[PCWorld]

Post your comments for Opera files EU antitrust suit against Microsoft here

[Jdpraise]

It was incredibly difficult for me to go to the Opera website and download the Opera browser, much less manage to click on the icon to start the install. That's rubbish.

Regarding staying within "acceptable standards" who will define the limits of said standards? What arbiter of acceptable get the choice?
In addition regarding industry standards regarding browsers wouldn't IE (being the lions share of the market) define what the standard is?
Isn't it shortsighted to say don't do anything different or innovative (I'm still waiting for that) because I can't do it to and we have to play on the same playground.? Lets tell all our kids that flowers are only red.. ever.

When is it considered monopolistic and bad business to bundle products together to compete? Cell phone companies do it, Cable companies gosh even the neighborhood fast food packages thier best sellers together. By the same token why punish a company for competing successfully.


Regarda
J.

[imnuts]

I'm guessing they're filing the same lawsuit against Apple for bundling Safari web browser in with Mac OS X hindering competition as well...

[CMiner]

I'm reading this article using Firefox. Its not that hard to get another browser onto Microsoft.
So what if Microsoft bundles IE with windows? The way this and other lawsuits are going (For example, the one suing MS for bundling Media Player with windows) make it seem as though Microsoft shouldn't be allowed to have -any- software bundled along with their operating system, and that's just ridiculous. Windows does not prevent the use of other browsers or media players (I use Winamp). Its really not that hard, and I've never found Windows to be set up to actively discourage use of these other programs.
And secondly, industry standards are not legally binding. There is no legal obligation for Microsoft to support its competitors. It can't block them out, but does not have to, and should not have to, actively support them.

[recursive]

It's not incredibly difficult to download for most people, only slightly inconvenient. But if you're behind a firewall at work or have a limited privilege account, it might not be possible at all.
As for standards, you are completely wrong. There is an organization, specifically the W3C, that sets the specification for HTML. MSIE has the worst compliance of any major browser. By far.

[Somnulus]

I think it is fascinating that our own courts and those of the EU seem to ignore the basic fact that NO ONE is forcing the end user of Windows to use Internet Explorer (or Media Player, for that matter).
While I agree that Microsoft should be forced to support a common browser standard (I mean, how long has it taken them to implement true PNG transparency handling, for crying out loud!) I disagree with any decision that makes awards ignoring the fact that the end user either prefers IE/Media Player or is just too lazy to install and use third party software.
I use FireFox. In my opinion, it is superior in every way to IE. I installed it myself and it is my primary browser. Gosh golly, you know, it just wasn't that difficult.
Maybe the EU needs to institute an educational program explaining to their population how to install third party applications?
Naw; I guess it's just easier to sue Microsoft rather than admit your product doesn't really do much more than a bundled app.

[dwtj01]

I personally like the fact that Microsoft offers IE with Windows. It's fast, and comes free with the OS. And nothing against Opera, but maybe if they focused more on making their browser so good that I just HAD TO download it instead of suing Microsoft for a product it's bundled with its OS since 98, they'd get more business. Firefox is alot more popluar than Opera and has been around less time, so I think Opera has bigger problems than Microsoft.

[lukelea]

Way to go, Opera! OTH, I am looking forward to saying good-bye to Microsoft forever when my new Asus Eee laptop (2 lbs, $400 from Amazon) arrives for Xmas. My only worry now is that Opera works with whatever version of linux Asus uses. Presumably Opera is aware of this issue? Ditto for Google Mail.

[CMiner]

I realize there is an international standard, but the W3C does not have legal authority to enforce its standards.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for standards. I hate going to a site in Firefox and finding only partial functionality, because it was coded specifically for IE, and IE doesn't stick to standards. But that's a problem outside judicial boundaries.

As far as firewalls/limited privileges go, that's a problem to take up with whoever has control of that computer. Not the fault of Microsoft. Besides, if this lawsuit succeeded, you'd have to install IE from a cd (Purchased separately, of course, with its own licensing fees/restrictions) which limited privilege accounts can't always do.


The Windows operating system does not prevent the downloading or use of competing internet browsers. That is the extent of Microsoft's responsibility, for what this lawsuit describes.

[NunyaBinnez]

Anyone consider how difficult it'd be to download Opera or Firefox from the web if IE WASN'T bundled with windows?

[GuildenNL]

Awwww, poor little Opera. They can't create a decent browser that works with Java so they play this garbage. I am writing this in Firefox under Vista on my work laptop. I have all personal clients running Ubuntu including three laptops, all run Firefox and NOT Opera for a good reason.
So are the Norwegian whine artists going to sue Apple too?

[Mortikus]

Look beyond. It is not correct to say this is flaw because so many other instances exist. Perhaps it is a good battle for many other situations as a beginning of a precedent.

