology. In every case the cost of the Apple (including the sale of older technology) was equivalent or slightly less than a PC device.

Ummm, did you miss the whole point of what I just wrote?

Probably. If so, mea culpa.

[coastie65]

I think it is all a state of mind. Apple products have been traditionally priced higher than Windows PC's and resell prices as well. To my way of thinking, when you break them all down in their most basic of form, they are all nothing but steel, aluminum, copper, plastic, & silicone ( maybe a few other things as well ). It is all about the individual and their taste ( and pocketbook ). I don't dislike the product, but I prefer to spend less and still have my needs met. Being a gamer, there weren't many of those things being written for Apple/Mac ( seem to be a bit more these days and some good ones too ). Unfortunately, you will find those who don't like something so they will bash it. Personally, if I don't like something, I'll say so and leave it there. I won't tear down a product. If I have some fact based negative aspects to something that will support an argument, then fine, I will include them. That having been said, I was a Vista basher, big time and it was based on comments by others and not personal experience. I still have my XP rig that I was using to bash Vista and use it fairly regularly, but now have two machines running Vista and I do like it. My next move may be to set this one up to dual boot Vista Home Premium 64 bit / Win7 Home Premium 64 bit. The point is, I think a lot of folks who bash Apple product have probably never even tried them amd are doing so from what they have read somewhere.

[BGG001]

coastie65, on 03 June 2010 - 06:30 AM, said:

I think it is all a state of mind. Apple products have been traditionally priced higher than Windows PC's and resell prices as well. To my way of thinking, when you break them all down in their most basic of form, they are all nothing but steel, aluminum, copper, plastic, & silicone ( maybe a few other things as well ). It is all about the individual and their taste ( and pocketbook ). I don't dislike the product, but I prefer to spend less and still have my needs met. Being a gamer, there weren't many of those things being written for Apple/Mac ( seem to be a bit more these days and some good ones too ). Unfortunately, you will find those who don't like something so they will bash it. Personally, if I don't like something, I'll say so and leave it there. I won't tear down a product. If I have some fact based negative aspects to something that will support an argument, then fine, I will include them. That having been said, I was a Vista basher, big time and it was based on comments by others and not personal experience. I still have my XP rig that I was using to bash Vista and use it fairly regularly, but now have two machines running Vista and I do like it. My next move may be to set this one up to dual boot Vista Home Premium 64 bit / Win7 Home Premium 64 bit. The point is, I think a lot of folks who bash Apple product have probably never even tried them amd are doing so from what they have read somewhere.

I have all three OSes that are argued about frequently and have used them all for different things. Frankly, I can say that there is no difference between OS X and Windows 7 (gaming, that's about it). The operating systems themselves accomplish the same tasks, maybe slightly different way of getting there, but it's all perception (both crash and have their issues. Period. I don't care what any of you say). For me, I prefer Windows. I think it's cheaper, simple, and, most importantly, does the same thing in the long haul. I'll own PCs for 5 years at a time and that's long enough for me. My dell that I use alongside my current computer (custom built 2 years ago) is pushing 6 years and is still running fine.


And here's my opinion on how the entire Macs-lasting-longer-than-PCs thing goes: You buy a pack of Bic pens for about $5. Sure enough, you're going to lose them because you didn't pay much, you're going to be careless about it. Go out and buy a $20 pen. Same amount of ink, would last you just as long as the Bics if you didn't lose them. You invested far more in that single pen, so you're going to care more about it. It's simple psychology, really. I've had my share of $30-$50 watches that I wore infrequently and now do not know the location of, but once I bought a $175 watch (actually $550, got a huge discount) I wear it often and can tell you where it is (right now, on my kitchen counter on the island next to my car keys and wallet). Apply this to computers. Better ventilation, more frequent cleaning, etc. Your state of mind on value really does go a long way in how objects function for you.