It's been a long time since a famous leader of the US fought trusts and monopolies. We have let many major corporations snuff out smaller business only fueling the ever greed of lower prices thus sending American dollars to other countries.

As for the good business, quite the contrary... successful and rutheless certainly, but good 'ethically' absolutely not.

Mortikus -=xXx=-.

[noise]

First off, Apple doesn't have 75% of the market share, so who cares about them at the moment. Anyway, Safari meets standards pretty well. But, yeah...
Second, MS seems to do exactly what Opera says. Their compliance SUCKS, and if you're not a developer, you just may not get how much this impacts the industry. I waste way too much time, because MS plays this game. i highly doubt it's because they're too incompetent to implement the standards. Because of IE, I have to use hacks and kludges to get the site to look decent in their browser. I pretty much code it once in Firefox and Safari, and it looks great in everything except IE. I absolutely hate Internet Explorer for wasting my time as a developer. H A T E it. I can't stress this enough. Seriously, I could go on bitching for days.
Third, just because it's easier for someone who knows a bit about computers does not mean the majority are going to know they should download another option.
Thank you, Opera, for this.

[Somnulus]

In all honesty, the last time I tried to develop a multi-browser web application, Opera was the absolute worst of the bunch; Firefox was the ideal platform for implementation, followed by IE only because of its prevalence.

Although Opera handled ActiveX content in a manner similar to Microsoft's implementation to avoid patent infringement, it didn't handle it in exactly the same way. So either my Flash content didn't work at all or it was borked up, when it worked perfectly in both FireFox and IE.

That is pretty annoying when the main reason that you are developing a site in Flash is because of its multi-browser compatibility.

As another poster mentioned, Opera doesn't play well with Javascript either in many cases, which only added to what was already a negative experience. Some of the simplest scripts that I had been using for years failed to function properly in Opera.

So yes; in my opinion, Opera should focus on actually creating a superior browser.

[icecat]

Opera has been way and above IE and FF in innovation and functionality. Many of the problems encountered when using Opera is directly related to Microsoft deliberate fuging It's operating system's source code to disadvantage other browsers.

[angrygodz]

Are the people who run the EU really stupid, or just greedy? Let's get a few things straight: first of all, Microsoft is NOT a monopoly; monopoly indicates 100% market share, and though it does have the lion's share of the market, it doesn't own the whole thing. Second, after years of programming and spending millions of dollars, in order to remove the intergration of IE or WMP, it will require more millions of $ and time, and would actually make it a new product. Third, and most important, there are so many free alternatives to the IE browser and WMP (Fireforx, Opera, Winamp, etc.) that to imply that designers will only make pages/programs/media files to work with these programs is ludicrous. Quit being pansies, you EU cry babies; download your alternatives (that's what I did) and use them. Or use Linux. Or MacOS. Just quit your complaining; you wouldn't even have access to modern computers without the influence of Microsoft!

[wessman]

Another example of business wasting taxes and court time in order to justify their poor business model, poor innovation, and poor marketing. If they want to compete against MS, they should create an O/S or Office Suite like Google is/has.

[macosxp]

I don't think there is anything wrong to pre-install Internet Explorer, but Microsoft is doing something wrong. It is making it impossible to remove IE, and, it ties IE into parts of the system, making a big security risk (like in those HP laptops).
What Apple does, on the other hand, is it includes a browser, but it is so easy to delete it (just throw it in the Trash if you want), and since it isn't tied into other internet-related parts of the system, any Safari security vulnerability isn't an OS vulnerability.
I don't think there is anything wrong with pre-installing it, though, you need SOMETHING to get online with, so MS made the choice of their own browser. The suit needs to re-focus on allowing the un-installation.
There is also no big problem with sites made for IE; it only has about 80% of the market, not a big enough number for people to ignore standards.

[shekargowda]

Opera wants to make some quick money so they are going after microsoft. Firefox is not bundled with windows, still 70% of internet users are using firefox. If the product is good and free everyone will adapt. So microsoft will win. If Opera really wants to capture market share, they have to improve there product.
These are my thoughts.
www.shekargowda.com

[macosxp]

I don't think 70 percent of people use Firefox (I do, though). According to Net Applications, about 60% of people polled (meaning they care at all) said they like Firefox the best, but still only about 16 percent of people actually use it. (I guess that's because they don't know any better, usually.) I did try Opera, too, but I didn't like its interface nearly as much as the Firefox one. (Seemed a little complex.) If Opera wants a bigger user base, I agree suing doesn't work as well as making a good product, but I still hope they win. Oh, and it's not just making a good product, either, it's marketing. Netscape has hardly any users, yet it is similar to Firefox, you know?