[BGG001]

nonseq, on 02 June 2010 - 01:38 PM, said:

Grr8008, on 02 June 2010 - 11:05 AM, said:

nonseq, on 02 June 2010 - 11:03 AM, said:

Grr8008, on 02 June 2010 - 10:52 AM, said:

Guys aren't you arguing a moot point? No matter what everyone says, Apple products have a premium price! Whether or not that premium price is worth it is just personal opinion. When it comes down to it, you have to think, is it worth it arguing over opinion time and time again. Everyone has their own set opinions. So since those opinions are already their, what is the point of saying they are wrong? Say why you think you are right, then read what the other person says. In the end if you have a discussion on the similarities and differences of the thing you are discussing, in this case computers, then everyone gains knowledge instead of a higher blood pressure! So not only  what is wrong about each thing, but also what is right about both of them. A sort of agree to disagree. You know? Even look at what you are defending and see if there are things wrong with it. If you point them out and then say what is right about the thing you are attacking, it makes things a whole lot easier.

of you're right on the face of it but the Apple tax thing has always stuck in my craw because it is so blatantly false. I have sold several of my Apple's when I upgraded and proceeds for them went towards the purchase of the newer technology.  In every case the cost of the Apple (including the sale of older technology) was equivalent or slightly less than a PC device.

Ummm, did you miss the whole point of what I just wrote?

Probably.  If so, mea culpa.

Instead of rereading what he said and trying to comprehend what he is saying, you simply excuse yourself for not bothering. Lazy, rude, or ignorant? I'm not really sure but regardless of which it is or what combination it is, it's not constructive in the least. He's simply saying "Hey, I've got my opinions, you've got yours. Let's try and be civil" and you completely do the opposite. You may not be a troll, but you're not all that far off the mark.


And I am saying this completely off-topic thing at the risk of being scolded by mods. I don't care. Blatant disregard and disrespect for someone who is being genuinely honest and nice deserves some criticism. And no, this isn't meant to be an insult, this is meant as criticism that will unfortunately fall on deaf ears.

This post has been edited by BGG001: 08 June 2010 - 12:28 PM

[Grr8008]

BGG001, on 08 June 2010 - 12:25 PM, said:

nonseq, on 02 June 2010 - 01:38 PM, said:

Grr8008, on 02 June 2010 - 11:05 AM, said:

nonseq, on 02 June 2010 - 11:03 AM, said:

Grr8008, on 02 June 2010 - 10:52 AM, said:

Guys aren't you arguing a moot point? No matter what everyone says, Apple products have a premium price! Whether or not that premium price is worth it is just personal opinion. When it comes down to it, you have to think, is it worth it arguing over opinion time and time again. Everyone has their own set opinions. So since those opinions are already their, what is the point of saying they are wrong? Say why you think you are right, then read what the other person says. In the end if you have a discussion on the similarities and differences of the thing you are discussing, in this case computers, then everyone gains knowledge instead of a higher blood pressure! So not only  what is wrong about each thing, but also what is right about both of them. A sort of agree to disagree. You know? Even look at what you are defending and see if there are things wrong with it. If you point them out and then say what is right about the thing you are attacking, it makes things a whole lot easier.

of you're right on the face of it but the Apple tax thing has always stuck in my craw because it is so blatantly false. I have sold several of my Apple's when I upgraded and proceeds for them went towards the purchase of the newer technology.  In every case the cost of the Apple (including the sale of older technology) was equivalent or slightly less than a PC device.

Ummm, did you miss the whole point of what I just wrote?

Probably.  If so, mea culpa.

Instead of rereading what he said and trying to comprehend what he is saying, you simply excuse yourself for not bothering. Lazy, rude, or ignorant? I'm not really sure but regardless of which it is or what combination it is, it's not constructive in the least. He's simply saying "Hey, I've got my opinions, you've got yours. Let's try and be civil" and you completely do the opposite. You may not be a troll, but you're not all that far off the mark.


And I am saying this completely off-topic thing at the risk of being scolded by mods. I don't care. Blatant disregard and disrespect for someone who is being genuinely honest and nice deserves some criticism. And no, this isn't meant to be an insult, this is meant as criticism that will unfortunately fall on deaf ears.

Thanks BGG.

This post has been edited by Grr8008: 08 June 2010 - 02:12 PM

[Car54]

BGG001, on 08 June 2010 - 12:14 PM, said:

I have all three OSes that are argued about frequently and have used them all for different things. Frankly, I can say that there is no difference between OS X and Windows 7 (gaming, that's about it). The operating systems themselves accomplish the same tasks, maybe slightly different way of getting there, but it's all perception (both crash and have their issues. Period. I don't care what any of you say). For me, I prefer Windows. I think it's cheaper, simple, and, most importantly, does the same thing in the long haul. I'll own PCs for 5 years at a time and that's long enough for me. My dell that I use alongside my current computer (custom built 2 years ago) is pushing 6 years and is still running fine.


And here's my opinion on how the entire Macs-lasting-longer-than-PCs thing goes: You buy a pack of Bic pens for about $5. Sure enough, you're going to lose them because you didn't pay much, you're going to be careless about it. Go out and buy a $20 pen. Same amount of ink, would last you just as long as the Bics if you didn't lose them. You invested far more in that single pen, so you're going to care more about it. It's simple psychology, really. I've had my share of $30-$50 watches that I wore infrequently and now do not know the location of, but once I bought a $175 watch (actually $550, got a huge discount) I wear it often and can tell you where it is (right now, on my kitchen counter on the island next to my car keys and wallet). Apply this to computers. Better ventilation, more frequent cleaning, etc. Your state of mind on value really does go a long way in how objects function for you.

Nice analogy BGG, and for me I don't mind upgrading or building a new Bic Pen, PC, every now and then. I can use the spare parts like the case, PSU etc. for my new build, upgrade some of my families PCs with some new hardware, or do the eBay thing. So resale really doesn't matter to me, but that I like PCs, with all of the options, add ons, tweaks etc. that you can do with them, makes it fun As Grr says, it really just comes down to a personal preference thing.

[BGG001]

Grr8008, on 08 June 2010 - 01:49 PM, said:

Thanks BGG.

I'm sure you're perfectly capable of sticking up for yourself but I'm getting sick of blatant disrespect among frequent community members. I know I've been bullheaded in debates on here before, have even gotten passionate enough to throw out a couple of insults that I now regret, but that's simply disrespectful and I don't know, I felt that it needed to be pointed out and chastised :/. Things never change if you sit idle and all.

Now that I'm a little more level-headed I'll apologize now for any disruptions I may have caused.

[artzy65]

asiafish, on 03 March 2010 - 04:05 PM, said:

Apple is a VERY divisive topic. For some strange reason, normal, rational people who are not connected in any way to Apple Corp. or its competitors spend huge amounts of time on this other forums bashing, praising, lying, truthing, defending, attacking and otherwise constantly discussing a company that, if you count, only sells 5 basic models of laptop computers (13, 15 and 17 inch MacBook Pro, MacBook Air and plastic MacBook), 4 basic models of desktop computers (21 and 27 inch iMac, Mac Pro and Mac Mini), two operating systems (OS X and OS X Server) and about a half dozen applications (Logic, Final Cut, iWork, etc.). Look at Dell, or Lenovo, or HP, for instance. I would bet that Dell's business desktop line alone has more variations that everything Apple sells, but there is no Dell forum on PCWorld and when Dell announce a new model, maybe it will get a review, maybe not, but nobody really has much to say.

These days Apple is doing rather well. In years past, Apple was in serious danger of bankruptcy. The only constant, however poorly or well the company is doing, is that everyone either loves or hates or is neutral about Apple, but PASSIONATELY LOVES, PASSIONATELY HATES or is PASSIONATELY NEUTRAL about Apple. I doubt anyone is passionately anything about Toshiba, or Acer. There are ThinkPad fanatics (of which I count myself a member), VAIO fans (never cared for Sony) and Toughbook lovers (never really used one). Apple, more than any other company, however, seems to create passion in all who consider them.

Is it the hardware? The software? The corporation itself?

I like Apple as a company. Not because I think they walk on water or anything like that. Simply, I like them because whenever I've had trouble with Apple gear, and I have had trouble, Apple always has worked hard to make it right. I liked IBM and still like Lenovo for the exact same reason, and feel the same about Mercedes-Benz cars, Hermann Miller chairs, Bosch kitchen appliances and Brenthaven bags. Expensive products one and all, but backed by companies that care more if you will buy another of their products than about cutting warranty costs on your current product.

My last Mercedes had what should have been a very expensive repair at 103,000 miles. The car had a 100,000 mile warranty, and Mercedes covered it without me having to ask. 13,000 miles later, I bought another Mercedes regardless of the new Audi A4 being a nicer car. I felt like a valued customer, and stayed with a brand that had earned my loyalty through superior service. I can tell similar stories about computers. I had an IBM ThinkPad T20 that was repair four times for motherboard issues. The computer had a three year warranty, and when it failed at age four, IBM apologized and sent me a new ThinkPad T42p as a replacement. Lenovo hasn't replaced any of my computers yet, but thats because none of them needed replacement. They have, through overnight shipment, sent me repair parts, even when I was halfway around the world, and never with so much as the slightest hassle. Again, excellent service that has made me a loyal ThinkPad customer.

Apple is the same way. In fact, my worst ever computer experience was with the then-new plastic MacBook (original CoreDuo) of May 2006. I bought the high-end black one, and it ran so hot as to shut down at random. Apple replaced it, arranging it through a retail store so I wouldn't have to wait for shipping. The new one had the same problem, and again Apple replaced. The third had a different problem, the backlight was dead. It could have been a shipping problem, production, who knows, but again Apple replaced it, and gave me a Mac Mini for my trouble (they asked what I wanted). The fourth MacBook was perfect, but I had lost confidence, sold it, and bought another ThinkPad. Still, when Rev B came out and the teething problems were solved, I didn't hesitate to buy my daughter a new Core2Duo MacBook for school. While I didn't trust those first-generation plastic MacBooks anymore, my trust for Apple the corporation was actually increased by this experience.

I don't know what it is that makes Apple-haters hate the company so much. I don't know why Apple-fanatics are so fanatical either. I like most of their products and trust the company to stand behind them, but that is as far as it goes for me. I love my Bosch dishwasher too, it is silent and the one time I had one break, Bosch sent a technician the next morning and it was repaired right the first time. I recommend Bosch dishwashers to people who ask how I like mine, but you won't see me or anyone else calling people stupid because they paid less for a Kenmore or paid more for a Miele.

I don't even think its the fact that Apple uses a different OS. Most people, in my opinion, don't really care about an OS. A few years ago when PDAs were still news people loved the Pocket PC OS. By the time smart phones replaced PDAs Pocket PC became Windows Mobile and people still liked it. They may very well like it again in 2011 when WinMo 7 comes out, but WinMo 6 is a dead product. Where are the former Pocket PC and Windows Mobile users now? They are on iPhone, BlackBerry, Symbian, Android or one of the many proprietary phone OS platforms and care about the cool features like visual voicemail, GPS and games, but could care less whether it is Symbian, BlackBerry, WebOS or some Linux variant used to launch those cool features. I doubt most iPhone owners even care that it is an Apple product or based on OS X, rather they care that it is a decent phone that is easy to use and has lots of cool applications. Are they loyal Apple-fanatics? Not likely.

So if there is nothing all that exceptional for the Apple-fanatics to be so fanatical about, what is so bad to bring about all of the Apple hatred? Again, I just don't see it.

Looking at computers, Apple, like many companies, sells a range of products in a chosen market space. That particular market, for computers at least, is the premium price category. Does anyone criticize Mercedes-Benz or Bentley for not selling at $12,000 economy car? Of course not. Did Mercedes-Benz or Bentley ever say that everyone should drive an expensive luxury car or take the bus? Of course not. Cars are a huge market, with companies competing at the low end, the middle, the high end and the ultra-high end. Some companies compete in more than portion of the market, others limit themselves to single market. Some companies even grow or shrink over time. Volkswagen introduced a fantastic high-end ($100,000) luxury car called the Phaeton a number of years ago, with an exotic W12 engine (three banks of four cylinders). It was an amazing car, but it didn't sell, and no longer is producted. Volkswagen competes in the mid-range only. BMW tried to extend down to the upper low end with the 318ti hatchback in the 90s and Mercedes tried to edge into that market a decade later with the C230 hatchback. Both were fairly slow sellers and those brands have retreated to their traditional high-end markets only, using other brands (Mini and Smart) to reach lower. Hyundai, on the other hand, did a masterful job of moving from the low end to the mid range a decade ago, and is not starting a push into the high end.

So where does that leave Apple? Apple is at the high end, and chooses to limit itself to that market. Why should anyone be upset about that? Does anyone really care that Rolex doesn't make a $100 plastic watch? Swatch has lots of great watches that keep time just as well, but competes in a totally different market. You don't see hordes of angry Swatch enthusiasts whining about Rolex being overpriced and a poor buy, or any Rolex buyers looking down and saying that a Swatch, or Casio, or whatever will make you late for work.

Apple-haters have two arguments they repeat endlessly. First, they say that an Apple PC is the same as any other PC (same parts) only double the price. Second, they say that Apple computers are too limited so nobody should buy one. Both are stupid arguments that hold no water. Macs use a different OS, and that different OS is better at some things and worse at others. Which is better? There is no answer without knowing what you want to do with it. For a little more money, the Mac can also run Windows, both natively and virtually, making it even more flexible, though at a price.

As for the parts, what Apple-haters don't understand is that it isn't about the plastics on the motherboard or the other parts that you don't see, like the hard drive, RAM and processor. Those parts ARE IDENTICAL and if that was all a computer was made of, then their argument would be correct. Its the parts people actually can touch that make the difference, and not only for Apple, but for other high-end PCs as well. ThinkPads cost more than budget PCs partly because their cases are just made of better plastics. Latitudes cost more than Inspirons or Vostros because they have magnesium rollcages inside and are built to be easier to work on and to last longer. A premium laptop may very well be slower and perform worse than a cheaper consumer model, but it is built for durability, for comfort, for light weight, for long battery life and a number of other intangibles, including look and feel, that cost more money than is spent on the budget models. Does that mean everyone should buy premium? Of course not. But it doesn't mean that premium is overpriced, just that its more expensive. One truth in retail that goes back all through history is that a smart shopper will get what he or she pays for. You just cannot buy a car as safe, solid, comfortable and durable as a Mercedes-Benz for the price of a Hyundai. That doesn't make the Hyundai a bad car, far from it, but its no Mercedes.

You cannot buy an $800 15" laptop as nice as a MacBook Pro. Not because the $800 model isn't made by Apple, but because you have to spend more than $800 to get into the $2000 quality class. THere are plenty of very nice 15" PC laptops that are as nicer or perhaps nicer than the MacBook Pro, but they will cost about the same, maybe more, maybe less, but NONE will be in the $800 class.

I love the response people have to Apple. Every time Apple announces a product, people either think it will save the world, or will doom the company to bankruptcy. Both groups are quite hilarious, actually.

Canadian writer Robert Fulford's take on Apple devotees (re the '90s Apple near-death experience):
http://www.robertful...com/Apple2.html

[artzy65]

coastie65, on 03 June 2010 - 06:30 AM, said:

I think it is all a state of mind. Apple products have been traditionally priced higher than Windows PC's and resell prices as well. To my way of thinking, when you break them all down in their most basic of form, they are all nothing but steel, aluminum, copper, plastic, & silicone ( maybe a few other things as well ). It is all about the individual and their taste ( and pocketbook ). I don't dislike the product, but I prefer to spend less and still have my needs met. Being a gamer, there weren't many of those things being written for Apple/Mac ( seem to be a bit more these days and some good ones too ). Unfortunately, you will find those who don't like something so they will bash it. Personally, if I don't like something, I'll say so and leave it there. I won't tear down a product. If I have some fact based negative aspects to something that will support an argument, then fine, I will include them. That having been said, I was a Vista basher, big time and it was based on comments by others and not personal experience. I still have my XP rig that I was using to bash Vista and use it fairly regularly, but now have two machines running Vista and I do like it. My next move may be to set this one up to dual boot Vista Home Premium 64 bit / Win7 Home Premium 64 bit. The point is, I think a lot of folks who bash Apple product have probably never even tried them amd are doing so from what they have read somewhere.

I prefer to spend less too, and still get Macs. It's called secondhand... all of my macs (12 since 1996) are secondhand. I get to relish my computing life at bargain prices.